Homophobia in Sport

shefellover93

Hey guys and girls!

Was reading this thread a few days ago and reading some of the posts I feel compelled to write an article about the issue.

I'm a straight man, so I'd have no ideas about the pressures put on homosexual men/women in relation to coming out to your team-mates. I'm hoping to talk about the issue on a worldwide and local scale. It's a topic that's completely overlooked as part of sport, and since we're able to embrace all cultures and disabilities in sport, I can't understand why homosexuality is the same.

Anyways, I'm looking for anyone who has any anecdotes, things you think I might miss writing from a straight perspective, or even if you'd be interested in asking a few questions as someone who has/hasn't come out. Complete anonymity is guaranteed of course

Thanks a lot!
Kev

Ambersky

I have written quite a bit about lesbians in sports on another forum.
If you feel like it have a browse
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=80017810
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=79577989

misswhat

I've been an athlete for many years and have NEVER come out to a team-mate other than those who are also homosexual and they have never come out to straight team mates either. I'm sure not everyone on the whole team would have an issue of course. But often you will hear remarks in changing rooms or on the field saying maybe "Jesus you're one the other day at the match was some lesbian" or maybe "go away you feeling my legs ya dirty lesbo" in a joking manner of course, but remarks like these even though they are intended in a joking way make it all the more difficult and frightening to come out in. These women are changing in a dressing room with you, and spend a lot of time with you through your sport, it should NEVER be an issue but unfortunately some women could find it uncomfortable and may even leave the team, and nothing is worth the atmosphere that would follow that. Not to me anyways. Hope this helps!!

shefellover93

Ambersky wrote: »

I have written quite a bit about lesbians in sports on another forum.
If you feel like it have a browse
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=80017810
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=79577989

misswhat wrote: »

I've been an athlete for many years and have NEVER come out to a team-mate other than those who are also homosexual and they have never come out to straight team mates either. I'm sure not everyone on the whole team would have an issue of course. But often you will hear remarks in changing rooms or on the field saying maybe "Jesus you're one the other day at the match was some lesbian" or maybe "go away you feeling my legs ya dirty lesbo" in a joking manner of course, but remarks like these even though they are intended in a joking way make it all the more difficult and frightening to come out in. These women are changing in a dressing room with you, and spend a lot of time with you through your sport, it should NEVER be an issue but unfortunately some women could find it uncomfortable and may even leave the team, and nothing is worth the atmosphere that would follow that. Not to me anyways. Hope this helps!!

Thank you both, that helps an awful lot! This one is taking me longer than most as it's kinda difficult to get a message across without sounding patronising, I'll get there though! :pac:

misswhat

shefellover93 wrote: »

Thank you both, that helps an awful lot! This one is taking me longer than most as it's kinda difficult to get a message across without sounding patronising, I'll get there though! :pac:

Glad it helps Send a link when you're done, i'd love to read it

Annasopra

Sorry to butt in but em - what/who are you writing for? A blog? A newspaper?

ninty9er

misswhat wrote: »

But often you will hear remarks in changing rooms or on the field saying maybe "Jesus you're one the other day at the match was some lesbian" or maybe "go away you feeling my legs ya dirty lesbo" in a joking manner of course, but remarks like these even though they are intended in a joking way make it all the more difficult and frightening to come out in

It's my experience that comments like that are not meant seriously and that people will revert to using them more often once they become more comfortable and have normalised others' homosexuality in their heads.

For months I was more irked by the constant apologies for "gay jokes" until people felt they could include me in the "gay jokes"

shefellover93

mango salsa wrote: »

Sorry to butt in but em - what/who are you writing for? A blog? A newspaper?

Oh no problem!

I'm a freelance writer, so really it's just something I wanted to write about, and since I have the time to do it I will. If I'm happy with the finished product then I might approach magazines/websites/newspapers about the subject. Really though it's just something I've wanted to write about for some time!

You can find some of my work here

Annasopra

shefellover93 wrote: »

Oh no problem!

I'm a freelance writer, so really it's just something I wanted to write about, and since I have the time to do it I will. If I'm happy with the finished product then I might approach magazines/websites/newspapers about the subject. Really though it's just something I've wanted to write about for some time!

You can find some of my work here

Ok cool. We weren't sure if you were a journalist or not. We're probably going to update the charter to say journalists have to contact a mod first by pm. Anyway no problems with this. As long as people know that something might get published etc.

shefellover93

mango salsa wrote: »

Ok cool. We weren't sure if you were a journalist or not. We're probably going to update the charter to say journalists have to contact a mod first by pm. Anyway no problems with this. As long as people know that something might get published etc.

