Zombies would pose little or no threat

BogMonkey

I've put a lot of thought into zombie invasion type scenarios because they would be great fun but when you think about it, zombies would pose absolutely no threat if you're prepared. Just cover yourself from head to toe in kevlar. Knifes can't cut through kevlar, let alone human teeth. If you suddenly found yourself in a zombie situation though, you're not gonna be able to get your hands on kevlar clothes so you'd have to improvise by wearing leather jacket, leather gloves, a motorbike helmet and 3 or 4 pairs of jeans. With all that, you'd be invulnerable.

degrassinoel

BogMonkey wrote: »

I've put a lot of thought into zombie invasion type scenarios because they would be great fun but when you think about it, zombies would pose absolutely no threat if you're prepared. Just cover yourself from head to toe in kevlar. Knifes can't cut through kevlar, let alone human teeth. If you suddenly found yourself in a zombie situation though, you're not gonna be able to get your hands on kevlar clothes so you'd have to improvise by wearing leather jacket, leather gloves, a motorbike helmet and 3 or 4 pairs of jeans. With all that, you'd be invulnerable.

plenty of ways to skin a cat, virus could be airbourne, you could already have it before you know it, a spash of blood in the eye or mouth, or open cut, contaminated food/animals/water.. would make you an incredibly hard zombie to kill.

BogMonkey

Yeah thats true, I was thinking vulnerable in terms of getting eaten alive by the zombies. Vulnerability to infection is a different matter altogether. If it were a strain of bacteria causing the infection then you could arm yourself with a wide range of different antibiotics but with a virus, you'd be in trouble. Different viruses have different mechanisms of action so in many cases, an antivirus needs to be developed specifically for one class of virus. In reality the people who would survive are the military and government.

On the other hand if a small percentage of people were immune to the virus, then the survivors would be dispersed all over.

Micky Dolenz

The freshly infected would have no bother biting through skin.

One zed, no bother. 10 zeds, still alright. 100 zeds, a 1000 zeds. Numbers and hordes are the issue.

thermo

BogMonkey wrote: »

you're not gonna be able to get your hands on kevlar clothes

you could make a kevlar suit from fire blankets. a good percentage of modern fire blankets are made from kevlar so it would be handy to pick a few up.

Zomg Okay

BogMonkey wrote: »

In reality the people who would survive are the military and government.

The military would be on the front lines during the apocalypse, I think they'd be among the first to go rather than the last. Keep in mind as well that the army would see hundreds, if not thousands, of deserters running off with army issued Steyrs and ammunition to defend their families with. I don't think they'd last as long as you'd expect them too.

As for the government... bah, they're already zombies.

BigDuffman

Zomg Okay wrote: »

The military would be on the front lines during the apocalypse, I think they'd be among the first to go rather than the last. Keep in mind as well that the army would see hundreds, if not thousands, of deserters running off with army issued Steyrs and ammunition to defend their families with. I don't think they'd last as long as you'd expect them too.

As for the government... bah, they're already zombies.

You'd definitely see desertions. But I think as a whole the majority of soldiers would understand the merit in presenting a unified front to contain outbreaks and the need for them to continue working in cohesive units.

I'd imagine the initial strategy would be to clear an area and declare "safe zones". Which would then be protected. Keeping in mind Irelands population density. This should not be a huge issue to establish.

Once their families are in safe zones. They could then continue to operate as per organization and orders.

Footy101

Best thread ever. Mainly for the level of detail in the posts :-)

BogMonkey

thermo wrote: »

you could make a kevlar suit from fire blankets. a good percentage of modern fire blankets are made from kevlar so it would be handy to pick a few up.

You sure thats not nomex? Nomex is a fire retardant polymer that they use in firefighers jackets. Not sure about fire blankets though.

thermo

BogMonkey wrote: »

You sure thats not nomex? Nomex is a fire retardant polymer that they use in firefighers jackets. Not sure about fire blankets though.

the one in the kitchen says it kevlar on the label

Tzar Chasm

Yeah you can protect herself from zonbie bites and zonbie infection to an extent, But your main enemy is going to be isolation paranoia and depression.

Even i n a best case scenario, let's say you have a walled compound with a comfortable dwelling and ample food stocks and agricultural provisions fresh water and access to the sea which enable you and a small bunch to hold out indefinitely (i've just thought of the perfect location here in wexford) there's still an apocalypse on the other side of the compound wall. There will eventually be a horde on the outside moaning and scratching and generally ruining yer buzz.

You may be stocked up on equipment and ready for battle, but are you prepared for the long tedium of compound life, with no internet, no tv and no contact with the outside world except the odd gang of raiders intent on killing you

Whatever about kevlar clothing (my old fencing jacket was lined with it, as I recall... shame that the years have slightly expanded my girth!), you might want to check out this article:

http://www.cracked.com/article_18683_7-scientific-reasons-zombie-outbreak-would-fail-quickly.html

Makes for interesting reading.

Regards,
Druss.

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www.huntforageharvest.com

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http://twitter.com/#!/druss_rua

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NegativeCreep

Would you not be better off getting infected? You know, an "if you can't beat them, join them" type situation. I wouldn't mind being a zombie really :P

Micky Dolenz

NegativeCreep wrote: »

Would you not be better off getting infected? You know, an "if you can't beat them, join them" type situation. I wouldn't mind being a zombie really :P

Who's saying you can't beat them?

Around here we call people like you, food

666irishguy

Assuming the Zombies are the standard brain-dead variety that shuffle around (or run at best) and can only transmit the virus by bite, they would be royally f***ed if the military could get organised fast enough and recognised the danger in time. If the outbreak was gradually increasing in intensity they would probably have the time to form up large coordinated units with the reserves activated, ammunition stocks distributed and probably anybody with past military experience or police officers given whatever spare weapons there might be to bolster the numbers. They would also probably have a fair few ordinary Joe's with their double barrels or rifles sweeping local areas or acting as rear echelons. You could probably include the cops in the north and whatever resources they might have to spare assuming it wasn't island wide.

Even a small army like ours operating in battalion sized units with reserves and additional help, would easily mow down a huge number of what would essentially be unprotected targets wandering around in the open. I doubt desertion would be a large problem as the soldiers would more than likely follow their orders. There would probably be the odd guy deciding he doesn't want to shoot what would essentially be sick civilians or like has already been stated, wants to get back and protect his own family.

The problem would more than likely be an urban centred one, as the lower population density in the rural parts of the country would help slow down the rate of infection and make it easier to pick off the odd infected group or individual. The hardest job would be clearing places like Dublin and Cork where it would involve systematic searches of buildings and a potentially huge undead population.

If the outbreak was massive and sudden, with the authorities having no time to get a coordinated plan or at best deploy the army in sufficient numbers at the right places, it would be anybody's guess as to how much of a threat they would be. The military would probably kill off every zombie that might appear in the area they are stationed, but it would lead to just a few totally secure pockets in the whole country. Army units in the larger cities would probably be under siege and slowly running out of ammo and supplies, as I doubt for example the army battalion stationed in Cork would be able to effectively secure the city or not end up surrounded by perhaps tens of thousands of undead with not enough ammo at hand to kill them all. Rural areas would fare somewhat better due to distance between population centres and the fact that there might be a higher number of civilians with access to firearms or even agricultural equipment that could double up as effective weapons (I'd would put forward using the combine harvester). :eek:

BogMonkey

Tzar Chasm wrote: »

You may be stocked up on equipment and ready for battle, but are you prepared for the long tedium of compound life, with no internet, no tv and no contact with the outside world except the odd gang of raiders intent on killing you

God help any raiders that tried to break into wherever I'd be held up. I'd booby trap the place so badly that even I'd probably end up getting killed on my way out or in.

