Badminton peg board alternative or app

thegeist

Hi,

I am just wondering if anyone knows of an alternative method to the standard peg board system used widely in clubs across the country. The main reason is that newcomers are reluctant to select other players using this system which wastes time, especially on busy nights. I am mainly interested in a software package or phone app that will do the same job automatically and quickly. Any assistance will be greatly appreciated.

Regards.

g0g

thegeist wrote: »

Hi,

I am just wondering if anyone knows of an alternative method to the standard peg board system used widely in clubs across the country. The main reason is that newcomers are reluctant to select other players using this system which wastes time, especially on busy nights. I am mainly interested in a software package or phone app that will do the same job automatically and quickly. Any assistance will be greatly appreciated.

Regards.

Think you'd be a very popular person in a lot of clubs if you could figure ot the answer to that one! Honestly I think there are too many permutations to make it something easy to run on a computer.The best method is for one person to organise all the games each night and not play themselves. This person should be reasonably experienced at "doing the board".

Consider:
1) Grade
2) Men vs Women
3) Mixed vs Doubles
4) How many games each person has already played
5) Who each person is on league teams with
6) Fitness (i.e. not wanting too many games in a row)
7) Potentially keeping people in different games if they have a habit of fighting!
8) Avoiding games with too wide a grade spread
etc etc the list goes on

madbadfan

I have to agree with thegeist on this one. There must be some work shift rotation software that can be altered easily to produce a useable pegboard system which would reduce human input and blame on the night?

Tweeter

I'm a software engineer and a member of St Brigids badminton club in South Dublin.
I have regularly considered the application of software to this problem.
Well a couple of weeks ago I stopped considering and started writing a program to automate this system.
Development is at an advanced stage (I reckon about 75% complete), and I'm hoping to have it ready for inital testing by next week.
I'm 100% confident that enough intelligence can be built in to ensure that it does a far better job than any human could do, e.g it won't forget if you sat out, or it won't put a level 1 player against a level 10 player, to give just a very quick example.
I'll keep you posted. If it works out well (no reason why it shouldn't) then I'll approach Leinster badminton with a view to rolling it out to all clubs who want it,

regards,
Tweeter

madbadfan

Hi Tweeter, Just wondering how you are getting with your peg board project. I would love to see it in action. Let me know if you are running with in St Brigids. I would to try it in Lucan Badminton club if you want to try further testing. Good Luck

Tweeter

madbadfan wrote: »

Hi Tweeter, Just wondering how you are getting with your peg board project. I would love to see it in action. Let me know if you are running with in St Brigids. I would to try it in Lucan Badminton club if you want to try further testing. Good Luck

Thanks for the interest, and the offer of further testing.
I slightly underestimated the complexity of the decision process and I've also tried to make the application as configurable as possible.

I'm also trying to make the decision rules configurable, which is adding a lot of complexity to the coding. However having said that it's coming along nicely.

I had hoped to have a version ready for testing by now, however I'm writing this in my spare time, and other things take priority on occassion.
I was on holidays all of last week, so I'll be looking to get cracking at it again this week.

How many courts do you have in Lucan, and roughly how many members do you have?

tipper1

Tweeter wrote: »

Thanks for the interest, and the offer of further testing.
I slightly underestimated the complexity of the decision process and I've also tried to make the application as configurable as possible.

I'm also trying to make the decision rules configurable, which is adding a lot of complexity to the coding. However having said that it's coming along nicely.

I had hoped to have a version ready for testing by now, however I'm writing this in my spare time, and other things take priority on occassion.
I was on holidays all of last week, so I'll be looking to get cracking at it again this week.

How many courts do you have in Lucan, and roughly how many members do you have?

Tweeter it would be a great help for clubs if you can manage this. Don't forget Munster Badminton if offering it out and we have a 4-court hall which i can test it on if you wish. I can PM you any contacts you might need. Best of luck with it.

g0g

Very interested in hearing how your application turns out. Is this a PC application or are you developing for Windows Mobile / Android / iOS? I play in Bray - 4 courts/50 members and might be able to help with testing.

Tweeter

Here's an update on where it's at.