Oh yeah no I'm no well known, paid journalist (One of these days!). I'll be putting up the finished piece so that everyone here can have a look at it and discuss it I'm a regular enough visitor to this forum, have a few gay friends and relatives so I like keeping in touch with the community

Like I said if anyone has anything to contribute to the thread feel free

stephen_n

Homophobia like a lot of nasty things grows in the dark and withers in the light, this is true in sport too. After playing with the warriors for four years and only meeting the very rare homophobic attitude, from opposition and their supporters. Mostly these took the form of insecurity, as in not taking a shower with the gays! By and large though there was very little homophobic comment and general respect given by other teams. The Leinster branch have always been quite supportive and so have the club who's grounds we use to play out matches. I think once it's out there and people see gay teams play, they quickly realise there is very little difference. Sport has the potential to be a great challenger of homophobic ideas!

Ambersky

Glad you got something out of the links I posted shefellover93.
I only posted all that because of the intensity of the response I got to posting here http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=79553941
Glad it proved useful in the end.

whattotdo

http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/news/homophobia-likely-racism-report-040349826.html

ShanePouch

As someone who has been actively involved in sports for many years, it's never been an issue for me to know the sexual preferences of my team mates. It's their business and I'd have no issue with whatever their sexual preferences might be.

Some str8 people feel uncomfortable about homosexuality, whether on the sports field, in the classroom, in the pulpit and in all walks of life. We disagree with people on all sorts of subjects from religion to politics to private education to Ryanair vs Aer Lingus and so and so on. Disagreement is fine and we have to learn to differentiate between disagreement and hostility.

I suppose whats interesting is why we expect others to have different opinions about all sorts of subjects, but not want to allow them to have a different view, from our own, about sexuality?

whattotdo

ShanePouch wrote: »

As someone who has been actively involved in sports for many years, it's never been an issue for me to know the sexual preferences of my team mates. It's their business and I'd have no issue with whatever their sexual preferences might be.

Some str8 people feel uncomfortable about homosexuality, whether on the sports field, in the classroom, in the pulpit and in all walks of life. We disagree with people on all sorts of subjects from religion to politics to private education to Ryanair vs Aer Lingus and so and so on. Disagreement is fine and we have to learn to differentiate between disagreement and hostility.

I suppose whats interesting is why we expect others to have different opinions about all sorts of subjects, but not want to allow them to have a different view, from our own, about sexuality?

People don't choose to be gay,they are born gay as far as I'm concerned.Whereas,with religion,politics it's a choice and you can switch your support to another party or change faith/become an atheist..a gay man/woman can't wake up tomorrow and say 'I think I'll be straight today'

floggg

I think it really trivialises the issue to say that people "disagree" on homosexuality. Obviously everybody is entitled to their views, not matter how morally repugnant they might seem to others, but when people espouses views that I am morally deviant, instrinsically disordered, unnatural etc it really doesn't feel like they disagree with me, it feels very much like an attack on me, my personality, my relationships.

I cannot fathom anybody telling a victim of racial or sexual discrimination that the discriminator is entitled to disagree with them on their humanity, ability, worth etc.

While I can't force them to change their opinions, I will never agree to disagree with them. I will stand up for my right to participate in society, sport or whatever else on equal terms and if they have an issue with it, its them who should exclude themselves, not me.

OP, there's loads of topical stories in the media in the last few weeks - the gay Olympians, the German Bundesliga player who in an anonymous interview said he wouldn't come out for fear of the damage it would do, Angela Merkel and Clarke Carlisle's (head of UK PFA) responses, the latter of which acknowledged that there would be drawbacks to coming out but also commercial benefits which shows there's a change, Chris Kluwe's brilliant defence of Brendon Ayanbadejo's marriage equality advocacy (both NFL players), the college American footballer dropped for making out with his (much older) boyfriend at a match, Aussie rules player (amateur) who came out as part of a petition to make the AFL promote an anti-homopbia message, the Toronto Bluejays baseball player suspended for displaying a homophobic message, all the soccer players fined/suspended in England over homophobic tweets, Antonio cassano saying he wouldn't want to play with a gay player, Anton hysen and David testo as openly gay soccer players, Jonathan de falco, a former Belgian soccer player and now gay porn star, and of course Justin Fashanau. And our very own Donal Óg Cusack (and his great speech at Derry pride).

Sorry, that's just stories I can think off the top of my head and too lazy to find links, but is plenty to go on and all readily available on google. There's enough there to show the great progress being made and the long way to go still.

Oh, and of course the devils, warriors, Phoenix tigers, front runners etc on the local level.

I want a credit if u use any of the above!

