Protest in Dublin

oceanclub

babaracus wrote: »

Passed down the Quays by the IFSC today at about 3.15. About 100 in it and a few megaphones. Cops marshalling it.

A lot of anti Youtube posters so makes sense that they were google bound.

I trust they'll all be boycotting Youtube then.

Yeah right, they're probably already chuckling over "Gangnam Style" again.

P.

oceanclub

oceanclub wrote: »

I trust they'll all be boycotting Youtube then.

Yeah right, they're probably already chuckling over "Gangnam Style" again.

P.

There is plenty of horrible anti-Jewish stuff on youtube. Maybe they are concerned about that too.

MaxSteele

Christ, do these people ever have anything constructive to protest about other than silly, cartoons and spoof videos ? Like in Ireland of all places ?:rolleyes:

oceanclub

It would really highlight how stupid the blasphemy law is if a complaint was made to the Gardai about Google...

P.

Lance Mai Boil

MaxSteele wrote: »

Christ, do these people ever have anything constructive to protest about other than silly, cartoons and spoof videos ? Like in Ireland of all places ?:rolleyes:

When they aren't queuing at the dole office, no obviously.

MrZero

MaxSteele wrote: »

Christ, do these people ever have anything constructive to protest about other than silly, cartoons and spoof videos ? Like in Ireland of all places ?:rolleyes:

people have the right to protest.. right ? remember "Freedom of Speech"
it might be silly to you, but to them it is not..abuse to any faith is not

MagicMarker

MrZero wrote: »

people have the right to protest.. right ? remember "Freedom of Speech"
it might be silly to you, but to them it is not..abuse to any faith is not

Yep, "freedom of speech", too bad the protestors are protesting against "freedom of speech". Kind of ironic really.

MrZero

MagicMarker wrote: »

Yep, "freedom of speech", too bad the protestors are protesting against "freedom of speech". Kind of ironic really.

is "freedom of speech" limitless ?!

MagicMarker

There are limits, but they haven't been reached in this particular instance. Just like they wouldn't be reached should I decide to draw a picture of Mohammed riding a unicorn over a rainbow or if I decide to call Mohammed a pedofile.

MrZero

MagicMarker wrote: »

There are limits, but they haven't been reached in this particular instance. Just like they wouldn't be reached should I decide to draw a picture of Mohammed riding a unicorn over a rainbow or if I decide to call Mohammed a pedofile.

okay, so there are limits to freedom of speech! But, however, they have not been reached in your opinion...

so offending others beliefs (1.5 billion muslims) is considered to be freedom of speech ?!!

MagicMarker

Doesn't matter if it's 1 person or 1.5 billion people, your beliefs are open to criticism and even ridicule. If you're offended by that then you need to deal with it.

A person shouldn't be afraid of his/her life to say what he/she thinks.

MaxSteele

MrZero wrote: »

okay, so there are limits to freedom of speech! But, however, they have not been reached in your opinion...

so offending others beliefs (1.5 billion muslims) is considered to be freedom of speech ?!!

Offense is subjective. If you're offended, fine, be offended. Theres nothing morally or legally wrong in causing offense. But don't cry about it because no one else takes your protest seriously. It's a strawman argument used to for people to stamp they're feet. These worldwide protests just further make a mockery and a comedy show of islam.

Most half wit, mature adults will just brush this off for what it is. Satire and a badly made, obvious piss take film of islam. Yes it's freedom of speech. A large shower of idiots protest against the idea of Freedom of Speech without realizing it and expect to be taken seriously ?

MrZero

MagicMarker wrote: »

Doesn't matter if it's 1 person or 1.5 billion people, your beliefs are open to criticism and even ridicule. If you're offended by that then you need to deal with it.

A person shouldn't be afraid of his/her life to say what he/she thinks.

I totally agree with you that they are open to criticism, but,however,not abuse ... you cannot just offend others faith and expect them to accept it ...

People have the right to be respected and their faith to be respected too! Spreading hateful speech will do nothing good ...

MagicMarker

MrZero wrote: »

I totally agree with you that they are open to criticism, but,however,not abuse ... you cannot just offend others faith and expect them to accept it ...

People have the right to be respected and their faith to be respected too! Spreading hateful speech will do nothing good ...

No, people and their faith do not have the right to be respected.

Do you think the KKK and their beliefs have the right to be respected?

