Road tax implication of changing a 1.4 engine to a newer larger 1.6 one.

the culture of deference · 29-09-2012 2:17pm #1

I may need to change the engine on my car, what is the Road tax implication of changing a 1.4 engine to a newer larger 1.6 one. The car is 2007 but the new engine is a Band A engine.

Henry Ford III · 29-09-2012 2:24pm

What do you suspect it might be?

January · 29-09-2012 2:25pm

Your road tax would be higher...

Zascar · 29-09-2012 2:31pm

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=irish+road+tax+prices

650Ginge · 29-09-2012 2:40pm

the culture of deference wrote: »

I may need to change the engine on my car, what is the Road tax implication of changing a 1.4 engine to a newer larger 1.6 one.

You are obviously on the Internet so dont be so feckin lazy and look it up.

the culture of deference · 29-09-2012 3:21pm

Any answers?

ABajaninCork · 29-09-2012 3:23pm

What year is the car?

corktina · 29-09-2012 3:34pm

petrol or diesel?

Guy:Incognito · 29-09-2012 3:36pm

corktina wrote: »

petrol or diesel?

Doesn't matter. The car us 07 so the motor tax is going to be on cc.

Maybe if the op Google's motor tax he will come across a very handy site that gives the rates.
Searching road tax will likely result in sites from a foreign country like the UK that has road tax.

Skuxx · 29-09-2012 3:37pm

Your obviously not building a skangermobile.....1.6 but only 1.4 on the book, woop woop puuure daycent sham!

the culture of deference · 29-09-2012 4:03pm

alan1990 wrote: »

Your obviously not building a skangermobile.....1.6 but only 1.4 on the book, woop woop puuure daycent sham!

I am switching a knackered 1.4hdi for the band A 1.6 hdi .

the culture of deference · 29-09-2012 4:35pm

The motortax site does not have specific information on my query.

https://www.motortax.ie/OMT/pdf/RF111_en.pdf

Section 4 applies but it is not clear.

Guy:Incognito · 29-09-2012 4:46pm

the culture of deference wrote: »

The motortax site does not have specific information on my query.

https://www.motortax.ie/OMT/pdf/RF111_en.pdf

Section 4 applies but it is not clear.

What query? Your changing to a 1.6 engine, so your motor tax will now be based on a 1.6. Theres not much more to it than that.

Tallon · 29-09-2012 4:49pm

Don't mind these jokers, if you change our engine to a bigger one, your tax becomes free I think

Guy:Incognito · 29-09-2012 4:52pm

Tallon wrote: »

Don't mind these jokers, if you change our engine to a bigger one, your tax becomes free I think

Only if you go over 3litre. They love those. It drops 5% for every 100cc up to that.If you put a 4.4 V8 in to a supermini they pay you an annual fee I heard.

TestTransmission · 29-09-2012 5:05pm

Can we cut out the smart ass answers please

bazz26 · 29-09-2012 6:09pm

The car is 2007 reg so no matter what engine goes into it, it will still be on the cc based system. Changing to a different size engine than what is on the existing car's VRC has implications so you will need to ring your local motor tax office for information on what paper work you need to complete. They will then issue a new VRC with the new engine no. and capacity for which the current tax rate applies.

So to sumerise if you put a 1.6 engine into a 2007 car that had a 1.4 engine the car will be taxed based on the capacity of the new engine.

the culture of deference · 29-09-2012 6:56pm

bazz26 wrote: »

The car is 2007 reg so no matter what engine goes into it, it will still be on the cc based system. Changing to a different size engine than what is on the existing car's VRC has implications so you will need to ring your local motor tax office for information on what paper work you need to complete. They will then issue a new VRC with the new engine no. and capacity for which the current tax rate applies.

So to sumerise if you put a 1.6 engine into a 2007 car that had a 1.4 engine the car will be taxed based on the capacity of the new engine.

Thanks but where is that information. I cannot find it. The new engine qualifies for low emissions. If you read the link I posted I have to get the car engine change certified by a garage including emissions.

A hypothetical question.
What if you had a 2010 F10 520d, what basis would they charge you if you put an 07 530d engine in.

colm_mcm · 29-09-2012 6:58pm

Is it even feasible to put a 1.6 hdi into a 1.4? I can't imagine it's a direct fit

Guy:Incognito · 29-09-2012 6:59pm

the culture of deference wrote: »

Thanks but where is that information. I cannot find it. The new engine qualifies for low emissions. If you read the link I posted I have to get the car engine change certified by a garage including emissions.

A hypothetical question.
What if you had a 2010 F10 520d, what basis would they charge you if you put an 07 530d engine in.

The car is registered when its registered. It's always going to be an 07 car regardless of what engine you put in it.

Would you expect a brand new engine in an 85 Capri to get the car a 2012 plate?

Guy:Incognito · 29-09-2012 7:04pm

colm_mcm wrote: »

Is it even feasible to put a 1.6 hdi into a 1.4? I can't imagine it's a direct fit

IIRc up until relatively recently PSA engines were all on the same mounts. So if the car was sold with 2 or 3 different engines, any of them could be just dropped in.

