What is middle class in Ireland

Sappa

Now since the Celtic Tiger has lost it's fizz and we are in a major recession burning all those paper millionaires and part time property developers what defines middle class in Ireland.
It came up in another thread that you must earn net 100k minimum to be considered middle class,or does Ireland no longer have a core middle class just the have and have nots?

fred funk }{

The working class have their name on badges on their shirt. Middle class have their name on their desk and the upper class have their name on the building.

Tom_Cruise

Anyone not in a minimum wage job is now middle class.

The Aussie

What was the middle class, they are the ones who brought multiple houses to bore everyone to death with stories about their property empire, anyway long story shot, they are now so poverty stricken they now look up at the lower class with envy

Richard Hillman

I would consider being paid an amount that is in the higher tax rate as middle class

Galwayguy35

Guards, nurses, teachers etc I would associate with being Middle Class, or anyone earning over 40 k a year with a college degree.

Turtyturd

The ones who don't think class exists.

Silentcorner

Its the class that are getting f**cked the most over the last few years

If your honest hard working, if youare unemployed but would take a job in the morning if offered, pay your bills as best you can, live your life as honestly as you can, if you value education, work ethic you are middle class

You are better off owing the backs a few million or not have a job ( i refer to the generational unemployed )

Turtyturd

Silentcorner wrote: »

Its the class that are getting f**cked the most over the last few years

If your honest hard working, if youare unemployed but would take a job in the morning if offered, pay your bills as best you can, live your life as honestly as you can, if you value education, work ethic you are middle class

You are better off owing the backs a few million or not have a job ( i refer to the generational unemployed )

So it's the new working class.

Pottler

Define middle class in Ireland at the moment? .Boring and fecked?

Not having a horse.

The Aussie

Deleted User wrote: »

Not having a house.

Fixed.

Zab

Middle class is usually used as a socio-economic term. Anything that defines it in purely financial terms is clearly ignoring the socio part.

oppenheimer1

Economist Definition (from wiki)

"It characterized the middle class as having a reasonable amount of discretionary income, so that they do not live from hand to mouth as the poor do, and defined it as beginning at the point where people have roughly a third of their income left for discretionary spending after paying for basic food and shelter. This allows people to buy consumer goods, improve their health care, and provide for their children's education."

Most people in Ireland with minimum of a bachelor degree would fall into this category.

telecaster

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

Economist Definition (from wiki)

"It characterized the middle class as having a reasonable amount of discretionary income, so that they do not live from hand to mouth as the poor do, and defined it as beginning at the point where people have roughly a third of their income left for discretionary spending after paying for basic food and shelter. This allows people to buy consumer goods, improve their health care, and provide for their children's education."

Most people in Ireland with minimum of a bachelor degree would fall into this category.

There's no mention of education in your quoted definition. If a family had 1/3 of income left after basics but no degree would they not then be middle class?

I dont see how class is contingent on educational qualifications at all.

Voltex

My grandad grew up in Dublins tennements in the 1940's and he was considered well off because he had shoes!!

My dad grew up in the 50's and 60's and was considered well off because he had meat for dinner more than once a week...

I grew up in the 80's and 90's and considered myself well off because our family went on holiday abroad every year.

I consider my kids to be well off because they go on 2 holidays every year, they can go to swimming, football, cubs, bmx..etc.etc.


Middle class...its such a relative term!!

Chain_reaction

I thought we didn't have a class system in Ireland?

the groutch

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e4CtWb4tJBg

zenno

Silentcorner wrote: »

Its the class that are getting f**cked the most over the last few years

If your honest hard working, if youare unemployed but would take a job in the morning if offered, pay your bills as best you can, live your life as honestly as you can, if you value education, work ethic you are middle class

You are better off owing the backs a few million or not have a job ( i refer to the generational unemployed )

This is rubbish, just because you are hard working doesn't mean you are an honest person, why does "honest" always come into it as if you are the perfect human being. Just because someone works, that means they are honest ? It's just work and everyone has to do it, what's honest about it ? it's just called work.

ehcocmeo

The Aussie wrote: »

What was the middle class, they are the ones who brought multiple houses to bore everyone to death with stories about their property empire, anyway long story shot, they are now so poverty stricken they now look up at the lower class with envy

its a reality!!. I could not be bothered with an apartment in Budapest or bulgaria.. but friends I know said I was crazy not to expand and invest..


Today I can take 3 holidays a year in the sun with the family... While they are smoothed in debt.

