Difficult Landlord

EmeraldWolf

Hey guys,

I have an issue at the moment with my landlord. Last night we had a surprise party for one of our housemates. We had informed our neighbours of this party and that we said we would leave at 23:00 as they requested. It is the first party we have had in the new house.


At around 22:35 last night our neighbours knocked on the door saying, we were violating there sleeping pattern and trying to keep them up all night. We attempted discussion with them but they refused to listen to anything that we had to say to them. We weren't overly loud and no one else seemed to mind.



They proceed to call our Landlord who arrived fairly promptly. She refused to listen to our side of the story and sided entirely with our neighbours and we now have a month notice and are losing our deposit.
Whereas I don't want to stay on, living there with those neighbours or having her as a landlord. I do not wish to lose my deposit because of a one-sided discussion in which our landlord refused to listen to our side of the story.


I was hoping to gain some advice about how to deal with my current situation?


Regards,
Alex

ANXIOUS

EmeraldWolf wrote: »

Hey guys,

I have an issue at the moment with my landlord. Last night we had a surprise party for one of our housemates. We had informed our neighbours of this party and that we said we would leave at 23:00 as they requested. It is the first party we have had in the new house.


At around 22:35 last night our neighbours knocked on the door saying, we were violating there sleeping pattern and trying to keep them up all night. We attempted discussion with them but they refused to listen to anything that we had to say to them. We weren't overly loud and no one else seemed to mind.



They proceed to call our Landlord who arrived fairly promptly. She refused to listen to our side of the story and sided entirely with our neighbours and we now have a month notice and are losing our deposit.
Whereas I don't want to stay on, living there with those neighbours or having her as a landlord. I do not wish to lose my deposit because of a one-sided discussion in which our landlord refused to listen to our side of the story.


I was hoping to gain some advice about how to deal with my current situation?


Regards,
Alex

Just don't pay last months rent simple.

leeomurchu

A party on a Monday night :eek: You were asking for trouble there what was wrong with having it at the weekend?

Anyway she can evict you provided she's given you notice you'll have to look through your tenancy agreement and see if there's any mention of parties or loud noise being a breech of contract.

The tenancy laws tend to favour the tenant these days so you'll probably get your deposit back. Report it to the PRTB and let your land lord know you'll be taking it to them unless she returns your deposit.

EmeraldWolf

Thought of that, already paid unfortunately! thanks though!

leeomurchu

ANXIOUS wrote: »

Just don't pay last months rent simple.

Don't do that as she can go after you for the full 12 months rent then and you'll be in the wrong.

EmeraldWolf

leeomurchu wrote: »

A part on a Monday night :eek: You were asking for trouble there what was wrong with having it at the weekend?

Anyway she can evict you provided she's given you notice you'll have to look through your tenancy agreement and see if there's any mention of parties or loud noise being a breech of contract.

The tenancy laws tend to favour the tenant these days so you'll probably get your deposit back. Report it to the PRTB and let your land lord know you'll be taking it to them unless she returns your deposit.

Thanks leeomurchu for the sound advice Ill probally do that! Also it was her brithday last night that's why it was on a monday.

Doop

Write her a letter or a text explaining your side of the story, and advise her if she with holds the deposit you'll lodge a case with the PRTB.
Alternatively offer to leave quietly at the end of the month with the deposit refunded, and leave the place clean and tidy... (no point adding fuel to the fire)

sunnysoutheast

EmeraldWolf wrote: »

Hey guys,

I have an issue at the moment with my landlord. Last night we had a surprise party for one of our housemates. We had informed our neighbours of this party and that we said we would leave at 23:00 as they requested. It is the first party we have had in the new house.


At around 22:35 last night our neighbours knocked on the door saying, we were violating there sleeping pattern and trying to keep them up all night. We attempted discussion with them but they refused to listen to anything that we had to say to them. We weren't overly loud and no one else seemed to mind.



They proceed to call our Landlord who arrived fairly promptly. She refused to listen to our side of the story and sided entirely with our neighbours and we now have a month notice and are losing our deposit.
Whereas I don't want to stay on, living there with those neighbours or having her as a landlord. I do not wish to lose my deposit because of a one-sided discussion in which our landlord refused to listen to our side of the story.


I was hoping to gain some advice about how to deal with my current situation?


Regards,
Alex

What sort of lease agreement do you have and how many months into it are you?

I'd also ask whether there is any back story to this, i.e. have there been any previous complaints/warnings/arguments with neighbours before etc.

If you can clarify that people would be better placed to offer advice!

EmeraldWolf

There was no previous complaints by neighbours. This was the first instance.And we are 18 days into a 12 month lease agreement!