CJhaughey · 29-09-2012 7:05pm

the culture of deference wrote: »

Thanks but where is that information. I cannot find it. The new engine qualifies for low emissions. If you read the link I posted I have to get the car engine change certified by a garage including emissions.

A hypothetical question.
What if you had a 2010 F10 520d, what basis would they charge you if you put an 07 530d engine in.

Tax doesn't go by engine, it goes on the vehicle.
You can fit a 1.6hdi into your car but it will always be taxed at the cc rate that the previous engine was taxed at, not the emissions rate that a 08 1.6hdi would be taxed as.

Guy:Incognito · 29-09-2012 7:07pm

CJhaughey wrote: »

Tax doesn't go by engine, it goes on the vehicle.
You can fit a 1.6hdi into your car but it will always be taxed at the cc rate that the previous engine was taxed at, not the emissions rate that a 08 1.6hdi would be taxed as.

Presumably you mean it will be taxed on the CC system but at 1.6 rate. It wont be taxed as a 1.4.

CJhaughey · 29-09-2012 7:11pm

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Presumably you mean it will be taxed on the CC system but at 1.6 rate. It wont be taxed as a 1.4.

Thats what I meant.
OP if you fit a 2010 520d with a 2007 530d engine you would still be paying the 2010 motortax, however your insurance implications would be huge.
I am not sure any insurer would touch that kind of modification and if they did they would likely charge a hefty premium.

Guy:Incognito · 29-09-2012 7:13pm

CJhaughey wrote: »

Thats what I meant.

Fair enough . It reads a bit like you said he'll still be taxed the price of a 1.4

colm_mcm · 29-09-2012 7:19pm

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

IIRc up until relatively recently PSA engines were all on the same mounts. So if the car was sold with 2 or 3 different engines, any of them could be just dropped in.

I'd be more concerned over ecu, gearbox, sensors, turbo etc.

the culture of deference · 29-09-2012 8:39pm

colm_mcm wrote: »

I'd be more concerned over ecu, gearbox, sensors, turbo etc.

Yea, I have to change the engine so I could have those issues anyway. The 1.4 hdi C3 diesels can have different gearboxes from 02 to 05 and 05 to 07.

the culture of deference · 29-09-2012 8:40pm

colm_mcm wrote: »

Is it even feasible to put a 1.6 hdi into a 1.4? I can't imagine it's a direct fit

Yea they sold them in the UK. Same mounts.

dgt · 29-09-2012 8:44pm

What's wrong with the engine that it may need to be changed?

Supergurrier · 29-09-2012 8:58pm

dgt wrote: »

What's wrong with the engine that it may need to be changed?

Lightbulb went :pac:

dgt · 29-09-2012 9:01pm

Just realised, Peugeot engines too :pac::pac::pac:

ValerieR · 30-09-2012 7:53am

https://www.motortax.ie/OMT/staticContent.do?page=faq

see FAQ #11

If you have made a change to your vehicle such as engine, colour, body type, tax class, unladen weight for goods vehicle, or seating capacity, you will need to complete Form RF111 and forward to your local motor tax office. This form is available at your local motor tax office or can be got on our homepage under the link 'Motor Tax Forms'.

It'll be taxed as a private car standard pre-2008 rate for a 1.6l : https://www.motortax.ie/OMT/motortaxinfotype.do

Not much more to it.

Needles73 · 30-09-2012 9:39am

This is a pointless discussion. As already stated the car is 2007 reg so no matter what engine goes in it will be taxed on its cc's. Car engines didnt just become more enironemntally friendly at the ebgininng of 2008....if you cannot accept this go and buy a newer car to avail of lower road tax.....

the culture of deference · 30-09-2012 1:04pm

ValerieR wrote: »

https://www.motortax.ie/OMT/staticContent.do?page=faq

see FAQ #11

It'll be taxed as a private car standard pre-2008 rate for a 1.6l : https://www.motortax.ie/OMT/motortaxinfotype.do

Not much more to it.

I sent an email to the tax office. Still waiting on a reply.

There is no specific information that says the 09 emissions cannot be used. I could buy a newer crashed 08 car and put an 07 1.4 engine into it with no penalty so why not the other way around.

Kenny Logins · 30-09-2012 1:09pm

the culture of deference wrote: »

I sent an email to the tax office. Still waiting on a reply.

There is no specific information that says the 09 emissions cannot be used. I could buy a newer crashed 08 car and put an 07 1.4 engine into it with no penalty so why not the other way around.

Cars registered before 2008 are taxed based on cc.

Cars registered during and after 2008 are taxed based on emissions.

Your car was registered in 2007 and will be taxed based on the engine cc.

It really is that simple.

the culture of deference · 30-09-2012 1:12pm

Kenny Logins wrote: »

Cars registered before 2008 are taxed based on cc.

Cars registered during and after 2008 are taxed based on emissions..