ScumLord

BogMonkey wrote: »

I've put a lot of thought into zombie invasion type scenarios because they would be great fun but when you think about it, zombies would pose absolutely no threat if you're prepared. Just cover yourself from head to toe in kevlar. Knifes can't cut through kevlar, let alone human teeth. If you suddenly found yourself in a zombie situation though, you're not gonna be able to get your hands on kevlar clothes so you'd have to improvise by wearing leather jacket, leather gloves, a motorbike helmet and 3 or 4 pairs of jeans. With all that, you'd be invulnerable.

The zombie itself isn't the real danger its the disease they carry. Zombies become dangerous in a horde, you'd wish for death being stuck at the bottom of a horde facing starvation. Your armor will also make you a sitting duck for people and prone to clumbsy accidents

Corvo

Lads, the likelyhood is as soon as it broke out the Yanks would just bomb us back to the stone age

degrassinoel

depends on where the outbreak began, if it began here.. maybe, but there's not one american politician would'd risk losing irish-american votes by dropping bombs on the old country, not one!

Micky Dolenz

One word, quarantine.

We'd be very much on our own for the first 6-12 months I'd suspect.

Corvo

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

One word, quarantine.

We'd be very much on our own for the first 6-12 months I'd suspect.

If it did start here I'd say it would be a case of a nationwide carpet bombing in order to ensure it did not spread to the UK

Jason Todd

Griffin1988 wrote: »

If it did start here I'd say it would be a case of a nationwide carpet bombing in order to ensure it did not spread to the UK

Harsh. :pac:

Corvo

Jason Todd wrote: »

Harsh. :pac:

Good job I'm not in charge

Tzar Chasm

I doubt that they would do that somehow, it wouldn't be in their own self interest, if we were truly up the wazoo their best option for containment would be assistance and screening refugees, I can guarantee you that if there was even a whiff of area bombing the west coast of britain would be a dangerous place to be, all we would have to do is fill a boat with diese,l tie the tiller on a n/ne heading, fill er with z's and bingo biological warfare on an epic scale.

Could you imagine the chaos as thousands of boats undetectable by radar start landing along the entire length of their coast.

Wouldn't take much effort to coordinate either

666irishguy

Tzar Chasm wrote: »

I doubt that they would do that somehow, it wouldn't be in their own self interest, if we were truly up the wazoo their best option for containment would be assistance and screening refugees, I can guarantee you that if there was even a whiff of area bombing the west coast of britain would be a dangerous place to be, all we would have to do is fill a boat with diese,l tie the tiller on a n/ne heading, fill er with z's and bingo biological warfare on an epic scale.

Could you imagine the chaos as thousands of boats undetectable by radar start landing along the entire length of their coast.

Wouldn't take much effort to coordinate either

I'm sure the English press wouldn't find this hungry mass of Paddies so funny.

degrassinoel

Just aim them all at sellafield, nobody'll know the difference!

Tzar Chasm

With the prevailing currents a lot of whst would be launched from dublin would end up there anyway.

Boats launched from near me would have a fair chance of catch in the Georges channel and win in up in either bristol or the cornish coast, stuff from the north is ca different story, that's nearly line of sight to scotland in some cases(must remember to kit those ones out in a bowler hat and sash )

Grizzly 45

degrassinoel wrote: »

depends on where the outbreak began, if it began here.. maybe, but there's not one american politician would'd risk losing irish-american votes by dropping bombs on the old country, not one!

Dont be so sure of that either...
As Mr Spock once said "The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few."
Nor would they need to carpet bomb us.One sub launched MIRV proably from the UK or France,who have very effective nuke capability targeted at Dublin,Belfast[proably],Cork,Limerick,Galway,and Waterford,and thats the end of it. Maybe use "daisy cutter" fuel air bombs on the smaller towns where there might be still pockets odf the virus and thats the job done.
Or maybe ask Russia if they could borrow a Tsar Bomb[The biggest nuke ever detonated on the planet],and virtually vaporise the entire 32 counties in one go..:eek:

Kess73

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Dont be so sure of that either...
As Mr Spock once said "The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few."
Nor would they need to carpet bomb us.One sub launched MIRV proably from the UK or France,who have very effective nuke capability targeted at Dublin,Belfast[proably],Cork,Limerick,Galway,and Waterford,and thats the end of it. Maybe use "daisy cutter" fuel air bombs on the smaller towns where there might be still pockets odf the virus and thats the job done.
Or maybe ask Russia if they could borrow a Tsar Bomb[The biggest nuke ever detonated on the planet],and virtually vaporise the entire 32 counties in one go..:eek:

You would need a few of them to take out Ireland. One on it's own would do serious damage but the area of total destruction would be small compared to the size of the country. Would be huge radiation fall out alright, but there is no guarantee that would stop the zeds.

degrassinoel

That's another reason they wouldn't use nukes, the fallout would not be restricted to this island, with Britain, Holland and France withing farting distance aswell as Iceland, the risk of collateral fallout contamination would be too great, if anything nukes would be a last desperate resort. By the time any politician got to that stage of desperation s/he'd be more worried about an infected refugee, mass paranoia, quarantine and his/her own security. Same could be said for any military leader.

Daisycutters would be more viable, localised incineration - though again, comes with their own problems, they may not actually kill the virus (it's not ebola) and could just as easily spread the virus further or force it to become airbourne, or even cross species through carrion eaters.

If, it was to be done, it wouldn't be America nuking Ireland, it'd be British forces in a final desperate act to contain the spread.

Grizzly 45

Kess73 wrote: »

You would need a few of them to take out Ireland. One on it's own would do serious damage but the area of total destruction would be small compared to the size of the country. Would be huge radiation fall out alright, but there is no guarantee that would stop the zeds.

Have you ever seen what the damage radius is for "bomba Tzar"??:eek::eek:
This is a bomb whose shockwave was felt and recorded going around the planet THREE times!!

Just a little history of it

Designed as a 100 Megaton device, due to its 3 stage design: fission-fusion-fission. There is fission initiator that when detonated, begins a fusion reaction. Then there is a further fission detonation of a Uranium tamper which boosts the yield by 50 Megatons.

For the test, the Tsar had its Uranium tamper replaced with lead to reduce the maximum yield by half (To 50 Megatons).

The blast yield was equal to that of a blast of 57,000,000 Tonnes of TNT....or to put that into context: The weight of 270 Empire State Buildings worth of TNT. This makes the Tsar the most powerful nuclear device ever detonated in history.

The Tsar was 3800 times more powerful than Hiroshima.

The bomb's weight was 27 tonnes, and its dimensions were: 8 meters (26ft) in length, and 2 meters (6.5ft) in diameter.

It was air-dropped, from a modified Tupolev Tu-95 Bear, and it used a nylon parachute to slow its decent to give the crew time to escape.

The bomb was dropped from an altitude of 34,500 feet AGL (10,500 meters), and it detonated a little over three minutes later at an altitude of 13,100 feet AGL (4,000 meters). In this time: The Tu-95, travelling at a ground speed of 480kts (552mph, 864kph), travelled into the safe zone (about 45km from ground zero) and was therefore 79km away from the blast.

When the bomb detonated, immediately the temperature directly below and surrounding the detonation would have risen to millions of degrees. The pressure below the blast was 300 pounds per square inch, over three times the pressure in a car tyre. The light energy released was so powerful that it was visible even at 1000km (621 miles), with cloudy skies. The shockwave was powerful enough to break windows at even up to 900 kilometres (560 miles) from the blast. The shockwave was recorded orbiting the earth 3 times. The mushroom cloud rose to an altitude of 64,000 meters (210,000 feet) before levelling out. The thermal energy from the blast was powerful that it could cause 3rd degree burns to a human standing 100 km (62 miles) away from the blast.

The radius of the fireball was 2.3 kilometres (1.4 miles). The blast radius (area in which total destruction ensured) was 13km (8 miles).

The most important thing to note is that this bomb was designed as a 100 Megaton device (Yield equivalent of 0.1 trillion tonnes of TNT). If detonated, everything within a 48 kilometer (30 mile) diameter would be vaporised. Everything within a 195 kilometer (120 mile) diameter would be incinerated in a fireball. This would ensure total destruction of a large city like New York, Paris or London.


