Free Speech and Social Media (esp. in the U.K.)

Eliot Rosewater

Procrastastudy wrote: »

Burning a poppy on remembrance or armistice day is there to do one thing and one thing alone - insight a reaction and offend people.

Is this necessarily a bad thing? If I made a wooden swastika and then a video of me burning it, the purpose would be to incite a reaction and offend people, namely nazi-sympathizers - but that would hardly be such a bad thing?!

As far as I'm concerned, burning the poppy is a legitimate (if somewhat forceful) way of expressing frustration at the phony poppy-culture that grips Britain every October and November. I suppose this is the ultimate divide on the thread: you seem to be of the opinion that once a sufficiently large percentage of the population agree with something it is right for disagreeing to be made illegal?

Procrastastudy

Eliot Rosewater wrote: »

I suppose this is the ultimate divide on the thread: you seem to be of the opinion that once a sufficiently large percentage of the population agree with something it is right for disagreeing to be made illegal?

Within a framework such as the ECHR or Bunreact Na hEirann (sorry for the spelling!) yes. Sorry not disagreeing with it - the way it's disagreed with can be made illegal if agreed upon by a large enough portion of the population.

Ireland's protection of Free speech is actually exceptionally liberal in comparison to the UK.

Procrastastudy

Procrastastudy wrote: »

Nope still on the side of the Police on this on I'm afraid GVN.

Ireland is not the UK and the UK is not Ireland. You folks had the good sense to enshrine certain rights in a Constitution. The UK has no such written Constitution and has a populous that are generally happy with the legislature they way it is.

I welcome the criticism and hope the situation changes but as it stands at the moment that law is the law. Many Brits would find the ban on abortion here madness of the very highest calibre but it has to be borne in mind we are different nations.

Burning a poppy on remembrance or armistice day is there to do one thing and one thing alone - insight a reaction and offend people. If you want to protest that's fine but the UK and US lay down quite strict rules on this. Kudos to Ireand for not following suit - but again Ireland is not the UK.

I understand that, as different countries, we, in Ireland, have different laws to the U.K., the U.S., and, indeed, all other countries. I'm not arguing otherwise. I'm merely saying that I disagree with certain laws, such as the ones I've mentioned throughout this thread, in principle, regardless of where such laws are implemented, or whether they're implemented at all. It's a disagreement in principle, not a confusion over jurisdictions or a question of whether, given that such laws exist, certain actions are illegal; I understand that certain actions are illegal, I'm saying that carrying out certain actions, such as burning a poppy, or making certain remarks (e.g. the ones outlined in this thread thus far) being illegal in the first place is ridiculous. So the laws being binding in other countries is an irrelevancy to the discussion at hand.

The way I see it, it's only a stones throw from, say, the act of burning a poppy being an offence to the act of questioning government actions or policies being an offence; we should be free to disagree with certain actions, policies, or historical events, and display our disagreement however we see fit — so long as it's a peaceful protest and doesn't infringe upon another's rights, and burning a poppy is exactly this — without fear of criminal prosecution.

What harm, really, is there in burning a poppy as a form of, if perhaps naive, political protest? Who has been harmed by such an action? If nobody has been harmed, then why would a man be arrested and possibly imprisoned? It's ridiculous on every level.

Procrastastudy

gvn wrote: »

I understand that, as different countries, we, in Ireland, have different laws to the U.K., the U.S., and, indeed, all other countries. I'm not arguing otherwise. I'm merely saying that I disagree with certain laws, such as the ones I've mentioned throughout this thread, in principle, regardless of where such laws are implemented, or whether they're implemented at all. It's a disagreement in principle, not a confusion over jurisdictions or a question of whether, given that such laws exist, certain actions are illegal; I understand that certain actions are illegal, I'm saying that carrying out certain actions, such as burning a poppy, or making certain remarks (e.g. the ones outlined in this thread thus far) being illegal in the first place is ridiculous. So the laws being binding in other countries is an irrelevancy to the discussion at hand.

The way I see it, it's only a stones throw from, say, the act of burning a poppy being an offence to the act of questioning government actions or policies being an offence; we should be free to disagree with certain actions, policies, or historical events, and display our disagreement however we see fit — so long as it's a peaceful protest and doesn't infringe upon another's rights, and burning a poppy is exactly this — without fear of criminal prosecution.

What harm, really, is there in burning a poppy as a form of, if perhaps naive, political protest? Who has been harmed by such an action? If nobody has been harmed, then why would a man be arrested and possibly imprisoned? It's ridiculous on every level.

I understand and agree with many of your points. I just worry that people sometimes don't understand that different cultural values. In Ireland it would be totally wrong to arrest someone on the same charge - but the UK... I take your point though about it not being relevant but add, lastly, that many counties have laws like this... denying the holocaust for example.

In all honesty most of these laws are pretty daft in my view but then I have some odd views.

Procrastastudy

Also - sorry I forgot I'm preparing for a debate tomorrow and procrastinating - it wasn't that he burned the poppy it was that he posted it on Facebook. Which goes back to my argument that it's not so much Free-speech that is being regulated but Facebook.

I realise my arguments haven;t been posted in the most logical or convincing way. Here's hoping I'm better tomorrow

Balian

Free speech is not allowed on boards.ie. I just got a ban from a forum for sticking up for myself after I had been bullied by the mod there. Bloody nazis they are like

Eliot Rosewater

Balian wrote: »

Free speech is not allowed on boards.ie. I just got a ban from a forum for sticking up for myself after I had been bullied by the mod there. Bloody nazis they are like

If you've a problem with moderation, contact the mod in question or set up a Dispute Resolution thread. Coming on to Humanities and calling the mod a "bloody nazi" is against the forum charter and will earn you an infraction or ban the next time.

ER.