Pump wont stop running (Stuart Turner Monsoon negative 2.0)

Tomtata

Hi,

I have a Stuart Turner Monsoon negative 2.0 pump in my apartment.
It is behaving very strangely the last couple of days,

1st it was losing pressure for a couple of seconds and them back to full - This happened about 10 time over the course of 20min
Left it for a few hours and now the pump just wont stop - It runs non stop even though there is no taps / heating / shower on etc...
I have it switch off at the moment as it was clearly overheating.

Anyone see this before, the water pressure is grand & the pump does maintain pressure when using the taps etc... it just doesn't switch off.

Would you know what could be causing it and how I would go about repairing.

Thanks, Tom

Joey the lips

Have you a washer dryer combined?

Look at your toilets and see are the leaking into the pan. Do you know what i mean by this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_rOA06GCJeo

Tomtata

Yep, make sense

I have a washer / dryer combined. (Sitting right next to it as I type)
No leaks, check both toilets and all looks ok

I read some where the Air capsule onto of the pump might be causing it

Here is the pump im using

Joey the lips

Modern plant the agents for stuart turner certain models tell me that washer dryers have a feature where they drain a slight amount of water from the system all the time. This causes the pump to kick in. I will see if i can find an article.

Yip its written there but i cant attach a link. The pump must not be connected to the same water supply line as a washer dryer.

A simple way to test this is pull the washer dryer out and turn off its water taps at the back and see if the pump is kicking in after a day.

Tomtata

The pump has been working fine for 3+ years with the Washer / Dryer plumbed in.

Joey the lips

Tomtata wrote: »

The pump has been working fine for 3+ years with the Washer / Dryer plumbed in.

Oh. I dont understand. We are working on a process of elimination at the moment.

Your pump is incorrectly installed when its connected to the washer dryer.

I could tell you its a capacitor or it prob needs re charging but before you start paying out money i want to check the other possibilities first.

If you dont think the washer dryer is worth a short the google "recharging a stuart turner negative head pump" if this fails then look at the capacitors or the circuit board.

Tomtata

I should of said - I switched off the water inlets to the washer dryer but didn't have any effect. I appreciate the help

K.Flyer

A number of things can cause your pump to stay running.
What is important right now is to not allow it to stay running, plug it out or remove the fuse.
If the pump is running with no water passing through it for a long period of time you will do damage to the seals which becomes a more serious problem.

Check you have no leaks by shutting off the valves on the outlet side of the pumps (the outlets are where the pipes are connected to the higher sections of the pump heads).
If the pump is still running it is more than likely the relay on the pcb is gone and the pcb needs replacing, or the low pressure switch may be faulty and would have to be replaced.
A faulty capacitor would prevent it from starting.
And lack of air in the vessel would not cause it to keep running either.
The non return valves can cause similar problems but they are usually associated to very regular on / off patterns.
My money is on the pcb from what you describe.

Tomtata

Thanks for that - I think you are correct, I followed this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AzVrMz0tzZA and tested the unit by bridging each sensor which had no effect.

The pump does have a dry run cut off sensor but this also doesn't seem to be working, I disabled the hot and cold inlets.
Must be the pcb - here's hoping - I will replace myself and if it doesn't work call in the pros.

greg_james

check the pressure switch unlike the positive head it does not work off flow switches but pressure switches

greg_james

Remove the small arrow clips at the outlets and the pump should stop if it does its probably that the small magnet inside the outlat has become jammed. If not check the pcb

LIFFY FISHING

Check you have .9 bar pressure in the air vessell, you can test this with a tyre gauge, and if its down in pressure you can pump it with a bicycle pump, if that isnt your problem it is the flow switches, this type of pump operates on flow and pressure switches.

Tomtata

I removed the arrow clips and pump is still running full blast.
Will check the Air Pressure tomorrow when I get a tyre gauge.

I suspect its the PCB after doing all the sensor tests. Anyone know were in Dublin I can get one? I emailed Stuart Turner in the UK so should hear something back tomorrow.

pm1977x

Tomtata wrote: »

I removed the arrow clips and pump is still running full blast.
Will check the Air Pressure tomorrow when I get a tyre gauge.

I suspect its the PCB after doing all the sensor tests. Anyone know were in Dublin I can get one? I emailed Stuart Turner in the UK so should hear something back tomorrow.

these guys fixed our Stuart Turner pump (capicator) but carry spares too

http://www.theshowerdoctors.ie/spares

K.Flyer

Tomtata wrote: »

I removed the arrow clips and pump is still running full blast.
Will check the Air Pressure tomorrow when I get a tyre gauge.

I suspect its the PCB after doing all the sensor tests. Anyone know were in Dublin I can get one? I emailed Stuart Turner in the UK so should hear something back tomorrow.