Middle class.. Well I still have my 1996 polo and it does just fine. But I owe nobody anything and we are all happy with what we have.

I don;t need a 5 bed detached house our 3 bed semi is fine..

cartell_best

Middle class is the people who are paying a mortgage, down the road from you, at €1200 per month. But yet you're paying your landlord 500 per month. Middle class are the people who own a '09 reg car, wishing they owned a 12 reg, so the neighbours don't think any less of them. Thank God, I'm working class...regardless, if I'm earning 35 or 70K per year!....

FloatingVoter

Under class, working class, upper class - don't give a toss about what class they are and just get on with the day.

The middle class worry about things like class. It is self-defeating because there is nothing more classless than caring about class.

mike65

The middle class are the squeezed class, the coping class. The ones with a massive paper debt on their home and a commute that nearly costs as much as the crèche does.

The social welfare class (in the broadest sense ie pensioners too) have lost the least in this crash, but don't anyone dare suggest that eh?

ehcocmeo

FloatingVoter wrote: »

Under class, working class, upper class - don't give a toss about what class they are and just get on with the day.

The middle class worry about things like class. It is self-defeating because there is nothing more classless than caring about class.

Exactly....!. Upper class.. Just look at the tetra pack heiress dead in her house for weeks.. What does money bring a person?


What is a comfortable wage in Ireland today for a Family I would say 50K.

But Money is not everything.

mikemac1

Filling up the HETAC (or was that FETAC?) survey, farmers were in a class of their own
You filled this up when you started college and probably when you finished too

Makes sense

You could be a millionaire or a pauper, labour and sweat all day or be a "gentleman farmer" like Michael O'Leary and his prize herd.

Impossible to nail down farmers into a class, best to leave them out on their own

Richard Hillman

FloatingVoter wrote: »

Under class, working class, upper class - don't give a toss about what class they are and just get on with the day.

The middle class worry about things like class. It is self-defeating because there is nothing more classless than caring about class.

I find that in Ireland it is the underclass and some members of the Working classes that care most about they class system. If you go to a random punter from the underclasses and ask them about something like Rugby or Cricket, the first thing they would mention would be something about classes. If you live in an area filled with lifetime welfare people and you have a nice car, house and want to send your kids to a good school rather than the local school with major discipline problems, you would be considered to be a snob.

Teyla Emmagan

I don't think the concept of 'class' equates to 'income'.

You can be born upper class (as an English Duke, say) and still be as poor as a churchmouse. Or, if you're a total chav, and win the lottery, you're still not upper class.

Silentcorner

zenno wrote: »

This is rubbish, just because you are hard working doesn't mean you are an honest person, why does "honest" always come into it as if you are the perfect human being. Just because someone works, that means they are honest ? It's just work and everyone has to do it, what's honest about it ? it's just called work.

Steady on son, if you don't subscribe to what is often referred to an honest days work fair enough but no need to rubbish the opinion of someone who does

And by the way I never claimed to be anything, where in my post did I claim to be a perfect human being

zenno

Silentcorner wrote: »

Steady on son, if you don't subscribe to what is often referred to an honest days work fair enough but no need to rubbish the opinion of someone who does

And by the way I never claimed to be anything, where in my post did I claim to be a perfect human being

No, i didn't mean you personally, the "you" part was just in relation to others not you personally, sorry if it sounded that way Silentcorner.

oldyouth

Currently, the Middle Class in Ireland have to be Public Service employees. Yes, they are finding it as hard as the rest of us to make ends meet, but with a bit of belt tightening they will come out at the other end. The rest of us might not

retroactive

Someone once defined "working class" as having a television bigger than your bookcase. Would the converse be true? Working class is having a bookcase bigger than your television?

Many working, middle class and upper class families are saddled with a heavy amount of post property bubble debt. This has blurred the lines between the classes - no longer will having a large home and an up to date car be considered "doing well". I always defined class on more than wealth, what profession are you in - Construction, Gardai, Judge? What holidays do you go on - boozing in Benidorm or Skiing near the Alps? What books are you reading - Jordan's bio, Dalia Smith's book or Dostoevsky. Class is more than mere wealth, it's in the newspapers we read, the jobs we do and the interests we have.

Owen_S

Being middle class in Ireland is having decking outside your house. Lots of Celtic Tiger decking.

zenno

These are the words of the middle class...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VSqQ-0TwMiM

Mahogany

mike65 wrote: »

The social welfare class (in the broadest sense ie pensioners too) have lost the least in this crash, but don't anyone dare suggest that eh?

