NEVIN HEADING FOR GERMANY

barney4001

According to todays Irish Mail Nevin is of to Germany to discuss turning pro with Sauerland he is being accompanied with Brian McKeown to iron out terms
which may mean him living there

unknown13

Sauerland ? Nevin should go to America or UK if you want to turn pro.

slapbangwallop

how many fighters under 154lb do you see on German TV?

unknown13

slapbangwallop wrote: »

how many fighters under 154lb do you see on German TV?

Very little and their stable of World champions is very weak. This was proven when Abraham went into the Super Six.

mossy95

unknown13 wrote: »

Sauerland ? Nevin should go to America or UK if you want to turn pro.

Apparntley Germany is a good place to box.Defintley a good place to start maybe Germany will be a stepping stone for better things.

barney4001

mossy95 wrote: »

Apparntley Germany is a good place to box.Defintley a good place to start maybe Germany will be a stepping stone for better things.

For Nevins sake i hope you are right

slapbangwallop

mossy95 wrote: »

Apparntley Germany is a good place to box.Defintley a good place to start maybe Germany will be a stepping stone for better things.

Germany is a great place to box, if you are a Cruiserweight!

They do offer good money for fights but like I said above, they dont dig Light middleweights on German TV, let alone Bantams.

Tough choice where to go when you are that weight. Maybe the Bernard Dunne route in the States would be viable. They Yanks love to see a white-Irish guy in there mixing it with all the Latinos.

Jayob10

Nevin will go to the highest bidder, by all accounts Sauerland are making a shift to concentrate on lower weight classes, Nevin will be one of many acquisitions in the lower weight classes.

Pro deals are hard to come by in the UK, there is not alot of money to be made right now.

Big Ears

slapbangwallop wrote: »

Germany is a great place to box, if you are a Cruiserweight!

They do offer good money for fights but like I said above, they dont dig Light middleweights on German TV, let alone Bantams.

Tough choice where to go when you are that weight. Maybe the Bernard Dunne route in the States would be viable. They Yanks love to see a white-Irish guy in there mixing it with all the Latinos.

In fairness Sauerland has never really tried very hard when it comes to fighters below Welterweight, I'm not sure if that was down to tv reasons or merely his own preference.

Willy Blain did kind of okay for foreign fighter, fighting out of Germany below Welter. His failings were more down to his lack of talent and boring style than his promotional team. Vitali Tajbert was treated relatively well also, and managed to win a version of a World 'title', but then again he is a naturalised German.
I'd be more concerned with the training he'd receive in Germany than how well Sauerland would do promoting him. The last thing Nevin needs is to become a turtle shell defence kind of fighter.

I'm kind of surprised we haven't heard an offer coming from France, he was very impressive in his time with Paris United and seemed popular enough.

barney4001

Nevin went down from what seemed a weak body punch in the olympics ,which makes me feel he will not make it in Germany

unknown13

barney4001 wrote: »

Nevin went down from what seemed a weak body punch in the olympics ,which makes me feel he will not make it in Germany

Pretty stupid statement to make considering the punch Hopkins stopped De La Hoya with.

candlegrease

barney4001 wrote: »

Nevin went down from what seemed a weak body punch in the olympics ,which makes me feel he will not make it in Germany

Wut. That was a crushing left hook right on the liver.

Big Ears

barney4001 wrote: »

Nevin went down from what seemed a weak body punch in the olympics ,which makes me feel he will not make it in Germany

That shot seemed stronger than the one that Ward dropped Gatti with, and far harder than the one Roy Jones crippled Virgil Hill with. I remember watching the replay of the punch after the fight and wondering how the hell Nevin got up because it was an absolute peach, so I really can't agree with your sentiments.

barney4001

Big Ears wrote: »

That shot seemed stronger than the one that Ward dropped Gatti with, and far harder than the one Roy Jones crippled Virgil Hill with. I remember watching the replay of the punch after the fight and wondering how the hell Nevin got up because it was an absolute peach, so I really can't agree with your sentiments.

At the time it did not seem a hard punch to me ,though i was not on the recieving end, and it was not hopkins ward or jones who delivered it,just my opinion thats all

Syferus

Nevin trained and promoted right would make it anywhere in the world. All the tools and the boxing brain is there. There is genuinely no reason at all that he shouldn't at least win a proper world title of some hue.