ResearchWill

EmeraldWolf wrote: »

There was no previous complaints by neighbours. This was the first instance.And we are 18 days into a 12 month lease agreement!

It sounds like your landlord has maybe had a bad experience before, with a previous tenant. Call to neighbour with box of chocs and bottle of wine and say sorry. Then contact landlord and explain that if she wishes to evict you, it will leave you in the unfortunate position of having to seek legal advice, but you would rather put relationship back on a good footing and would like to stay where you are.

sunnysoutheast

EmeraldWolf wrote: »

There was no previous complaints by neighbours. This was the first instance.And we are 18 days into a 12 month lease agreement!

That being so I don't believe she can evict you legally after a one-off incident before 11PM. Has she put the eviction notice in writing?

I think Doop's advice is spot-on, depending on whether you want to stay or not.

leeomurchu

sunnysoutheast wrote: »

That being so I don't believe she can evict you legally after a one-off incident before 11PM. Has she put the eviction notice in writing?

I think Doop's advice is spot-on, depending on whether you want to stay or not.

She can if it's in the tenancy agreement it could be under a number of things,
complaints,parties, if she's had a bad experience before you can be sure she's had a clause included somewhere.

sunnysoutheast

leeomurchu wrote: »

She can if it's in the tenancy agreement it could be under a number of things,
complaints,parties, if she's had a bad experience before you can be sure she's had a clause included somewhere.

As I understand it the act allows the landlord to terminate the lease agreement for an unremedied breach of covenant such as nuisance or antisocial behaviour. I doubt that eviction for a one-off social occasion before 11 would stand up to scrutiny by the PRTB and I can see no justification for retention of the deposit.

Gary The Gamer

You have a 12 month lease. Your landlord is bound by this and will have an impossible time claiming anti social behaviour. Why would he keep your deposit? I'd make life very difficult for someone like that.

leeomurchu

sunnysoutheast wrote: »

As I understand it the act allows the landlord to terminate the lease agreement for an unremedied breach of covenant such as nuisance or antisocial behaviour. I doubt that eviction for a one-off social occasion before 11 would stand up to scrutiny by the PRTB and I can see no justification for retention of the deposit.

If you breach any tenancy agreement for whatever reason the landlord has the right to retain his deposit albeit a bit extreme in this case. The landlord could very well pursue you for the money owing on a 12 month tenancy agreement that was breached although unlikely as this is usually the case when the tenant leaves without notice before the end of agreement.

With regard an antisocial behaviour clause it will come down to how it's included in the agreement it may not even be there which would mean she's has no reason for terminating contract and evicting the tenant while retaining his deposit.

There are legal steps in place that the land lord has to follow to evict a tenant I can't remember them off hand but it'll be something along the lines of verbal and written warnings for breach of agreement. It's all gonna come down to the agreement the OP has with his landlord.

The best thing if you want to stay there would be to state your case and see it doesn't happen again but as I was saying the tenancy laws are strongly in favour of tenants these days so it'll be unlikely you'll lose your deposit.

She may not even be registered with the PRTB which would be great in your case because it'll allow you to throw the book at her regarding undeclared earnings and failing to register a tenancy agreement plus all the charges associated with a second investment property she'd be failing to declare make sure she's fully aware you're going to pursue her for return of your deposit

djimi

As youre on a 12 month contract my advise would be to inform your landlord that if she proceed with the eviction you will be taking a case against her with the PRTB, where illegal evictions usually result in the tenant getting awarded a payout of many thousands from the landlord.

Despite the fact that you really should not be having parties on a Monday night regardless of whos birthday it was, and in fairness to your neighbour they were within their rights to complain to you, one noise complaint is not sufficient to enforce an anti-social behaviour eviction, and even if the landlord wanted to go to proceed with such an eviction there is a process which she must follow to the letter. Turning up at your house and informing you that you have a month to leave is completely illegal.

djimi

leeomurchu wrote: »

If you breach any tenancy agreement for whatever reason the landlord has the right to retain his deposit albeit a bit extreme in this case. The landlord could very well pursue you for the money owing on a 12 month tenancy agreement that was breached although unlikely as this is usually the case when the tenant leaves without notice before the end of agreement.

With regard an antisocial behaviour clause it will come down to how it's included in the agreement it may not even be there which would mean she's has no reason for terminating contract and evicting the tenant while retaining his deposit.