It's very nearly code complete and ready for testing, but I also want to write a detailed guide explaining what criteria are used for selecting. Some of these selection criteria rules are configurable within the application.

The problem I'm having at the moment is getting the time to finish it off. I always seem to be busy with one thing or another for some reason. If I can get a few free evenings I'll be able to finish it off and release it for testing.

It's currently a windows desktop application. If there's any interest in it when its completed, I'll take a look at porting it to android/windows mobile as an app if people can see any benefit in this. I won't ever consider porting it for an apple device, just so you know (don't ask why).

I'll issue a further update when I have one, and many thanks for the offers to test, I'll keep you updated on that one too,

regards,
Tweeter

g0g

Tweeter wrote: »

Here's an update on where it's at.

It's very nearly code complete and ready for testing, but I also want to write a detailed guide explaining what criteria are used for selecting. Some of these selection criteria rules are configurable within the application.

The problem I'm having at the moment is getting the time to finish it off. I always seem to be busy with one thing or another for some reason. If I can get a few free evenings I'll be able to finish it off and release it for testing.

It's currently a windows desktop application. If there's any interest in it when its completed, I'll take a look at porting it to android/windows mobile as an app if people can see any benefit in this. I won't ever consider porting it for an apple device, just so you know (don't ask why).

I'll issue a further update when I have one, and many thanks for the offers to test, I'll keep you updated on that one too,

regards,
Tweeter

Great news, I always worry when people mention "apps" that they're automatically thinking iPhone version, so I'm delighted to hear it'll be for other formats. A windows version would be ideal to be able to run on a netbook. Look forward to hearing when it's finished!

tipper1

Great stuff. An app would be great but I'm sure clubs could make an development work for them.

Tweeter

Latest update.

Only getting back to this now (lost interest for a while, finishing post in site and all that).
I've done some further coding around the rules logic and it's now ready for my own initial testing. There'll be plenty of teething problems I'm sure, but I'd like to iron out as many of these before I ask anyone else to do testing with it.

Also I've started, but not yet completed the documentation for it. I'd also like this to be in place too before I ask anyone else to test.

Further updates to follow,

regards,
Mark.

Tweeter

Latest.

The testing has been going very well recently. Lots of minor issues and unintended circumstances at first, but all of these issues have now been fixed and testing is going very well now.

I'm more than impressed with the way it's performing.

There's a committee meeting in the club next Tuesday evening (26th March) where I've been invited to demo the software and explain the rules I've implemented into the process.

I'd be hoping that they agree to immediately begin trialling the software which can now manage the peg board for the evening unaided (and better than any human could do).

I'll let you know the outcome of the meeting and demo next Wednesday,

regards,
Mark.

g0g

Tweeter wrote: »

Latest.

The testing has been going very well recently. Lots of minor issues and unintended circumstances at first, but all of these issues have now been fixed and testing is going very well now.

I'm more than impressed with the way it's performing.

There's a committee meeting in the club next Tuesday evening (26th March) where I've been invited to demo the software and explain the rules I've implemented into the process.

I'd be hoping that they agree to immediately begin trialling the software which can now manage the peg board for the evening unaided (and better than any human could do).

I'll let you know the outcome of the meeting and demo next Wednesday,

regards,
Mark.

Delighted to hear the idea is still alive and look forward to hearing how you get on with the testing! I'd say there's no shortage of others on here who'd be eager to test it too!

smallgarden

anything which takes out the awkwardness and tension that a peg board can create is always welcome

Tweeter

Latest.

Done the demo for the committee last night and they absolutely loved it.
We more or less simulated an entire club nights play, and it performed superbly.

A few suggestions and agreements were made which I'll be implementing over the next few days.

Then we're going to use it on our club night next Tuesday night (2nd April), and I'll give you an update on how that goes on the Wednesday.

g0g (If I've got the correct person), you were talking to my sister regarding trying it out in Nomads. No problem, I'll go through my sister (rather than on here), so you should have it very soon,

regards,
Mark.

