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Moments (/movies I guess) that make me glad to not believe

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    #32
    Dades
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 25,558 Mod ✭✭✭✭Dades


    Next time just hit the "quote" button. ;)


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    #33
    krudler
    Registered Users Posts: 34,788 ✭✭✭✭krudler


    Dades wrote: »
    Next time just hit the "quote" button. ;)

    his way sounds way more fun!


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    #34
    robindch
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,406 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    I'm hoping that Calibos isn't on a train or bus.


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    #35
    Mickeroo
    Administrators, Computer Games Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 32,210 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Mickeroo


    robindch wrote: »
    I'm hoping that Calibos isn't on a train or bus.

    I was hoping he is!! :D


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    #36
    jank
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 13,018 ✭✭✭✭jank


    krudler wrote: »
    no she doesn't :confused:

    Well not faith the sense that she becomes a born again christen, starts praying to god or anything like that but faith as in her inability to let her experiences go just because she cannot prove it.

    The end of the movie is quite clear on this, although I have not read the book so unsure if this passage is the same or added for Hollywood affect (would be nice to know if anyone can tell me.)


    http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0118884/quotes
    Panel member: Doctor Arroway, you come to us with no evidence, no record, no artifacts. Only a story that to put it mildly strains credibility. Over half a trillion dollars was spent, dozens of lives were lost. Are you really going to sit there and tell us we should just take this all... on faith?
    [pause, Ellie looks at Palmer]
    Michael Kitz: Please answer the question, doctor.
    Ellie Arroway: Is it possible that it didn't happen? Yes. As a scientist, I must concede that, I must volunteer that.
    Michael Kitz: Wait a minute, let me get this straight. You admit that you have absolutely no physical evidence to back up your story.
    Ellie Arroway: Yes.
    Michael Kitz: You admit that you very well may have hallucinated this whole thing.
    Ellie Arroway: Yes.
    Michael Kitz: You admit that if you were in our position, you would respond with exactly the same degree of incredulity and skepticism!
    Ellie Arroway: Yes!
    Michael Kitz: [standing, angrily] Then why don't you simply withdraw your testimony, and concede that this "journey to the center of the galaxy," in fact, never took place!
    Ellie Arroway: Because I can't. I... had an experience... I can't prove it, I can't even explain it, but everything that I know as a human being, everything that I am tells me that it was real! I was given something wonderful, something that changed me forever... A vision... of the universe, that tells us, undeniably, how tiny, and insignificant and how... rare, and precious we all are! A vision that tells us that we belong to something that is greater then ourselves, that we are *not*, that none of us are alone! I wish... I... could share that... I wish, that everyone, if only for one... moment, could feel... that awe, and humility, and hope. But... That continues to be my wish.

    Note the last part, in essence she wants others to take a leap of faith in her something she probably would have though preposterous before her journey. So yea in my opinion she "re"-discovered faith.


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    #37
    Dades
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 25,558 Mod ✭✭✭✭Dades


    jank wrote: »
    Note the last part, in essence she wants others to take a leap of faith in her something she probably would have though preposterous before her journey. So yea in my opinion she "re"-discovered faith.
    As a huge "Contact" fan (movie, and in particularly the book), I have to disagree.

    During the movie Arroway is shunned for her lack of faith. When she returns from her "trip", there is no proof that anything whatsoever happened while she was in the device. The video feeds didn't work, and the time discrepancy was huge (instant in the movie).

    Therefore, knowing what she experienced, she asks everyone else to show that faith that she never had, but was castigated for not having. She doesn't need faith - she was there.

    In the movie evidence actually exists, though she doesn't know it.
    (It's revealed they recorded 17 hours of static during her split second trip.)

    In actual fact the book has a really interesting extra chapter that *hints* at something "intelligent" behind the mechanics of the universe. I won't spoiler it though as the book is worth reading independent of the movie for this and other reasons. :)


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    #38
    CerebralCortex
    Registered Users Posts: 3,809 ✭✭✭CerebralCortex


    Yuck I hate that movie soooo much!!


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    #39
    Turtwig
    Registered Users Posts: 26,578 ✭✭✭✭Turtwig


    CerebralCortex wrote: »
    Yuck I hate that movie soooo much!!

