Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 12/13 - Mod note #129 & 1087

Bounty Hunter

Continued from here - have at it lads.

Mod note - Hillsborough - http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=80732511&postcount=129

Melion

Hurrah

Kerrigooney

Damn you Melion :pac:

mike65

This thread is too fast for me (where does the time go)

Vicxas

This has to be the most replicated thread on Boards

_blank_

mike65 wrote: »

This thread is too fast for me (where does the time go)

when a person gets to your age Mike, most things are too fast.

D'Agger

Gets on first page

Kerrigooney

mike65 wrote: »

This thread is too fast for me (where does the time go)

I had a wedding on transfer deadline day so missed that and the day after....took me all day sunday to read through 2 days of posts. I know that`s a busy time anyway but yeah this thread is savagely busy.

Bounty Hunter

jaysus your fast on the auld Doni tags lads

GavRedKing

Bounty Hunter wrote: »

jaysus your fast on the auld Doni tags lads

I may have added one.

I'll let ya guess which one. :pac:

Yakult

New thread smell. Mmmmmm

ush

Yesil scored again for Ze German U-19s. Time to throw our number 36 in at the deep end?

spockety

ush wrote: »

Yesil scored again for Ze German U-19s. Time to throw our number 36 in at the deep end?

Normally I'd say no. But these are not normal circumstances we are in.

For Liverpool to have any shot at a title or CL spots, we need a clicking miracle.

We need to be looking back in 20 years going..

"Ah it was amazing. Nobody could have imagined it. It all just clicked. Brendan Rogers came pretty much out of nowhere and turned out to be a master, and we got this 1m wonder kid from Germany who banged in 32 goals that season. Our entire senior squad all stayed fit, and our woodwork hits dropped from 30 the previous season to only 3 the year we won the title. Everything really did just fall into place, and once it did we dominated for 4 years against teams who threw literally billions at trying to knock us off the perch. It was an incredible time to be a Liverpool supporter. Actually it was also the year that Spurs and Everton got relegated, absolutely nothing went right for either of them. Amazing times".

super_furry

Got to give him time from the bench at the very least. We have such limited options up front.

A2LUE42

spockety wrote: »

Normally I'd say no. But these are not normal circumstances we are in.

For Liverpool to have any shot at a title or CL spots, we need a clicking miracle.

We need to be looking back in 20 years going..

"Ah it was amazing. Nobody could have imagined it. It all just clicked. Brendan Rogers came pretty much out of nowhere and turned out to be a master, and we got this 1m wonder kid from Germany who banged in 32 goals that season. Our entire senior squad all stayed fit, and our woodwork hits dropped from 30 the previous season to only 3 the year we won the title. Everything really did just fall into place, and once it did we dominated for 4 years against teams who threw literally billions at trying to knock us off the perch. It was an incredible time to be a Liverpool supporter. Actually it was also the year that Spurs and Everton got relegated, absolutely nothing went right for either of them. Amazing times".

So..this year is going to be the year ?

We all live in hope.

mike65

I'd certainly have him as an option and a first team pick in the EL group stage (which will be as far as the team gets this year I imagine).

Handsome Bob

Just reading an excerpt from Rafa's new book in The Mirror, old news but he wanted to sign Jovetic and one of Distin/Upson in his final season. He seems convinced that if he had we would have won the league. TBH, I think there was more to our failures in that season than just a lack of Jovetic and a back up CB.

D'Agger

ush wrote: »

Yesil scored again for Ze German U-19s. Time to throw our number 36 in at the deep end?

I'd be for him being on the bench and given a cameo to see what he's all about.

That said, Sterling got his chance having had pre season to impress, Rodgers may want to give him some time on the training ground before dunking him into the depths of the first team.

Turtyturd

D'Agger wrote: »

I'd be for him being on the bench and given a cameo to see what he's all about.

That said, Sterling got his chance having had pre season to impress, Rodgers may want to give him some time on the training ground before dunking him into the depths of the first team.

But if he puts him in now he can take all the credit.

sweetie

Handsome Bob wrote: »

Just reading an excerpt from Rafa's new book in The Mirror, old news but he wanted to sign Jovetic and one of Distin/Upson in his final season. He seems convinced that if he had we would have won the league. TBH, I think there was more to our failures in that season than just a lack of Jovetic and a back up CB.