In short enough to ruin our survivors and any Z's whole day in Ireland.:p

http://www.carloslabs.com/node/16

A handy little nuke yield calculator.Used to be better it had it suitcase size and then fallout plumes calculation depending on what wind inputs you wanted.
Brings me onto point two

That's another reason they wouldn't use nukes, the fallout would not be restricted to this island, with Britain, Holland and France withing farting distance aswell as Iceland, the risk of collateral fallout contamination would be too great, if anything nukes would be a last desperate resort.

Depending on wind direction,and prevelant weather conditions on the actual day of the blast.Fallout might be carried out into the Atlantic,or reach the UK in such small amounts to be negligble.if it is raining[very possible here] the fallout cloud will be suffering severe dissipitation right off.As well as that as a fallout cloud travels the further it goes from the blast site the weaker the fallout cloud becomes.
You can be sure they will endevour for a rainy Eastly wind type day.

By the time any politician got to that stage of desperation s/he'd be more worried about an infected refugee, mass paranoia, quarantine and his/her own security. Same could be said for any military leader.

Never underestimate the stupidity of politicans or the fear of a paniced pouplance.The choice of some fallout,which is easily enough dealt with or horrific death by being lunched on by the living dead,and who happen to be on a pretty unimportant bit of Europe off the mainland where the plauge is more or less contained.....BUT there might be a risk of it getting off into the UK or Europe...I dont think for one minute somone would say nuke Ireland to destroy this plauge like yesterday!!! there would be many objections.

Daisycutters would be more viable, localised incineration - though again, comes with their own problems, they may not actually kill the virus (it's not ebola) and could just as easily spread the virus further or force it to become airbourne, or even cross species through carrion eaters.

Exactly,we dont know,cant know,as this is still a fictious scenario.
However lets ASSume it will obey a few rules of science and biology???
IOW one of the greatest destroyers of organic life here is heat..
Cant get much hotter than a nuke bomb going off. The daisy cutters,[and I see you were watching "outbreak":P] are the most powerful NON nuke weapons on the planet at the moment and they produce somthing like if I remember right about 2000 degrees farenheit in their fire ball..Which I think is actually enought to kill any known viral or bacterilogical lifeform..Could be wrong???

degrassinoel

IOW one of the greatest destroyers of organic life here is heat..
Cant get much hotter than a nuke bomb going off. The daisy cutters,[and I see you were watching "outbreak"] are the most powerful NON nuke weapons on the planet at the moment and they produce somthing like if I remember right about 2000 degrees farenheit in their fire ball..Which I think is actually enought to kill any known viral or bacterilogical lifeform..Could be wrong???

Just on those points, yep definetly heat is the great destroyer, and you were partially right about the film outbreak, also the series' Jeremiah and Jericho, and the game command and conquer generals all have references to fuel air bombs, specifically daisycutters.
I'm fairly certain that anything with it's kill range would be destroyed absolutely, however not all organisms can be killed with the level of extreme heat that daisycutters are capable of. Extremeophiles for instance thrive in conditions previously thought unable to contain any form of life. It's possible though highly unlikely that anything could survive. Then again, it's zombies we're talking about here

ScumLord

I don't see anybody nuking Ireland. The Brits wouldn't risk it and there's little danger to the rest of the world from an outbreak in Ireland.

What they would see is the opportunity to seize Ireland as a strategic peace of land. It's ports and runways are already worth a lot to international trade and I'm sure the Brits and Yanks would love to have it as a military outpost as it gives them a good base for control of the Atlantic, the Americans are already using Ireland as much as they can as a staging post to battles in the middle east, they would only love to have complete control of the island.

There's also the agribusiness possibilities, for such a small island we can produce a lot of food, we are already supplying europe with a lot of meat and dairy.

Then you have the oil and gas reserves.

If anything I could see the US and Europe going head to head to get onto the island should it become uninhabitable to citizens and blowing it up wouldn't be the prefered option in any way.

Kess73

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Have you ever seen what the damage radius is for "bomba Tzar"??:eek::eek:
This is a bomb whose shockwave was felt and recorded going around the planet THREE times!!

Just a little history of it

Designed as a 100 Megaton device, due to its 3 stage design: fission-fusion-fission. There is fission initiator that when detonated, begins a fusion reaction. Then there is a further fission detonation of a Uranium tamper which boosts the yield by 50 Megatons.

For the test, the Tsar had its Uranium tamper replaced with lead to reduce the maximum yield by half (To 50 Megatons).

The blast yield was equal to that of a blast of 57,000,000 Tonnes of TNT....or to put that into context: The weight of 270 Empire State Buildings worth of TNT. This makes the Tsar the most powerful nuclear device ever detonated in history.

The Tsar was 3800 times more powerful than Hiroshima.

The bomb's weight was 27 tonnes, and its dimensions were: 8 meters (26ft) in length, and 2 meters (6.5ft) in diameter.

It was air-dropped, from a modified Tupolev Tu-95 Bear, and it used a nylon parachute to slow its decent to give the crew time to escape.

The bomb was dropped from an altitude of 34,500 feet AGL (10,500 meters), and it detonated a little over three minutes later at an altitude of 13,100 feet AGL (4,000 meters). In this time: The Tu-95, travelling at a ground speed of 480kts (552mph, 864kph), travelled into the safe zone (about 45km from ground zero) and was therefore 79km away from the blast.

When the bomb detonated, immediately the temperature directly below and surrounding the detonation would have risen to millions of degrees. The pressure below the blast was 300 pounds per square inch, over three times the pressure in a car tyre. The light energy released was so powerful that it was visible even at 1000km (621 miles), with cloudy skies. The shockwave was powerful enough to break windows at even up to 900 kilometres (560 miles) from the blast. The shockwave was recorded orbiting the earth 3 times. The mushroom cloud rose to an altitude of 64,000 meters (210,000 feet) before levelling out. The thermal energy from the blast was powerful that it could cause 3rd degree burns to a human standing 100 km (62 miles) away from the blast.

The radius of the fireball was 2.3 kilometres (1.4 miles). The blast radius (area in which total destruction ensured) was 13km (8 miles).

The most important thing to note is that this bomb was designed as a 100 Megaton device (Yield equivalent of 0.1 trillion tonnes of TNT). If detonated, everything within a 48 kilometer (30 mile) diameter would be vaporised. Everything within a 195 kilometer (120 mile) diameter would be incinerated in a fireball. This would ensure total destruction of a large city like New York, Paris or London.


In short enough to ruin our survivors and any Z's whole day in Ireland.:p

http://www.carloslabs.com/node/16

A handy little nuke yield calculator.Used to be better it had it suitcase size and then fallout plumes calculation depending on what wind inputs you wanted.
Brings me onto point two




Depending on wind direction,and prevelant weather conditions on the actual day of the blast.Fallout might be carried out into the Atlantic,or reach the UK in such small amounts to be negligble.if it is raining[very possible here] the fallout cloud will be suffering severe dissipitation right off.As well as that as a fallout cloud travels the further it goes from the blast site the weaker the fallout cloud becomes.
You can be sure they will endevour for a rainy Eastly wind type day.




Never underestimate the stupidity of politicans or the fear of a paniced pouplance.The choice of some fallout,which is easily enough dealt with or horrific death by being lunched on by the living dead,and who happen to be on a pretty unimportant bit of Europe off the mainland where the plauge is more or less contained.....BUT there might be a risk of it getting off into the UK or Europe...I dont think for one minute somone would say nuke Ireland to destroy this plauge like yesterday!!! there would be many objections.



Exactly,we dont know,cant know,as this is still a fictious scenario.
However lets ASSume it will obey a few rules of science and biology???
IOW one of the greatest destroyers of organic life here is heat..
Cant get much hotter than a nuke bomb going off. The daisy cutters,[and I see you were watching "outbreak":P] are the most powerful NON nuke weapons on the planet at the moment and they produce somthing like if I remember right about 2000 degrees farenheit in their fire ball..Which I think is actually enought to kill any known viral or bacterilogical lifeform..Could be wrong???

