Rás Tailteann – Rothaí an tSaoil TG4 Wednesday 21:30

Cape Clear

Might be worth a look!

Rás Tailteann – Rothaí an tSaoil (OS)21:30(1/1) The great untold story of Irish sport and world cycling: The RásTailteann. First ran in 1953 its aim was to symbolise the nationalist aspirations of its organisers and promote Irish culture at a time of fierce political and sporting divisions. In Ireland, as we’ll see, the line between sport and politics is a very fine one indeed.

funnights74

Definitely, looks good to mise..

Heres Your Future

they were talkin about this documentary on the sports show on newstalk earlier this evening, sounds like it might be worth a look alright

torydiver

The "RAS" - Documentary tonight on TG4

Hope this link works for a preview.....



http://vimeo.com/49760431

ednwireland

Threads merged

ed

buffalo

Bump! This is on now, in case anyone's forgotten.

buffalo

Love the clip of Paddy Flanagan saying he's "20 years too old" to win the Rás. "Isn't that what you said two years ago Paddy?" :P

Lot of familiar names from various races. What's a good book to read up on the history of Irish cycling? Ray Kennedy's "Men of the Rás"?

Felloffmebike

Fascinating story. Never knew that stuff about the Munich Olympics. The old footage is brilliant. Loved the bit where they carry the bikes through the stream that crosses the road out near Slea Head on the Dingle peninsula. And helmets? What helmets?? Want to know more now.. Where should I look?

RobFowl

Really enjoyed that!
Well done to all involved

SomeFool

Really interesting and enjoyable, thanks op!!!!

happytramp

Brilliant.

Munich? Jaysus, what were they thinking!!

531

Countries are political entities. Once a sportsperson represents a country, politics is involved.

Agree or disagree with him, Joe Christle was a fascinating man.

greenmat

Is it being repeated? Missed the first half.

MichealD

Repeated Sunday afternoon at 4:55pm

Brilliant program. Well done TG4.

le petit braquet

greenmat wrote: »

Is it being repeated? Missed the first half.

Try the TG4 Player in a couple of days as most home produced programmes are repeated there.

le petit braquet

Found this while googling after the programme

http://www.flickr.com/photos/anpost/sets/72157626175064456/with/5488886515/

lennymc

great programme, really enjoyable.

CaoimH_in

I couldn't watch the whole thing. I'm really not a nationalist, nor little islander, and that's really who the documentary seemed for. It's also rare TG4 do a documentary that doesn't become over indulged with over-romantic story-telling, and I thought it went that way too. It was nice to get an image of how it was, but it just felt like a caricature over a portrait.

I was disappointed.

Junior

I thought it was a very good program, but it felt a bit like *sh1t* *sh1t* we've got 50 minutes of history lets throw the final 3 decades in together in the next few minutes, now to be fair there was a lot of stuff like Munich that needed a bit of indepth explaining to it. But like the rush job towards the end kind of left me going, ahh here what the.. You were left with the impression that Cycling isn't unified, the same organizations are still around etc those last ten minutes of it left it down.

The Rás has evolved as a major player on the world stage these days, with it being used as a huge stepping stone for riders both Irish and Internationally to step up into the Pro World. I think it really needed to be a 2 or a 3 part documentary.

wav1

Really enjoyed that.The Munich affair was really the beginning of the end,as far as the split in Irish cycling was concerned.Whilst it took another 7 years or so to finally nail it down,things were different after that.Dignam and O'Hanlon brought new ways to the top table of the NCA,and there was also a mellowing in the ICF.By the start of the 1979 season all federations were racing in the same peleton,which was also the year that Roche won the ras.
A little tale for all of you as a follow on from the Munich affair.The 2 riders from the 2 Irish teams that were involved in the fistycuffs in the middle of the bunch that day were both in a hotel in Dingle during the ras of 1995 which was some 23 years after the incident.A member of a prominent Irish cycling family who was also present on the night,seized the moment and brought the two guys together.They shook hands and embraced,and for me that brought the curtain down on anything that had gone before.
Whilst there is still some bantering from time to time,among those of us old enough to remember the ''split'' its all good humoured stuff,just reminding us all,of how silly the whole them and us thing was.

