Buffalo & Doozerie - The mild musings of two grumpy old men!

Alek

Can't access the radio player now, was it someone from RSA that said that?

Alek

You can't read the mind of a cyclist and they can't read yours

Taking it out of the context, this statement sounds pretty neutral to me.

But the official "1m under 50kph" advice is simply infuriating :mad::mad::mad:

buffalo

Alek wrote: »

Taking it out of the context, this statement sounds pretty neutral to me.

But the official "1m under 50kph" advice is simply infuriating :mad::mad::mad:

1m at 50kph and under. I listened a couple of times to be sure of that.

1.5m at 50kph and over would seem better advice, which mean the theoretical max speed a car would overtake at 1m would be 30kph (unless there are 40kph zones).

There was no advice to slow down when performing a 1m overtake.

Chuchote

Is this the official RSA advice, to pass cyclists at a metre distance when you're going 50kp/h? It shouldn't be. That's scarcely more than arm's length from a cyclist, really, really dangerous.

dreamerb

Chuchote wrote: »

Is this the official RSA advice, to pass cyclists at a metre distance when you're going 50kp/h? It shouldn't be. That's scarcely more than arm's length from a cyclist, really, really dangerous.

The problem with that last image (and it's one I have encountered) is that the overtaking motorist may then end up closer to a bicycle travelling in the opposite direction than the one s/he is overtaking. A collision with an "opposite direction" cyclist is likely to have substantially greater effects on both parties with the cyclist inevitably worse off. Let's say car at 50 kph, cyclists either side at 20 kmh - one crash is an effective relative rate of 30 kph (often survivable, if I recall correctly), the other is at 70 kph (usually not survivable).

I'd prefer an image which recognised the possibility of cyclists on both sides, because if this one is preaching to non-bike-riders then it should not be so simplistic.

De Bhál

dreamerb wrote: »

The problem with that last image (and it's one I have encountered) is that the overtaking motorist may then end up closer to a bicycle travelling in the opposite direction than the one s/he is overtaking. A collision with an "opposite direction" cyclist is likely to have substantially greater effects on both parties with the cyclist inevitably worse off. Let's say car at 50 kph, cyclists either side at 20 kmh - one crash is an effective relative rate of 30 kph (often survivable, if I recall correctly), the other is at 70 kph (usually not survivable).

I'd prefer an image which recognised the possibility of cyclists on both sides, because if this one is preaching to non-bike-riders then it should not be so simplistic.

You're over thinking this.

dreamerb

De Bhál wrote: »

You're over thinking this.

Maybe - but it's something I've experienced more than once: someone overtaking a cyclist on the other side coming closer to me than the person they're overtaking. Specifically (couple of times) on Heytesbury Street, also on Lower Kimmage Road.

And sure, may be ovethinking the image, but the experience is genuine.

CramCycle

dreamerb wrote: »

Maybe - but it's something I've experienced more than once: someone overtaking a cyclist on the other side coming closer to me than the person they're overtaking. Specifically (couple of times) on Heytesbury Street, also on Lower Kimmage Road.

And sure, may be ovethinking the image, but the experience is genuine.

I suppose the other way to look at it is that, the overtake you describe is nothing to do with the image. If you want to overtake and there is traffic in the opposing lane, and to complete the overtake would put the opposing traffic in danger then it should not be done.

Alek

Coming down at speed towards Northwood from the southside: there is bus lane and a cycle path starting just after the lights. In the last moment I decided to take the cycle path and then SWOOOSH, a white fecking whale of a bus passes just next to me at super speed.

I chase it to the next lights and ask the man: what was that? Do you realise what would happen if I was going to take the bus lane? Him: And what's wrong with the cycle path?

OFFS. What is wrong with people?

Sadly I don't remember the operator, something starting with B going towards Airport - does anybody know? I want to give them a call while my kids still have a father.

'68 Fastback

Admittedly I don't drive often but I doubt there are many motorists that could knowingly and accurately position their car 1 or 1.5 metres from a moving object. One persons "loads of room" is anothers "almost clipped".

I think the RSA's instructions are irresponsible here.

MediaMan

I had a very strange cycle on Sat last, spinning around the hills of North Wicklow and South Dublin. I had three separate situations with a car coming from the opposite direction, on a narrow road. In each case the driver pulled in to the left and slowed or stopped to let me pass.

Not just that. Twice I was overtaken by drivers who left me loads of space - I'm guessing about 2 metres.