I have read up on it, and in terms of immediate lethal force we are talking about a 30 to 55 km distance from point of detonation.

The further from that blast zone you are the less effective it is on stone or metal structures

Also the distance the shockwaves travelled was meant to be increased due to the fact it was detonated 4km above the ground. A ground level detonation would be devastating to anything or anyone within that 30 to 55km limit but a lot of it's force would go straight into the ground and it would not see similar shockwaves travelling hundreds of km as the airborne detonation did.

What a Tsar bomb detonation (if it was a singular detonation) would be relying on in a Zed infested Ireland would be for the zeds to succumb to radiation. If radiation could not finish them off them all that would happen is that anything living, and outside the blast zone, would have a painful death from radiation to look forward to and those that dropped the bomb would still be looking at an island with a zed infestation.

The tsar bomb approach would require a number of tsar bombs to be used if a country the size of Ireland was to be totally levelled.

Also I am not sure where you are getting your fireball of 195km from. The one and only tsar bomb that was detonated had a fireball with a radius of 3.5 km. The theoritical work on the 50mt device saw estimations of a fireball of close to 50km but when detonated it only reached the aforementioned 3.5km (2.2m) in reality so any talk of a 195m fireball is theoritical and completely unproven in the real world.

The 100 MT device is one that lies utterly in the realms of theoritical ifs and buts in terms of what it would do. The 50 MT device ended up blowing most of it's fireball in an upward direction in reality so in theory the exact same thing could happen with a 100MT device.

All we can actually work on is what actually happened with the tsar bomb was set off, and the results of that on detonation over a sparsley populated and somewhat flat area strongly suggest that more than one would be needed.

Also we are talking about zombies so what we currently know of biology and science may not apply to them in terms of radiation. Most people tend to discount a lot of basic biology when it comes to Zeds so that the Solanum virus and it's effects can be shoehorned in. If we are to take Solanum out of the picture then we don't need nukes because zeds will only last as long as any other carcass that is exposed to nature.

If we are to accept Solanum and that it causes insects, scavengers etc to avoid feeding on zed flesh then it becomes plausible that radiation may not have the same impact upon a zed infected with the Solanum virus as it would on a living human.

Grizzly 45

[

QUOTE=ScumLord;81388963]I don't see anybody nuking Ireland. The Brits wouldn't risk it and there's little danger to the rest of the world from an outbreak in Ireland.

With all due respects..Thats like the Frenchman who was sickned by world war one,so he moved to a little island off the beaten track ,with only a disused coaling station on this island paradise and a ship dropping supplies off in the 1930s.The island was Leyte !!!Which became quite a hot spot in the Pacific in the 1940s:D
Point is,things can come from the most unlikelist of places..Thats why I suggest a read of the white plauge,as we are only guessing wether the z plauge will be natural or man made ,either deliberate or by accident.

What they would see is the opportunity to seize Ireland as a strategic peace of land. It's ports and runways are already worth a lot to international trade and I'm sure the Brits and Yanks would love to have it as a military outpost as it gives them a good base for control of the Atlantic,

Maybe back in the 1940s to 1970s with limited bomber range or sub range,but by the 1980s Irelands strategic value to anybody was negligble.NATO recognised that Ireland would be a proable 1st strike or high 2nd strike by the Sovs to deny NATO its use.

Anyways, I doubt with a possible global pandemic trade on an international level wont be happening,and the strategic location of Ireland is kind of irrevelant unless the Z's start putting together a viable armed force of some kind??;):)

the Americans are already using Ireland as much as they can as a staging post to battles in the middle east, they would only love to have complete control of the island.

Ahem!! I hate to tell you but its kind of winding down in the Sandpits!!
They are gone out of Iraq,and will be out of Ghanistan proably by 2015.
Why would the US taxpayer want control of a bankrupt rock in the middle of the Atlantic,that all it does is export people mostly to the USA??
No benefit to them whatsoever to control Ireland,llet it be Europes headache and Europe already does control us...
Kind of OT re zombies in Ireland ???

There's also the agribusiness possibilities, for such a small island we can produce a lot of food, we are already supplying europe with a lot of meat and dairy.

Yes,its called a monoculture.. IE Cows ,or better said grass for cows.
There are very few if any diverseifying farms left.Thats the traditional farm that had ,cows ,pigs, a spud patch,etc..It is that kind of a farm you need to be able to produce a survival crop .
Takes an awful lot of skill to turn pasture land into viable crop land,and the equipment to do so isnt available on every farm anymore [IE ploughs,harrows etc] as it isnt revelant to a dairy /beef enterprise.

Again,I cant see either the US or UK invading us for our Kerrygold in the Z pandemic.

Then you have the oil and gas reserves.

Will you need those with the worlds pouplation rapidly dying off??
Cant see many of us taking a holiday somplace??

If anything I could see the US and Europe going head to head to get onto the island should it become uninhabitable to citizens and blowing it up wouldn't be the prefered option in any way.

What for???Even if we had gold plasterd streets and guiness coming out of the water taps pre Z times,no one sane is going to send anyone to a country that is riddled with an uncureable extremely infectious plauge,no matter what its value is.

Put it like this as we are speaking of nukes.Say I found for you a artifically created diamond at ground zero from the blast thats bigger than the Cullinan stone,its worth millions right away to anyone but it is super radioactively hot,and will kill anyone without a lead suit within 72 hours+/-
Would you like to have it as a pendant???:)
That would be the same anaology here.. Beautiful,worth alot but deadly,as you dont know does it cross contaminate with food and water either.

Simple fact is when we are talking zombie survival there are too many factors of X and Y and proables and varients to give any cohesive answer to any scenario.

Grizzly 45

QUOTE=Kess73;81394504]I have read up on it, and in terms of immediate lethal force we are talking about a 30 to 55 km distance from point of detonation.[/QUOTE]

So lets say the greater Dublin/Meath/kildare area,where most of Sthn Irelands pouplation alive or dead would proably be.

Also the distance the shockwaves travelled was meant to be increased due to the fact it was detonated 4km above the ground. A ground level detonation would be devastating to anything or anyone within that 30 to 55km limit but a lot of it's force would go straight into the ground and it would not see similar shockwaves travelling hundreds of km as the airborne detonation did.

Which it most likely would be as you want clean ground.

What a Tsar bomb detonation (if it was a singular detonation) would be relying on in a Zed infested Ireland would be for the zeds to succumb to radiation. If radiation could not finish them off them all that would happen is that anything living, and outside the blast zone, would have a painful death from radiation to look forward to and those that dropped the bomb would still be looking at an island with a zed infestation.

Think you would be looking at mass burning or blast destruction of the Z's first,radiation,not really as it proably wouldnt serve any purpose

The tsar bomb approach would require a number of tsar bombs to be used if a country the size of Ireland was to be totally levelled.

Again where are you going to drop them that would do the most effect/damage??Pouplation centres over 1 million as that is where the infections are most likely to be . So Belfast,Dublin,Cork,feck it why not!!!:pac: All the rest.Meh I suppose somthing smaller would be in order...:P

Also I am not sure where you are getting your fireball of 195km from.

Correct a typo on my part!!:o

All we can actually work on is what actually happened with the tsar bomb was set off, and the results of that on detonation over a sparsley populated and somewhat flat area strongly suggest that more than one would be needed.

Sparsely pouplated it was however you might want to see what the Russians dragged in there in equipment ,houses, purpose built steel buildings vechicles ,aircraft etc,etc.Think they allowed somthing like two divisions of obsolete equipment to be destroyed in this test.

Also we are talking about zombies so what we currently know of biology and science may not apply to them in terms of radiation. Most people tend to discount a lot of basic biology when it comes to Zeds so that the Solanum virus and it's effects can be shoehorned in. If we are to take Solanum out of the picture then we don't need nukes because zeds will only last as long as any other carcass that is exposed to nature.