Annasopra

http://www.fluter.de/de/114/thema/10768/

Translated by my German friends

A MAN WHO DOESN'T REALLY EXIST
CONVERSATION WITH A GAY SOCCER PLAYER FROM DEUTSCHE BUNDESLIGA
(federal football league Germany)
09/11/2012 | Adrian Bechtold

Long we talked, and until recently it was unclear whether the meeting ever comes about. I enter the room and find before a visibly overwhelmed young man who would prefer to go the next second. He stays. No one must know of this meeting, because he does not exist. Despite many misgivings, he speaks for the first time on a sexuality which does not exist in the world of football.

You just come from an interview for a public television station. What if they had asked you about your homosexuality?

I would deny, of course. Try to keep the issue completely out of the public. The more people talk, the greater the pressure on me. I can't afford a big debate about myself.

Isn't the pressure now already immensely?

Of course. The price for my dream of the Bundesliga is high. I have to be an actor every day and deny myself. At first it was a big game and not a problem, but over time it consumed much of me. I do not know if I can stand the constant pressure between being the heterosexual showcase player and the possible discovery until the end of my career.

Fear of the public

But what would be wrong with that, when it comes to the surface? Also no one switches off when Hape Kerkerling (= german gay entertainer) moderates a program.

I think football and the media are completely different. I find it stupid of course but the stereotype of the "standard gay" somehow fits into the colorful world of television. Footballers, however, are the male stereotype per se. They must love sports, fight aggressively and be a great role model. Gays are none of it. Full stop. Or should anyone enlighten a mob of fans before the game that "the gays" are just ordinary men and will be playing the game straight after? Unimaginable. In the situation in the stadium or after the game every little thing becomes a big issue. I wouldn't be safe any more if my sexuality came to public knowledge.

Are you angry with the fans?

No, certainly not. I once heard that in such heated situations only the cerebellum rules in humans and there is just no built in tolerance. You have to accept this in the stadium and the fans are just the essential engine that drives me every game day also. Generally a heterosexual hardly reflects his sexuality. Nobody would have the idea to ask themselves for several years whether their own feelings are real. It just fits into the world. From this position you have to hope for tolerance - understanding will never happen. For this the topic is to personally and we gays are not better when it comes to lesbians or heterosexuals. But after all we are tolerant. But even if it would work with the fans, the pure public would be worse.

Why such a fear of the public?

The stories, newspaper covers and magazines. Everyone would like to find out what Ikind of bad things I do with my partner under the blanket. If the super-male football player is top or bottom. There is a lot! My passion, football, would become irrelevant. Either I walk with my partner to an event and be in all the media for three weeks or I refer to my privacy and lie to myself. There is simply no solution. Impossible to just – as a heterosexual player – present my new partner new partner and be forgotten the next day. Normality does not exist. At least it would not be normal for me to have a whole nation to discuss my intimate life. This is just for me and the person next to me.

And there is "the person next to you" - to ask at least one of the hated questions?

Here and now, I think the question is even extremely important. This person doesn't exist for me and also not for any other player I am aware of. But: I even had a relationship once. But you can imagine that a month-long game of hiding is pure poison for a partnership. I had to decide. Clearly, the success in football was great afterwards but the price was accordingly.

Instead of the partner there is the paid players wife for the important occasions?

Basically the cliché is unfortunately true. There are occasions where I simple can't come alone. But there is always a way. They all do it. Just that I never had to pay - after all just like a real gay I have my best girlfriends.

You have just mentioned other players. Is there a kind of "Club of the gay Bundesliga players" and does the rest of your team know about your homosexuality?

(Laughs) No, there is no club. Quite the contrary. I do know of several players in the league. Real meetings don't happen - would probably be a bit too obvious. It is a difficult parallel existence which continues also in the team. It's hardly talked about but actually everyone should know about it. *

Occupational ambitions, private dreams

So there are no problems in the team?

Not at all. I do not know any player in the league who has a problem with it. There are even some who ask with great interest - but this really is a rare exception. Of course, some situations, such as taking a shower, are in the beginning unpleasant for both sides. But I have no interest in my co-players and at some point it does not matter for any side any more. After all my colleagues are not ignorant, despite their bad reputation.

And what do your colleagues ask?

Oh, technical interest comes to the surface (laughs). But also they ask about my partner. After all, I know the stories of my colleagues already from the newspaper and don't have to ask. All totally normal.

Was an outing after the positive opinion of the DFB (= German Football Federation) by Theo Zwanziger also not an option? **

Not really. That's all well said, if you don't have to go to the stadium the next day. Perhaps it would be an option if more players would come out, but even then I see little hope at the moment. After all, it would still be a minority on which you could focus on.

Why did you decide to give this interview?