    You had better be talking about Prometheus here bro!
    pup.jpg


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    #40
    kiffer
    Registered Users Posts: 2,097 ✭✭✭kiffer


    krudler wrote: »
    kiffer wrote: »
    ... seriously?

    Engineers make us.
    We make android.
    We want engineers to treat us better.
    At the same time we consider our creations as just a machine... less than a slave.

    Edit: sorry on luas, cut short by end of journey.

    I get that but why would our ability to make artificial life disprove god?

    It wouldn't...
    Why would the learning that these engineers made* us disprove the existence of a prime mover type god?

    (*or rather interfered with our development at some point, who says it was their intent to make us, we could have been a totally unintended side effect of their teraforming project... that they tried to make the best of by educating but then changed their minds. we just don't know why the did anything, heck we don't even know if the ones on earth helping the humans and pointing out the star system are from the same faction as the ones making the black goo.
    They could be Space Russians vs Space Americans during the Space Cold War. Using us as pawns, sure they look the same... That doesn't mean the share ideologlies.

    It bugged me as to why the Engineer
    just turns into a smashy smashy movie monster, there's no explanation as to why he starts battering people. like if you populated a planet then some humans managed to progress enough to make it out into space and track you down you wouldnt be a tiny bit curious and chat to them? not lets rip this dudes head off and batter that oul guy who looks like Johnny Knoxville in the Bad Grandpa makeup from Jackass :pac:
    You go into cold sleep on the verge of setting forth on a attack* mission against a planet... you wake up and the rest of your crew is dead. There are members of the race you intended to wipe out standing over you with weapons and they are shouting, one of them says something, we don't know what he said, he could have gotten it very wrong.
    Or seeing as David is a bit of a jerk (press all the buttons!) he may have been following his own agenda "doesn't every one want to see their parents dead".

    We just don't have enough information to be sure of the engineers motivations.
    Maybe we are psychically painful to them.
    Maybe they realized that someday we would surpass them, make thinking machines which don't share our dna and this was an dangerous.
    Maybe we were pawns in a war.
    Who knows...
    Doesn't matter, aliens with alien motivation do alien things.

    *actually we don't even know for sure it was an attack mission...


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    #41
    krudler
    Registered Users Posts: 34,788 ✭✭✭✭krudler


    Dades wrote: »
    As a huge "Contact" fan (movie, and in particularly the book), I have to disagree.

    During the movie Arroway is shunned for her lack of faith. When she returns from her "trip", there is no proof that anything whatsoever happened while she was in the device. The video feeds didn't work, and the time discrepancy was huge (instant in the movie).

    Therefore, knowing what she experienced, she asks everyone else to show that faith that she never had, but was castigated for not having. She doesn't need faith - she was there.

    In the movie evidence actually exists, though she doesn't know it.
    (It's revealed they recorded 17 hours of static during her split second trip.)

    This basically, it shows how ridiculous blind faith is, religious people question her even though she was there, and saw what she saw, and more importantly there was proof it in the video static. but still rubbish her claims, even though their own faith is based on zero proof at all.


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    #42
    eviltwin
    Registered Users Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    When I see my brother and his wife accept they will never have a family because IVF is a "sin" , when I don't have to feel guilty about being in control of my own fertility, when I don't have to put my kids through the charade of communion and confirmation, when I can accept people without having to judge them or tell them they are wrong - these are just some of the reasons I am glad to be an atheist

    The sunday lie ins are pretty good too ;)


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    #43
    krudler
    Registered Users Posts: 34,788 ✭✭✭✭krudler


    eviltwin wrote: »
    When I see my brother and his wife accept they will never have a family because IVF is a "sin" , when I don't have to feel guilty about being in control of my own fertility, when I don't have to put my kids through the charade of communion and confirmation, when I can accept people without having to judge them or tell them they are wrong - these are just some of the reasons I am glad to be an atheist

    The sunday lie ins are pretty good too ;)

    wtf?


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    #44
    eviltwin
    Registered Users Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    krudler wrote: »
    wtf?

    Long story, they were given a gift of money by a family member, they were going to use it to fund IVF treatment but when this very religious person found out the intended use they changed their mind.