Wise Old Elf

If your software goes down well over the next few weeks, you should consider selling/licensing it to BI.
I'm in a club in Limerick (I used to be in St. Raphaela's, up the road from ye) which desperately needs something like this, and I'm sure we'd be willing to contribute.
Well done and best of luck with using it.

Tweeter

The automated board system got its first live outing last night.

There was a small glitch early in the evening and one genuine bug surfaced about half way through the evening, but luckily there was a workaround for this and I was able to keep it running for the entire evening.

Other than that it was a huge success, with lots of positive comments. Everyone seemed happy with the selections it made, and no one had to give up their evenings play to do board duty. Best of all was the fairness of the system, which was the most pleasing. Human error has been eradicated.

They've agreed to use it for the rest of the season (so twice a week for the next month and a bit) which should result in a solid stable solution ready for the new season after the summer break.

I've already got the bug fixed, so it should be even better on Thursday when we'll use it again,

regards,
Mark.

Tweeter

Disco Stuart wrote: »

If your software goes down well over the next few weeks, you should consider selling/licensing it to BI.
I'm in a club in Limerick (I used to be in St. Raphaela's, up the road from ye) which desperately needs something like this, and I'm sure we'd be willing to contribute.
Well done and best of luck with using it.

Offer duly noted, I'll be in touch,

regards,
Mark.

Tweeter

We had a really busy night in the club on Tuesday, there was over 30 players there and to top it off we were down to 3 courts, however the system behaved perfectly and at the end of the evening everyone had a similar playing percentage, so it was very very fair.
It's being extremely well received, and everyone seems to be very happy with it, and happy with the mixture of games they're getting. I've added in a few small enhancements here and there based on the very positive feedback that I've received.
It's very nearly a perfect system now,

regards,
Mark.

g0g

Tweeter wrote: »

We had a really busy night in the club on Tuesday, there was over 30 players there and to top it off we were down to 3 courts, however the system behaved perfectly and at the end of the evening everyone had a similar playing percentage, so it was very very fair.
It's being extremely well received, and everyone seems to be very happy with it, and happy with the mixture of games they're getting. I've added in a few small enhancements here and there based on the very positive feedback that I've received.
It's very nearly a perfect system now,

regards,
Mark.

Out of curiosity does it handle these types of things:
1) Partnerships who play on teams together
2) People who might show up later in the night
3) People who have a preference towards mixed or doubles
4) If someone manually overrides it (option?) to give for example a team some practice does it note what those games were and continue on for the rest of the night as normal?

Tweeter

g0g wrote: »

Out of curiosity does it handle these types of things:
1) Partnerships who play on teams together
2) People who might show up later in the night
3) People who have a preference towards mixed or doubles
4) If someone manually overrides it (option?) to give for example a team some practice does it note what those games were and continue on for the rest of the night as normal?

1) Yes it does
2) Yes it does
3) No, but it does try where possible to make sure you get more doubles games than mixed, this is a configurable option which we currently have set at 2:1 i.e. one mixed game for every 2 doubles games
4) Yes it does

There is options within for giving preference to people who play on the same team. There is also an option to leave yourself out for one pick if you're targeting particular players to play against,

regards,
Mark.

A2LUE42

Tweeter wrote: »

1) Yes it does
2) Yes it does
3) No, but it does try where possible to make sure you get more doubles games than mixed, this is a configurable option which we currently have set at 2:1 i.e. one mixed game for every 2 doubles games
4) Yes it does

There is options within for giving preference to people who play on the same team. There is also an option to leave yourself out for one pick if you're targeting particular players to play against,

regards,
Mark.

Sounds great. Would love to see it in action.

Tweeter

Latest

We had our clubs AGM last night and thankfully their was a huge majority vote in favour of adopting the system as the standard.
The system is now the standard in St Brigids badminton club.
I'd like one or possibly two more clubs to trial it before I market it for sale.
Disco Stuart and A2LUE42, I've sent you PM's,

regards,
Mark.

A2LUE42

Tweeter wrote: »

Latest

We had our clubs AGM last night and thankfully their was a huge majority vote in favour of adopting the system as the standard.
The system is now the standard in St Brigids badminton club.
I'd like one or possibly two more clubs to trial it before I market it for sale.
Disco Stuart and A2LUE42, I've sent you PM's,

regards,
Mark.