One isolated noise complaint from one neighbour is not anti-social behaviour, and it would not be enough to constitute a breach of the lease unless it was a week long bender with hundreds of people coming and going with loud music blaring 24/7! A simple warning the first time would have been sufficient; from the neighbour initially or from the landlord if they must get involved.

leeomurchu

djimi wrote: »

One isolated noise complaint from one neighbour is not anti-social behaviour, and it would not be enough to constitute a breach of the lease unless it was a week long bender with hundreds of people coming and going with loud music blaring 24/7! A simple warning the first time would have been sufficient; from the neighbour initially or from the landlord if they must get involved.

It is if it's written into the tenancy agreement that there's to be no parties during the working week or any complaints received from neighbours will be deemed a breach of said agreement and result in eviction.

It's all about the wording in his contract unless we get a chance to read it we may aswell be tapping our finger tips on the wall.

areyawell

It should just be a warning not too let it happen again unless something happened before. Are the walls paper thin or something or did you have music blaring? Tell the Landlord you are contacting the PRTB or whatever its called and will be taking the issue up in court as usually its three written warnings and then a dismissal. Also take a dump and put it in your neighbours letter box when you are leaving.

djimi

leeomurchu wrote: »

It is if it's written into the tenancy agreement that there's to be no parties during the working week or any complaints received from neighbours will be deemed a breach of said agreement and result in eviction.

It's all about the wording in his contract unless we get a chance to read it we may aswell be tapping our finger tips on the wall.

Even if such a clause existed in a contract I doubt it would have much legal standing anyway; the landlord cannot determine what constitutes anti-social and what would be a legal eviction, and just because they write it into a lease does not mean that it actually means anything legally. If they tried to go through with the eviction and the tenant took a case with the PRTB then chance are the PRTB would still rule against the landlord unless there was evidence of persistant and/or severe anti-social behaviour.

odds_on

leeomurchu wrote: »

It is if it's written into the tenancy agreement that there's to be no parties during the working week or any complaints received from neighbours will be deemed a breach of said agreement and result in eviction.

It's all about the wording in his contract unless we get a chance to read it we may aswell be tapping our finger tips on the wall.

Before any eviction notice can be valid a tenant (or landlord) must be given the opportunity to remedy and breach of obligations, whether it is a breach of the Residential Tenancies Act 2004 or any special clauses in a lease agreement. Any clauses in a lease agreement which go contrary to the RTA are invalid.

leeomurchu

djimi wrote: »

Even if such a clause existed in a contract I doubt it would have much legal standing anyway; the landlord cannot determine what constitutes anti-social and what would be a legal eviction, and just because they write it into a lease does not mean that it actually means anything legally. If they tried to go through with the eviction and the tenant took a case with the PRTB then chance are the PRTB would still rule against the landlord unless there was evidence of persistant and/or severe anti-social behaviour.

Are you not just reiterating my point about the tenancy laws being strongly in favour of the tenant? We could play this merry dance all night

the agreement between landlord and tenant is legally binding if the landlord has added clauses the tenant should've been made aware of these.

Yes it's harsh what's happened.

Yes I do think he will get his deposit returned to him.

Yes I do think a party on a Monday night was ill advised.

And finally for those in the cheap seats we've no idea what his tenancy agreement does or does not include.

Good Luck in your new place OP but easy on the Monday night parties

djimi

leeomurchu wrote: »

Are you not just reiterating my point about the tenancy laws being strongly in favour of the tenant? We could play this merry dance all night

the agreement between landlord and tenant is legally binding if the landlord has added clauses the tenant should've been made aware of these.

I suppose I am. The point I was trying to make is that the landlord does not get to decide what constitutes a legal eviction, and if they try and write something into the lease that goes against the tenants rights then it doesnt matter whether or not the tenant signs and agrees to the lease, its still not legally binding. If the tenant can prove that they were unfairly evicted on the basis of one minor and isolated complaint, then even if its in the lease that complaints = eviction or whatever, chances are the landlord is going to find themselves in hot water if the tenant takes a case against them. An illegal eviction is just that, and nothing written into a lease can ever supersede the tenancy laws.

dRNk SAnTA

leeomurchu wrote: »

It is if it's written into the tenancy agreement that there's to be no parties during the working week or any complaints received from neighbours will be deemed a breach of said agreement and result in eviction.

It's all about the wording in his contract unless we get a chance to read it we may aswell be tapping our finger tips on the wall.

You keep repeating this but it's not as simple as you make it out to be. In tenancy disputes the tenant has most of the rights. A landlord needs to make a very good case in order to turf out someone with a 12 month lease out of their home.

The PRTB won't let someone lose their home without even having received a first written warning.

Pkiernan

leeomurchu wrote: »

Are you not just reiterating my point about the tenancy laws being strongly in favour of the tenant? We could play this merry dance all night

the agreement between landlord and tenant is legally binding if the landlord has added clauses the tenant should've been made aware of these.

