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Independent Wrestling *Possible Spoilers*

  • 23-09-2012 9:39pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 2,921 ✭✭✭


    After reading through the Botchamania thread, I'm a little curious as to people's opinions of independent wrestling promotions.

    Are there any fans of indy wrestling here? I guess there are probably 4 main US indy promotions that most people have at least heard of (Chikara, CZW, Dragon Gate USA & Evolve) and they offer iPPVs on a regular basis.

    I've been checking out more and more indy stuff over the last few months and I've been really enjoying it. CZW in particular this year has had some great events.

    I've only gotten into Chikara somewhat recently and it's great fun. Completely outlandish gimmicks and some very good wrestling, couldn't ask for more really. Last weekend they had the annual King of Trios tournament which I can't wait to see once my dvds are eventually shipped :(

    For people who don't particularly like indy stuff, is there any particular reason? I'd imagine the production values could put some people off, especially if you're used to watching the more polished WWE product.

    Hopefully if people are interested in checking some of these promotions out then people could give recommendations of events to look out for.


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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 388 ✭✭sockmo


    Was only introduced to chikara very recently and it's so much fun, at times they totally take the Pisss ( slow motion matches etc...) I loved it, especially the mysterious and handsome stranger!! Love the commentary too, it's a great relief to watch wrestling that doesn't take itself too seriously.

    I've seen a few random matches of PWG and that's pretty awesome too, I'd love to get more into the indies but I can't really afford to buy every show to be honest.

    As for CZW, I hate it , idiot wrestling.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,921 ✭✭✭Cherry_Cola


    sockmo wrote: »
    I've seen a few random matches of PWG and that's pretty awesome too, I'd love to get more into the indies but I can't really afford to buy every show to be honest.

    As for CZW, I hate it , idiot wrestling.

    Oops, completely forgot PWG from the list.

    As for CZW, yeah I expected reactions like that and I can completely see where you're coming from but they have improved vastly under DJ Hyde imo. Guys like AR Fox and Sami Callihan are probably the guys to watch at the moment.

    Unfortunately it's reputation for deathmatches kinda precedes it in many cases and I think it hinders them getting a wider audience.


  • Registered Users Posts: 388 ✭✭sockmo


    Well I'm only judging CZW from the little bit I have seen.I'm sure there are some great workers,like indie guys who ove the business and put on great matches but I just find it hard to take seriously going by some of the crap I've watched.

    I always got the idea that it was just glorified backyard wrestling, Ive seen some clips where guys just couldnt give a **** about each others safety doing stupid spots,kicking barb wire into each others eyes, knives to the head and just general stupidity from rednecks who cant wrestle.Now dont get me wrong I love a bit of extreme wrestling if its done right but CZW ..It disturbs me to be honest


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,520 ✭✭✭Hashtag_HEEL


    I don't mind indy wrestling, I enjoy ROH, DG USA and $5 wrestling!
    But the production quality of some shows are awful I can't watch Chikara! However CZW is pure S###E!


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,478 ✭✭✭✭gnfnrhead


    This is one of the least interesting seasons for CHIKARA yet. I know people who are more or less CHIKARA fanboys who think this season has been boring as hell due to the lack of a real storyline. In previous seasons you've had BDK (Nexus take note!) and the 12 Large Summit, this season, pretty much nothing.

    EVOLVE and DGUSA are essentially the one company now. Same owners, same roster (mostly) and even share the titles. I used to love EVOLVE but it's pretty much just another company now.

    PWG is probably the best going today, they rarely have a bad show. Havent seen much of CZW this year but they tend to put out watchable shows at worst these days. ROH meanwhile seem to be doing everything wrong. iPPV's being the biggest problem for them excluding the budget cuts.

    I used to watch all of them and anything else I could find (SHIMMER probably the next biggest company) but I've lost interest in a lot of them and much prefere to watch a random Puro match now.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 388 ✭✭sockmo


    I dont think ROH is that bad at the moment to be honest..A lot of people on here seem to think its diabolical.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 21,296 ✭✭✭✭gimmick


    I actually have not watched any indy stuff in well over a year but that is down to my own lack of time for watching than anything else.

    I used watch ROH and PWG in particular. I never really go Chikara and DGUSA was more or less Chikara with a few Japanese guests so never took to it too much, even if it is responsible for some of the best 6 man tags I have ever seen.

    Whether I try get back into it or not I cannot tell, but will certainly dig out some old matches again.


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,478 ✭✭✭✭gnfnrhead


    sockmo wrote: »
    I dont think ROH is that bad at the moment to be honest..A lot of people on here seem to think its diabolical.

    Compared to ROH at its peak, it is. Even ROH when Tyler Black was on top was far better than now and people thought that was bad!


  • Registered Users Posts: 388 ✭✭sockmo


    Only been watching ROH for about a year, missed out on the "glory days" so I suppose i have an untainted opinion, it's good wrestling. Perhaps it's just going through a bit of an uninteresting period but that happens, just look at Wwe, it was unbearable for about 5 years ,


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,520 ✭✭✭Hashtag_HEEL


    sockmo wrote: »
    I dont think ROH is that bad at the moment to be honest..A lot of people on here seem to think its diabolical.