Cant fault your logic there...Again Xand Y's and varibles..
However all I'm espousing is the theory of "what if Ireland was the core of the infection,what would the rest of the World do?[as per thread ]
Hopefully they will send in massive amounts of researchers ,money grub and armed troops,but I belive that if all their remote cameras show is dead Irish people shuffling about going" Brrrainns,Dooooolllleee,Drrrrinnnnkkkk!!!
":D I dont think they will let a contaigon like that loose on the rest of the world:eek:

If we are to accept Solanum and that it causes insects, scavengers etc to avoid feeding on zed flesh then it becomes plausible that radiation may not have the same impact upon a zed infected with the Solanum virus as it would on a living human.

Very true,but I think they would be relying more on the burn/blast effect rather than radiation,and again as said we have to accept that "solanum" could possibly exist,.

ScumLord

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

[

Maybe back in the 1940s to 1970s with limited bomber range or sub range,but by the 1980s Irelands strategic value to anybody was negligble.NATO recognised that Ireland would be a proable 1st strike or high 2nd strike by the Sovs to deny NATO its use.

Bombers still have limited range, they don't have one that can fly from the US to any target in the world and back, they need somewhere to refuel. If Ireland has no indigenous population left they can stop paying other countries for the right to land and refuel and use Ireland instead. No country on the planet can realistically hope to stand up to the US, they spend more on their military than the majority of the worlds countries combined. The closest military spend to the US is China at $70 billion and still comes nowhere close to the $700 billion the US spends every year.

Anyways, I doubt with a possible global pandemic trade on an international level wont be happening,and the strategic location of Ireland is kind of irrevelant unless the Z's start putting together a viable armed force of some kind??;):)

Ireland is perfectly positioned to be in range of the US and opens up Europe, Eurasia and the middle east. It would give the Americans global coverage.

Ahem!! I hate to tell you but its kind of winding down in the Sandpits!!
They are gone out of Iraq,and will be out of Ghanistan proably by 2015.
Why would the US taxpayer want control of a bankrupt rock in the middle of the Atlantic,that all it does is export people mostly to the USA??

We're not talking about US taxpayers or a bankrupt country, we're talking about a deserted island and Americans in fear for their lives. While the current climate means America can pull out of middle east (they won't be doing that regardless of what they're telling the general population) if the situation changes and global powers think there's a power vacuum it changes everything.

No benefit to them whatsoever to control Ireland,llet it be Europes headache and Europe already does control us...
Kind of OT re zombies in Ireland ???

Like I said, Ireland is uniquely positioned to be a staging point for the US.

Yes,its called a monoculture.. IE Cows ,or better said grass for cows.
There are very few if any diverseifying farms left.Thats the traditional farm that had ,cows ,pigs, a spud patch,etc..It is that kind of a farm you need to be able to produce a survival crop .
Takes an awful lot of skill to turn pasture land into viable crop land,and the equipment to do so isnt available on every farm anymore [IE ploughs,harrows etc] as it isnt revelant to a dairy /beef enterprise.

Small farms that diversify are a thing of the past you have to produce in bulk to make profit, Ireland can't grow crops well but we're ideal for raising animals and compared to the American system of reclaiming land and intensive animal producing farms Irelands general climate is perfect. McDonalds supply the majority of their restaurants in Europe with Irish beef. We produce enough milk to feed 40 million people. The Chinese buy chickens off us. When it comes to raising meat products we're a major player on the global stage. We can produce that much beef naturally and organically too, no need for massive investment.

Will you need those with the worlds pouplation rapidly dying off??

Of course you will, peak oil has happened, production is declining and armies require lots of oil.

What for???Even if we had gold plasterd streets and guiness coming out of the water taps pre Z times,no one sane is going to send anyone to a country that is riddled with an uncureable extremely infectious plauge,no matter what its value is.

That's possible but zombies can only last 5 - 10 years until they're completely destroyed by weathering. Then you'll have a perfectly habitable and productive island empty of civilization. If the disease is contained on the island you could see Irish people returning to repopulate the island but if it spreads and the global power balance is affected it could become a flashpoint.

Put it like this as we are speaking of nukes.Say I found for you a artifically created diamond at ground zero from the blast thats bigger than the Cullinan stone,its worth millions right away to anyone but it is super radioactively hot,and will kill anyone without a lead suit within 72 hours+/-
Would you like to have it as a pendant???:)

Such a diamond is worthless to anyone outside of the jewelry trade. Diamonds are as common as muck and can easily be produced artificially. The diamond trade is a completely fabricated brand that people have bought into and believe. Ireland has real value, oil and gas, mild climate suitable to raising animals, perfectly situated between Europe and the US making it a gateway to Europe, Africa, the middle east and Russia. Just because Irish people aren't able to reap the benefits of this country due to incompetence doesn't mean other countries wouldn't make full use of it's positive aspects given half the chance.

Grizzly 45

[

QUOTE=ScumLord;81396165]Bombers still have limited range, they don't have one that can fly from the US to any target in the world and back, they need somewhere to refuel.

Errr,have you heard of airborne refuelling????:) The USAF has been doing this since the late 1940s for the very simple reason that it avoids bombers having to land at bases where they could be hit.
Plus with the advent of ICBMS even the bombers are aout dated technology.EG the B52 is actually 60 years this month in service,the russkie T72 even longer.
Ergo,Ireland as a refuelling base is moot.

If Ireland has no indigenous population left they can stop paying other countries for the right to land and refuel and use Ireland instead. No country on the planet can realistically hope to stand up to the US, they spend more on their military than the majority of the worlds countries combined. The closest military spend to the US is China at $70 billion and still comes nowhere close to the $700 billion the US spends every year.

You are ASSuming the US would need or want to come here for some reason in the first place...
And as I said they might be stupid,but not insane enough to send perfectly healthy Americans to the zombie infected old sod for a few cows or dubious other advantages,least of all any military advantage,that they would have with a strong friendly ally another half hours worth of flying time further east called Britan.

Ireland is perfectly positioned to be in range of the US and opens up Europe, Eurasia and the middle east. It would give the Americans global coverage.

Sigh!! Which they already have with the UK,and Germany plus airborne refuelling capability for any combat missions.
Thinking Ireland is a strategicmilitary necessity in the 21st century in military terms is delusional.It would have been necessary in ww2,nice to have in the 1950 and 60s,proably in the 1970s ,not a biggie by the 80s and ok handy for the troops to have a drink before they go totally dry before going to Arab ville.But do we need it as a strategic pivot pin to do anything in Europe or the middle east ...no long over!!!

We're not talking about US taxpayers or a bankrupt country, we're talking about a deserted island and Americans in fear for their lives. While the current climate means America can pull out of middle east (they won't be doing that regardless of what they're telling the general population) if the situation changes and global powers think there's a power vacuum it changes everything.

NO we are talking a fictious scenario dealing with the undead with huge amounts of variables,not with the possibility of a US invasion of Ireland,for whatever dubious benefits that might be in the scenario of the rise of the undead..

Sorry to disappoint you there is nothing of a US presence military wise in Iraq anymore ..It was Obamas pirority to withdraw them,and the US is definately winding down in Afghanistan,they are letting the rest of NATO handle this one.Contary to IAWM and other Irish nutter American hating plane spotter groups say!!

Like I said, Ireland is uniquely positioned to be a staging point for the US

.

But totally irrevelant in a Z event occurance.

Small farms that diversify are a thing of the past you have to produce in bulk to make profit, Ireland can't grow crops well but we're ideal for raising animals and compared to the American system of reclaiming land and intensive animal producing farms Irelands general climate is perfect.