You're wrong, people with feck all income took a hit in the child benefit, explain how that is fair?

If you wanted to buy a house, you should've known what you were getting yourself into.

The Aussie

Mahogany, I think you might be chronologically lost, was Children's Benefit not cut at the start of December 2012 and you dig up a post from what September 2012????

Now unless Mike69er is Nostradamus or something. :pac:

Mahogany

Doesn't mean I'm wrong. He's suggesting people on welfare havn't klost out on anything the last few years, well thats far from true

Chucken

The Aussie wrote: »

Mahogany, I think you might be chronologically lost, was Children's Benefit not cut at the start of December 2012 and you dig up a post from what September 2012????

Now unless Mike69er is Nostradamus or something. :pac:

Are you saying he's not? :eek:

macsauce

As someone said already, class has nothing to do with money or income. "Class" is fundamentally about breeding.

carlmango11

Mahogany wrote: »

You're wrong, people with feck all income took a hit in the child benefit, explain how that is fair?

Everyone took a hit when **** hit the fan. It's unfair if those on the lower end of the scale were made immune to losses by higher tax rates for those of higher income.

Chain_reaction wrote: »

I thought we didn't have a class system in Ireland?

Every country has classes.

humbert

If you don't say "I done ..." you are middle class. I don't really believe Ireland has an upper class.

Mahogany

carlmango11 wrote: »

Everyone took a hit when **** hit the fan. It's unfair if those on the lower end of the scale were made immune to losses by higher tax rates for those of higher income.



Every country has classes.

So cut child benefit and make families struggle to put food on the table while middle income families think they have it bad because they can't afford the second car. Aw, thats so sad

tayto lover

Middle income are the middle class that are keeping the country running.
The people at the top and those at the bottom are paying feck all.

Chop Chop

humbert wrote: »

If you don't say "I done ..." you are middle class. I don't really believe Ireland has an upper class.

What planet are you living on? There are plenty of upper class in this country. The likes of JP Mc Manus, real billionaires not Sean Quinn the paper billionaire. There is an elite upper class in this country, it's made up of very shrewd business men.

carlmango11

Mahogany wrote: »

So cut child benefit and make families struggle to put food on the table while middle income families think they have it bad because they can't afford the second car. Aw, thats so sad

What's the alternative? Take more money from the middle class? This will do nothing but discourage people from working. It sends out the message that if you stay on welfare everything will be handed to you; if you work your money will go towards those on benefits. I know so many people who don't work purely because it's better for them to stay on welfare payments.

The Aussie

Mahogany wrote: »

Aw, thats so sad

Can I read this after I've finished eating my Venison and Caviar while I watch my 200 inch TV, oh and after I go for a dump and get my servent to wipe my asre (:pac:) with fresh €20 notes, yes I know the horror I used to use €50 notes but you know there is a recession on and all.....

cosbloodymick

Being middle class has nothing to do with income.
Middle class is a question of attitude.
Its the desire to achieve in life. To work hard and provide for yourself and your family. To educate yourself and broaden your mind, to experience different things in life, to educate your children so that they may achieve even better than yourself.

Beef_Injection

Anyone living behind the barbed wire fences south east of west and south inner city Dublin and East of the Howth road.

Damn plebeians.

*Deeply inhales gaseous matter from Waterford crystal champagne glass*

Madam_X

cosbloodymick wrote: »

Being middle class has nothing to do with income.
Middle class is a question of attitude.
Its the desire to achieve in life. To work hard and provide for yourself and your family. To educate yourself and broaden your mind, to experience different things in life, to educate your children so that they may achieve even better than yourself.

Those can apply to people from all walks of life though.

carlmango11

Madam_X wrote: »

Those can apply to people from all walks of life though.

Unfortunately they often don't but where they do I would consider that person middle class. It's not about money really - they just often go hand-in-hand.

Augmerson

cosbloodymick wrote: »

Being middle class has nothing to do with income.
Middle class is a question of attitude.
Its the desire to achieve in life. To work hard and provide for yourself and your family. To educate yourself and broaden your mind, to experience different things in life, to educate your children so that they may achieve even better than yourself.

That could be just about anybody. From working class to middle class to the upper classes. Wanting a better life for yourself is in 99% of us.

I think, in this country, that an overwhelming number of us are working class. There's nothing wrong with being working class - genuine and proud working people. Not the horrible negative stigma that the media has attached to it over the years. I work for a living - I'm working class. Simple as that.

If I didn't need to work for a living because I was well off, I'd be middle to upper class.

annascott

Don't confuse wealth with class...