Torres fitness was deciding factor that year so jovetic might have made the difference in turning those draws to wins. Our defence was fine and upson?....eughh!

Vicxas

I think we definietely should give Yesil a try, he at least seems to be on the mark goals wise.

LiamoSail

Turtyturd wrote: »

D'Agger wrote: »

I'd be for him being on the bench and given a cameo to see what he's all about.

That said, Sterling got his chance having had pre season to impress, Rodgers may want to give him some time on the training ground before dunking him into the depths of the first team.

But if he puts him in now he can take all the credit.

Rodgers quote about sterling could be bang on the money for all we know. Maybe when Rodgers came in, he didn't view sterling as playing in such a way as would suit his system, maybe he's worked with him to change a few aspects of his game to fit more into the system? Who the fcuk knows what he's done, but at worst, he's at least giving him his chance in the first team, and in the process giving hope to the younger players by demonstrating that it is possible to break into the first team from having come through the ranks at the club

He's also indicated his intention to give suso a run, and if at least one becomes a regular, he'll be the first manager since houllier to manage that. Yes I know the standard coming through hasn't been on a par throughout the last 10years, but Rodgers is at least giving them their opportunity

D'Agger

LiamoSail wrote: »

Rodgers quote about sterling could be bang on the money for all we know. Maybe when Rodgers came in, he didn't view sterling as playing in such a way as would suit his system, maybe he's worked with him to change a few aspects of his game to fit more into the system? Who the fcuk knows what he's done, but at worst, he's at least giving him his chance in the first team, and in the process giving hope to the younger players by demonstrating that it is possible to break into the first team from having come through the ranks at the club

He's also indicated his intention to give suso a run, and if at least one becomes a regular, he'll be the first manager since houllier to manage that. Yes I know the standard coming through hasn't been on a par throughout the last 10years, but Rodgers is at least giving them their opportunity

True I'm looking forward to seeing Suso given a chance - he's a player who has made rumblings in the past via twitter and clearly feels he deserves a shot - give him one and let's see what he's made of.

Regarding Yessil, I'd use Morgan for now seeing as he probably deserves a punt based on his scoring record coming up through the ranks. This way Rodgers has more time to weigh up if Yessil is good enough and then decide who's more suited to how he wants to play.

On another point, I really want to see Assaidi play!!

tibor

Missed the last few pages of the last thread so not sure if this has been posted, but here's a thorough rundown of "Being Liverpool".

http://www.sportingintelligence.com/2012/09/11/%E2%80%98being-liverpool%E2%80%99-an-intriguing-tale-of-transatlantic-sporting-disconnect-11090/

LiamoSail

Handsome Bob wrote: »

Just reading an excerpt from Rafa's new book in The Mirror, old news but he wanted to sign Jovetic and one of Distin/Upson in his final season. He seems convinced that if he had we would have won the league. TBH, I think there was more to our failures in that season than just a lack of Jovetic and a back up CB.

His final season or his second last when came second?

Sappy404

It would be a bit unfair on Ngoo and Morgan if Yesil went straight into the first team ahead of them, even in the Europa League. Surely he'll pay in the reserves for a while so he can be properly assessed. He's barely played any senior football.

Turtyturd

LiamoSail wrote: »

Rodgers quote about sterling could be bang on the money for all we know. Maybe when Rodgers came in, he didn't view sterling as playing in such a way as would suit his system, maybe he's worked with him to change a few aspects of his game to fit more into the system? Who the fcuk knows what he's done, but at worst, he's at least giving him his chance in the first team, and in the process giving hope to the younger players by demonstrating that it is possible to break into the first team from having come through the ranks at the club

He's also indicated his intention to give suso a run, and if at least one becomes a regular, he'll be the first manager since houllier to manage that. Yes I know the standard coming through hasn't been on a par throughout the last 10years, but Rodgers is at least giving them their opportunity

I just wanted him to get in before Hodgson laid a claim to him.;)

klose

Uefa are after witholding prize money for 23 teams from last years competitions on ffg groups, slightly relevent here as fsg are really banking on this being fully implemented. Athletico Madrid being the biggest club on the list.

tok9

LiamoSail wrote: »

His final season or his second last when came second?

I'd imagine his final since there was a quote from him saying in theory he should have been able to purchase Jovetic and Aquilani with the Alonso transfer.