Yes it's harsh what's happened.

Yes I do think he will get his deposit returned to him.

Yes I do think a party on a Monday night was ill advised.

And finally for those in the cheap seats we've no idea what his tenancy agreement does or does not include.

Good Luck in your new place OP but easy on the Monday night parties

Dude, if you think the OP is getting evicted over this, you must be smoking the strongest pixie dust in the known universe.

Have you ever tried to evict a tenant? It is an 18 month process, and even for serious ASBO cases will take 6 months or more.
My tenant from hell decided to up and leave one day - thank God, as he owed me 2 grand in back rent and simply just wasn't paying it. Landlords just can't get rid of scumbag tenants.

Wake up to reality and stop trying to frighten the OP.


OP: Tel the landlord you are going nowhere. Tell her to start the formal eviction process. Your lease will be up before she gets you out!

Is your tenancy registered with the PRTB? If not, you still get full protection and the LL can be fined.

Additionally, if your tenancy is not registered, then it is very likely that your LL is not paying tax on the rent. Call the Revenue.

Best case for you is an illegal eviction by the way - you will get a minimum 10k compensation.

the_syco

OP; on your lease does it say no parties on weekdays, or no parties full stop. If it doesn't, ask the landlord on what grounds is she evicting you.

Also, if it doesn't mention anything about having no parties on the lease, ask the landlady why this will not be an illegal eviction?

Graciefacey

I'm fairly certain were not getting full story here!

JustAThought

Graciefacey wrote: »

I'm fairly certain were not getting full story here!

It seems totally implausible that 18 days into a lease , after one party, and nothing in writing, that you are all being evicted.

Did you renew a lease?

If your landlord was there in a few minutes at midnight on a Monday evening it sounds as if she wasn't just happening to pass by, but is in close terms with the neighbours & lives nearby. As well as sounding like an unrealistic nightmare to deal with, do you really want to out up with this kommando-Big brother-Landlording & 24/7 scrutiny all year?

I'd tell her her behaviour is totally unreasonable & accept her instruction to quit.


I'd take the extra full month - the deposit month & look for somewhere in that month. It's unreasonable to expect you to quit halfway through a month when places are typically rented on a full month basis. particularly in September when there is high pressure from colleges on renting.
Get witnesses to the conversation. Keep it clear & direct & non-confrontational : & don't leave a follow on address. Either there is another part to this story we're not hearing or she's not the kind of person you want to be dealing with, or hoping to get a deposit back from at the end of a year.

Victor

areyawell wrote: »

Also take a dump and put it in your neighbours letter box when you are leaving.

Advocating such behaviour is unacceptable.

Moderator

Mickey Dazzler

I have been a tenant and am now a landlord for quite a few years with plenty of experience of all sort of tenants.

What I can tell you is that the tenant has all the rights. Everything is stacked in their favor.




If the landlord was being that much of a dick you could tell the landlord that you are not going anywhere and you are not paying them another penny. You could tell them to get a good lawyer cause this is going all the way to the court and you will not be going until you get evicted by the sheriff. You could expect to stay there rent free for over a year in most cases without paying rent. You could party every night of the week and laugh in their faces when they called to the house. In fact if the landlord called to the property you could call the police and report that you are being harassed. If the landlord even gave you the slightest veiled threat you could have them charged and get up to 15k + from the PTRB. If you wanted to screw them out of a years rent and untold amount of hassle you could.

Personally if I was you I would just leave as the landlord sounds like a dick and would just keep hassling you for your entire tenancy. But if they refused to give you the despot back I would threaten the above.

Tigger

tell her to evict you
then sue
simples

personally i'd tell her she has one chance to cop op

athtrasna

EmeraldWolf wrote: »

Hey guys,
I have an issue at the moment with my landlord. Last night we had a surprise party for one of our housemates.

EmeraldWolf wrote: »

Thanks leeomurchu for the sound advice Ill probally do that! Also it was her brithday last night that's why it was on a monday.

Would it not have been more of a surprise to have it at the weekend, before her birthday

OP have you spoken to the neighbours since? It seems strange that they said ok to your face and then went beserk and called your landlord. Something doesn't add up.

djh2009

If the tenancy is less than 6 months old, the landlord doesn't have to give a reason for terminating it.

StillWaters

I am finding it difficult to believe that a LL would evict over a tenant having a few friends around to celebrate a birthday that was over before midnight. Eviction and reletting is costly and a pain in the a.

Much might depend on your definition of party, your neighbours and your LLs. There would be certain types of behaviour that would be a huge red flag to me, and I'd move to get tenants out straight away.

mikemac1

Every day the place is empty the landlord is missing out on money.