It is important to make the first move. I try myself out at the moment doing this. In addition, you can understand my situation and because of this it's easier. Other don't dare to make that step despite the anonymity. Perhaps my colleagues do not feel encouraged. I would like to see them speaking. We can talk again in a year and then maybe I can put my name on what was said.

What about your future?

In football to get better – there are still a few wishes I would like to grant myself. Private will beIn my private life nothing will chance. Of course I would be happy if if at once an avalanche of outings broke I would be surprised of whom I didn't know yet. A bit of normality would make me happy. Simply to go with my future partner to a restaurant in public. A dream.



Adrian Bechtold (25) is a lawyer and freelance journalist. He lives in Germany and Switzerland.

* The sentence was in the first published version: is hardly spoken about, yet everyone knows about it. The ambiguous wording has been changed in consultation with the player and the author with the objective to emphasize the actual meaning of the sentence.

** (Note Martina) Theo Zwanziger is the president of the DFB. He gave an interview in the beginning of 2010 where he said that gay football players get every support of the DFB if the need because “girls and boys should just play football, no matter what their sexual orientation they have.”

Editor's note:
We on fluter.de work for a long time well and trusted with the author Adrian Bechthold and have no doubts about the quality of his work as a journalist. Adrian Bechtold has been working as a freelance journalist (especially for television, radio and online media), was active among others in the Youth Press (politics orange, Mobile Academy) and is a senior lecturer in youth journalism in schools. We supported him in researching and working on that interview. We have received a written confirmation of the author about the fact that the interview actually took place and we do not doubt about the accuracy of the writing. We are looking forward to the lively discussions about "homosexuality and football" here with us on fluter.de but also, for example, in many forums of football fans.

A MAN WHO DOESN'T REALLY EXIST
CONVERSATION WITH A GAY SOCCER PLAYER FROM DEUTSCHE BUNDESLIGA
(federal football league Germany)

09/11/2012 | Adrian Bechtold

We have talked for a long time, and until recently, it was unclear whether the meeting would actually take place. I enter the room and see before me a visibly overwhelmed young man who would prefer to go right the next second. He stays. No one must know of this meeting, because it does not exist. Despite many misgivings, he speaks for the first time about a sexuality that has lost nothing in the world of football.

You're just out of an interview for a public television station. What your homosexuality would be a topic there?

I would deny it, of course. Try to keep the issue completely out of the public sphere. The more it would be talked about, the greater the pressure on me. I just cannot allow myself to have this huge discussion on my person.

Isn’t the pressure already immense?

Of course. The price for my dream that I’m living in the Bundesliga is high. I have to be an actor every day and deny myself. At first it was a big game and not a problem, but over time it consumed much of me. I don’t know if I can stand the constant pressure between the exemplary heterosexual players and the possible discovery (of my sexuality) until the end of my career.

Fear of public speaking

But what would be wrong with that, if it comes out? It also doesn’t scare anyone away when in show business Hape Kerkeling (an openly gay German moderator) moderated a program.

I think football and the media are completely different. Even if I think this is of course stupid, the stereotype of the "standard gay" somehow fits into the colourful world of television. Footballers, however, are the male stereotype par excellence. They must love sports, to fight aggressively and at the same time to be a great role model. Gays are simply none of that. Period. Or should anyone enlighten a mob of fans before the game that "the gays" really are just ordinary men and they play just as well? Unimaginable. In the situation of a stadium after a game, every little situation is taken to make a huge deal out of it. I wouldn’t be safe for me anymore if my sexuality became a public matter.

Are you then get angry with the fans?

No, certainly not. I once heard that in such heated moods, only the cerebellum ruled in humans and there just is not where tolerance can be found. I also have to accept this in the stadium and the fans are just the essential engine that also drives me every day there is a match. Generally a heterosexual hardly reflects his sexuality. Nobody would have the idea to ask themselves several years after, whether their own feelings are actually real. They just fit into the world. From this position you can only hope for tolerance – but there never will be understanding. This topic is just too pesonal and we gays are not better when it comes to lesbian or heterosexuals. But we are always tolerant. But even if I’d come to good terms with the fans, the public sphere would be worse.

Why so afraid of the public sphere?

The stories, the front pages and magazines. Everyone would like to find out what sort of bad thinks I might do with my partner under the bed sheets. Who of the super-male football players lies below and who lies above. There is a lot! But my passion, football, wouldn’t be relevant. Either I go with my boyfriend to an event and I am present then for three weeks all over the media or I appeal to my privacy and lie to myself. There is no easy solution. Impossible, to present my new partner just as a heterosexual player does, and the next day it would all be forgotten. Normality does not exist. At least it would not be normal for me to have a whole nation to discuss my intimate life. That is just my business and of the person next to me.