D'Agger

Sappy404 wrote: »

It would be a bit unfair on Ngoo and Morgan if Yesil went straight into the first team ahead of them, even in the Europa League. Surely he'll pay in the reserves for a while so he can be properly assessed. He's barely played any senior football.

I don't rate Ngoo tbh - maybe I'm biased because I'm not overly fond of big strikers - I'd prefer pacey, play off the shoulder types tbh but I do see your point.

That said it's not a ticketing system to get into the first team, it's not first come - first served, if Yessil is better he should start

mike65

Sappy404 wrote: »

It would be a bit unfair on Ngoo and Morgan if Yesil went straight into the first team ahead of them, even in the Europa League. Surely he'll pay in the reserves for a while so he can be properly assessed. He's barely played any senior football.

Unfair? Well life is unfair and if Yesil is seen to be a better player then he has to get a go. No reason why the three of them can't be the EL squad forwards though.

LiamoSail

whippedcream wrote: »

Uefa are after witholding prize money for 23 teams from last years competitions on ffg groups, slightly relevent here as fsg are really banking on this being fully implemented. Athletico Madrid being the biggest club on the list.

Just seen that. They're not withholding prize money for overspending though, just for not being able to pay your bills. The action they're taking at the moment doesn't have any effect on those that run clubs the way we all used to when we cheated on championship manager to give outselves a few hundred million to spend

mike65

whippedcream wrote: »

Uefa are after witholding prize money for 23 teams from last years competitions on ffg groups, slightly relevent here as fsg are really banking on this being fully implemented. Athletico Madrid being the biggest club on the list.

here's the PA article

UEFA has withheld 23 clubs' share of European prize money due to their failure to pay debts to other clubs or tax bills. The clubs include some famous names in European football such as Atlético Madrid, Sporting Lisbon, Fenerbahce and Málaga, but no British sides.

The sanctions follow the first elements of Uefa's financial fair play rules coming into force regarding unpaid debts, with the prize money temporarily withheld pending further investigation.

The action was taken by the Uefa club financial control body (CFCB) investigatory chamber, chaired by the former Belgian prime minister Jean-Luc Dehaene.

Uefa said in a statement: "The clubs participating in Uefa club competitions had to provide information regarding the status of any overdue payables as at 30 June 2012. The CFCB investigatory chamber has identified that important overdue payables towards other clubs, and/or towards employees or social/tax authorities existed in 23 cases."

ush

Sappy404 wrote: »

It would be a bit unfair on Ngoo and Morgan if Yesil went straight into the first team ahead of them, even in the Europa League. Surely he'll pay in the reserves for a while so he can be properly assessed. He's barely played any senior football.

Fair? Where does fairness come into it? If Yesil is the one who can score regularly then he should get the nod on merit.

LiamoSail

tok9 wrote: »

LiamoSail wrote: »

His final season or his second last when came second?

I'd imagine his final since there was a quote from him saying in theory he should have been able to purchase Jovetic and Aquilani with the Alonso transfer.

I don't think jovetic and upson could have been the difference between 7th and 1st.

ciaranmac

LiamoSail wrote: »

Just seen that. They're not withholding prize money for overspending though, just for not being able to pay your bills. The action they're taking at the moment doesn't have any effect on those that run clubs the way we all used to when we cheated on championship manager to give outselves a few hundred million to spend

LOL that takes me back to my five in a row Liverpool side in CM 93. With Giggs and Gazza in it.

opr

If they're in that much trouble we should be raiding Sporting Lisbon for every youth player we can carry and maybe ask for Insua back please.

The top teams in Portugal this year actually made a great move similar to the way things work in Spain. From this season onwards the Portuguese League created B teams for the top 6 clubs in the league which was deemed Sporting, Benfica, Porto, Braga, Maritimo and Guimaraes. They are all competing in the Segunda Liga, the second tier of Portuguese football.

Sporting B are top of the league after five games. Many of the players who played in the Nextgen last year against us have been playing for the B team this season.

Opr

Sappy404

D'Agger wrote: »

I don't rate Ngoo tbh - maybe I'm biased because I'm not overly fond of big strikers - I'd prefer pacey, play off the shoulder types tbh but I do see your point.