Dick phelan

I think JJN would be makeing a mistake to go and fight in Germany, the smaller weights over there are not given attention, his best bet i think would be to go to America he could cash in on the Irish American thing, i reckon he could draw some large crowds tbh in Germany unless your at least 160 you don't get much notice

yore

So JJN didn't enter the draft list for the WSB this year....looks fairly significant to me. What do others think?

barney4001

I believe McGuigan is sniffing around nevin,i see young Conlon has got a place in USA team

yore

I'm thinking maybe the WSB draft was only for new entrants or those looking for a new team. initially I just read the story of the Irish boxers that had put their names forward and presumed that that was the full list. But only 27 or something were picked.

walshb

barney4001 wrote: »

At the time it did not seem a hard punch to me ,though i was not on the recieving end, and it was not hopkins ward or jones who delivered it,just my opinion thats all

It was a clean and perfect shot, that landed when JJN was stretching and exposed; and most likely breathing in. It would take a hell of a sculpted body to withstand that type of shot.

Danye

Seen on Twitter there via Boxing Ireland that JJN has signed for Kahn Promotions?

liam7831

Think that confirmed now:D
January 19th manchester

supersean1999

what a terrible move for nevin , he will get robbed by the khans, they are known to be mad for money and miserable in there offfers to other fighters,

unknown13

supersean1999 wrote: »

what a terrible move for nevin , he will get robbed by the khans, they are known to be mad for money and miserable in there offfers to other fighters,

I would be surprised if they last long in the promotion business. MEN in their first show, is already a bad sign particularly when Amir isn't on the card. They wont get a GB olympian, if any turn pro because the top promoters such as Frank Warren and Eddie Hearn will be ahead of them and no one will want to follow Joe Murray's path with Hatton promotions.

gaybeer

I think this is quite a good move for Nevin. Khan promotions should be one of only two promoters on Sky and Nevin should get early exposure to fighting in the states on big cards. Outside of Matchroom all other British promoters have been losing fighters over the last few years.

ooPabsoo

Interview with John Joe and Bernard Dunne!

http://audioserver.todayfm.com/audio/mediamanager/todayfm/audio/john_joe_bernard_dunne_10-10-12.mp3

unknown13

Oscar Valdez, the Mexican who Nevin beat in the Olympics has turned pro with: Top Rank. He is going to be a serious pro and hopefully we will see a rematch with Nevin, that would be good.

Daroxtar

unknown13 wrote: »

Oscar Valdez, the Mexican who Nevin beat in the Olympics has turned pro with: Top Rank. He is going to be a serious pro and hopefully we will see a rematch with Nevin, that would be good.

No it wouldn't, Valdez would KO JJ. Watch their fight again, Valdez might have been wilder but he had way more power. He was losing the olympic style point scoring but was hurting JJ and had the fight gone on for another round or 2 there would have been a very different outcome. It's one thing picking points for 3 rounds. It's a completely different ball game trying to avoid getting hurt by a big puncher with a furious work rate for 12 rounds and Nevin doesn't have the power to stop Valdez .

barney4001

According to todays Irish Mail Nevin may be having seconds thoughts about his future no contracts have yet been signed

barney4001

Contracts still not signed, Nevin in talks with Walsh again and with 60000 euro a year for the top amateurs now i think Nevin will stay for Rio

megadodge

Daroxtar wrote: »

No it wouldn't, Valdez would KO JJ. Watch their fight again, Valdez might have been wilder but he had way more power. He was losing the olympic style point scoring but was hurting JJ and had the fight gone on for another round or 2 there would have been a very different outcome. It's one thing picking points for 3 rounds. It's a completely different ball game trying to avoid getting hurt by a big puncher with a furious work rate for 12 rounds and Nevin doesn't have the power to stop Valdez .

And it's another thing having a furious workrate for 12 rounds instead of 3!!
There are no guarantees in boxing, so while he looks a good prospect you just can't tell yet.

Pighead

Nevin's changed his mind and has decided not to go down the professional route. He's going to stay an amateur.

http://thescore.thejournal.ie/u-turn-john-joe-nevin-to-stay-amateur-eyes-tilt-at-olympic-gold-663902-Nov2012/?utm_source=shortlink

walshb

I just could never see Nevin doing much at the pro game. He just doesn't have that kind of style. He is perfect for the fencing like amateur game.