I thought it might have been a dream, but no this really happened, and it was great. Left me wondering what caused these people to be so courteous, and whether it could actually become a trend.

I had a small number of close passes too (just the usual, nothing dramatic), and it made me think that if we could get drivers to give more space consistently, it would change the whole cycling experience to be so much better. We get used to close passes, but it still scary.

Anyway, thank you to those drivers out there who are careful around cyclists. It should be the norm, with no thanks required, but since its not, your consideration is appreciated!

Chuchote

I pulled in to let a truck pass today and the passenger leaned out the window and waved thanks. In return, I stopped when they parked to tell them their left-hand back light was shot. Pleasant all round.

cdaly_

Riding the hills of Antrim a week or so ago, drivers were consistently careful and courteous. They hung back awaiting a safe opportunity and left loads of room when passing...

buffalo

Cycled down Clonliffe Road today, which is a semi-regular feature of my commute home. It's generally got cars parked both sides for about half of it, and cars parked only my side for the other half. This means it can be difficult for cars to safely overtake, and I've been victim to a few close passes before.

Today however, I noticed a couple cars were pottering along very gently ahead of me - including a taxi. In front of them were two cyclists who were one behind the other and despite a long gap in oncoming traffic, nobody dared make a move to overtake.

It's surprising how much of a deterrent a Garda uniform can be.

nomdeboardie

buffalo wrote: »

Cycled down Clonliffe Road today, which is a semi-regular feature of my commute home. It's generally got cars parked both sides for about half of it, and cars parked only my side for the other half. This means it can be difficult for cars to safely overtake, and I've been victim to a few close passes before.

Today however, I noticed a couple cars were pottering along very gently ahead of me - including a taxi. In front of them were two cyclists who were one behind the other and despite a long gap in oncoming traffic, nobody dared make a move to overtake.

It's surprising how much of a deterrent a Garda uniform can be.

Garda was on one of the bikes? Ha
Now if we all just dressed up as Gardai when cycling...idea for a close-pass-free Halloween?

Police in Britain may be doing the reverse, as it were, soon...
http://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/uk/uk-plain-clothes-police-to-hunt-drivers-endangering-cyclists-1.2794016

MediaMan

nomdeboardie wrote: »

Police in Britain may be doing the reverse, as it were, soon...
http://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/uk/uk-plain-clothes-police-to-hunt-drivers-endangering-cyclists-1.2794016

What a great idea! I wonder could we interest the Gardai in doing that here...

buffalo

buffalo wrote: »

I was crossing the road this morning at a junction with no pedestrian lights. I waited for the lights to change to red, then did a quick check for traffic but I obviously managed to miss the taxi who came zipping through.

I was very grateful for the beep and the exasperated look he gave me as he slowed, to make sure that I'd be more cautious next time in case he had to break the red light again.

Same junction, different driver... this time when I raised my arm in protest I got the finger. \o/

Chuchote

Automated cameras that send out fines?

However, apparently these result in fewer people killed by idiots crashing the lights, and more people killed through idiots rear-ending cars that stop for the lights:

http://www.cdc.gov/motorvehiclesafety/calculator/factsheet/redlight.html

CramCycle

Chuchote wrote: »

However, apparently these result in fewer people killed by idiots crashing the lights, and more people killed through idiots rear-ending cars that stop for the lights:

I may be wrong but while it says there is an increase in rear ending drivers, it does say that typically those crashes are less severe. It comes across as a positive.

CramCycle

Aiming to turn right coming upto a junction on the road (right turn lane). I was at the rear of a small Fiesta. As I pootled along, keeping back enough in case they suddenly stopped or swerved, I became aware of the inconsistency of their speed and keeping up with traffic. Immediate suspicion of a phone in hand was validated when the right turn light went red and I overtook the car on the left to get into the advance bike section. Low and behold, not only was the driver facebooking away, their baby girl was in the back seat, awaiting their impending rear ending of a vehicle somewhere along the journey.

We were not in slow moving traffic, nor on a quiet road but alas, FB cannot wait. I politely gave a little shout and the window was rolled down. I pointed out, very politely, that she had a child in the back, might want to consider hanging up the phone. Maybe my friends are wired differently. I am sure some of them behave like this driver but most would be so ashamed once the child was brought up they would either go schtum or look ashamed.