That said it's not a ticketing system to get into the first team, it's not first come - first served, if Yessil is better he should start

mike65 wrote: »

Unfair? Well life is unfair and if Yesil is seen to be a better player then he has to get a go. No reason why the three of them can't be the EL squad forwards though.

ush wrote: »

Fair? Where does fairness come into it? If Yesil is the one who can score regularly then he should get the nod on merit.

This is my point, gents. We need to see what he can do before assessing his readiness for the first team. I believe he made one senior appearance at Leverkusen. I'd be very surprised if a goal at u21 level was enough to convince Rodgers that he's ready for a senior call-up in the next few weeks over players that have been at the club for years and who Rodgers has seen play plenty of times since coming in.

Handsome Bob

sweetie wrote: »

Torres fitness was deciding factor that year so jovetic might have made the difference in turning those draws to wins. Our defence was fine and upson?....eughh!

Central midfield was a major problem that season too.

mike65

UEFA "solidarity payments" for players released for Euro 2012s - Liverpool FC €1,972,376

the top six are

FC Bayern München €3,095,393
Real Madrid CF €2,996,585
FC Barcelona €2,210,202
Manchester City FC €2,069,465
Juventus €2,023,012
Liverpool FC €1,972,376

Fair to say LFC punching above their current weight by some distance.

ush

Don't know if its already been posted.

Hillsborough - Searching for the Truth

http://www.balls.ie/2012/09/11/watch-bbc-documentary-hillsborough-searching-for-the-truth/

amiable

Anyone that missed last nights ITV documentary on Hillsborough

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xtgacf_itv1-london-hillsborough-the-search-for-truth_news

amiable

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/sport/football/the-game/?blogId=Blog0fd8cd80-ce7f-4236-9e9b-6bae16c25d58Post4b26bf20-a31b-4b42-aed2-1f5a61d40f62&shareToken=a719a5872137582d2e88d51bf5582d1a

If you want to experience what it’s like when the population of an entire city holds its collective breath, visit Liverpool in the next 24 hours.

Look into the eyes of parents who live in hope of truth and justice and you will see a mixture of optimism and fear. Talk to people who have campaigned in the face of an establishment cover up and you will be struck by both their tension and their tenacity.

This is what almost 23 and a half years of living with the aftermath of the Hillsborough disaster comes down to – an anguished, almost desperate anticipation that at least one of the painfully raw wounds caused by British football’s worst tragedy can finally be healed.

Tomorrow, in the wonderful neoclassical setting of St George’s Hall, thousands of people will gather, just as they have done when the city’s two football clubs, Liverpool and Everton, have paraded the trophies they have won at home and abroad.

This time, though, it is something much more precious than silverware that those present are hoping to see, they want to be able to celebrate the triumph of truth over lies after more than two decades of suffering a stigma of slurs that began even before those who perished on the death trap that was the Leppings Lane end had even been identified.

For that to happen, for a merciful release to be granted, something must happen which has never happened before – the state must accept full responsibility for the tragic loss of 96 lives at Hillsborough.

There can be no more diversions, no hiding behind scurrilous front page headlines derived from unattributed briefings and no authority figures abusing their positions to try and justify or, worse, explain away the chronic failings of South Yorkshire Police and other public bodies on April 15, 1989.

There must also be an acceptance that, in the words of Tony Edwards, the only ambulance worker who made it on to the Hillsborough pitch on that fateful day, the emergency services did not “give the proper care and attention that was due to the people who were dying.”

That is the hope, that the Hillsborough Independent Panel, which has scrutinised hundreds of thousands of newly released documents relating to the disaster, will usher in a new era of responsibility and perhaps even accountability.

But anyone who has been involved in the campaign for justice at any level is all too aware of the potential pitfalls of hope, they have been here before only to be kicked in the bollocks and sent packing by an establishment that after failing to show due care for those who were killed or injured at Hillsborough, then added to the suffering by shifting blame in a desperate attempt to avert attention from their own deficiencies.

From the imposition of a 3.15pm cut off point following the controversial ruling of Dr Stefan Popper, the coroner, that all of the victims had lost their fight for life by that point, to Lord Justice Stuart-Smith’s scrutiny which Andy Burnham, the MP for Leigh, admitted yesterday “had all the feeling of an establishment cover up,” a succession of official doors have been slammed in the faces of campaigners and they are all to wary of it happening again.