Jayob10

Pighead wrote: »

Nevin's changed his mind and has decided not to go down the professional route. He's going to stay an amateur.

http://thescore.thejournal.ie/u-turn-john-joe-nevin-to-stay-amateur-eyes-tilt-at-olympic-gold-663902-Nov2012/?utm_source=shortlink

I see Joe Ward is giving the WSB a go aswell, good stuff. He will be tailor made for that I reckon.

Good move by Ward, far too young to be going pro, he is a major talent for the high performance squad if he keeps his focus.

The WSB will give him a taste of the pro game aswell

megadodge

walshb wrote: »

I just could never see Nevin doing much at the pro game. He just doesn't have that kind of style. He is perfect for the fencing like amateur game.

If you're completely honest you originally didn't really see him doing much in the amateur game either.

I remember when Sutcliffe KO'd JJ Joyce in the National finals, you were prepared to bet with me that Sutcliffe would go further in the next major tournament than Nevin after I had praised Nevin's performances. Badly wrong there.

As Big Ears has pointed out here more than once, Nevin's performances in the WSB proved that he could very well make it in the pros. He stood his ground much more and landed hard, fast accurate punches while still remaining elusive. Don't underestimate him again.

Heliotrope

How does this work? Is the British Lionhearts like a club team or something as there's two Irish lads and few other non-Brits on the squad.

Hope it goes well for him.

walshb

megadodge wrote: »

If you're completely honest you originally didn't really see him doing much in the amateur game either.

I remember when Sutcliffe KO'd JJ Joyce in the National finals, you were prepared to bet with me that Sutcliffe would go further in the next major tournament than Nevin after I had praised Nevin's performances. Badly wrong there.

As Big Ears has pointed out here more than once, Nevin's performances in the WSB proved that he could very well make it in the pros. He stood his ground much more and landed hard, fast accurate punches while still remaining elusive. Don't underestimate him again.

Yes, early on Nevin didn't impress me too much. Recent years he has, and that will be seen in many of my posts. He certainly did improve as an amateur over the last couple of years. I don't see him having the tools at the pro level. I just don't see it. Sure, he could win some fights and build up a padded record, but what about the step up in class? I could be wrong. He could completely adapt and become efficient in the pro game.

Henno30

walshb wrote: »

Yes, early on Nevin didn't impress me too much. Recent years he has, and that will be seen in many of my posts. He certainly did improve as an amateur over the last couple of years. I don't see him having the tools at the pro level. I just don't see it. Sure, he could win some fights and build up a padded record, but what about the step up in class? I could be wrong. He could completely adapt and become efficient in the pro game.

Do you think he's not defensively crafty enough?

walshb

Henno30 wrote: »

Do you think he's not defensively crafty enough?

His D is not what would alarm me. He is very slick, neat and cute. I just don't see the volume, punch fluidity, power and aggression that pros need to succeed. Like I said, he could adapt, but he is what he is, and that is a fantastic amateur fencer/boxer.

barney4001

A good decision by Nevin to stay for Rio and make himself available for the WSB series financially he will be far better off i am sure, 60,000 euro grant a year up to Rio plus what the WSB series brings in for him could well run into 500,000 for him well done young Nevin good luck to you

Henno30

walshb wrote: »

His D is not what would alarm me. He is very slick, neat and cute. I just don't see the volume, punch fluidity, power and aggression that pros need to succeed. Like I said, he could adapt, but he is what he is, and that is a fantastic amateur fencer/boxer.

So do you just not think he's physically explosive enough then?

walshb

Henno30 wrote: »

So do you just not think he's physically explosive enough then?

Yes, that is probably it in a nutshell. But, maybe with the training and effort he could do well. I just think that some folks are better suited to the amateur game. He is one that is.

He showed me recently that he is a better overall boxer. More committed, aggressive and fluid with punching. He wasn't so defensive and cagey oriented. He went and won fights, threw the kitchen sink so to speak. He stood his groung, got off first, and even forced the pace and action more; and guess what, he did better. He almost struck gold.

My issue with Nevin was always that he seemed too content to be cautious and negative and happy with just doing ebough. But, that then caused problems when he was behind on points. He wasn't used to forcing the action and being the aggressor.