QueensGael

Comhghairdeas TG4, clár den scoth! I had no idea about the events in Munich, mad stuff. Really enjoyed the program

JOHN_70

Very enjoyable program, but as somebody said already a 50 minute documentary doesn't do it justice. The book 'The Ras: Ireland's Unique Bike Race 1953-2003' by Tom Daly is well worth a read.

cameramonkey

CaoimH_in wrote: »

I couldn't watch the whole thing. I'm really not a nationalist, nor little islander, and that's really who the documentary seemed for. It's also rare TG4 do a documentary that doesn't become over indulged with over-romantic story-telling, and I thought it went that way too. It was nice to get an image of how it was, but it just felt like a caricature over a portrait.

I was disappointed.

The programme seemed an accurate picture of what went on in the cycling world in Ireland. It was well made and had lots of good contributors and some fantastic footage, I think that having michael o muircheartaigh was a mistake , he dosnt seem to have much cycling knowledge and I think was only there because he is a name.

The people were talking very much about a different time in terms of our relationship with the UK and indeed the programme reflected this, I dont believe that those portrayed were particularly unusual in Ireland in those days, indeed they were certainly not " little islands" as they seemed to have a huge interest in racing abroad and having a vision of having a a really big and important cycle race in Ireland every year.

Looking at the people through todays eyes is a bit short sighted, after all it is history and closing your eyes to this just because you dont like their politics is no way to learn about the past.

For all those who are interested in cycling and history this is well worth a watch.

Also some of the gear the riders were wearing was great, we need someone to get some retro Baile Átha Cliath jerseys made.

morana

Thankfully we have no more splits in the cycling family!

I missed it but will try get it on the player. I was at the book launch and got a lot of the winners to sign the book felt stupid doing it at the time but glad I did now with Billy Kerr and Seamus Kennedy passing away.

padjo5

JOHN_70 wrote: »

Very enjoyable program, but as somebody said already a 50 minute documentary doesn't do it justice. The book 'The Ras: Ireland's Unique Bike Race 1953-2003' by Tom Daly is well worth a read.

I'm finding Tom Daly's book is a great indepth account of the ras, right up to recent times. Full of stories about the riders etc, highly recommend it.

Daithi BC

le petit braquet wrote: »

Try the TG4 Player in a couple of days as most home produced programmes are repeated there.

It's up on the Player now.

le petit braquet

CaoimH_in wrote: »

I couldn't watch the whole thing. I'm really not a nationalist, nor little islander, and that's really who the documentary seemed for. It's also rare TG4 do a documentary that doesn't become over indulged with over-romantic story-telling, and I thought it went that way too. It was nice to get an image of how it was, but it just felt like a caricature over a portrait.

I was disappointed.

I can't agree with your first sentence. The documentary obviously had to deal with actions and views of those who were clearly nationalist and probably little islanders. This doesn't mean that it was aimed at people with similar views. However I do agree that the end of the "split" wasn't really dealt with, but then I'm sure raising funds for a project like this isn't easy and maybe that accounts for the length.

On a different note, there is a story in Tim Pat Coogan's book on the IRA about Joe Christle. Apparently while a law student he sat an exam in the morning which had a a question regarding the powers of the state and armed rebellion, and then in the evening he took part in an attack on an RUC barracks. Would have been interesting to read his answer.

Cape Clear

Post delete

CaoimH_in

le petit braquet wrote: »

I can't agree with your first sentence. The documentary obviously had to deal with actions and views of those who were clearly nationalist and probably little islanders. This doesn't mean that it was aimed at people with similar views.

Mmm, OK, it's open to that interpretation, which is a fair one--one I'd nearly go with--but I still don't think it tried to counter-act its nationalistic view by being a more open documentary. I don't want this to descend into politics, so we'll agree to disagree.

daragh_

cameramonkey wrote: »

I think that having michael o muircheartaigh was a mistake , he dosnt seem to have much cycling knowledge and I think was only there because he is a name.