And is there "the person next to you" - to ask at least one of the hated questions?

Here and now, I think the question is even extremely important. There is not such a person for me now and neither for other players that I know. Although I even had a relationship. But you can imagine that a month-long game of hiding is pure poison for a partnership. I had to decide. Clearly, the success in football then was nice. The price was accordingly high.

Instead of the boyfriend, is there a paid acting wife for the important occasions?

The cliché is unfortunately basically true. On occasion, I just cannot come on my own and then there are always ways. They all do it. Only I never had to pay - after all, I, like a real gay man, have also best girlfriends.

You have just mentioned other players. Is there a kind of "Club of the gay Budesliga players" and does the rest of the team knows of your homosexuality?

(Laughs) No, it's not a club. Quite the contrary. I do know of several players in the league. But there are no proper meetings - would probably attract too much attention. This is a difficult parallel existence, which also continues in the team. They barely talk about it, but actually everyone should know already. *

Professional ambitions, private dreams

Are there no problems in the team?

Not at all. I don’t know any player around the league who has a problem with it. There are even some who ask with great interest - but this really is a rare exception. Of course, some situations, such as taking a shower was uncomfortable for both sides at the beginning. But I have no interest in the team mates and at some point it’s not a deal to anyone anymore. Besides, my colleagues are not ignorant, despite the bad reputation.

And then do some colleagues ask?

Oh, some quite technical interest comes to light there(laughs). But they even ask about a boyfriend. After all, I know the stories of my colleagues already from the newspapers and I don’t need to ask anymore. All totally normal.

Was an outing after the positive opinion of Theo Zwanziger from the German Football Federation also not an option?

Not really. That's all well said when you don’t have to go the next day to the stadium. Perhaps you could get over it if more players would come out, but even then I see little hope at the moment. Finally, it would still be a minority, which they could easily tear apart.

Why did you decided to make this interview?

It is important to make the first move. I’m just trying it myself. In addition, you can understand my situation and so it’s easier to speak. Other don’t dare to make this step despite the anonymity. Perhaps my colleagues do not feel encouraged. I would wish so. We can talk again in a year and then maybe I can put my name on what was said.

How does your future looks like?

In football, to work harder – after all I still have a few wishes that I'd like to fulfil. In my private life, the situation will not change. I would be of course very happy if all of a sudden there would be an avalanche of outings and I could just be amazed to see all of those that I don’t know of yet. A bit of normality would make me happy already. Just to go out in public with my future partner to a restaurant. A dream.

Adrian Bechtold (25) is a lawyer and freelance journalist. He lives in Germany and Switzerland.

* The sentence was in the first published version: is hardly spoken about, yet everyone knows about it. The ambiguous wording has been changed in consultation with the player and author with the objective of the actual statement intended to emphasize.

ShanePouch

floggg wrote: »

I think it really trivialises the issue to say that people "disagree" on homosexuality. Obviously everybody is entitled to their views, not matter how morally repugnant they might seem to others, but when people espouses views that I am morally deviant, instrinsically disordered, unnatural etc it really doesn't feel like they disagree with me, it feels very much like an attack on me, my personality, my relationships.

Of course I also think it wrong to disagree with anyone else in their legal choices, and there are laws which make it a crime to discriminate.

Curiouisly, the words you choose “intrinsically disordered” and “morally deviant” are, I understand, words used by the Roman catholic church, and is they use those words now the should be prosecuted.

There is a difference between holding an opinion, or being uncomfortable about an issue, and hurling abuse such as that you quote.

Free speech must extend to those with whom we disagree, but not when it breaks the law or is an incitement to hate.

Annasopra

Folks - please keep this discussion on topic

Annasopra

If anyone is interested there is a conference next month on this

http://www.coe.int/t/dg4/epas/News/News_2012_Utrecht_Conf_EN.asp

whattotdo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QhX9idfN3Hg


Britain's gay footballers

periodictable

Pretty upsetting stuff here, but the reaction of this lad's team mates and club was terrific.

http://www.volleywood.net/volleyball-related-news/the-worst-fans/

shefellover93

Here's the first draft of the piece anyways. I know it's a little rough but I'll tighten it up later The working title is 'Playing the Field', but if that's offensive to anyone let me know, I don't wanna send out the wrong message before I've even started!

---

‘Don’t drop your soap in the shower’ was what my Geography teacher once said when we asked him about homosexuality.

While a kind-hearted man in his nature, a self-confessed homophobe and also the head coach of the rugby team, an unfortunate if coincidental combination. And though I respected him for being up-front about it, can you imagine someone who was openly racist in such a powerful position? You see, after the world gives itself a collective pat on the back for giving so much support to the Paralympics, soccer continues to ostracise those who are different in another way. Having battled with racism (A problem that’s been rearing its ugly head once more recently), sexism and politics; again football finds itself at the centre of a cultural problem that refuses to go away.