Now you are contradicting yourself...
First you say it is ideal to grow crops,then it is ideal to raise cattle..Which one is it??
And actually we are outgunned by the US in animal production from the word go.And NO the Americans dont reclaim land to raise cattle...I think you are getting mixed up with Brazil or Argentina,who reclaim land from thw Amazon?? Who BTW produce much better beef ,cheaper,and more naturally than anything our farms can produce.Their cattle never see the inside of a shed,never seen silage,and taste 100% better than our stuff.
Give me an Argentinan steak anyday.Blows an Irish steak.

Anyway totally irrevelant again in a Z invasion,unless you are going tro live off beef for the duration,and no doubt all that livestock,not to mind slaughterd carcasses will be a banquet for the Z 's too.You still need your 5 a day in vitamins to function IE you will fruit & veg,and you will have to grow it,as I doubt Tescos will be doing any more fresh fruit and vegs.

McDonalds supply the majority of their restaurants in Europe with Irish beef. We produce enough milk to feed 40 million people.

AND so what??Do you expect this will continue during the Z invasion???

The Chinese buy chickens off us.

More like the other way round..Had a look recently on where they come from in Lidil??Remember the last Avian flu outbreak how difficult it was to suddenly get "fresh " chicken in Ireland??;)

When it comes to raising meat products we're a major player on the global stage. We can produce that much beef naturally and organically too, no need for massive investment.

Oh Dear!!Compared to the Argentinians,Brazillians,Americans, we are in the little leauge.We are a player in Europe and more by our "green" image.
Do you know it costs MORE per kilo to raise a totally organic animal than a non organic one???
If you dont mind paying over 80 quid for your steak... Fine.
You can certainly get 100% organic meat,but it costs ,due to its high production cost.

Of course you will, peak oil has happened, production is declining and armies require lots of oil.

Yeah,its declining all right,because of Global recession!!
Not because there isnt any left in the ground.

Have you not heard of the US national oil reserve??
Do you think that in times of major world crises that they will be handing that out to the US citizen to fill up their Cadillacs???Its for the military use..And do you think they havent "wargamed" out somthing like this...Which they do on a regular basis in the Pentagon...There thousands of papers written every year by strategic analists,academics generals,and others dealing with scenarios like this,Everything from Ireland becoming a
super power somhow ,to an actual Zombie occurance!!!
Not to mind the US armed forces are in a big R&D programme at the moment to make their forces multi fuel and alt fuel capable by 2020??
Well their tanks and trucks already are, the deuce and a half "whistler" certainly can run on petrol,diesel,lpg ,kerosene.
As can the M1A1 mk 3 MBT.

That's possible but zombies can only last 5 - 10 years until they're completely destroyed by weathering. Then you'll have a perfectly habitable and productive island empty of civilization. If the disease is contained on the island you could see Irish people returning to repopulate the island but if it spreads and the global power balance is affected it could become a flashpoint.

Again a variable based on an asumption that zombies will only last 10 years...We don t know..

Habitable and productive???I suggest friend you have a look at places like Pipyratt and villages around Cherynobl and how derelict they were after ten years of non human habitation...25 years now..You would have to rebuild them from the ground up..Who is going to finance the rebuilding..Oh proably the wicked war mongering USA no doubt.:rolleyes: The EU??Yeah...let them,they own the place anyway now.T
hey would be more likely to invade and occupy us than the US,as restoring law and order and productivity in
the Irish state would be to their benefit..Yes indeed get the Irish peasents back to work,schnell,schnell..:D

Such a diamond is worthless to anyone outside of the jewelry trade. Diamonds are as common as muck and can easily be produced artificially. The diamond trade is a completely fabricated brand that people have bought into and believe.

You are missing the whole point I was trying to make...:rolleyes:
Please read it again ..

Ireland has real value, oil and gas, mild climate suitable to raising animals, perfectly situated between Europe and the US making it a gateway to Europe, Africa, the middle east and Russia.

I love your perspective of geography my friend...:D:D
A gateway certainly between the US ,and Europe, Africa and Russia..Last time I looked Spain was in the way,and a large hunk of Europe was in the way before Russia.


True but totally irrevelant in a zombie situation.No one is going to want to take up a poisioned chalice no matter what its benefits are.
Again look at the deserted towns around Cherynobl,plenty of resources there and free land.But surrounded by armed no go zones,why?Risk of radiation contamination,not just to the desperate and idiotic who steal stuff out of there ,but to people that might buy their looted stuff.
Multiply that to a country like Ireland with a highly infectous disease that has a 99% transfer rate with no known cure,bar brain destruction...
Sorry no one is that dumb to want to come here,and even if they did there is no way you are getting off the island ever again.

Just because Irish people aren't able to reap the benefits of this country due to incompetence doesn't mean other countries wouldn't make full use of it's positive aspects given half the chance

Never a truer word spoken!! Leaving dumb Paddy standing there with nothing as usual while his resources are being swiped under his snout while his fellow Gombeen brother Paddy is selling it out from under him!:rolleyes:
But you should look at the EU rather than the US.

ScumLord

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Errr,have you heard of airborne refuelling????:)

But where do those refueling planes coming from? They can't follow the bombers all the way over and back without having another plane come and refuel them. The Americans do have bases all over Europe but an empty Ireland would be an opportunity to do it all for free without obeying local laws.

And as I said they might be stupid,but not insane enough to send perfectly healthy Americans to the zombie infected old sod

The American government have a long running history of sending their troops into dangerous places, that's what their army is for.

Sorry to disappoint you there is nothing of a US presence military wise in Iraq anymore

There are still plenty of private sector military units in America protecting the oil. The US military did it's job of making Iraq safe for American and international companies to stay and make profits of the Iraqis oil.

Now you are contradicting yourself...
First you say it is ideal to grow crops,then it is ideal to raise cattle..Which one is it??

I never mentioned crops.

And actually we are outgunned by the US in animal production from the word go.And NO the Americans dont reclaim land to raise cattle...

They do in a sense reclaim land but they raise the cattle indoors on corn rather than let them graze.

I think you are getting mixed up with Brazil or Argentina,who reclaim land from thw Amazon?? Who BTW produce much better beef ,cheaper,and more naturally than anything our farms can produce.Their cattle never see the inside of a shed,never seen silage,and taste 100% better than our stuff.
Give me an Argentinan steak anyday.Blows an Irish steak.

I wouldn't agree that Argentinian beef is better but that's personal preference. The only reason they can produce it cheaper is due to low wages and working conditions along with illegal land reclamation.

AND so what??Do you expect this will continue during the Z invasion???

The point was that Ireland can produce a hell of a lot of meat for it's size.

Oh Dear!!Compared to the Argentinians,Brazillians,Americans, we are in the little leauge.We are a player in Europe and more by our "green" image.
Do you know it costs MORE per kilo to raise a totally organic animal than a non organic one???
If you dont mind paying over 80 quid for your steak... Fine.
You can certainly get 100% organic meat,but it costs ,due to its high production cost.

Irish steak doesn't cost €80, I've done the REPS course on organic farming and I can tell you that for the most part Irish beef is more or less organic by European standards which are the highest standards in the world. If that beef was more expensive McDonalds wouldn't be using it.

Yeah,its declining all right,because of Global recession!!
Not because there isnt any left in the ground.

I think you should look into peak oil, it has nothing to do with the recession. It is true that the demand would go down and there may be enough oil if that production goes down but the global oil stock depends heavily of transport, if the transport network goes down the oil from far flung places becomes inaccessible.

Again a variable based on an asumption that zombies will only last 10 years...We don t know..

I don't see how the zombies can last any more than 10 years and that's a maximum, we've had threads on this subject in the past, if you do a search you can see why we came to that conclusion.

Habitable and productive???I suggest friend you have a look at places like Pipyratt and villages around Cherynobl and how derelict they were after ten years of non human habitation...25 years now..

People do still live around chernobyl and you'll also find that wildlife is booming in the area thanks to the lack of humans. It's not a wasteland by any means and we're finding it's not nearly as dangerous as we assumed it would be.