I was lucky enough to meet him through work last year. We got chatting about cycling and he was a wealth of knowledge about the Rás. He's a real gent.

brasshead

cameramonkey wrote: »

Also some of the gear the riders were wearing was great, we need someone to get some retro Baile Átha Cliath jerseys made.

Now, there's a project and a business opportunity .

Agree with all the other comments - it was a great documentary. As someone new to cycling, I had no idea of the split. Looking back on it now, it does seem almost comical, though I've no doubt it was taken very seriously by all concerned at the time.

cameramonkey

daragh_ wrote: »

I was lucky enough to meet him through work last year. We got chatting about cycling and he was a wealth of knowledge about the Rás. He's a real gent.

Ok I stand corrected but his contributions in the programme I thought were more general and not really that insightful visa-vi the Ras, that of course might be the questions he was asked or the way the show was edited.


I also worked with him a few years ago and he is a very professional and a generally nice guy.

manwithaplan

daragh_ wrote: »

I was lucky enough to meet him through work last year. We got chatting about cycling and he was a wealth of knowledge about the Rás. He's a real gent.

And no subtitles could do justice to his beautiful Irish. Tá mé fíor bhródiúil as Sé O Hanlon chomh maith - ní amháín le lucht an Ríocht í an Ghaeilge!

As someone new to cycling, I had no idea of the split. Looking back on it now, it does seem almost comical, though I've no doubt it was taken very seriously by all concerned at the time.

I love reading stuff like this. Isn't it great how far we have come. We should all be grateful to those who healed the rift in cycling because it was people like them in all areas of civic and social life that made it all possible.

Cape Clear

brasshead wrote: »

Now, there's a project and a business opportunity .

Agree with all the other comments - it was a great documentary. As someone new to cycling, I had no idea of the split. Looking back on it now, it does seem almost comical, though I've no doubt it was taken very seriously by all concerned at the time.

A cycling shop in Tralee produced/sold a kerry versiona few years ago. There was a thread on it here at the time.

Cape Clear

daragh_ wrote: »

I was lucky enough to meet him through work last year. We got chatting about cycling and he was a wealth of knowledge about the Rás. He's a real gent.

I think it was Micheal's son who was behind the race the ras fund raiser last year. I stand corrected

manwithaplan

Cape Clear wrote: »

A cycling shop in Tralee produced/sold a kerry versiona few years ago.

I note from last night that the tradition of kerry jerseys being stopped in their tracks by Ulstermen is long established.

wav1

Cape Clear wrote: »

I think it was Micheal's son who was behind the race the ras fund raiser last year. I stand corrected

It was indeed his son who was behind the race the ras.Micheal himself showed up at the stage end in Castleisland in 2011 and was the most popular man on the street.He hails from the same part of Kerry as Paudie Fitzgerald,and i'd say he has a vast knowledge of the Mangan,Fitzgerald,Murphy era in the ras.You have to remember that before the pro continental teams started coming to the race,all these good riders in the ras were household names,and were given the same acclaim as a counties top GAA stars.A different timi I know,but thats the way it was.

JOHN_70

wav1 wrote: »

You have to remember that before the pro continental teams started coming to the race,all these good riders in the ras were household names,and were given the same acclaim as a counties top GAA stars.A different timi I know,but thats the way it was.

Very true, even up to the 1980's I can remember there being almost as much discussion about the Ras as there would be about the GAA and I well remember my father talking about the Ras in the 50's and 60's.

