misled about timing belt

adamski8

hi guys,

bought a car last month for €2,000 from a garage. i was told upfront the timing belt was done recently and it said under the bonnet it was done ~8000km ago. now after 2 weeks the rocker cover was leaking and got them to repair it but the problem seemed to resurface so i brought it to a different mechanic to get it done properly.

while they assessed the problem they also told me that in no way was the timing belt done recently and it needs to be replaced (along with rocker cover, lamda sensor, cat coverter, starter motor and aux pulley). so thats €1200 worth of repairs needs to be done. buyer beware and all that but they definatly misled me about the timing belt.

so anyone have any advice what exactly my next step should be, only got 1 months warranty so thats up now? I think seeing as i was was misled they should pay for the timing belt replacement at least but frankly id like to get a refund seeing as there is so many problems, should I just ring them and say that or go down the small claims court route straight away?

-Corkie-

Have you not contacted them at all yet???

adamski8

well i did now, they said its got nothing to do with them they just sold it on but its the previos owners i should be contacting.

MarkR

adamski8 wrote: »

hi guys,

bought a car last month for €2,000 from a garage. i was told upfront the timing belt was done recently and it said under the bonnet it was done ~8000km ago. now after 2 weeks the rocker cover was leaking and got them to repair it but the problem seemed to resurface so i brought it to a different mechanic to get it done properly.

while they assessed the problem they also told me that in no way was the timing belt done recently and it needs to be replaced (along with rocker cover, lamda sensor, cat coverter, starter motor and aux pulley). so thats €1200 worth of repairs needs to be done. buyer beware and all that but they definatly misled me about the timing belt.

so anyone have any advice what exactly my next step should be, only got 1 months warranty so thats up now? I think seeing as i was was misled they should pay for the timing belt replacement at least but frankly id like to get a refund seeing as there is so many problems, should I just ring them and say that or go down the small claims court route straight away?

1. Go on internet
2. Call Garage

You need to contact the garage you purchased the car from to get their take on this.

Timing belt isn't a consumable item, and needs to be done on a schedule. If they took in the car and they were told the timing belt was just done, and they tell you the timing belt was just done, then it is now their problem.

Get out your receipt and see is warranty mentioned, and is the timing belt change mentioned in the advert or anywhere. Sounds like you are in for a fight.

adamski8

MarkR wrote: »

1. Go on internet
2. Call Garage

You need to contact the garage you purchased the car from to get their take on this.

1 and 2 check

-Corkie-

adamski8 wrote: »

well i did now, they said its got nothing to do with them they just sold it on but its the previos owners i should be contacting.

Thats bullcrap, you are entitled to a guarntee from the garage. Its nothing to do with the previous owner. Did you get a receipt??

adamski8

-Corkie- wrote: »

Thats bullcrap, you are entitled to a guarntee from the garage. Its nothing to do with the previous owner. Did you get a receipt??

yes i got a 1 month guarantee. i have a receipt, dont think it mentioned timing belt, just km done, but i have to check. i think its bs too. they surely have to check the timing belt when it comes in weather or not they do it. they just asked me if i had it in writing that the timing belt was done by them which leads me to think its not on the receipt now.

Jonty

I think 3 month is the legal minimum warantee?

adamski8

Jonty wrote: »

I think 3 month is the legal minimum warantee?

i didnt think so but its not really relevant to my case. i was told timing belt was done at a ceratin milage but it wasnt, it didnt break or anything.

Anan1

adamski8 wrote: »

yes i got a 1 month guarantee. i have a receipt, dont think it mentioned timing belt, just km done, but i have to check. i think its bs too. they surely have to check the timing belt when it comes in weather or not they do it. they just asked me if i had it in writing that the timing belt was done by them which leads me to think its not on the receipt now.

Your mistake was taking some tippex and the word of a back street dealer as proof that the TB was done. An invoice is proof, without documentation you need to assume that it wasn't done. Given that you can't prove what the garage said, I don't really see what you can do. Still, the small claims court is cheap if you want to give it a shot.

coolisin

Jonty wrote: »

I think 3 month is the legal minimum warantee?

This^^

-Corkie-

Jonty wrote: »

I think 3 month is the legal minimum warantee?

Thats correct...

adamski8

Anan1 wrote: »

Your mistake was taking some tippex and the word of a back street dealer as proof that the TB was done. An invoice is proof, without documentation you need to assume that it wasn't done. Given that you can't prove what the garage said, I don't really see what you can do. Still, the small claims court is cheap if you want to give it a shot.

yes i agree thats probably the case unless i can find the ad or its on the receipt im screwed alright! not worth any more hassle if i dont have evidence

alias no.9

adamski8 wrote: »

well i did now, they said its got nothing to do with them they just sold it on but its the previos owners i should be contacting.