Have replied with contact details.

smallgarden

hello tweeter,great to hear how successful its going,im in a relatively new club of about 30members in dublin if you need more clubs to test it out

squareboy007

Tweeter wrote: »

Latest

We had our clubs AGM last night and thankfully their was a huge majority vote in favour of adopting the system as the standard.
The system is now the standard in St Brigids badminton club.
I'd like one or possibly two more clubs to trial it before I market it for sale.
Disco Stuart and A2LUE42, I've sent you PM's,

regards,
Mark.

I'm on the committee in St. Brigids and I just wanted to backup everything Mark is saying.
So far the system has worked a treat and all concerned are very pleased with the games people are getting.

otivaeey

I have been to a badminton club in London which used Microsoft Access on a laptop sitting on a table, which pegged perfectly and categorised players quickly into the games. Everyone before play had to receive instruction from the programme, and after play had to key in their scores. The organiser wrote the program but he told me he still couldn't perfect it with a last bit yet before he could share it out with me. He told me the last bit was to look for coding on other framework so as to facilitate interoperability between OSes..?? Layman me.

Seriously, if a pegboard system for badminton or tennis can be written with Microsoft Access (is it Macro?), then with some effort, someone could make it into an app for iOS and android and earn some cash. How even more wonderful if he/she could distribute the software as freeware...that could be the biggest gift to the badminton community, celebrated by all the badminton countries around the world.

Or else, can someone simply hire a programmer online from many many many various websites like Liveperson.com... for ~$30 to write a simple Java programme and if not mind sharing it out?

Or maybe wait for another 10 years when we can get our robot AI butler to programme for us for free

Tweeter

otivaeey wrote: »

He told me the last bit was to look for coding on other framework so as to facilitate interoperability between OSes..?? Layman me.

This makes no sense, if it was complete then it was complete, interoperabiltity is irrelevant.

otivaeey wrote: »

simply hire a programmer online from many many many various websites like Liveperson.com... for ~$30 to write a simple Java programme and if not mind sharing it out?

Laughable to say the least. Out of curiousity where did you get the 30 dollar figure from? And how much development time do you think this would buy? And what brief would you give the programmer who will most likely know nothing about badminton and peg board systems?

You registered an account just to put up this post, what point are you trying to make?

regards,
Mark.

otivaeey

Tweeter wrote: »

This makes no sense, if it was complete then it was complete, interoperabiltity is irrelevant.



Laughable to say the least. Out of curiousity where did you get the 30 dollar figure from? And how much development time do you think this would buy? And what brief would you give the programmer who will most likely know nothing about badminton and peg board systems?

You registered an account just to put up this post, what point are you trying to make?

regards,
Mark.

Well, if a computer programmer talked to a layman, what do you think was the level of explanation for the conversation pitched at? Advanced or layman?

Development time = 1 hour or longer, given good pre-laid instructions to the programmer. Price is relative to the development time ethically speaking. The customer tells the programmer the flow diagram of the pegboard. Herein, I ain't undermining the software development of such pegboard, that depends on how well it's perfected. However I'm sure I was told by the organiser he spent some hours on it out of his freetime. And from what I saw, the software worked flawlessly on Microsoft Access.

I have to tell you I depicted my intention clearly in my previous comment. The forum is communal, so I shouldn't be inhibited from posting my thoughts, even as a NEW registered user. Given the preconception about me, I have to make myself clear I'm equally serious about this topic. This ain't about the Tweeter guy, and there's nothing laughable.

smallgarden

Hows the progress going on this, fingers crossed for it to be available for next season!

Tweeter

smallgarden wrote: »

Hows the progress going on this, fingers crossed for it to be available for next season!

Progress is good, I would have liked another one or two clubs to test it before the season ended, however I think the timing turned out to be perfect in the end.

There was minor adjustments after each club night for the first few nights, and thankfully there was one outstanding issue which I had a lot of trouble getting to the bottom of, now resolved. It's as near perfect as possible (for our club anyway).