It is said that one in every ten people are homosexual, that is, are exclusively interested in their own gender. There are 92 league clubs in England, each with a squad of averagely 25. That’s 2300 players, so going by my rationale there should be 230 gay players in the top four divisions in England right? Now that indeed may well be the case, but the current number of openly gay players amongst these ranks is a big fat 0. As a matter of fact, not a single British player has come out as being gay since Justin Fashanu in 1990, and when one hears Fashanu’s story you can’t blame them!

Upon his arrival as a teenager, the black British midfielder lit up the scene with sumptuous skill and a wicked shot. With Norwich he scored over 40 times which earned him the ‘honour’ of being the first million pound black player when bought by Brian Clough’s Nottingham Forest. Things didn’t work out at Forest though, and Clough described a disciplining he gave Fashanu for frequenting ‘poof’s clubs’ (this slur was played down by then-Forest captain John McGovern). Unfortunately at this point things began to fizzle out for Justin, at which stage he decided to come out. Following the announcement his own brother John refused to show his support, and spoke out in a Sun headline entitled ‘John Fashanu: My Gay Brother is an Outcast’, he was also seen on TV criticizing his brother’s decision. Justin himself suffered the taunts of away supporters because of his own decision and stated that his own teammates used taunt him in a malicious way. Justin moved to America in 1997 where he retired, less than a year later allegations emerged that Fashanu had sexually assaulted a 17-year-old boy in Maryland. A once brilliant midfielder was found hung on May 3rd 1998. All charges were dropped due to lack of evidence.

So after the most difficult decision of his life, Fashanu was out casted by his family, taunted by supporters and team-mates, and eventually hung himself. It’s no surprise no footballers have come out since. What hope is there for young gay men who want to make the step up to professional game, or for current professionals who bear the burden everyday of being someone they’re not just to be accepted? ‘Always be yourself’, what a load of tripe! More-over, there’s hardly a huge queue of straight players standing up for gay rights and paving the way forward. Due to football’s backward mentality any player who does so runs the risk of being labelled something they’re not by the media, and adding more fuel to the fire for opposing supporters. While the FA has launched a campaign against homophobia in football, it’s not nearly as prevalent as their current priority ‘respect the referee’. Why is this serious problem not a priority? Do the FA’s just think it will gradually get better over time with absolutely no input whatsoever?

In other sports athletes have come out and been entirely supported, even in our country, one of the most conservative in the Western World. Donal Óg’s coming out has sparked a wave of acceptance for homosexuality in a country that outlawed gay marriage up until 2010. In another mainstream British sport rugby, Welsh international Gareth Thomas came out in 2007 to the plaudits of fans, fellow players, and an entire nation. In both examples these players have proven to be an exceptional role model for homosexual people of all ages to summon the courage to be who they are, why doesn’t the biggest, best, and most influential sport have the same?

While other sports have embraced those with a different orientation as they would any other, football still stands in the conservative time warp. It alienates taunts, and outcast’s those who have the courage to stand up for their rights, and straight or gay, that’s despicable.

floggg

Some constructive criticism:

Firstly gay marriage is still not provided for under Irish law. We have civil partnership but that is a very different and legally inferior form of union.

Secondly, I don't think you have taken a fully balanced view on things. Yes, there us a lot of work for soccer to do but there are also encouraging signs. I think you should give some consideration to what is or isn't being done on the ground at the minute. While tragic and informative, the Justin Fashanau example is a lifetime ago in terms of gay rights. The treatment and perception of LGBT people by society has radically changed since 1998 so it's not illustrative of current views

Also, while there was generally a positive response, I don't think you can say Donal Óg has escaped abuse. If you check his speech to Derry pride you will hear him talk about abuse received. To my knowledge no ban has ever been handed out to GAA supporters for such abuse.

And I don't think you can credit him with transforming Irish views on homosexuality. While undoubtedly a very brave and strong man, I would imagine its the transformation in Irish society's views on homosexuality that facilitated him being able to come out.

Sorry, don't mean to nitpick or criticise but I assume since you are posting a draft you want feedback.

Annasopra

I'd broadly agree with what floggg is saying

I think also with regard to Donal og coming out its interesting that the GAA never made a public statement on the matter, that homophobic facebook pages were created (and since taken down), that Donal og is still the only publicly out player and also the spat between Phil Prendergast MEP and the GAA when she mentioned the issue.