You didn't buy anything from the previous owner, you bought from them, your contract is with them. It sounds like you asked the right questions but they as the professionals were either negligent (didn't properly check the facts) or fraudulant (deliberately misrepresented the facts) in their response to very pertinant questions from you as the consumer. You would not have paid the amount you paid for the car if you'd known the timing belt needed doing and perhaps you wouldn't have bought it at all. This has nothing to do with the previous owner, they're the professionals and have a burden of responsibility.

Don't let this one go. If you don't have some record of them telling you about the timing belt, try and get it now, even if its just them acknowledging that they took the word of the previous owner. Maybe play dumb and ask them who the previous owner was, make it look like you're going looking for them, and try and get them to say in an e-mail, text message, voice message, slip of paper stating that the previous owner just told them that it was done. Once you have some sort of record, get a solicitors letter sent to them requesting the timing belt be changed immediately. If there's no joy with that, get it done yourself and go to the small claims court to recover your costs.

Henry Ford III

-Corkie- wrote: »

Thats (3 month minimum warranty) correct...

You sure about that?

Anan1

adamski8 wrote: »

yes i agree thats probably the case unless i can find the ad or its on the receipt im screwed alright! not worth any more hassle if i dont have evidence

Now if you could find the ad that might change things! Google under the seller's phone number, that can sometimes throw up old ads. Otherwise, you could take a case in the SCC and hope that the garage cuts a deal to get you off their back?

adamski8

alias no.9 wrote: »

Don't let this one go. If you don't have some record of them telling you about the timing belt, try and get it now, even if its just them acknowledging that they took the word of the previous owner. Maybe play dumb and ask them who the previous owner was, make it look like you're going looking for them, and try and get them to say in an e-mail, text message, voice message, slip of paper stating that the previous owner just told them that it was done. Once you have some sort of record, get a solicitors letter sent to them requesting the timing belt be changed immediately. If there's no joy with that, get it done yourself and go to the small claims court to recover your costs.

They already told me the previous owners details. i should learn to record all conversations.

alias no.9

adamski8 wrote: »

They already told me the previous owners details. i should learn to record all conversations.

Try the angle of saying that you asked the previous owner, but they denied it. Tell them you need something from them to confront the previous owner with, but obviously you've no intention of confronting the previous owner.

alias no.9

And another thing, this has nothing to do with warranty, 1 month, 3 months or whatever means nothing, this is breach of contract. They deliberately or otherwise misrepresented they goods they offered to you.

Steveirl2010

adamski8 wrote: »

They already told me the previous owners details. i should learn to record all conversations.

dont be ringing them, go down to the Garage and have it out with them !!
Stand up for yourself, tell them you arent leaving the garage until they take the car in and repair it or you get your money back....id go mad !!

When the car was advertised did it say the timing belt was recently replaced.
Do you know much about cars?
You should have got this all written down.
The sold you a faulty car.
When the garage buys the car from someone or sells it on behalf of someone they have to check everything with the car.
They cant lie on behalf of the owner.
Its there fault.
Tell them you had nothing but trouble since you bought it and they are aware of it.
Get down there and fight for your rights...
Tell them you are going to take legal action on this if its not sorted.
Is this a well known garage?

I got my BMW 1 series serviced by a garage before, i got it back and 2 days later the cylinder went. they tried to fix it and fooked up all the timing on it and didnt have the BMW tools to set it back. i had to get it towed from there to Joe Duffys
Basically i wasted 800 in that garage and ended up having to pay Joe Duffys another 800.
I got screwed...
But in your case you do have a case.

Steveirl2010

alias no.9 wrote: »

And another thing, this has nothing to do with warranty, 1 month, 3 months or whatever means nothing, this is breach of contract. They deliberately or otherwise misrepresented they goods they offered to you.

Exactly, hit the nail on the head. !!
agree 100%

corktina

are you sure that schedule of work your new mechanic has given you is kosher? Might be a good idea to get a second opiion before going to law.

I'd talk to the selling garage and ask them if they would be prepared to do the timing belt for you to save you going to the Solicitor and put down the rest of the list to experiance. MAybe the TB is their pidgeon (maybe not if it hasn't actaully broken on you) but the rest is not theri responsibility.

Anan1

corktina wrote: »

are you sure that schedule of work your new mechanic has given you is kosher? Might be a good idea to get a second opiion before going to law.

I'd talk to the selling garage and ask them if they would be prepared to do the timing belt for you to save you going to the Solicitor and put down the rest of the list to experiance. MAybe the TB is their pidgeon (maybe not if it hasn't actaully broken on you) but the rest is not theri responsibility.