You would have to rebuild them from the ground up..Who is going to finance the rebuilding..Oh proably the wicked war mongering USA no doubt.:rolleyes:

I have no problem with the US, I'm just certain if a zombie outbreak causes a power vacuum it will make the global powers nervous and prone to military action.

Grizzly 45

[

QUOTE=ScumLord;81406998]But where do those refueling planes coming from? They can't follow the bombers all the way over and back without having another plane come and refuel them.

They dont.. What they do they pre position them over certain areas and meet up with the bombers or fighter aircraft.The locations of the tankers are extremely classified and are only on a need to know basis literally hours before the mission takes flight.
Usually the tankers themselves are well capable of continental hops, Boeing 707s or DC 10 or]so say your flight of B52's took for some reason a West /East Atlantic flight,which is unusual as they would go the Polar route to be quicker on a great circle route.Remember we are talking the shortest distances on a globe not a straight line. The tankes could be coming from the Azores Greenland or Iceland or RAF Mildenhall even Rhine Main Frankfurt.

The only time what you describe ever happened was the RAF flying their two Vulcan bombers to bomb the runway in the Falklands in 1982.
Took ten tankers to fly the in the end one bomber to Port Stanley and back.
30 years ago!!!.Now you would just launch a tomahawk cruise missile from 2k kilometers away with a JDAM from a sub,job done.:)
What I am saying is simply the age of the bomber is passing,and needing strategic runways around the globe is becoming less and less important.
Ergo Irelands stategic importance off West Europe is becoming less and less.

The Americans do have bases all over Europe but an empty Ireland would be an opportunity to do it all for free without obeying local laws

.

So why need an empty Ireland ,full of Z's ??
And their bases all over Europe??

The American government have a long running history of sending their troops into dangerous places, that's what their army is for.

Yes,but no sane commander in the Pentagon or Brussells more like is going to say "General,I want you to take a division to Ireland and secure it.Yeah we know its full of the walking dead,we dont know a goddam thing about who or what caused it wether it is airborne or water or food borne,and wether our DECON and NBC equipment is up to dealing with it..Or how fast this will spread or if the Limeys or Frogs or Krauts are infected yet as they aint saying"
" Yeah ,there a coupla Micks still alive in some tater patch over there..Grab a few will ya ,and get them over here so the CDC in Atlanta can test them for immunity??Where??Hell I dont know,goddam country is always under rain and clouds,Sats havent got a clear shot in weeks..Dont know wTF is going on there.Everyone that has been leaving by plane or boat has been either shot down or turned back at the threat..
Any General looking at those odds will say Sir!! Heres my resignation!! I refuse to take my men into a situation where we have no specific mission objective ,a deadly plauge and a chaotic local situation.I suggest you call Rambo orChuuck Norris to do this one."

In short ,you dont send men to needlesy die unless there is a very good reason for them,and whats to say thy wont bring the contaigon back to the US mainland themselves??

There are still plenty of private sector military units in America protecting the oil. The US military did it's job of making Iraq safe for American and international companies to stay and make profits of the Iraqis oil.

You are joking right???:rolleyes:Oil is the last thing anyone wants or could get out of Iraq on a ecnomical commercial basis at the moment..
The refining plants and equipment is ancient and totally rotten,and I'm talking proably around the time of the Ark when it was built!! It will cost any oil company more to rebuild and train and start refining literally billions of dollars,and Iraq will have to be still alot more stable before anyone like Exxon or Chevron,Gulf starts considering that sort of money there.

There were alot more reasons for the Iraq invasion than this idea of WMDs or oil,and most people blatantly miss it,but its outside the scope of Zombies and Ireland.

PMC,have nothing to do with the "green machine" bar that alot of them were trained by Uncle Sam,and figured they could make better money for the same risks doing it privately,and BTW the pay is still pee poor!!
As well as that the Iraquis are clamping down on the private companies,not renewing contracts anymore,and letting their own people get the jobs and take over,and most PMCs are now either looking at working for whatever is left in Afghanistan or Maritime security,or advisors with NGBs in hostile countries.

I never mentioned crops

.
Yes you did...

They do in a sense reclaim land but they raise the cattle indoors on corn rather than let them graze.

How is it "in a sense" reclaiming land??Where are they reclaiming land??Explain please.
Hmmm last time I was in Texas there were plenty of cattle out grazing on the sparse praries,and raising cattle indoors is actually the most efficent way to produce meat fast for a huge mass market.

I wouldn't agree that Argentinian beef is better but that's personal preference. The only reason they can produce it cheaper is due to low wages and working conditions along with illegal land reclamation

.
Compared to where is it low wages...Ireland??We are not comparing like and like
What illegal land reclamation??Who actually owns the Amazon rainforest?Practically I mean ,not morally ,ethically or because Sting says so!
If the Govts who own the terrority say Amigos...Go chop a farm out of that jungle for yourselves so the Gringos can eat our beef and we have mucho pesos[or whatever currency] in your pockets..How is that illegal??
Unethical,and proably shortsighted,but not illegal.

The point was that Ireland can produce a hell of a lot of meat for it's size.

However keeping it OT with Zombies,its worthless to speculate on this as ;
1] There wont be a need for such huge herds,as there wont be any export market for quite awhile,and even then if and when the Z plauge is over ,the brand Irish will be damaged as people will still be fearful of possible fresh outbreaks possibly thru food??

2] Without proper management and knowledge and maintence most of these cattle will be dead within 6 months +/-
First to go will be dairy cattle as they will have no one to milk them,proably attracting every Z within miles with their bellowing to a free beef lunch.
Then the beef animals due to them being depending on the season either locked in sheds and lack of food,or outside and breaking free of their farms ,to possibly fall prey to Z's or packs of wild dogs.

Irish steak doesn't cost €80, I've done the REPS course on organic farming and I can tell you that for the most part Irish beef is more or less organic by European standards which are the highest standards in the world. If that beef was more expensive McDonalds wouldn't be using it.

I have a degree in agriculture;) and half a lifetime of working and maintaining an Irish farm.
No Irish steak does not cost 80 euros ,I said if it was totally organic steak and by that I mean the cow has no antibiotics,feed with no animal by products,is fed on total lly fresh grass product in Winter,not silage,etc.

IOW the correct definition of organic your steak would cost 80 euros.
Reason it doesnt is simply because we are "more or less" not raising the national herd totally organicaly.
Cant see what this has to do with Z's infecting Ireland.

I think you should look into peak oil, it has nothing to do with the recession. It is true that the demand would go down and there may be enough oil if that production goes down but the global oil stock depends heavily of transport, if the transport network goes down the oil from far flung places becomes inaccessible.

Already did a long time ago ,and like global warming total utter bunk!!
And again in the time of Z's that will be a given that oil wont be available,some countries like the US will be possibly better prepped oil wise than Ireland which has appx 72 hours worth of fuel at any given time.

I don't see how the zombies can last any more than 10 years and that's a maximum, we've had threads on this subject in the past, if you do a search you can see why we came to that conclusion.

Because we are speculating on a creature that does not exist and under the current knowledge of science is unlikely to ever exist,as it is impossible for dead organic matter to be reanimated..Hollywood not withstanding.
So we can add X number of impossible varibles to it as well.Why not that they will be controlled by alien life forms??That they actually are escaped Nazis who come from a secret base on the darkside of the Moon or Antartica??
whats to say then they are impervious to not rotting within 10 years??
By rightts a normal corpse will be gone within 12/14 months outside.

OR
We are looking at "zombies" as a generic term to get the great uninformed herd to start thinking laterally about a "what if " situation like a more conventional disaster were to happen to me what would we do once the TV went off and there were no more potato chips and the store isnt open selling stuff we need?? IOW a fun way of getting people to subconciously do some preperations for when the Govt cant help you???

People do still live around chernobyl and you'll also find that wildlife is booming in the area thanks to the lack of humans. It's not a wasteland by any means and we're finding it's not nearly as dangerous as we assumed it would be.