I'm not sure if you also wanted to look at lgbt sport as well. There is quite a vibrant group of lgbt sports clubs in Ireland; rugby, soccer, hiking, tennis, wet and wild (outdoor stuff such as kayaking, rock climbing etc) and we have had international tournaments here as well. Limerick is also applying for the Gay Games in 2018

shefellover93

floggg wrote: »

Some constructive criticism:

Firstly gay marriage is still not provided for under Irish law. We have civil partnership but that is a very different and legally inferior form of union.

Dunno why that was in there, I actually took note of the difference when I read it, thanks for pointing it out!

Secondly, I don't think you have taken a fully balanced view on things. Yes, there us a lot of work for soccer to do but there are also encouraging signs. I think you should give some consideration to what is or isn't being done on the ground at the minute. While tragic and informative, the Justin Fashanau example is a lifetime ago in terms of gay rights. The treatment and perception of LGBT people by society has radically changed since 1998 so it's not illustrative of current views

Yes but football is still a long way behind other sports, and in order to get my message across that point must be emphasized, and though you're right about Fashnau his treatment has dramatically affected how footballers percieve 'coming out'

Also, while there was generally a positive response, I don't think you can say Donal Óg has escaped abuse. If you check his speech to Derry pride you will hear him talk about abuse received. To my knowledge no ban has ever been handed out to GAA supporters for such abuse.



And I don't think you can credit him with transforming Irish views on homosexuality. While undoubtedly a very brave and strong man, I would imagine its the transformation in Irish society's views on homosexuality that facilitated him being able to come out.

My wording was slightly naive in that respect, re-worded it in the latest draft

Will post the latest draft now

shefellover93

‘Don’t drop your soap in the shower’ was what my Geography teacher once said when we asked him about homosexuality.

While a kind-hearted man in his nature, a self-confessed homophobe and also the head coach of the rugby team, an unfortunate if coincidental combination. And though I respected him for being up-front about it, can you imagine someone who was openly racist in such a powerful position? You see, after the world gives itself a collective pat on the back for giving so much support to the Paralympics, soccer continues to ostracise those who are different in another way. Having battled with racism (A problem that’s been rearing its ugly head once more recently), sexism and politics; again football finds itself at the centre of a cultural problem that refuses to go away.

It is said that one in every ten people are homosexual, that is, are exclusively interested in their own gender. There are 92 league clubs in England, each with a squad of averagely 25. That’s 2300 players, so going by my rationale there should be 230 gay players in the top four divisions in England right? Now that indeed may well be the case, but the current number of openly gay players amongst these ranks is a big fat 0. As a matter of fact, not a single British player has come out as being gay since Justin Fashanu in 1990, and when one hears Fashanu’s story you can’t blame them!

Upon his arrival as a teenager, the black British midfielder lit up the scene with sumptuous skill and a wicked shot. With Norwich he scored over 40 times which earned him the ‘honour’ of being the first million pound black player when bought by Brian Clough’s Nottingham Forest. Things didn’t work out at Forest though, and Clough described a disciplining he gave Fashanu for frequenting ‘poof’s clubs’ (this slur was played down by then-Forest captain John McGovern). Unfortunately at this point things began to fizzle out for Justin, at which stage he decided to come out. Following the announcement his own brother John refused to show his support, and spoke out in a Sun headline entitled ‘John Fashanu: My Gay Brother is an Outcast’, he was also seen on TV criticizing his brother’s decision. Justin himself suffered the taunts of away supporters because of his own decision and stated that his own teammates used taunt him in a malicious way. Justin moved to America in 1997 where he retired, less than a year later allegations emerged that Fashanu had sexually assaulted a 17-year-old boy in Maryland. A once brilliant midfielder was found hung on May 3rd 1998. All charges were dropped due to lack of evidence.

So after the most difficult decision of his life, Fashanu was out casted by his family, taunted by supporters and team-mates, and eventually hung himself. It’s no surprise no footballers have come out since. What hope is there for young gay men who want to make the step up to professional game, or for current professionals who bear the burden everyday of being someone they’re not just to be accepted? ‘Always be yourself’, what a load of tripe! More-over, there’s hardly a huge queue of straight players standing up for gay rights and paving the way forward. Due to football’s backward mentality any player who does so runs the risk of being labelled something they’re not by the media, and adding more fuel to the fire for opposing supporters. While the FA has launched a campaign against homophobia in football, it’s not nearly as prevalent as their current priority ‘respect the referee’. Why is this serious problem not a priority? Do the FA’s just think it will gradually get better over time with absolutely no input whatsoever?