Jayob10

walshb wrote: »

Yes, that is probably it in a nutshell. But, maybe with the training and effort he could do well. I just think that some folks are better suited to the amateur game. He is one that is.

He showed me recently that he is a better overall boxer. More committed, aggressive and fluid with punching. He wasn't so defensive and cagey orineted. He went and won fights, threw the kitchen sink so to speak. He stood his groung, got off firts, and even forced the pace and action more; and guess what, he did better. He almost struck gold.

My issue with Nevin was always that he seemed too content to be cautious and negative and happy with just doing ebough. But, that then caused problems when he was behind on points. He wasn't used to forcing the action and being the aggressor.

Thats a pretty decent synopsis on Nevin's abilities in fairness, one would be stretching to disagree with any of that.

megadodge

walshb wrote: »

Yes, that is probably it in a nutshell. But, maybe with the training and effort he could do well. I just think that some folks are better suited to the amateur game. He is one that is.

He showed me recently that he is a better overall boxer. More committed, aggressive and fluid with punching. He wasn't so defensive and cagey oriented. He went and won fights, threw the kitchen sink so to speak. He stood his groung, got off first, and even forced the pace and action more; and guess what, he did better. He almost struck gold.

My issue with Nevin was always that he seemed too content to be cautious and negative and happy with just doing ebough. But, that then caused problems when he was behind on points. He wasn't used to forcing the action and being the aggressor.

I agree completely with the highlighted bit and I think that's what lost him the Olympic final. The first time he fought Campbell, he gave him a boxing lesson. The reason - Campbell was the aggressor. You're wasting your time chasing Nevin, he's just such a brilliant defensive fighter. But fair dues to Campbell, both in the World semi (went to countback) and Olympic final, he stayed back and let Nevin come to him and unfortunately Nevin obliged.

However, I disagree with your opinion on him being negative. You just love aggressive boxers (don't we all) but you always have a problem with the defensive types (with one fat, foul-mouthed exception - I don't even want to mention his name for fear you'll start another lovefest ). Nevin is an expert in the 'hit and don't get hit' style. It's served him brilliantly. He has been Ireland's most consistent male boxer ever. I thoroughly enjoy watching him put on masterclasses in defensive boxing and hopefully he'll continue in that mould and not make the mistake of 'pleasing the fans' ie. ending up losing great fights.

It's all about winning.

walshb

megadodge wrote: »

It's all about winning.

Hey, when he's winning it was never an issue, that is the whole point. I made this point. It was when a fight was maybe very close or when he was a point or two behind that the problem with Nevin was clear to me. He seemed that bit too content to maybe hope for the best. To keep doing what he was doing. Now, and recently recently he has went for the win, become more assertive and still maintained that slick brilliance. To me he is now a much more rounded fighter due to him being more assertive and attacking. He can be attacking and assertive without being reckless. That he is!

BTW, I thought he boxed wonderfully throughout the games. He has improved and has become a more rounded and complete amatuer boxer. I think it's clear to see now.

Syferus

For me the divide between amateur and pro is like rugby league and rugby union, the same essential elements but different tactics and training. It really is speculative judging any world-class amateurs that don't exhibit knockout power beyond saying they have the raw talent to be successful pros. Almost any good amateur with the right trainer and the right mentality can make a serious impact in the pros, especially given that in plenty of cases the level of competition you're facing as an amateur is better than most of the people you'll face as a pro.

I think the most interesting aspect of Nevin's choice is how much the amateur system is encroaching on the fractured pro ranks. Twenty years ago this wouldn't have even been a descion for him.

walshb

Syferus wrote: »

For me the divide between amateur and pro is like rugby league and rugby union, the same essential elements but different tactics and training. It really is speculative judging any world-class amateurs that don't exhibit knockout power beyond saying they have the raw talent to be successful pros. Almost any good amateur with the right trainer and the right mentality can make a serious impact in the pros, especially given that in plenty of cases the level of competition you're facing as an amateur is better than most of the people you'll face as a pro.

I think the most interesting aspect of Nevin's choice is how much the amateur system is encroaching on the fractured pro ranks. Twenty years ago this wouldn't have even been a descion for him.

But regardless of how good you are as an amteur you may not stylistically suit the pros. We have had many very good amatuers who couldn't make it at pro level. To be a very good pro requires that innate something extra.