MrZero

MaxSteele wrote: »

Offense is subjective. If you're offended, fine, be offended. Theres nothing morally or legally wrong in causing offense. But don't cry about it because no one else takes your protest seriously. It's a strawman argument used to for people to stamp they're feet. These worldwide protests just further make a mockery and a comedy show of islam.

Most half wit, mature adults will just brush this off for what it is. Satire and a badly made, obvious piss take film of islam. Yes it's freedom of speech. A large shower of idiots protest against the idea of Freedom of Speech without realizing it and expect to be taken seriously ?

I do not think it matters if you take it seriously, or not. They are just practicing their rights to protest against something they think is hateful to their faith! And I think we all agree that it is their right to do whatever they want! Protest against whatever they disagree with..

what you think is "Freedom of speech" others might disagree with you and consider it to be a "hateful speech" .. You can't have a limitless freedom of speech .. it never existed before, it doesn't exist, and will never exist.

MrZero

MagicMarker wrote: »

No, people and their faith do not have the right to be respected.

Do you think the KKK and their beliefs have the right to be respected?

Respecting someones beliefs, does not mean accepting them .. And I think there is a huge difference between KKK beliefs and Muslims beliefs. And mocking muslims is not very civilized thing to do

biko

I think they should have a right to protest peacefully which most demonstration have been.
They even have the right (in the Western world) to step on and burn our flags - just like we have the right to step on and burn their flags.
But when it get violent there is no excuse.

In Stockholm during the movie protest this guy (black jacket/red armband) attacks a Swede, then later he goes up on the podium to hold a speech in Arabic. The Swede gets told off by a police man.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7J0B34JjLpM

Violence is the last stand of desperation (and then I think it can be justified in certain cases) - but Muslims in the Western world aren't desperate, they are merely "offended" and tbh I don't give a toss about that.

MagicMarker

MrZero wrote: »

Respecting someones beliefs, does not mean accepting them .. And I think there is a huge difference between KKK beliefs and Muslims beliefs. And mocking muslims is not very civilized thing to do

So we should always be respectful of the KKKs beliefs? Why? If someone says to me "I think non white people are sub human", am I not allowed to say that that is ridiculous? Why does that belief deserve respect from me?

Why am I not allowed to draw a picture of Mohammed?

MrZero

MagicMarker wrote: »

So we should always be respectful of the KKKs beliefs? Why? If someone says to me "I think non white people are sub human", am I not allowed to say that that is ridiculous? Why does that belief deserve respect from me?

Why am I not allowed to draw a picture of Mohammed?

As I said before, there is a huge difference between KKA beliefs and Muslims beliefs .. You cannot compare between them ! Everyone deserves respect unless they have shown otherwise ..

why would you want to draw a picture of Mohammed ?! what is the REAL reason that would make anyone want to mock others belief ?!

MagicMarker

MrZero wrote: »

As I said before, there is a huge difference between KKA beliefs and Muslims beliefs .. You cannot compare between them ! Everyone deserves respect unless they have shown otherwise ..

why would you want to draw a picture of Mohammed ?! what is the REAL reason that would make anyone want to mock others belief ?!

You're ignoring my question. You said people's beliefs have a right to be respected, I'm asking you why I should have to respect the belief that non-whites are sub human? Why should I respect that belief?

I don't want to draw a picture of Mohammed, but I like having the option, so why can't I? Do I not have the right to draw it without my life being in danger as a result?

Icepick

If they are going to protest against a piece of film-making, surely there are better targets than that. You know, like the Total Recall remake.

MrZero

MagicMarker wrote: »

You're ignoring my question. You said people's beliefs have a right to be respected, I'm asking you why I should have to respect the belief that non-whites are sub human? Why should I respect that belief?

I don't want to draw a picture of Mohammed, but I like having the option, so why can't I? Do I not have the right to draw it without my life being in danger as a result?

Okay, you dont have to respect such a belief, as it is clearly racism! But any religious beliefs are mostly have nothing to do with you, but with the believer, so why would you to interfere with his beliefs ? why would you want to mock his beliefs ?!

Many muslims lack education and there are some extremist -as there are in any other part of the world- who will kill in the name of Islam. You should not be killed if you drew a picture of Mohammed, but in my opinion there should be a legislation that doesnt allow such things.. just the same way there is a law against Holocaust denial in Europe !!

