Question about Wendler 5/3/1

Diddlydoubt

I just started this program yesterday using the 2-day per week split of Bench/Squat on day 1 and OH Press/Deadlift on day 2.

I was wondering if anybody has followed this on a 2 day split of bench/squat on day 1 and OH Press/Deadlift on day 2 and if so how this worked out in the medium - longer term in terms of progression?

at the moment my football season has not finished and i train on the pitch on a wednesday/friday with a game on a sunday.

so i am intending to do the 2 day split of day 1 on a monday and day 2 on a thursday as a 4 day or even 3 day split along with my training wouldne be feasible.

Yesterday i did the 2 main lifts plus assistance work of: squats at 5*10*50% and Bench press at 5*10*50%/1 Arm DB Row at 5*10.

How sustainable would it be to just use the 2-day split even when my football finishes for the year?

would a 3 day split of say bench/squat on day 1, OH Press on day 2 and deadlift on day 3 be better when football finishes as 4 days isnt really feasible for me?

would appreciate any feedback from anybody who has done the 5/3/1 or who might know.

cheers

deadlybuzzman

Ive done 5/3/1 while playing football and the key I found was giving yourself enough time to recover between legwork and football. 5/3/1's main strength is that its so flexible simple and straightforward so play around with it as you see fit.
Dont do a heap of accessory work. In terms of a split I do the 4 lifts over 4 days with 1 main lift per session, Mon, wed, fri and mon again. That way I was fully recovered from squats before deadlifting. I also throw in some extra benching on military day and vice versa

Diddlydoubt

I was wondering if I could maybe do some of the upper body lifts on my training days for the time being?

for example, i have training on the pitch tonight, so instead of doing the OH Press and Deadlift together tomorrow, i was considering doing the OH Press day this evening before my training and then doing the deadlift day tomorrow with some accessory work?

i suppose the nature of the program allows some flexibilty with when or how to group the days. i plan to always get the 4 main lifts done over the course of a 7 day period so as to keep my cycles to 4 weeks. then just to alter the accessory work depending on my other training. would this be the best approach?

i was just curious as to whether others have deviated from the 4 day per week split and what way that impacted on their progress.

deadlybuzzman

Diddlydoubt wrote: »

I was wondering if I could maybe do some of the upper body lifts on my training days for the time being?

for example, i have training on the pitch tonight, so instead of doing the OH Press and Deadlift together tomorrow, i was considering doing the OH Press day this evening before my training and then doing the deadlift day tomorrow with some accessory work?

i suppose the nature of the program allows some flexibilty with when or how to group the days. i plan to always get the 4 main lifts done over the course of a 7 day period so as to keep my cycles to 4 weeks. then just to alter the accessory work depending on my other training. would this be the best approach?

i was just curious as to whether others have deviated from the 4 day per week split and what way that impacted on their progress.

Id yeah you definitley could do upper body the same day as football training one wont effect the other so long as you dont wreck yourself in the gym, maybe build up the accessory work initally to aclimatise. What you will find is its the accessory work that will fatigue you the most as the volume on the main lifts isnt that big.
Do keep an open mind on doing a Mon wed fri mon split though, see how it all fits together for you. The main thing I like about it not fitting neatly into a 7 day week is that when Im in the gym on my day off every week Im doing a different lift, and as thats always my longest session nothing gets neglected

Diddlydoubt

deadlybuzzman wrote: »

Id yeah you definitley could do upper body the same day as football training one wont effect the other so long as you dont wreck yourself in the gym, maybe build up the accessory work initally to aclimatise. What you will find is its the accessory work that will fatigue you the most as the volume on the main lifts isnt that big.
Do keep an open mind on doing a Mon wed fri mon split though, see how it all fits together for you. The main thing I like about it not fitting neatly into a 7 day week is that when Im in the gym on my day off every week Im doing a different lift, and as thats always my longest session nothing gets neglected

Yeah thats what I noticed on Monday. I started with the Main lifts of Squat and then Bench Press.