I could list off many boxers that IMO would not be suited stylistically for the intense and heavy hitting pro game. Irish: Kenneth Egan is/was one. Nevin is two. I would add Conlon to the list. Carruth was one great amatuer who was never pro material, even had he went pro pre Barcelona. His style is just not suited for the game.

I could be wrong about Nevin, but from what I see I don't think he is suited to the game. A guy like Frampton is.

Jayob10

walshb wrote: »

But regardless of how good you are as an amteur you may not stylistically suit the pros. We have had many very good amatuers who couldn't make it at pro level. To be a very good pro requires that innate something extra.

I could list off many boxers that IMO would not be suited stylistically for the intense and heavy hitting pro game. Irish: Kenneth Egan is/was one. Nevin is two. I would add Conlon to the list. Carruth was one great amatuer who was never pro material, even had he went pro pre Barcelona. His style is just not suited for the game.

I could be wrong about Nevin, but from what I see I don't think he is suited to the game. A guy like Frampton is.

this is a prime example of the point you are making. Nevin is the far better amateur fighter, whereas Frampton is the far better pro. They are just cut from different cloth.

Basically, amateurs are concerned with winning rounds. Some pros with less skill and more power, aggression etc.. are confident giving up rounds in order to walk down their opponent looking for a stoppage in the second half of the fight.

We can have no idea how Nevin would deal with this. To carry out his style of fighting you need to fight a punch perfect fight to keep his man off.

Paul McCloskey employs the style of fighting (tries to fight without having a glove laid upon him) and its successful to a certain level. At world level you need to engage, its not enough to simply not get hit.

If I was to put my house on it, i'd say Nevin is all wrong for the pro game but he could surprise everyone. Definately needs to alter his style though and when you have to do that then anything can happen.

endswell

Jayob10 wrote: »

this is a prime example of the point you are making. Nevin is the far better amateur fighter, whereas Frampton is the far better pro. They are just cut from different cloth.

Basically, amateurs are concerned with winning rounds. Some pros with less skill and more power, aggression etc.. are confident giving up rounds in order to walk down their opponent looking for a stoppage in the second half of the fight.

We can have no idea how Nevin would deal with this. To carry out his style of fighting you need to fight a punch perfect fight to keep his man off.

Paul McCloskey employs the style of fighting (tries to fight without having a glove laid upon him) and its successful to a certain level. At world level you need to engage, its not enough to simply not get hit.

If I was to put my house on it, i'd say Nevin is all wrong for the pro game but he could surprise everyone. Definately needs to alter his style though and when you have to do that then anything can happen.

mccloskey has split with breen btw so will be interesting to see develops style a bit and maybe even doubles up on combos.

there have been so many different successful styles in pro game, i dont think its possible to box nevin off as someone who wont be able to. if you can apply your strengths better than your opponent can, why not.

just looking at jamie kavanagh the other night, i mean, if he can, why not nevin...he's taking SO much punishment (dangerous long term too) but scoring just a bit more than opponent.

also, if nevin finds himself behind in a 6/8/10 rounder, he doesnt need to worry as much as if he was in a 3 rounder. usb 5 rounder prob a help

megadodge

Jayob10 wrote: »

this is a prime example of the point you are making. Nevin is the far better amateur fighter, whereas Frampton is the far better pro. They are just cut from different cloth.

And how exactly can you prove that?

Nevin has never fought pro!

walshb

endswell wrote: »

just looking at jamie kavanagh the other night, i mean, if he can, why not nevin...he's taking SO much punishment (dangerous long term too) but scoring just a bit more than opponent.

also, if nevin finds himself behind in a 6/8/10 rounder, he doesnt need to worry as much as if he was in a 3 rounder. usb 5 rounder prob a help

Yes, but I did make a point that Nevin could build up a winning and padded record. My issue is that I don't see his style being one that could cut it near the top. Jamie Kavanagh has fought nobody. I am not writing Nevin off here, just not near ready to commit to thinking that he could be a good to very good pro. It's just a prediction. Far out, I know, but a prediction nonetheless!

Another prediction I would make is that IF Nevin was swamped and put under heavy PRO pressure, I don't think his style and body and constitution would handle it all that well.

As Jayob10 says, pros are cut from a different cloth. Sure, many great pros were good to great amateurs. I do realsie this. But many great amateurs were not cut out for the heavy and intense pro game.