MagicMarker

MrZero wrote: »

Okay, you dont have to respect such a belief, as it is clearly racism! But any religious beliefs are mostly have nothing to do with you, but with the believer, so why would you to interfere with his beliefs ? why would you want to mock his beliefs ?!

It doesn't matter if it's racism, the point that I'm trying to make and that you've finally agreed with, is that a person's beliefs are not deserving of respect. Just because you or anyone else believes something doesn't mean I have to respect it.

Why I might want to mock something is irrelevant, the point is I have the right to do so.

MrZero wrote: »

Many muslims lack education and there are some extremist -as there are in any other part of the world- who will kill in the name of Islam. You should not be killed if you drew a picture of Mohammed, but in my opinion there should be a legislation that doesnt allow such things.. just the same way there is a law against Holocaust denial in Europe !!

I really hope you're not talking about legislation against drawing pictures of Mohammed? Why not legislate against drawing caricatures of people, for fear of offending them? Or legislate against stand up comedians, in case they mock someone?

MrZero

MrZero wrote: »

As I said before, there is a huge difference between KKA beliefs and Muslims beliefs .. You cannot compare between them ! Everyone deserves respect unless they have shown otherwise ..

So what you're saying is everyone that you happen to agree with or like deserves respect. Everyone you don't agree with or like is "just different" and you can totally not respect them.
Well, beliefs are beliefs, respect one, respect em all.

oceanclub

MrZero wrote: »

so offending others beliefs (1.5 billion muslims) is considered to be freedom of speech ?!!

Just to be clear, do you think

(a) offending the beliefs of Muslims should be illegal, but offending other people's beliefs are fine?

(b) offending _anyone's_ beliefs should be illegal?

P.

irishconvert

I don't agree that freedom of speech extends to using the freedom purely to insult a person or group of people. This is an abuse of the freedom.

irishconvert

When does freecom of speech become harassment? Accoring to this document from University of Galway, these videos and offensive cartoons qualify as harassment

http://www.nuigalway.ie/equality/documents/Harassment_SexualHarassmentPolicyProcedure.pdf

2.1 What is harassment?
Harassment may be defined as behaviour which is unwelcome, intimidating or offensive to
the recipient which is based on gender, marital status, family status, sexual orientation,
religious belief, age, disability, race or membership of the traveller community and which
the perpetrator knows, or should know, is unwanted. It can take the form of a verbal,
physical or psychological attack, and can be openly aggressive or subtly hidden. Sometimes
harassment may involve repeated and persistent behaviour.
The impact of harassment can be devastating, and it can threaten a person’s job security or
create an intimidating working or studying environment. It can also affect health and
personal life generally.
Harassment can include
• Suggestive remarks, insults, gestures, jokes or unwanted physical contact
• The use of or the circulation of pornographic or other offensive material
(refer to par 2.4)
• It can be sexual, ageist, sectarian or racial in form or in undertone
• It can offend because of a person’s disability
A detailed definition of Harassment is found in Section 32 of the Employment Equality Act,
1998 (Appendix 1 attached) and Section 11 of the Equal Status Act 2000 (Appendix 2
attached).

wes

irishconvert wrote: »

When does freecom of speech become harassment? Accoring to this document from University of Galway, these videos and offensive cartoons qualify as harassment

http://www.nuigalway.ie/equality/documents/Harassment_SexualHarassmentPolicyProcedure.pdf

That document is for Sexual Harassment, and it deals with individuals. So for the video to fall under harrassment, someone who have to send it to someoneS email, VIA post or whatever else. The harassment would have to be targetting someone specfically. So someone going to a Muslim house, and plastering the street outside there house and only outside there house, would probably fall under that definition.

oceanclub

irishconvert wrote: »

I don't agree that freedom of speech extends to using the freedom purely to insult a person or group of people. This is an abuse of the freedom.

So slagging off Fianna Failers is an abuse of freedom then?

P.

irishconvert

wes wrote: »

That document is for Sexual Harassment

No, it is for harassment, both sexual and non-sexual.

wes wrote: »

and it deals with individuals. So for the video to fall under harrassment, someone who have to send it to someoneS email, VIA post or whatever else. The harassment would have to be targetting someone specfically. So someone going to a Muslim house, and plastering the street outside there house and only outside there house, would probably fall under that definition.

I know, I was just giving it as an example of how this kind of behaviour is not socially acceptable and is certainly not tolerated in a workplace.