And now the LL has to re-advertise and it could take a few weeks to get new tenants.
If they use a letting agent then they will want their fee


No way are we getting the full story, a bit of music and friends around for early Monday evening is not enough to get you evicted.
Not from a reasonable person anyway

4am you deserve a bollocking.

But not even 10:30? Do your neighbours and LL expect you to take off your shoes and tip-toe around your place too?

odds_on

djh2009 wrote: »

If the tenancy is less than 6 months old, the landlord doesn't have to give a reason for terminating it.

This only applies to a Part 4 tenancy, not a fixed term tenancy, where a landlord may evict a tenant during the first six months.

djh2009

odds_on wrote: »

This only applies to a Part 4 tenancy, not a fixed term tenancy, where a landlord may evict a tenant during the first six months.

Its only after the 6 month period that it becomes a Part 4 tenancy.

djimi

djh2009 wrote: »

Its only after the 6 month period that it becomes a Part 4 tenancy.

A fixed term lease cannot be terminated at any point, even in the first 6 months (unless the LL has a very good reason). What you are referring to only applies where no fixed term lease has been signed.

djh2009

djimi wrote: »

A fixed term lease cannot be terminated at any point, even in the first 6 months (unless the LL has a very good reason). What you are referring to only applies where no fixed term lease has been signed.

Why would you not have a fixed term lease ? Would you give me an example and explain briefly the difference if you don't mind.Thanks for your help.

Gary The Gamer

djh2009 wrote: »

Why would you not have a fixed term lease ? Would you give me an example and explain briefly the difference if you don't mind.Thanks for your help.

Look it up yourself, the act is fairly readable. This same point has probably been argued a thousand times on this forum at this stage.
Why do people bother posting replies of advice if they don't know the subject very well. It would make you wonder about the posts on other forums.

ResearchWill

djh2009 wrote: »

Why would you not have a fixed term lease ? Would you give me an example and explain briefly the difference if you don't mind.Thanks for your help.

All your questions are more than likely answered here http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2004/en/act/pub/0027/index.html

Look at section 26.

djh2009

Gary The Gamer wrote: »

Look it up yourself, the act is fairly readable. This same point has probably been argued a thousand times on this forum at this stage.
Why do people bother posting replies of advice if they don't know the subject very well. It would make you wonder about the posts on other forums.

Thanks for your contribution there fella.Unfortunately,i havent been around here long enough to read every thread on this matter.Cant wait till im here as long as yourself and rack up the massive amount of 125 posts that you have.Hope they were all as helpful as this one here.

odds_on

djh2009 wrote: »

Why would you not have a fixed term lease ? Would you give me an example and explain briefly the difference if you don't mind.Thanks for your help.

As djimi says, a fixed term lease cannot be broken, except in the case of a breach of obligations. However, a tenant does have a get-out option (which a landlord does not have), by assigning the remainder of a lease.

A Part 4 tenancy allows a landlord to evict a tenant under 6 grounds, the two most common of which are if the landlord intends to sell the property, or if the landlord requires the property for his own use or that of a close family member. A fixed term lease does not allow a landlord to evict for these reasons.

Thus, a landlord wishing to sell his property "with vacant possession" can do so if he uses a Part 4 lease. Again, if a landlord suddenly discovers that, say his daughter wants accommodation, the landlord can legally evict a tenant and let his daughter have the property.

A tenant may ask for a Part 4 lease if he is unsure that he will require the property of the full term of a fixed term lease and with a Part 4 lease, he only has to give the required notice period and vacate, without the hassle of assigning and finding a new tenant. At the end of a fixed term lease, it is the tenant who decides what type of lease he wants - either another fixed term lease for security of tenure for another year (remembering that a landlord can only evict him if he is in breach of the tenant's obligations); or a Part 4 lease with less security but easy of leaving.

djimi

djh2009 wrote: »

Why would you not have a fixed term lease ? Would you give me an example and explain briefly the difference if you don't mind.Thanks for your help.

There are plenty of people who do not wish to sign a fixed term lease for one reason or another; usually a short term letting or a more informal arrangement. Or where a tenant has not signed a further fixed term lease and has remained in the property; they automatically aquire a part 4 tenancy.

A part 4 tenancy runs alongside a fixed term lease after 6 months and for a further 3 and a half years, but at all times when a fixed term lease is in place it will trump the terms of the part 4 tenancy, and as such the clauses in the part 4 tenancy which allow either party to break the lease do not apply. This includes the ability of the landlord to break the lease for any reason in the first 6 months of the tenancy.