Tomtata,
You can get a new pcb for your pump from the main dealers Modern Plant who are located on the Naas Rd, Dublin 12, ph. 01-4591344 (on the left between the Long Mile Rd junction and The Red Cow Inn). Some plumbing supply shops carry them as well but tend to be dearer.
If you are changing the pcb then while you are at it fit a new capacitor, its due to go soon enough.
I reckoned it being the pcb alright.

LIFFY FISHING

Try the air pressure before you replace any parts, it costs nothing, you cant return spare parts if they are opened, and its unlikley to be the pcb, if it was your pump would be dead, your issue is the pump wont cut out, thats flow related, like I said thats flow switches or pressure switch if its not the air issue in the vessell, btw if it wont hold pressure it can be replaced.

Joey the lips

Just be aware that modern plant are stubborn to supply parts when its not there pump you bought. Stuart turner make loads of pumps and modern plant only buy a couple of models.

Tomtata

Thanks for all the help - I got the pressure gauge today and it was quite low so pumped it up using a standard bike pump but still no joy.
Still running full blast - get a response from Stuart Tuner in the UK with the steps to test the sensors so I’m fairly confident now it’s the PCB.

Will order tomorrow and hopefully get this sorted

Tomtata

I bite the bullet and removed the PCB - the module that looks to regulate the voltage (large black box) on the PCB is blown - Melted down both sides.

When I put it all together again (The exact same way I took it apart) there is no power to the pump.

Tomtata

Good news, Got the new PCB from Modern Plant today fitted it this evening and its working perfect, Thanks again for the help.

K.Flyer

Tomtata wrote: »

Good news, Got the new PCB from Modern Plant today fitted it this evening and its working perfect, Thanks again for the help.

Your Welcome!:)

pm1977x

how much was the PCB do you mind me asking?

LIFFY FISHING

about 40 euro plus vat

Tomtata

PCB was €53 inc VAT - fitted it in 5 mins

nicolac

pm1977x wrote: »

these guys fixed our Stuart Turner pump (capicator) but carry spares too

http://www.theshowerdoctors.ie/spares

Hi,

I have the same problem with my Stuart Turner pump. Do you remember how much they charged to replace the capactior? Interesting that they did that, a lot of plumbers seem to go straight to replacing the pump from what I hear.

K.Flyer

nicolac wrote: »

Hi,

I have the same problem with my Stuart Turner...
... a lot of plumbers seem to go straight to replacing the pump from what I hear.

A lot of plumbers have no idea how to troubleshoot pumps, especially negative heads.
Out of 100 pump callouts we would only have to replace approx 6 -7 pumps, so everyone should be very cautious about the often too quick "you need a new pump" diagnosis.

spireland32

K.Flyer wrote: »

A lot of plumbers have no idea how to troubleshoot pumps, especially negative heads.
Out of 100 pump callouts we would only have to replace approx 6 -7 pumps, so everyone should be very cautious about the often too quick "you need a new pump" diagnosis.

Agree with you. A lot of plumbers (and other trades) dont know when to say its not my area of expertise or im not familiar with x y or z. However I can recommend someone who will have a look at it for you.

nicolac

K.Flyer wrote: »

A lot of plumbers have no idea how to troubleshoot pumps, especially negative heads.
Out of 100 pump callouts we would only have to replace approx 6 -7 pumps, so everyone should be very cautious about the often too quick "you need a new pump" diagnosis.

I completely agree. Unfortunately it casts a bad light on the profession when customers are told by so many of them that its straight to the e600 cost for a new pump instead of just changing the capacitor and it sends most people to troubleshoot themselves. Especially when the troubleshooting information is readily available on the internet.

Ok, I formally request your contact details so I can have them on file if it ever goes completely belly up! The capacitor is being looked after at the moment.

pavelpro

Maybe someone can help me with my problem.
Have a 2 bar Stuart Turner negative pump which was working on-off while no taps running, i disassemble it and clean filters as well checked both Non return Valves, one looks little bit faulty with rubber perished which i slightly cleaned.
On my view valves need to be replaced.
Anyway, after assemble everything back the old problem disappear and on-off pattern while nothing running gone but the same patter appear when its under pressure, so while opening tap its not running constantly but on-off.
Do you think it could be the same fault with valves or it might be smth else?

K.Flyer

On - Off running while a tap is fully open can be one of a couple of things.
Usually it is either the float in the outlet chamber (above the non-return valves)is stuck in the down position or the pick-up that is strapped to the outside of the tube needs replacing.
Check and see if the problem is only on the hot or the cold taps or both.

pavelpro

K.Flyer wrote: »

On - Off running while a tap is fully open can be one of a couple of things.
Usually it is either the float in the outlet chamber (above the non-return valves)is stuck in the down position or the pick-up that is strapped to the outside of the tube needs replacing.
Check and see if the problem is only on the hot or the cold taps or both.