Not so, it is your choice to pick the cheaper

Kenny Logins · 30-09-2012 1:25pm

the culture of deference wrote: »

Kenny Logins wrote: »

Cars registered before 2008 are taxed based on cc.

Cars registered during and after 2008 are taxed based on emissions..

Not so, it is your choice to pick the cheaper

That was only for new cars registered between January and June 2008.

colm_mcm · 30-09-2012 1:26pm

If you can't get your head around the very simple motor tax system, are you sure you should be messing with changing engines?

It goes on first year of car registration - simple as that.

dgt · 30-09-2012 1:46pm

colm_mcm wrote: »

If you can't get your head around the very simple motor tax system, are you sure you should be messing with changing engines?

It goes on first year of car registration - simple as that.

Maybe it's a thinly veiled "I want to take my engine out" thread :pac::pac::pac:

Guy:Incognito · 30-09-2012 2:17pm

the culture of deference wrote: »

. I could buy a newer crashed 08 car and put an 07 1.4 engine into it with no penalty so why not the other way around.

Thats the same as what your talking about. You'd have no penalty for using an engine from an 07 in an 08 car and no gain from using an engine from an 08 in an 07.

If one was different and you did gain or lose then you might have a case, but they dont.

The car is registered, not the engine.

Bebo stunnah · 30-09-2012 5:17pm

the culture of deference wrote: »

Not so, it is your choice to pick the cheaper

If your car was registered before January 1st 2008 (ie, your car) your motor tax will be judged by the engine cc. Cars registered between January 1st and June 30th 2008 were either charged on emissions or cc, depending which was cheaper. Cars registered after this date were taxed on emissions only. Your car was registered in 2007, which is before 2008.

But you're obviously waiting for somebody to tell you that you can just use Tax band A because it's cheaper that way, you go ahead and have the argument with your local tax office, because everyone here has already explained that to you several times...

Tommyboy40 · 02-10-2012 7:30am

CJhaughey wrote: »

Thats what I meant.
OP if you fit a 2010 520d with a 2007 530d engine you would still be paying the 2010 motortax, however your insurance implications would be huge.
I am not sure any insurer would touch that kind of modification and if they did they would likely charge a hefty premium.

Your car will be considered heavily modified by your insurer and you will need KY when you ask for a quote

mullingar · 02-10-2012 9:09am

Is it really worth the money and hassle in fitting a 2007 1.6hdi into a 1.4hdi Peugeot 206/Citroen c3?

There is serious time & money involved as it is NOT a direct replacement. The mountings *may* be fine, but the gearbox/ecu/exhaust/air/electrics/turbo etc etc will be different.

Just find a 1.4 and do a straight swap or buy a 1.6Hdi car.

Theanswers · 02-10-2012 9:50am

I've an idea. Buy a crashed 2008-2009ish BMW 5 whatever. Make sure the chassic is good as that is what the car technically is, everything else is just bolted on.

Now go and buy an old 2003ish 5 series and switch the bodies.

Now you have cheap tax as the car is post 2008.

Larbre34 · 02-10-2012 10:29am

And the moral of all of the above? Dont buy a Citroen......

Guy:Incognito · 02-10-2012 11:15am

Larbre34 wrote: »

And the moral of all of the above? Dont buy a Citroen......

Surely it's the PSA engine thats the issue so you cant buy a car with one of those.......

Henry Ford III · 02-10-2012 11:42am

Theanswers wrote: »

I've an idea. Buy a crashed 2008-2009ish BMW 5 whatever. Make sure the chassic is good as that is what the car technically is, everything else is just bolted on.

Now go and buy an old 2003ish 5 series and switch the bodies.

Now you have cheap tax as the car is post 2008.

Cars have an integral chassis (unibody, monocoque), unlike some jeeps which have separate body and chassis.

So that idea simply won't work.

Theanswers · 02-10-2012 12:19pm

Henry Ford III wrote: »

Cars have an integral chassis (unibody, monocoque), unlike some jeeps which have separate body and chassis.

So that idea simply won't work.

I was thinking of the old Land rovers and Range Rovers. Sorry

Henry Ford III · 02-10-2012 12:27pm

Theanswers wrote: »

I was thinking of the old Land rovers and Range Rovers. Sorry

No need for sorry.

Guy:Incognito · 02-10-2012 12:54pm

Even if that did work, would it work out much cheaper buyign a crashed 08 (but not crashed bad enough that cant be properly fixed for a decent price) and an 03 as a donor than just buying a straight 08 in the first place?

Gumbo · 02-10-2012 1:45pm

the culture of deference wrote: »

I sent an email to the tax office. Still waiting on a reply.

Hers your answer OP.

Your existing motor tax is €358 (1301-1400cc)
Your new tax rate will be €478 (assuming 1501-1600cc)

You are going up in engine size so a mechanics report is not needed, but a change of particulars form is required.

Yours Sincerly,
kceire
(LA Employee)

Road tax implication of changing a 1.4 engine to a newer larger 1.6 one.

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