Not this driver, in fact, around the corner (I turn immediately left after going right), she swung in to make sure I heard her telling me to F##K OFF.

Chuchote

CramCycle wrote: »

Aiming to turn right coming up to a junction on the road (right turn lane). I was at the rear of a small Fiesta… not only was the driver facebooking away, their baby girl was in the back seat, awaiting their impending rear ending of a vehicle somewhere along the journey.

We were not in slow moving traffic, nor on a quiet road…

Not this driver, in fact, around the corner (I turn immediately left after going right), she swung in to make sure I heard her telling me to F##K OFF.

A lovely example for her child. The Irish Mammy at her best.

Alek

I came across a special breed of a fellow cyclist today. Full gear, red carbon Spesh, bidon in the rear pocket.

I have noticed from a distance that his bike is swinging left and right while going along a straight road, like he was climbing off saddle. His hips were also rocking more than Lemmy in his best years.

I caught him at the lights and asked: if you don't mind, are you comfortable with this saddle position? It seems way too high....

- I'm fine!

At this stage he was ready to roll through the red light. I was stopped. Toot! - we heard from an impatient motorist behind.

- WHY DON'T YOU RELAX A BIT FOR THE FCUK SAKE!!! - he roared and then turned to me - Aaaahh, women drivers! They always...

- Men are no better... I said a bit shyly, not wanting to unleash his inner demon with my usual reply to this misogynistic BS. But the light turned green and he was already in the front.

With a prospect of observing the not-so-teasing moves of his derrière, I decided to overtake.

I could hear he sped up. So did I.

As the next lights were turning red I slowed and he suddenly swooshed by me, almost getting under a car on the right. Another TOOT!!!, much more assertive as well as deserved.

- WHAT THE FCUK DO YOU WANT, I HAVE RIGHT TO USE THE ROAD, YA FCUKING BWAHA MRAWHADWAFUKAEEEJEEET!!!!!!!! - erupted from his mouth with appropriate amount of saliva, straight into the car's side window.

I watched this in awe and with ice cold feeling that I am not innocent of road rage myself. It was like a distorted mirror of a few incidents I had with taxis, yet his asshat mastery was at another level, and attack was brutal and instant.

Unrecognizable stream of filth continued to flow for a while, accompanied by almost Italian body language.

Finally lights have changed again and I put the foot down to escape any possibility of him trying to find an ally in me.

He continued to break reds and I kept overtaking him on my steel touring bike with panniers, bar bag; jeans, hoodie and all.

I've heard him panting behind me and couldn't help feeling a bit of satisfaction visualizing his hips finally giving up, legs falling away on both sides, still clipped, and the look on his face when trying to figure out how to stop without falling over now.

mjsc1970

Weepsie wrote: »

I might have had Alek's fellow road user today, but for the bike and dress. However, it was the weirdest and quickest case of road rage and anger I have ever witnessed.

I was stopped at the head of a queue at a red light in Drumcondra (near the Skylon). Semi clipped in, one foot waiting to push off.

Light still red and one guy goes on through. Still red, another guy follows and comes very close to me as I'm clipping in and balancing myself.

I give a semi audible, but under the breathe "F*c sake". As much to myself as anything as i deemed it careless by both.

First guy then slowed down to a saunter, second guy kept trying to pass, and I was in behind both of them. First guy was getting agitated and looking around, I shook my head nearly involuntarily, but they were both being eejits. Second guy passed first guy. and I went to overtake him too. At this point he flipped.

"Are you shaking your head at me!!???!!" he said at least twice. I just said he broke the light back there and went on my way. He decided to speed up and cycle beside me, pointing and spitting and giving out "So what", "What's it to you" "pr!ck". He was also a bit all over the path and on footpath at this stage.

He ducked ahead of me, and then cycled on. Slowed down to give me another earful. "Are you the police of the road?" "Is it your job?" - I said it's my job to make sure I get home safely. He said, I'm hardly going to stop and when I can save two seconds (which is moronic as he slowed down immediately after ploughing through).

More insults came forth. He then started purposely wobbling his bike in front or beside me. I said my goodbyes and picked up my pace. I had to slow to overtake some cyclists spread across the path. He busted a gut to follow me it seems and then was even more erractic in front of me. He very nearly clipped his back wheel off my front wheel but I was attentive enough to him. Had I wanted, I could've knocked him off his bike into the wall beside him but I carried on.