In other sports athletes have come out and been entirely supported, even in our country, one of the most conservative in the Western World. Donal Óg’s coming out (while he did receive abuse) has proved to be a catalyst towards acceptance for homosexuality in a country that only legalised civil partnership in 2010. In another mainstream British sport, rugby, Welsh international Gareth Thomas came out in 2007 to the plaudits of fans, fellow players, and an entire nation. In both examples these players have proven to be an exceptional role model for homosexual people of all ages to summon the courage to be who they are; why doesn’t the biggest, best, and most influential sport have the same? Especially when there’s been such good work done on a local level with LGBT clubs competing in leagues all over Ireland, while Limerick has applied for the ‘Gay Games’ in 2018!

While other sports have embraced those with a different orientation as they would any other, football predominantly still stands in the conservative time warp. It alienates, taunts, and outcasts gays who have the courage to stand up for their rights, and straight or gay, that’s despicable.


This is probably the final draft so unless there's any more major concerns I'll be looking to get it published

Annasopra

I just think the stuff about Donal og is worded all wrongly. I would say his coming out has been generally very positive. His coming out has been part of a growing culture of acceptance of LGBT people generally in recent years alongside campaigns for marriage equality. However Donal Og has faced taunts on the pitch and online and the GAA has remained silent on the issue and has been antagonistic when an MEP raised this as an issue.

shefellover93

mango salsa wrote: »

I just think the stuff about Donal og is worded all wrongly. I would say his coming out has been generally very positive. His coming out has been part of a growing culture of acceptance of LGBT people generally in recent years alongside campaigns for marriage equality. However Donal Og has faced taunts on the pitch and online and the GAA has remained silent on the issue and has been antagonistic when an MEP raised this as an issue.

Donal Óg’s coming out (along with increasing support for LGBT groups around the country) has no doubt proved to be an inspiration for some young people who feel afraid of doing the same, his decision made even more admirable when one considers how unsupportive the GAA have been since.

How does that sound?

paulmorro

Not wanting to get on your back on what's a good piece but there's something still off for me when you talk about rugby and GAA. Yes, both of these sports have had a high profile player who has come out, but that's all it is. In each case, one person. That means that there are so many others who feel unable to come out. Yes, it's great that we live in a time where they can be respected (for the most part) for what they've done, but both sports still have a long way to go before we can definitely say that they are fully accepting of gay people.

shefellover93

paulmorro wrote: »

Not wanting to get on your back on what's a good piece but there's something still off for me when you talk about rugby and GAA. Yes, both of these sports have had a high profile player who has come out, but that's all it is. In each case, one person. That means that there are so many others who feel unable to come out. Yes, it's great that we live in a time where they can be respected (for the most part) for what they've done, but both sports still have a long way to go before we can definitely say that they are fully accepting of gay people.

While I get your point, and sport is behind generally compared to other parts of society, it's football in particular I'm writing about, and that's even further behind than the rest

Annasopra

shefellover93 wrote: »

Donal Óg’s coming out (along with increasing support for LGBT groups around the country) has no doubt proved to be an inspiration for some young people who feel afraid of doing the same, his decision made even more admirable when one considers how unsupportive the GAA have been since.

How does that sound?

Not quite.

I think the stuff about increased support for lgbt groups is more about increased visibility of lgbt people generally and increased support for lgbt rights such as marriage equality.

The bit about the gaa being unsupportive is probably a bit wrongly worded as well. They have supported Donal og as well but haven't made any statements on homophobia - there's a bit of a difference I think.

On the overall article something I think you sort of didn't look enough at where the homophobia is coming from; players, media, fans

floggg

shefellover93 wrote: »

While I get your point, and sport is behind generally compared to other parts of society, it's football in particular I'm writing about, and that's even further behind than the rest

Again, not trying to be too critical but I think the problem is that you reached the conclusion that football is behind the rest and more homophobic and presented things in way that supported that conclusion, rather than drawing a conclusion from an analysis of the facts.

It was admittedly low key, but the English FA did have a campaign on this. I can't think of one GAA campaign on homophobia or racism, and I've never heard of any in rugby though I don't go to any games.

Quite apart from any campaigns run by organisers there are quite a number of significant differences between soccer, GAA and rugby which makes any simple attempt to point to the number of gay players an oversimplification and misleading. The global profile, the level and type of media coverage, the support bases, the sponsorship/advertising all impact on it.

I think it would be a lot easier for a GAA it rugby player to come out as they would never be under the same scrutiny, or subject to the same terrace culture etc.

The fact that Anton Hysen has gotten so much coverage shows how much hype and sensationalism there would he. Few people want to put themselves through that.

I think because of its global profile there is something of a clamour for a high profile soccer player to come out. But at the same time that clamour just makes it harder for them to do so.

Annasopra

In terms of Rugby it's also worth mentioning Ben Cohen and the stand up foundation

http://www.standupfoundation.com/