    To me ROH was at it's best when they had Punk,Danielson,Samoa Joe, A double,Claudio,Tyler and the like! They've lost a lot of their star power to WWE and TNA


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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,921 ✭✭✭Cherry_Cola


    The new contracts they lock people into are also turning off guys like Cabana and Generico too which doesn't help matters.

    I'm kinda glad that they've gotten Rhino back though, I've always been a fan of him.

    I just saw today that Kevin Steen just filmed an interview with SMV for the Best on the Indies series, should be a great watch.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,295 ✭✭✭jonnybadd


    Massive Chikara fanboy but only got into it this season. If this is the worst they have to offer then holy poop the BDK stuff must have been awesome. This years King of Trios must be the best, most concentrated awesomeness of professional wrestling I have ever seen. Night one alone had such an amaing mix of talent, styles and above all else fun. Team Osaka Pro againt F.I.S.T was awesome, and ECW Vs. WWF was a dream match. Have a look if you can, only about 25 bills for all three nights but well well worth it.


  • Registered Users Posts: 468 ✭✭bobby_says_hi


    UCW-Zero in Utah is surprisingly good and they recently got a TV deal. it's actually a promotion run by Martin Casaus from Tough Enough

    SHIMMER is also ridiculously awesome


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,478 ✭✭✭✭gnfnrhead


    jonnybadd wrote: »
    Massive Chikara fanboy but only got into it this season. If this is the worst they have to offer then holy poop the BDK stuff must have been awesome. This years King of Trios must be the best, most concentrated awesomeness of professional wrestling I have ever seen. Night one alone had such an amaing mix of talent, styles and above all else fun. Team Osaka Pro againt F.I.S.T was awesome, and ECW Vs. WWF was a dream match. Have a look if you can, only about 25 bills for all three nights but well well worth it.

    Not the worst as in terms of wrestling, more so in the lack of anything important going on. Usually they have a main storyline and everything build to it, there hasnt really been anything this season (at least not that I've noticed), mostly just aimlessly wandering from show to show. Almost like filler shows until they actually do something. I wouldnt say it's the worst it's ever been, it's just nowhere near as good as it was in recent seasons. It's just been average which when compared to previous seasons is pretty bad. I was surprised when I seen the aforementioned fanboys giving out about it, I thought it was just me not liking it.

    KOT is usually their best offering so I'm not surprised you liked it so much.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 16,096 ✭✭✭✭the groutch


    from what I've watched in bits and pieces of ROH recently (maybe it used to be different), but it's very bland.
    good solid wrestling, but that's it.
    no atmosphere, no decent storylines, no comic relief.

    which might be ok for the diehards, but will never get anywhere with the PG crowd or casual fan.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 23,089 ✭✭✭✭rovert


    gnfnrhead is pretty on the ball when it comes to CHIKARA. For me CHIKARA's year long, big picture have sucked since the reveal of the BDK. They have just ran out of steam before midseason, meandered and then puttered out. Case in point the Geiko storyline began super intriguing with a lot of heat but then they were jobbed over & over. This ominous group of ex-CHIKARA students were turned into a benign collection of roster members. While moaning about CHIKARA this year one of her friends told me that Sara Del Ray WAS going to win the CHIKARA Grand Championship. Once she left for WWE they kinda had nowhere to go. However despite these issues CHIKARA/booker Mike Quackenbush who is actually OCD can always be relied on to produce a pretty much an air tightly structured card for their bigger shows - King of Trios or iPPVs. CHIKARA routinely makes me happy and generates the same sense of wonderment that I had at the age of 8 watching Wrestling.

    In terms of King of Trios 2012 I really enjoyed a lot and the final was super duper satisfying. But for me it didn't compare to 2011. 2011 was far more consistent than this year's. I dislike talking about it on this level but 2011 had an unique advantage on a human interest level given that it occurred the same week as one of their ex-wrestlers and CHIKARA school students Larry Sweeney hung himself. The locker room were wrestling for Larry and trying to make sense of the terrible event. Along with that you had the dual thing of X-Pac's rehabilitation as a wrestler. Just a real heart felt event. An unreal promotion dealing with a very real tragedy.

    I am too exasperated by ROH to write anything about them so I will leave it to Dave Meltzer and last week's Wrestling Observer:
    In hindsight, this entire Sinclair Broadcasting era has been a disaster. A wrestling company owned by a television company needs to have at least production that comes across as major league, something they’ve never had. But there are also other issues. They haven’t been able to expand their fan base, and as No. 3 in the market when the genre is cold and No. 2 isn’t doing well, No. 3 is a bad place to be. And their own fan base doesn’t like that it’s not what it once was, even though what it once was also wasn’t working. Still, what it used to be was more entertaining than what it is. Plus, Kevin Steen comes across as almost an albatross. He’s by far the biggest star who is over the most and gets being a star the most, as well as talks the best. But nobody but the existing fan base is going to take a promotion seriously when they see him as the biggest star. But the fan base booed Matt Hardy, as they don’t seem to want mainstream stars, and newcomers have a very difficult time being accepted.