It will definitely be ready for the new season, and as I said previously our club has already voted it in as the standard,

regards,
Mark.

smallgarden

Thats great to hear.Have you plans to make it available to other clubs or are you still figuring that out as I'd say our club would be interested,obviously depending on the cost of it

Tweeter

smallgarden wrote: »

Thats great to hear.Have you plans to make it available to other clubs or are you still figuring that out as I'd say our club would be interested,obviously depending on the cost of it

I do have plans to make it fully available. I haven't fully worked out costs as of yet (but I will be looking to make a return on the significant time and effort I've put into this). I'll probably have 2 licence types for sale, one for small clubs and one for medium to large clubs. However even the more expensive licence will still be below 50 euro (possibly even below 40) and the cheaper licence probably just over half that amount.

It wil partly depend on the costs for setting up and hosting a website where the software can be downloaded and the licences purchased online.

I am trying to make sure that the cost is low enough so as not to be a factor when a club is considering purchasing it (i.e less than the price of 2 boxes of shuttles),

regards,
Mark.

mkm_player

Tweeter, how about you make a time-limited demo like many applications are released.
Say it will work for 2 months. It will take at least that long for any club to get used to it and see whether it suites them or not. Most clubs usually play 1 or 2 nights a week - so we're talking on average 8-10 uses before they have to buy a serial# (I'm assuming that's how you are going to activate it) from you.

I am personally interested to see if I can get our club to test this system as well.

Tweeter

mkm_player wrote: »

Tweeter, how about you make a time-limited demo like many applications are released.
Say it will work for 2 months. It will take at least that long for any club to get used to it and see whether it suites them or not. Most clubs usually play 1 or 2 nights a week - so we're talking on average 8-10 uses before they have to buy a serial# (I'm assuming that's how you are going to activate it) from you.

I am personally interested to see if I can get our club to test this system as well.

You're correct and I will be allowing for this scenario. I'm putting together a website for it at the moment, where you'll be able to download a trial version. The trial period will be for 3 months, which I think is plenty of time to see if it suits a club.

As a matter of interest does anybody think the trial period should be longer than 3 months?

I haven't fully considered what to charge yet after the trial period expires, but I'm now thinking that it will be less than 30 euro and I'll try and make sure I can stick to this,

regards,
Mark.

g0g

Tweeter wrote: »

You're correct and I will be allowing for this scenario. I'm putting together a website for it at the moment, where you'll be able to download a trial version. The trial period will be for 3 months, which I think is plenty of time to see if it suits a club.

As a matter of interest does anybody think the trial period should be longer than 3 months?

I haven't fully considered what to charge yet after the trial period expires, but I'm now thinking that it will be less than 30 euro and I'll try and make sure I can stick to this,

regards,
Mark.

3 months sounds more than reasonable to me anyway! There are a lot of summer clubs running now that might be useful for guineapigs, although attendees might vary greatly from night to night.

Is your plan to "launch" it on time for the 13/14 season?

Tweeter

g0g wrote: »

Is your plan to "launch" it on time for the 13/14 season?

Yes, that is indeed the plan,

regards,
Mark.

mkm_player

Are you planning to release a time limited demo (which can never by activated to full version) or one where you can activate it by entering a serial #?

Why don't you just release the software for everyone to demo and iron out more bugs as they provide you with feedback. There is a good chance that as a more diverse group of people start testing it, they will come across various issues that may not have been caught by a smaller test group.

This will still give you 3 months to figure out the price - and the website.

Tweeter wrote: »

You're correct and I will be allowing for this scenario. I'm putting together a website for it at the moment, where you'll be able to download a trial version. The trial period will be for 3 months, which I think is plenty of time to see if it suits a club.

As a matter of interest does anybody think the trial period should be longer than 3 months?

I haven't fully considered what to charge yet after the trial period expires, but I'm now thinking that it will be less than 30 euro and I'll try and make sure I can stick to this,

regards,
Mark.

Tweeter

mkm_player wrote: »

Are you planning to release a time limited demo (which can never by activated to full version) or one where you can activate it by entering a serial #?