I just test this theory by putting magnet to the sensor and its running ok so most likely they stuck, will be checking this tomorrow morning.
Thanx for Reply!

gezgblack70

I have a similar problem and was wondering if anyone here has any suggestions. The pump keeps working although all taps are off, no running water anywhere in the apartment. However when the pump is running and i turn on the hot water tap, hot water comes out for about 2 seconds and turn to cold again (although i haven't turned the heating on for the water to get hot). When I shut the pump off for about 7 hours and turn it back on, it fine( the pump isnt running unless there water running in the apartment) but this only lasts for about an hour. After an hour the pump kicks back on and starts going hard although all taps are closed.

K.Flyer

gezgblack70 wrote: »

I have a similar problem and was wondering if anyone here has any suggestions. The pump keeps working although all taps are off, no running water anywhere in the apartment. However when the pump is running and i turn on the hot water tap, hot water comes out for about 2 seconds and turn to cold again (although i haven't turned the heating on for the water to get hot). When I shut the pump off for about 7 hours and turn it back on, it fine( the pump isnt running unless there water running in the apartment) but this only lasts for about an hour. After an hour the pump kicks back on and starts going hard although all taps are closed.

First off, don't ever leave a pump constantly running if there no water being used, this can cause the pump heads to overheat which can damage the seals and cause leaks.
The constant running heats the trapped water, hence the short burst of hot water.

The are many things that can cause the pump to run incessantly. Busted PCB (see earlier posts on this thread), faulty pressure switch, stuck flow sensors. Pressure vessels can cause problems, or you may have a drip / leak that you have not detected yet. It could even be a leak on the pump that you haven't spotted.

gezgblack70

Thanks for your quick reply. I called the landlord about it and he asked me to take out the fuse which is located in the boiler room with the pump. I took the fuse out and put it back in. The pump has stopped constantly running now. However I have a quick question about the pump if you don't mind.

I have been living in this apartment for a while now and ever since I've moved in here, the pump come on and off every 5-6 minutes, it comes on for about 5 seconds in every 5 minutes. All taps are closed(that is all that i am aware of). Could this be some problem or is this normal. Also my boiler itself also makes some crazy noises sometimes, the only thing I can compare the noise to is a ship creaking as it sinks like titanic -_- sorry, am not trying to be funny.
Anyways this crazy noise occurs and when I open a tap it slowly goes away.

K.Flyer

gezgblack70 wrote: »

[...]

I have been living in this apartment for a while now and ever since I've moved in here, the pump come on and off every 5-6 minutes, it comes on for about 5 seconds in every 5 minutes. All taps are closed(that is all that i am aware of). Could this be some problem or is this normal. Also my boiler itself also makes some crazy noises sometimes, the only thing I can compare the noise to is a ship creaking as it sinks like titanic -_- sorry, am not trying to be funny.
Anyways this crazy noise occurs and when I open a tap it slowly goes away.

No, the pump should not come on every few minutes, it should only operate when you are using water. By a process of elimination you would find that you most likely have a drip on the ball-cock in a toilet cistern (most common), a faulty non-return valve (next most common), or an issue with the pressure vessel, a leak on a pipe, or a leak on the pump.
The noise you refer to, sounds like you could have a water hammer problem, is it the cold kitchen tap that stops the noise?

grigore turcan

We have monsoon N2.0 bar twin pump in our apartment. It is continuously on / off. For example: after using the tap the pressure in the pump is going up to 1.7 bar and stays there for a few seconds. Then the pressure slowly go down to the 0 mark and the pump starts working for 3-4 seconds until the pressure is up 1.7 mark. The the cycle repeats. The pipes and the toilets are not leaking, we checked them.
Can anybody tell us what can course this happen?
Thank you!

K.Flyer

If leaks have been absolutely eliminated as being the cause, then most likely it is the non-return valves in the pump.

grigore turcan

Many thanks for the prompt reply, K. Flyer. Are you an electric engineer? Can the problem with non-return valve be fixed by myself or do I have to call a specialist to come and fix it? In Ireland to call an electric engineer costs 120 euro, so i would like to fix it myself. thanks.

K.Flyer

It is something that you can do for yourself if you want to, but if not done right your home could get very wet very quickly.
There are no electrical components involved, but you do need someone who is competent and experienced in pump repairs.

Zynks

K.Flyer wrote: »

A number of things can cause your pump to stay running.
What is important right now is to not allow it to stay running, plug it out or remove the fuse.
If the pump is running with no water passing through it for a long period of time you will do damage to the seals which becomes a more serious problem.

Check you have no leaks by shutting off the valves on the outlet side of the pumps (the outlets are where the pipes are connected to the higher sections of the pump heads).
If the pump is still running it is more than likely the relay on the pcb is gone and the pcb needs replacing, or the low pressure switch may be faulty and would have to be replaced.
A faulty capacitor would prevent it from starting.
And lack of air in the vessel would not cause it to keep running either.
The non return valves can cause similar problems but they are usually associated to very regular on / off patterns.
My money is on the pcb from what you describe.

This post just saved me from a meltdown after weeks of frustration trying to stop my pump from working intermittently. I know the post is six years old, but if K.Flyer is still around, THANK YOU!