Sooo would you like to go and live there????:p After all its that safe,because bears ,wild boar and deer live there or dont as the case may be??
There are radiation hotspots all over the place still.



From Wiki travel to Cherynobyl...Would love to see it meself!:cool:

Pripyat
The famous abandoned city, which once housed 50,000 residents. Sights to see are the schools, kindergarten, public buildings and the amazing cultural palace which contains a swimming pool, cinema and gymnasium, and overlooks the famous ferris wheel. Hazards are the crumbling buildings, and decaying wooden floors in places - so be careful. As of July 2008, most tours will not let you enter the buildings due to their current structural stability.
Minibus day-trips from Kiev typically stop in the town's center, at the west end of Lenin Street near the Palace of Culture. Short-term visitors are confined to the pavement at ground level; if you join one of these tours, your risk exposure is minimal, but so too is your exposure to the vast cultural reliquary that is Pripyat. A more in-depth visit (several days, staying overnight at the InterInform hotel in Chornobyl, eating meals at the InterInform stolovaya) costs about $200 per person per day in a group of four (2011). The long-term visitor is rewarded with considerably more freedom to explore, accompanied of course by an InterInform guide.
Decades of neglect have resulted in a physically-hazardous ex-urban environment in which radiation is of distant, secondary concern. Hazards include uncovered manholes in the middle of barely-recognizable streets, open elevator shafts, flooded basements, decayed wooden floors, collapsed roofs, large amounts of broken glass, challenging footpath obstructions in dark hallways, and quite possibly asbestos. Flashlights are essential to exploring interiors. Although radiation isn't a relatively major concern, the "hotter" spots in town would most certainly be off-limits to the public in the United States or Western Europe. As an example, the basement of the Polyclinic contains first responders' clothing (firefighters' clothes, boots, helmets, etc.) and presents external gamma exposure rates approaching one roentgen (R) per hour (June 2010). Some other hot spots are well-known to guides and they can either help you avoid these places or find them if so inclined. The most important precaution concerning radioactivity is to avoid ingesting loose contamination. Although your guide might eat snacks or smoke in Pripyat, you should not--particularly if you have been handling things or visiting places like the hospital basement. Buy an ample supply of drinking water at one of the the magazines in Chornobyl before going to Pripyat. (Obviously there is not potable water there.) Water can also be used to rinse contaminated shoes before re-entering vehicles.

I have no problem with the US, I'm just certain if a zombie outbreak causes a power vacuum it will make the global powers nervous and prone to military action.

Against whom??And why?? No one is going to launch nukes against anyone unless it is a direct proven "clear and present danger"
You can be assured no one is going to kick off armageddon over Ireland!
However if Ireland was a source of infection and it is contained within the 32 counties ,and the place its totally blockaded with no one left alive here I wouldnt be surprised if the World said Ok sterilise the place by any means possible.America would do the honours??As you are the Worlds policeman,and we are a bit well,squemish about these things??:rolleyes:

BogMonkey

ScumLord wrote: »

The zombie itself isn't the real danger its the disease they carry. Zombies become dangerous in a horde, you'd wish for death being stuck at the bottom of a horde facing starvation. Your armor will also make you a sitting duck for people and prone to clumbsy accidents

On the contrary, kevlar is light and flexible and protects against getting slashed, stabbed and even 9mm bullets if the layer is thick enough.

Griffin1988 wrote: »

Lads, the likelyhood is as soon as it broke out the Yanks would just bomb us back to the stone age

Not if it was worldwide. They can't wipe out the whole planet, although I wouldn't put it past them. In reality, the only way ordinary people like us would be the survivors in a situation like this is if there is a select few of us who are immune to the disease. Otherwise the people likely to survive would be the military and hardcore survivalists who have been preparing for the apocalypse for years (theres a show about them called Doomsday Preppers, its pretty good).

BogMonkey

Tzar Chasm wrote: »

I doubt that they would do that somehow, it wouldn't be in their own self interest, if we were truly up the wazoo their best option for containment would be assistance and screening refugees, I can guarantee you that if there was even a whiff of area bombing the west coast of britain would be a dangerous place to be, all we would have to do is fill a boat with diese,l tie the tiller on a n/ne heading, fill er with z's and bingo biological warfare on an epic scale. Could you imagine the chaos as thousands of boats undetectable by radar start landing along the entire length of their coast. Wouldn't take much effort to coordinate either

lol yeah, if the UK decided to bomb Ireland back to the stone age in a situation like that, there would be some survivors with the know how to make them regret that decision. I'm not a biotech major but I know how to incubate and distribute viruses. I'd use birds, mice and various other hard to detect animals that would rapidly spread throughout the country once released in Britain. However, many viruses are species selective so if it only infected humans, then I can think of a million other ways to spread it. On top of transporting the virus to the location, you need the right vector to ensure it reaches the host. Water supplies are an obvious one (birds and mice would drink from them and piss in them). Food supplies is another obvious one but in an epidemic like that people would be very careful what they ingest. If you had to launch the attack from Ireland though, maybe boats filled with swarms of mosquitos which had recently fed on infected humans would do the trick. You could attach a pressure guage to a rope and have the pressure guage ignite a bomb once the pressure drops significantly (indicating that the boat has reached shallow water/land). Then again, a bomb might kill all the mosquitos and completely defeat the purpose so a door with an electrical latch would probably be a more sensible way to release them.

degrassinoel

Zombies don't use guns or knives, so kevlar is pointless unless you wear it over every part of your body, making it even more cumbersome and useless in the zompocalypse. have to agree with Scumlord there, it's fairly useless against Z's. Also, imagine if the person wearing all that swanky awesome bullet and stab-proof stuff got infected? you'd have a hard time of it..

I dont know the exact numbers of nukes which country has and tbh i dont think i want to know, but if it came to a nuke war to stop an infection/outbreak/epidemic/pandemic etc.. you'd have to have a lot of seriously dumb people in a lot of different areas of government and military giving really stupid orders.

degrassinoel

BogMonkey wrote: »

lol yeah, if the UK decided to bomb Ireland back to the stone age in a situation like that, there would be some survivors with the know how to make them regret that decision. I'm not a biotech major but I know how to incubate and distribute viruses. I'd use birds, mice and various other hard to detect animals that would rapidly spread throughout the country once released in Britain.

See.. it just takes one lunatic to start the zompocalypse
This is hypothetical i hope?
I have lots of relatives in Britain.

BogMonkey

degrassinoel wrote: »

Zombies don't use guns or knives, so kevlar is pointless unless you wear it over every part of your body, making it even more cumbersome and useless in the zompocalypse. have to agree with Scumlord there, it's fairly useless against Z's. Also, imagine if the person wearing all that swanky awesome bullet and stab-proof stuff got infected? you'd have a hard time of it..

There'd be plenty of people taking advantage of the lawless situation so zombies wouldn't be the only thing to worry about. Just having kevlar sleeves would be an advantage over not having them because theres a good chance you'll get bitten on the arms. lol, yeah imagine other people trying to kill a zombie thats covered from head to toe in kevlar. A simple way to deal with a zombie would be to put a hood over his head so it can't bite you.

Tzar Chasm

well now I never suggested starting an apocalypse, just that it would be in britains best interest to help us, cos we can be a spiteful shower of ******** sometimes

BogMonkey

Tzar Chasm wrote: »

well now I never suggested starting an apocalypse, just that it would be in britains best interest to help us, cos we can be a spiteful shower of ******** sometimes

Yeah taking Britain down with us would be silly. The sociopathic government and high ranking military who gave the orders to bomb Ireland would be sit the whole thing out in underground bunkers in biohazard suits, leaving the ordinary British people to reap the consequences for their actions, as usual. There would be plenty of people that wouldn't consider that though and give in to their urge to retaliate.

Tzar Chasm

yeah, but we wouldnt tell them that tho, the 'official' line would be Help- or your next.

archicraft

come what may, ill be ready....1000 rounds of buckshot & a mossberg pump action:D.