Why don't you just release the software for everyone to demo and iron out more bugs as they provide you with feedback. There is a good chance that as a more diverse group of people start testing it, they will come across various issues that may not have been caught by a smaller test group.

This will still give you 3 months to figure out the price - and the website.

The trial software can be fully activated if a licence is purchased.

Release to everyone how??
Burn a load of CD's and post them??

I need a mechanism to "Release to everyone" i.e. somewhere you can go to download it. The website is very nearly complete now, and I hope to have it up (so you can at least download the trial version) within a few weeks.

If anyone would like it sooner, then you can send me a stamped addressed envelope and I'll send you a CD.

What club are you in by the way? How many courts? And how many members?

regards,
Mark.

mkm_player

Tweeter wrote: »

The trial software can be fully activated if a licence is purchased.

Release to everyone how??
Burn a load of CD's and post them??

I need a mechanism to "Release to everyone" i.e. somewhere you can go to download it. The website is very nearly complete now, and I hope to have it up (so you can at least download the trial version) within a few weeks.

If anyone would like it sooner, then you can send me a stamped addressed envelope and I'll send you a CD.

What club are you in by the way? How many courts? And how many members?

regards,
Mark.

The easiest way is to use the cloud services like Dropbox, Google Drive, etc. You can upload the software and then share the link either here or your website.
The free account on any of these cloud services should give you plenty of space for your purpose. (Dropbox=2GB / Google Drive=15GB / SkyDrive=7GB)

I am actually from Canada.
We have a long running club based in a high school gym. 6 courts and about 70 - 80 members.

Tweeter

mkm_player wrote: »

We have a long running club based in a high school gym. 6 courts and about 70 - 80 members.

I'd be very interested in it being tested in this environment.
All going well, it'll be available to everyone for download within a few weeks,

regards,
Mark.

mkm_player

Tweeter wrote: »

I'd be very interested in it being tested in this environment.
All going well, it'll be available to everyone for download within a few weeks,

regards,
Mark.

Remember to promote it on BadmintonCentral.com
Good chance that you will get a lot of response from there.

Good Luck!

Tweeter

Update.

I've bought the domain and a web hosting package, so it'll be available for download very shortly now.
I'm currently doing a few improvements to the look and feel, so when I'm happy that the changes are complete and tested, I'll swith the website on,

regards,
Mark.

Dominic Lim

Tweeter wrote: »

Update.

I've bought the domain and a web hosting package, so it'll be available for download very shortly now.
I'm currently doing a few improvements to the look and feel, so when I'm happy that the changes are complete and tested, I'll swith the website on,

regards,
Mark.

Hi! Looking forward to your new website! Willing to try your software but doubt its enough for my usage. I am managing a 39 badminton court and 14 futsal pitch!

Tweeter

Dominic Lim wrote: »

Hi! Looking forward to your new website! Willing to try your software but doubt its enough for my usage. I am managing a 39 badminton court and 14 futsal pitch!

Correct, it's for badminton clubs only and not for managing large sports halls,

regards,
Mark.

Tweeter

My apologies for the delay. I developed the software on windows xp, however I had some unforseen issues with windows 7, which I've only just resolved.

Anyway if you visit www.badboard.net it's all there,

regards,
Mark.

ilikerei

Tweeter wrote: »

My apologies for the delay. I developed the software on windows xp, however I had some unforseen issues with windows 7, which I've only just resolved.

Anyway if you visit www.badboard.net it's all there,

regards,
Mark.

You are the man! That's pretty cool.

balkanhawk

Downloaded it last night and it seems very good. Great job.
I'll hopefully run a trial in our club over the next few weeks.

Tweeter

Hi all,

latest update is that I've just released a new version of the software. If you have a previous version installed I'd urge you to download and install this new upgraded version.

I developed the software on windows xp, and there has been some unforseen issues on windows 7 which are now hopefully fully addressed.

Full details on the website,

regards,
Mark.

Tweeter

Hi All,

latest version now caters for clubs with up to 16 courts, as I know some overseas players on here require this.

http://www.badboard.net

if you'd like to download it and give it a try,

regards,
Tweeter