Have not done much weights over the summer so set my 1RM's at a lighter level as suggested. My 5/3/1 1RM for bench was working out at 68kg and for Squat was working out at 81kg.

I did the main lifts for both exercises first and found them fine. then i did 5*10*40kg on squats and 5*10*35kg on bench with 5*10*18kg on 1 Arm DB Rows.

I find my legs are still sore as hell today from the squats so i presume it was the extra accessory stuff which has led to the soreness.

i am not sure what assistance work to follow with along with the main lifts. does it make much difference to vary it from week to week?

i was planning on doing maybe 2 assistance exercises along with each main lift so for example aside from the 2 i used for bench on monday next week would it make any difference if i used DB Bench and dips and the same for other main lift days?

deadlybuzzman

Diddlydoubt wrote: »

Yeah thats what I noticed on Monday. I started with the Main lifts of Squat and then Bench Press.

Have not done much weights over the summer so set my 1RM's at a lighter level as suggested. My 5/3/1 1RM for bench was working out at 68kg and for Squat was working out at 81kg.

I did the main lifts for both exercises first and found them fine. then i did 5*10*40kg on squats and 5*10*35kg on bench with 5*10*18kg on 1 Arm DB Rows.

I find my legs are still sore as hell today from the squats so i presume it was the extra accessory stuff which has led to the soreness.

i am not sure what assistance work to follow with along with the main lifts. does it make much difference to vary it from week to week?

i was planning on doing maybe 2 assistance exercises along with each main lift so for example aside from the 2 i used for bench on monday next week would it make any difference if i used DB Bench and dips and the same for other main lift days?

Its good to rotate assistance stuff every so often, maybe do it when progress stops. In terms of deciding what exercises to do what I did was watch where in a lift I was struggling e.g. my back was letting me down on squats so I do back work like good mornings, with deadlifts it was getting the bar off the ground so I did deficiet deadlifts etc.
Dont presume it has to be 5 sets of 10 espec on the leg stuff as you have to give yourself a chance to recover for football

Diddlydoubt

deadlybuzzman wrote: »

Its good to rotate assistance stuff every so often, maybe do it when progress stops. In terms of deciding what exercises to do what I did was watch where in a lift I was struggling e.g. my back was letting me down on squats so I do back work like good mornings, with deadlifts it was getting the bar off the ground so I did deficiet deadlifts etc.
Dont presume it has to be 5 sets of 10 espec on the leg stuff as you have to give yourself a chance to recover for football

Yeah I think I will focus on the main lifts and then alternate the number of assistance exercise I add in on each day based on how i feel and on what way i am progressing.

When you were doing the program yourself, what assistance exercises did you add in generally along with each main lift on the particular days?

did you find that it was a really quick session to do one main lift per day? I did bench and squat day together with the assistance exercises on monday in about 40mins.

Also just to say, I am about 75kg, 5'10 and at a guess around 10-12% body fat. My goal over the next 3 months or so would be to increase my lean muscle mass without gaining fat.

In terms of achieving this goal, is there any particular assistance work is more recommended for my goals over others ie. boring but big or just bodyweight stuff etc?

deadlybuzzman

Diddlydoubt wrote: »

Yeah I think I will focus on the main lifts and then alternate the number of assistance exercise I add in on each day based on how i feel and on what way i am progressing.

When you were doing the program yourself, what assistance exercises did you add in generally along with each main lift on the particular days?

did you find that it was a really quick session to do one main lift per day? I did bench and squat day together with the assistance exercises on monday in about 40mins.

Also just to say, I am about 75kg, 5'10 and at a guess around 10-12% body fat. My goal over the next 3 months or so would be to increase my lean muscle mass without gaining fat.

In terms of achieving this goal, is there any particular assistance work is more recommended for my goals over others ie. boring but big or just bodyweight stuff etc?