Coming up to a junction with a red light ahead and a bus stop. "Ladies first he said". I pointed out there was in fact a light he might want to break, which I admit was a bit passive aggressive and very smart arsed. He called me a pr!ck again. It's lucky for him he didn't go for the light, as he would've been under the wheel of a bus.

I take that route regularly. I imagine I'll see him again.

He is either having a very, very bad day, or something in his life his stressful right now. That's what I tend to think these days if I get a reaction like that. If not, he is the biggest arsehole I've had the displeasure of meeting on the road as he wanted me to do something. He was looking for an excuse to throw a dig.. I'm slowly learning to be a bit more Zen with people as they don't like when you don't react.

Jeez, life is way too short for all that nonsense isn't it. I mostly commute by motorbike, sometimes by bicycle. Like you I just wanna get to work/home in one piece, stress free.

doozerie

There are days when it seems like the world's arseholes choose you to unleash their nastiness upon entirely because you ride a bike. I try to remember that their motivation for picking on a cyclist really has little to do with the bike and more to do with their own issues. It's a struggle to maintain that perspective at times however.

Occasionally though you are reminded that arseholes are not selective at all. That they are arseholes through and through and that they are angry with the entire world, not just with cyclists. It's strangely reassuring.

So I should perhaps be grateful to the driver of the Mini a few weeks back, he reassured me greatly. I was driving my own car at the time, it's disappointingly not bicycle shaped so I couldn't have been mistaken for a cyclist. I approached 2 cyclists ahead. I know the road well, the climb is deceptively taxing, it's a relatively narrow road with blind bends near the top. Lot of very good reasons for me to slow behind the cyclists and match their pace for the mere couple of hundred metres before the road opens out after the top of the climb.

While trying to ogle their bikes I noticed a Mini approaching fast from behind. I dabbed the brake pedal so that my brake lights would remind him of why he should really slow down pretty soon. When he finally and suddenly slowed to my speed he was less than a car length behind me. I glanced in the rear view mirror to see him throwing both hands in the air. Not like he "just didn't care", more like he cared a lot, he cared enough that we wanted to care my car right off the road.

I laughed. His actions were more pathetic than funny really, but laughing seemed like the thing to do. He gunned his car even closer to mine. I'm not precious about my car but I also don't want to be rammed, but there's not a lot you can do in that situation. The only option was to maintain my current slow speed, obviously speeding up and driving through the cyclists or overtaking them and possibly hitting an oncoming car on the blind bend ahead weren't valid options. I was comforted though by the fact that his Mini versus my Octavia didn't seem like an evenly matched fight, plus he'd find it hard to explain to his insurance company how he was in the right if he rear-ended me.

So I held my speed steady. He glared at me. I pointed at the cyclists ahead. He didn't deserve an explanation, his antics were inexcusable whatever the circumstances, but I was giving him an excuse to pull back in the horns he had sprouted. He just flared his nostrils and gunned his engine again and closed to within a metre of my bumper.

I don't like bullies, the temptation was to stop the car and walk back and ask him what exactly he was trying to do. But that is a terrible idea for a whole bunch of reasons. Far better to potter along at my current speed and watch him implode in my rear view mirror. Which he kindly did.

He backed off by a couple of car lengths and then accelerated up to my bumper again. He did this a couple more times, throwing both arms in the air in between times. It was quite the performance, very polished, tantrums clearly are not new to him. This continued down the other side of the hill, as there still wasn't room to safely overtake.

By the time he swung an angry right off the road behind me we'd covered about 500m at most. The overall delay he experienced couldn't have amounted to anything more than a few tens of seconds. Yet, he angrily mimed a life that was ruined. Utterly. Ruined. And several times too, within that short period. It was an impressively comprehensive mental collapse, Reader's Digest style.

But to that driver I have to say thank you. Thank you for reminding me that people like you don't pick on others just because they are cyclists, you pick on them because you are a tosspot to the core and you consider absolutely everyone to be a valid target of your petulance. Thank you for reminding me that the problem is not us, it's you, all you.

CramCycle

doozerie wrote: »

I don't like bullies, the temptation was to stop the car and walk back and ask him what exactly he was trying to do. But that is a terrible idea for a whole bunch of reasons. Far better to potter along at my current speed and watch him implode in my rear view mirror. Which he kindly did.