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    #45
    robindch
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,406 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    ^^^ Chez nous, Popette maintains that IVF is a grievous, grievous sin since IVF babies are born without a soul(*)

    Haven't figured out where the Vatican has stated this, so perhaps Popette's tendency to plow her own lonely furrow is to blame.





    (*) Cue dramatic music, lightening flashes, alarums and diversions etc, etc, etc


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    #46
    Sarky
    Closed Accounts Posts: 31,967 ✭✭✭✭Sarky


    robindch wrote: »
    t so perhaps Popette's tendency to plow her own lonely furrow is to blame.

    Ew.


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    #47
    jsn.peters
    Registered Users Posts: 52 ✭✭jsn.peters


    krudler wrote: »
    Actually a good watch for the whole science v religion cagematch is Contact, its a good look at what would happen should alien communication occur, planet earth goes batsh1t basically.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SRoj3jK37Vc

    Totally agree with you


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    #48
    robindch
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,406 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    Sarky wrote: »
    Ew.
    Mea facepalm!


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    #49
    LittleBook
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,716 ✭✭✭LittleBook


    robindch wrote: »
    ^^^ Chez nous, Popette maintains that IVF is a grievous, grievous sin since IVF babies are born without a soul(*)

    Haven't figured out where the Vatican has stated this, so perhaps Popette's tendency to plow her own lonely furrow is to blame.





    (*) Cue dramatic music, lightening flashes, alarums and diversions etc, etc, etc

    A Vatican official has said the awarding of the Nobel Prize for Medicine to British IVF pioneer Robert Edwards is "completely out of order"

    I believe it's to do with the disposal of embryos which are not ultimately used .... they don't mention the souls. :)


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    #50
    Dades
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 25,558 Mod ✭✭✭✭Dades


    krudler wrote: »
    This basically, it shows how ridiculous blind faith is, religious people question her even though she was there, and saw what she saw, and more importantly there was proof it in the video static. but still rubbish her claims, even though their own faith is based on zero proof at all.
    To be fair - in the movie the "evidence" was covered up from the public. Also, alien abductees always claim they were there, too!


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    #51
    CerebralCortex
    Registered Users Posts: 3,809 ✭✭✭CerebralCortex


    Jernal wrote: »
    You had better be talking about Prometheus here bro!

    Both with equal derision!

    22801769.jpg


    Edit: That's not true, Prometheus is worse. In fact it's paying a complement to Prometheus to put them side by side. Contact is a far superior movie.


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    #52
    jank
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 13,018 ✭✭✭✭jank


    Dades wrote: »

    Therefore, knowing what she experienced, she asks everyone else to show that faith that she never had, but was castigated for not having. She doesn't need faith - she was there.

    As I said she is asking others to take a leap of faith on her even though there is no "known" proof that they should believe her.

    She was there of course but she had no known proof at the time of this. Check out the dialogue I posted. It was if her scientific mind was battling with her personal experience. She was trying to reconcile the two.
    Michael Kitz: You admit that you very well may have hallucinated this whole thing.
    Ellie Arroway: Yes.

    She knows what she went through, has no proof of it yet cannot let it go ". To me that is a re discovering of faith.
    Dades wrote: »
    In actual fact the book has a really interesting extra chapter that *hints* at something "intelligent" behind the mechanics of the universe. I won't spoiler it though as the book is worth reading independent of the movie for this and other reasons. :)

    Would like to check out the book actually. Is Carl Sagan a good writer, in the sense that the story flows and doesnt read like a physicis manual?


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    #53
    Dades
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 25,558 Mod ✭✭✭✭Dades


    Well, I don't agree you need faith in a religious sense to believe something that actually happened to you. Faith in yourself, perhaps, but that's very different. You're not taking what someone else tell you on faith.

    As for Sagan as a writer, Contact is a class, intelligent science fiction novel (and that is my favourite genre). At no point do you think this guy is foremost a scientist, and second a writer. :)


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    #54
    Bannasidhe
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 19,219 Mod ✭✭✭✭Bannasidhe


    robindch wrote: »

    (*) Cue dramatic music, lightening flashes, alarums and diversions etc, etc, etc

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zdIID_TGwhM


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