In a way I think the Kelly/Roche era led to the general public switching their focus to the Tour/Giro/Vuelta etc and maybe losing interest in what was happening on their own doorsteps.

alexanderomahon

Bhí an clár go hiontach. Ni raibh fhios agam aon rud faoi an split

Anybody know where you can get hold of the old Ireland Jersey form the 70's. Looked brilliant

Felloffmebike

It made me want to find out more. And my local librarian was able to come up with the Tom Daly book on the Ras today. They were some men. I glanced through it and love the story of the peloton coming through Longford just after the cattle market and having to ride the rest of the stage covered in cow dung.... Wouldn't be great for the fancy machines they ride now..

rflynnr

May I humbly submit that if we're pushing for the revival of retro Irish cycling jerseys that this one (http://www.flickr.com/photos/anpost/5489482694/in/set-72157626175064456) should be at the top of the list.

alexanderomahon

rflynnr wrote: »

May I humbly submit that if we're pushing for the revival of retro Irish cycling jerseys that this one (http://www.flickr.com/photos/anpost/5489482694/in/set-72157626175064456) should be at the top of the list.

I'm sure Nico Roche will be able to arrange one free with every entry to his CLASSIC sportive over at Taytopark on 6th October

wav1

alexanderomahon wrote: »

Bhí an clár go hiontach. Ni raibh fhios agam aon rud faoi an split

Anybody know where you can get hold of the old Ireland Jersey form the 70's. Looked brilliant

I.T have one of those jerseys and the lotto jackpot wouldn't let me part with it as it was the only one i ever got.Wore it in the very first junior tour of Ireland as part of the NCA team[2 x Irish teams in this event also]This was in 1978 and helped in no small way towards the unity process as this was only about 7 months before we would all race together.A promising youngster called Martin Early won that race.

morana

I remember my da brinign me to the finish of a race. I have vague recollection it was in Santry (Morton) stadium but it may have been in Sundrive on the track as I spoke to the great Colm Nulty and he said he was second in tha Ras and it finished on Sundrive.

buffalo

Just got Tom Daly's book. Anyone know where I might find Ray Kennedy's?

wav1

buffalo wrote: »

Just got Tom Daly's book. Anyone know where I might find Ray Kennedy's?

Im not aware of any book on the ras that ray wrote?He did write a book,and had it published about three years ago''Whiskey Legs and Woolen Jerseys'' which basically was about a cyclist Mick Palmer from Mayo.It does cover his exploits in the ras and also the grass track scene of the time.Another book was published in about 2009 which was the work of the late ras official Jim Traynor.Some friends of his finished it after his death.Unlike Dalys book its just more or less results,stats,and snippets of news on the stages as they happened.Has all the stage results from 1953 up to just before it was published.Hope this helps.
The next book could be about the legendary night stages.Couldn't write that though without libelling about 100 people[just joking]

buffalo

wav1 wrote: »

Im not aware of any book on the ras that ray wrote?He did write a book,and had it published about three years ago''Whiskey Legs and Woolen Jerseys'' which basically was about a cyclist Mick Palmer from Mayo.It does cover his exploits in the ras and also the grass track scene of the time.Another book was published in about 2009 which was the work of the late ras official Jim Traynor.Some friends of his finished it after his death.Unlike Dalys book its just more or less results,stats,and snippets of news on the stages as they happened.Has all the stage results from 1953 up to just before it was published.Hope this helps.
The next book could be about the legendary night stages.Couldn't write that though without libelling about 100 people[just joking]

hmmm... I have it on my books-to-get list: Kennedy, Ray - The Men of the Rás. If it doesn't exist that might explain why I can't find it. A quick Google says he coined the phrase "The Men of the Rás", so maybe I misread something about that little fact. oh well, time to get started on Daly!

RobFowl

wav1 wrote: »

The next book could be about the legendary night stages.Couldn't write that though without libelling about 100 people[just joking]

It's only libel if it's not true

Lazairus

Hey

Im interested to hear your thoughts on the tg4 Documentary about the Ras.

Was it a bit short? and lacking on details?


It never mentioned the reunification of Irish cycling


or the italians incident.

Personally its great to see a race as prestigious bieng recognized.


CH

Carawaystick

I thought they cut the bit about Mick Murphy of it's conclusion, I suppose there's always more they can add to any topic you know a bit about

le petit braquet

See http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056763644