I feel like this on occasion, and thankfully follow your lead with the, what a terrible idea rationale. The thing is though, one day, if this driver keeps it up, he will meet someone who will stop. They will get out. They will go to explain their feelings. One day though, one of these drivers will find that the person does not use words or grand hand gestures, but more physical means.

I am not sure the point of my story, except for highlighting more stupidity by the mini man.

magicbastarder

doozerie wrote: »

I also don't want to be rammed, but there's not a lot you can do in that situation. The only option was to maintain my current slow speed, obviously speeding up and driving through the cyclists or overtaking them and possibly hitting an oncoming car on the blind bend ahead weren't valid options.

reminds me of when i was driving from the N11 to enniskerry once - a windy quite narrow road if you don't know it - and it was dark; and someone plonked themselves less than a car length behind me when i was doing what i considered a reasonable speed in the conditions for such a road (can't remember now, let's say it was less than 50km/h). given that i had a car so close behind me - dangerous in itself - i slowed to account for the fact, and the slower i got, the closer he got. it became a fascinating psychological experiment; he clearly did not realise that the closer he got, the slower i drove, but he was not confident enough to overtake.
oh, to be young and relatively foolish again. but when someone is driving so close to you, that you cannot actually see their headlights in the mirrors, what are you going to do?

Leroy42

Weepsie wrote: »

Light still red and one guy goes on through. Still red, another guy follows and comes very close to me as I'm clipping in and balancing myself.

I give a semi audible, but under the breathe "F*c sake". As much to myself as anything as i deemed it careless by both.


"Are you shaking your head at me!!???!!" he said at least twice. I just said he broke the light back there and went on my way. He decided to speed up and cycle beside me, pointing and spitting and giving out "So what", "What's it to you" "pr!ck". He was also a bit all over the path and on footpath at this stage.

But really what business is it of yours? So the guy wants to break a light, let him. And if you are going to go around deciding that you are going to pass judgement on people then at least do it properly not muttering under your breath your displeasure and disdain.

Sure the guy over reacted but if you are going to carry on like some sort of head teacher and scold the bold kids then you are going to come across that.

magicbastarder wrote: »

given that i had a car so close behind me - dangerous in itself - i slowed to account for the fact, and the slower i got, the closer he got. it became a fascinating psychological experiment; he clearly did not realise that the closer he got, the slower i drove, but he was not confident enough to overtake.

Or to put it another way, you felt that the guy was too close so to teach him a lesson you slowed right down to p1ss him off. Maybe you should concentrate on your own driving instead of actively seeking to disrupt others and then laugh about it afterwards.

Guys seriously, then is a line between being assertive of your rights and actively seeking to annoy others. If someone causes, or is likely to cause, danger to yourself then by all means say something or try to help avoid the situation but both these cases, especially the second, are actively making the situation worse

magicbastarder

Leroy42 wrote: »

Or to put it another way, you felt that the guy was too close so to teach him a lesson you slowed right down to p1ss him off. Maybe you should concentrate on your own driving instead of actively seeking to disrupt others and then laugh about it afterwards.

yeah, of course i was aware it was going to piss him off.
what are you supposed to do if someone is driving less than a car length behind you on an unlit twisty road, where speeding up and driving off is not a sane option? you realise how intimidating that scenario is?
i hadn't been driving that long, so it was certainly a new experience for me.

odyssey06

Leroy42 wrote: »

Or to put it another way, you felt that the guy was too close so to teach him a lesson you slowed right down to p1ss him off. Maybe you should concentrate on your own driving instead of actively seeking to disrupt others and then laugh about it afterwards.
Guys seriously, then is a line between being assertive of your rights and actively seeking to annoy others. If someone causes, or is likely to cause, danger to yourself then by all means say something or try to help avoid the situation but both these cases, especially the second, are actively making the situation worse

I think in this instance, slowing down was the proper course of action to take... if the guy behind won't drive at the proper braking distance, drive at the speed for which that distance is the proper braking distance.

Dermot Illogical

If someone brushes past while you're balancing at a light they want to break, then it becomes your business. But I agree it's wrong to mutter about it. Clearly audible abuse is best, as long as you're bigger and/or faster than him.

Leroy42 wrote: »

But really what business is it of yours? So the guy wants to break a light, let him. And if you are going to go around deciding that you are going to pass judgement on people then at least do it properly not muttering under your breath your displeasure and disdain.

Sure the guy over reacted but if you are going to carry on like some sort of head teacher and scold the bold kids then you are going to come across that.