This sounds reasonable to me, my only concern would be to ensure that the work was actually done. including tensioners, wp etc.

adamski8

corktina wrote: »

are you sure that schedule of work your new mechanic has given you is kosher? Might be a good idea to get a second opiion before going to law.

I'd talk to the selling garage and ask them if they would be prepared to do the timing belt for you to save you going to the Solicitor and put down the rest of the list to experiance. MAybe the TB is their pidgeon (maybe not if it hasn't actaully broken on you) but the rest is not theri responsibility.

well i dont think they are responsible for the other stuff, they never said everything was working and on an old car i wouldnt expect everything to be perfect, just the first thing they told me was the tb was done!! and i wouldnt have bought it otherwise.

as for the garage where they told me about the work needed, they are well reputed on boards and found that they were great to deal with my previous car.

Steveirl2010

Fools and there money

IrishZeus

Steveirl2010 wrote: »

Fools and there money

Very helpful :rolleyes:

adamski8

Steveirl2010 wrote: »

Fools and there money

i may be a fool but i certainly dont have money! but thanks for your help

Demonical

Could the car have been clocked? Maybe the tipex on the cover is correct..the timing belt may have been changed at that mileage a long time ago and then the mileage was put back to just above what the tipex says. Did you do a cartell check on the car? Either way I think you have a case against the garage, they said the timing belt was done recently and it wasnt. Goods sold weren't as described.

adamski8

Demonical wrote: »

Could the car have been clocked? Maybe the tipex on the cover is correct..the timing belt may have been changed at that mileage a long time ago and then the mileage was put back to just above what the tipex says. Did you do a cartell check on the car? Either way I think you have a case against the garage, they said the timing belt was done recently and it wasnt. Goods sold weren't as described.

i cartelled it alright and it matched. all i need is proof, cant find the ad though. just going to go to the garage and check my receipt, thanks for the responses anyway guys.

Demonical

Good luck with it anyway. I hope you get sorted.

adamski8

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=79958828&postcount=759
I had asked Limerick man what he thought about it and had two links to the car ad there, of course they dont turn anything up now.

corktina

A lot of people selling a car will point to a bit of tippex and say the TB was done. I take it with a pinch of salt always.

BTW, I'd go spare at my garage if they tippexed on my engine, but thats another story. (I bought a new battery cover for my ST170 as the old one had the date of the next service tippexed on it, whats the point of that?

-Corkie-

adamski8 wrote: »

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=79958828&postcount=759
I had asked Limerick man what he thought about it and had two links to the car ad there, of course they dont turn anything up now.

Contact Carzone and see if they have a copy of the ad...

Max Power1

Steveirl2010 wrote: »

Fools and there money

Fools and their poor grammar!

Kenny Logins

Advert doesn't say anything...

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:Qni4i7-Op0cJ:www.autotrader.ie/search/Volkswagen/Golf/1.4-3DR-/8213391660266820/advert%3Fchannel%3DCARS+&cd=3&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=ie

adamski8

corktina wrote: »

A lot of people selling a car will point to a bit of tippex and say the TB was done. I take it with a pinch of salt always.

BTW, I'd go spare at my garage if they tippexed on my engine, but thats another story. (I bought a new battery cover for my ST170 as the old one had the date of the next service tippexed on it, whats the point of that?

yeah i just thought an advantage that buying from a garage they would have checked it out that it was changed and i couldn't check it myself.

I'll email carzone I suppose

adamski8

Kenny Logins wrote: »

Advert doesn't say anything...

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:Qni4i7-Op0cJ:www.autotrader.ie/search/Volkswagen/Golf/1.4-3DR-/8213391660266820/advert%3Fchannel%3DCARS+&cd=3&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=ie

cheers, ah balls.

Anyway im going to get my garage to take pictures of the timing belt anyway.

Also that ad as you can see says 3 owners which is BS too, the cartell I got done said 7! should have heeded that as a sign I suppose

Kenny Logins

Another one with a little more detail -

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:mgkAAt6IdswJ:wwww.carsireland.ie/detail.php%3Fad_id%3D804528%26r%3Ds.php%253Fr%253D2001%2526g%253D3%2526z%253D-1+&cd=39&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=ie

adamski8

adamski8 wrote: »

cheers, ah balls.

Anyway im going to get my garage to take pictures of the timing belt anyway.

Also that ad as you can see says 3 owners which is BS too, the cartell I got done said 7! should have heeded that as a sign I suppose

.... On a 2000 euro car how can they be so sure the belt wasn't changed? 5k miles ago could be a year or so ago. Presumably its not the factory belt.

Kenny Logins

RoverJames wrote: »

.... On a 2000 euro car how can they be so sure the belt wasn't changed? 5k miles ago could be a year or so ago. Presumably its not the factory belt.