Im back dong 531 again now for the last few weeks, Ive a log on the strength sports section if you want to see my assistance stuff, generally just do what hepls the main lifts.
You will probably gain some fat when getting bigger but dont worry about it, its much easier to get bigger and lean up then (so long as you dont go nuts) rather than trying to gain while staying lean.
The BBB stuff is probably as good as any to gain but dont get bogged down in dogma, 531 is about keepng it simple and to the point so do things till they stop working and then change, be it reps sets or lifts

Diddlydoubt

deadlybuzzman wrote: »

Im back dong 531 again now for the last few weeks, Ive a log on the strength sports section if you want to see my assistance stuff, generally just do what hepls the main lifts.
You will probably gain some fat when getting bigger but dont worry about it, its much easier to get bigger and lean up then (so long as you dont go nuts) rather than trying to gain while staying lean.
The BBB stuff is probably as good as any to gain but dont get bogged down in dogma, 531 is about keepng it simple and to the point so do things till they stop working and then change, be it reps sets or lifts

had a look at your log mate. you seem to vary your assisstance work alot and sort of do whatever you feel on that particular day.

i like your thinking on doing military press on bench day to help improve your pressing. might consider this myself as i will be starting pretty low on the military press as its not something i have done much of previously.

going to go with the 2 day spilt of squat/bench and military press/deadlift days and then add in some assisstance work on each days.

i probably will give the volume work a go for all the main lifts at 50% and then vary the other assistance work with 1 or maybe 2 exercises for each main lift.

For example on bench:

Bench (main lift)
Bench volume work at 50%*5*%10
1 Arm DB Row %*10 or Weighted Dips/DB Bench/DB Flys etc

For example on military press:

Military press (main lift)
military press volume work at 50%*5*10
Chins/Pullups/DB Lateral Raise/Shrugs etc

Do you think this might work okay?

deadlybuzzman

Diddlydoubt wrote: »

had a look at your log mate. you seem to vary your assisstance work alot and sort of do whatever you feel on that particular day.

i like your thinking on doing military press on bench day to help improve your pressing. might consider this myself as i will be starting pretty low on the military press as its not something i have done much of previously.

going to go with the 2 day spilt of squat/bench and military press/deadlift days and then add in some assisstance work on each days.

i probably will give the volume work a go for all the main lifts at 50% and then vary the other assistance work with 1 or maybe 2 exercises for each main lift.

For example on bench:

Bench (main lift)
Bench volume work at 50%*5*%10
1 Arm DB Row %*10 or Weighted Dips/DB Bench/DB Flys etc

For example on military press:

Military press (main lift)
military press volume work at 50%*5*10
Chins/Pullups/DB Lateral Raise/Shrugs etc

Do you think this might work okay?

Yeah I go by workng on whatever I felt let me down or is weakest. I pick the weights based on feel and on how I did with it last time. In fairness my pressing should only be used as an example if it turns out in 6 months time I can nearly double my military or get regularly bench well over my bodyweight.

Keeping 1 eye on football maybe only do 2 or 3 sets for the likes of squats though, just a thought.
That set up looks like the way wendler would say do it so its as good a way as any to start with!

Diddlydoubt

deadlybuzzman wrote: »

Yeah I go by workng on whatever I felt let me down or is weakest. I pick the weights based on feel and on how I did with it last time. In fairness my pressing should only be used as an example if it turns out in 6 months time I can nearly double my military or get regularly bench well over my bodyweight.

Keeping 1 eye on football maybe only do 2 or 3 sets for the likes of squats though, just a thought.
That set up looks like the way wendler would say do it so its as good a way as any to start with!

Did Day 2 yesterday evening. Deadlifts and Military Press.

cant believe how quick it is to do these sessions even doing 2 main lifts per day.

did my main lifts on both. then did 3*10*50% volume work for the main lifts again with 3 sets of max chins/ 3 sets max dips/ 3 sets DB Lateral Raise and 5*5 bench.

feeling good after the first week of it. be interesting to see how the next 2 weeks go for me with the varied rep ranges to see how much i can increase my weights and reps by on the last set of each main lift. really liking it so far and will definitely stick with it til christmas at least