    PWG inhabits what ROH used to provide me which is a high end workrate company with a sense of progression featuring my favourite wrestlers and an avenue for newer wrestlers to show their stuff. Also being based in California it comes from this brighter, more creative and cooler headspace. They are always pulling out these crazy main events and multi-man matches that when they are announced make you wonder why no one had thought of it. It is also this weird no man's land where TNA, ROH and Dragon Gate wrestlers wrestle each other under the radar. However I do sympathise their shows are too exhausting and their matches are often too similar to each other.

    For all the sniggering and raised eyebrows towards their fans, after parties, the concept of Amazon wishlists the promotion probably is the most consistent when it comes to commentary, engaging characters and in ring wrestling. Their DVDs are a very easy watch.

    EVOLVE and DGUSA have good matches and great ones on top from a star rating POV but in terms of storylines they lack greatly. Also they failed to create their own fanbase to attend their shows so they piggyback other promotions shows to the matches in front of liveless crowds either that or they draw like 60 people in some function room in South Carolina which makes you wonder why am I streaming this at 4am in the morning.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 23,089 ✭✭✭✭rovert


    Another thing to follow:
    John Thorne @JohnThorneAIW
    TNA wrestlers can no longer appear on Indy DVD releases......that is going to hurt alot of peoples indy bookings

    John is the promoter of this group:
    http://www.aiwrestling.com/

    The only used to be a ban on using TNA talent on iPPVs and those DVDs sold retail. Now it is all DVDs.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,921 ✭✭✭Cherry_Cola




  • Registered Users Posts: 2,921 ✭✭✭Cherry_Cola


    Just a quick bump to let people know that Pro Wrestling Xperience will be having a show this Friday night and it's being streamed for free on highspots.tv. I think you just have to register an account with them to watch.

    It starts at 1.15am and the main event is Kevin Steen vs. Matt Hardy

    Steen cut an awesome promo on Hardy to hype the match:


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 23,089 ✭✭✭✭rovert


    *BUMP*

    For the purposes of full discloser I haven't seen any 2013 CHIKARA (yet) but they have an iPPV coming up: http://smvod.com/premium-video/chikara-june-2-2013-ippv-aniversario-never-compromise-philadelphia-pa


    CHIKARA runs in seasons like major HBO and such like dramas. It has become increasingly obvious to some like the people involved in this podcast: http://gredunzapress.com/themandibleclaw/?p=53 and then subsequent entries on this blog: http://themandibleclaw.wordpress.com/
    that this season of CHIKARA has been running on an alternative timeline.

    Even if you have never seen CHIKARA but like the Watchmen graphic novel (the primary influence it seems) and the idea of doppelgangers associated with it the podcast is worthwhile listening to as it demonstrates the level of detail possible in Wrestling. Worth noting is that the owner and booker of CHIKARA Mike Quackenbush is very open about suffering from OCD and that has always permeated his storylines.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,295 ✭✭✭jonnybadd


    I'm about 3 events behind on this season of Chikara. Been good solid wrestling so far. Thought the angles were a bit meh so far but the evidence of the alternate timeline makes it so much more interesting. Really subtly played from the start of last season to hopefully a massive payoff at this years King of Trios/finale


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,478 ✭✭✭✭gnfnrhead


    Havent watched CHIKARA properly since the BDK storyline. I just lost interest in the product as my favourites would appear less and less often.

    Cant even remember the last full show I watched...


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,921 ✭✭✭Cherry_Cola


    Must catch up on some Chikara, the only show I saw this year was the Shoulder of Pallas which I saw live and the DVD just arrived this week. Been on a CZW and PWG buzz lately so have kinda forgotten about it.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 23,089 ✭✭✭✭rovert


    Actually there's theories and actual talk that this is the last ever CHIKARA show.

    Here:
    http://freeadmissionfr.com/?p=5309


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 23,089 ✭✭✭✭rovert




  • Registered Users Posts: 12,478 ✭✭✭✭gnfnrhead


    Did anyone watch Never Compromise? A bizarre way to end an iPPV.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,295 ✭✭✭jonnybadd


    What a PPV. What matches! Crowd were a bit flat for the sarcophagus match but it was another cracker. Highlight of the night was the Devastation Corporation against the Colony but every match a winner. Even Loudspeaker vs Donst


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,478 ✭✭✭✭gnfnrhead


    I thought Ophidian vs Amasis went too long. It got boring. Shave 10 minutes off and it's much better.

    The lighting annoyed me more than it should have.

    All the upcoming CHIKARA events have seemingly been cancelled. Really going the whole way with this story!


  • Registered Users Posts: 28,790 ✭✭✭✭CastorTroy


    Watched that Chikara PPV last night. First time watching their show. What's the story behind how it ended?


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,628 ✭✭✭Ando's Saggy Bottom


    CastorTroy wrote: »
    Watched that Chikara PPV last night. First time watching their show. What's the story behind how it ended?

    Not in any way up to date or knowledgeable about Chikara but I think it might be their storyline way of changing how the company is run and launching under a new guise.

    Rovert might know more though.


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