At 11 years and 108k miles I would hope it had been changed at some point... What is the interval on those, 60k?

adamski8

now that I think about it Im pretty sure it wasn't written in the ads anyway because I remember thats what I was going to ask about when I saw it.

So basically my argument boils down to:
> my word v them that they told me it was done recently (not a great one)
> the fact it was written in tippex (not great either)
> pictures of the timing belt condition (this should show its bad condition and being so little time after sale it must have been in a bad state when it was with them. why wasn't this checked by the garage, surely they would have noticed its poor condition and that it hadnt been replaced in 70,00km.)

I think I'll put a SCC claim against them alright but I doubt I'll win. Chalk it up as a lesson learned!

By changed, I mean changed as per the tipex
Can't really see how it can be proven it wasn't done. The car seems to be a lemon anyway, I'd be more inclined to focus on that than the belt issue, especially considering the unsuccessful repair they did.

adamski8

RoverJames wrote: »

.... On a 2000 euro car how can they be so sure the belt wasn't changed? 5k miles ago could be a year or so ago. Presumably its not the factory belt.

Are you saying that it could have been changed years ago and undergone wear due to non-use?

Kenny Logins wrote: »

At 11 years and 108k miles I would hope it had been changed at some point... What is the interval on those, 60k?

The mighty tippex says it was changed at 42,000 and 110,000miles (sorry I was saying kilometers before!)

Kenny Logins

adamski8 wrote: »

Are you saying that it could have been changed years ago and undergone wear due to non-use?


The mighty tippex says it was changed at 42,000 and 110,000miles (sorry I was saying kilometers before!)

100,000?

Francie Barrett

I am always suspicious of adverts that say that the timing belt has "just been done".

db

Unless you see a receipt detailing work carried out, don't believe anything you are told about maintenance on a car. Even if the TB was changed, the tensioners and pump might not have been.

bobin fudge

adamski8 wrote: »

cheers, ah balls.

Anyway im going to get my garage to take pictures of the timing belt anyway.

Also that ad as you can see says 3 owners which is BS too, the cartell I got done said 7! should have heeded that as a sign I suppose

I heard somthing like that it could have had 3 owners but the garages that sell them on often register the car in their name as well so when you do a check it will say 6 or whatever instead of the 3 "real" owners

not sure how true this is, just somthing I either read/heard

Petey89

ring consumer agency or citizens information they where very helpful to me when i had a similar problem a few weeks ago, i was supposed to have a 3 month warranty but when the car broke down 6 weeks after i bought it he wouldnt cover it so i put in a small claim online only cost 25 euro to put in a claim, when a dealer sells a car even a second hand car there are certain consumer laws he has to go by and he is breaking them in your case, the car has to be of a merchantable quality for one he surely had a mechanic look at it when he took it in so he must have known about the belt not being done, id take him to small claims court you can go for a total refund up to the amount of 2000 euro in a small claims court case, hope this helps.

Petey89

adamski8 wrote: »

i cartelled it alright and it matched. all i need is proof, cant find the ad though. just going to go to the garage and check my receipt, thanks for the responses anyway guys.

just saw this, the dealer i bought my car with advertised my car with a 3 month warranty on donedeal an then said he didnt when the car broke down i found the add because once it goes online it never really comes down, go on google type the garage name the car make and model and the website you found it on and hit search and something should come up

Wicklowandy

bobin fudge wrote: »

I heard somthing like that it could have had 3 owners but the garages that sell them on often register the car in their name as well so when you do a check it will say 6 or whatever instead of the 3 "real" owners

not sure how true this is, just somthing I either read/heard

Not true generally, unless the car was put into garage name so they could tax it for their own use (which is rare) normally garage retain tax book and send rf xxx to shannon with dealer number until they sell it.

Also, to me a 2k car is buyer beware, check it well or have it checked.

What car is it and how old?


Why do people expect cheap cars to have golden warrantys?

adamski8

Wicklowandy wrote: »

Also, to me a 2k car is buyer beware, check it well or have it checked.

What car is it and how old?


Why do people expect cheap cars to have golden warrantys?

you clearly didn't understand my situation then! I said it needed loads of work which I admitted was "buyer beware" etc and I'm not complaining about that. I'm complaining about the fact I was told the timing belt was done recently and it was shown on the cover in tippex to be done as well. That was misleading me about the cars condition. I would not have bought it for 2G's if I had known the timing belt needed replacing, simple as.

Weather they knew it or not, they told me it was done, problem I have now is proof they said it to me.

I tried to check over the car as best I could but I was not capable of checking the timing belt, im not a mechanic! For 2K which was a lot of money for me, I expected to have to put a little more into it to keep it running but not an extra 500 for a timing belt!