That is why Liverpool has the feel of a tightly coiled spring right now, the truth feels close enough to be intoxicated by it but there is still a suspicion, one built on experience, that it could yet be suppressed, that there are vested interests who will stop at nothing to prevent the world from knowing without fear of contradiction that Liverpool supporters were not the villains of the piece at Hillsborough – as they were shamefully portrayed in The Sun newspaper – they were actually the heroes.

In his report into the disaster, Lord Justice Taylor demonstrated beyond all reasonable doubt that ticketless fans were not a cause of the disaster, nor was the consumption of alcohol a contributory factor.

Instead, the judge laid the blame at the door of South Yorkshire Police, a verdict which failed to lead to the prosecution of a single officer who was on duty that day.

“A blunder of the highest magnitude,” was how Taylor described the decision of Chief Superintendent David Duckenfield to open an exit gate, allowing around 2,000 fans to flood into an already congested central pen of the Leppings Lane terrace. He also condemned the “sluggish reaction and response [from police] when the crush occurred.”

Still, however, more than 22 years after the report was published, the vicious falsehoods and malicious myths which were peddled by sections of the media that were compliant to Margaret Thatcher’s Conservative government continue almost unabated.

Taylor may have been one of the country’s most prominent and respected legal figures but his report was never going to be studied by anything like the millions of people who were startled by The Sun’s revelations that came less than 48 hours after the disaster.

Accuracy and exactitude has played forlorn second fiddle to sensationalism and slander ever since and it is this wrong, perhaps more than any other, that now needs to be put right.

An exchange on Twitter today between David Conn, The Guardian sports writer who has been at the forefront of the media campaign on Hillsborough, and a supporter summed up the imbalance. Neither the name, nor the club that the fan supports are of any significance, but his ignorance is.

“They scream justice, justice for what?” the fan asked. “Everyone knows SYP are partly to blame, but so are some LFC fans with no tickets.” All Conn could do was direct the complainant to a report he had never taken the time to read. “Very depressed you’re repeating false stories dismissed in the Taylor Report,” he said. “Try to open your mind [and heart] tomorrow.”

In just one brief debate on Twitter, the enduring tragedy of Hillsborough had been captured. The truth has been struggling to make itself heard ever since April 15, 1989 but tomorrow that could all change.

Should that happen then the people of Liverpool can collectively breathe out and the tension which currently grips them will be replaced by a palpable feeling of relief and expressions, not of victory, but of vindication.

It has been a long, painful wait but the end to their suffering finally appears to be in sight.

super_furry

That solidarity payment could have clinched the Dempsey deal.

:pac:

Crash Bang Wall

whippedcream wrote: »

Uefa are after witholding prize money for 23 teams from last years competitions on ffg groups, slightly relevent here as fsg are really banking on this being fully implemented. Athletico Madrid being the biggest club on the list.

From what I could gather reading on that, the reasons behind it is more to do with not paying taxes & owing other clubs money etc, rather than overspendin like City & Chelsea

Francie Barrett

Sappy404 wrote: »

This is my point, gents. We need to see what he can do before assessing his readiness for the first team. I believe he made one senior appearance at Leverkusen. I'd be very surprised if a goal at u21 level was enough to convince Rodgers that he's ready for a senior call-up in the next few weeks over players that have been at the club for years and who Rodgers has seen play plenty of times since coming in.

It's wasn't under-21, it's under-19.

Francie Barrett

We shouldn't get too excited about Yesil, not just yet anyway. I seem to remember that Neil Mellor was a goal machine for us at reserve level, but in reality, he wasn't even Premier League quality, let alone Liverpool quality.

D'Agger

Francie Barrett wrote: »

We shouldn't get too excited about Yesil, not just yet anyway. I seem to remember that Neil Mellor was a goal machine for us at reserve level, but in reality, he wasn't even Premier League quality, let alone Liverpool quality.

You leave Neil alone, we wouldn't have won the CL in 05 without him!!

daithijjj

Crash Bang Wall wrote: »

From what I could gather reading on that, the reasons behind it is more to do with not paying taxes & owing other clubs money etc, rather than overspendin like City & Chelsea

Its a simple 'no dessert until you finish your vegetables' move. No bearing whatsoever in the grand scheme of things only to let those affected by non payment get their house in order also.

retalivity

The Grauniad's less-than-flattering review of the first episode of "Being Liverpool"

NukaCola

retalivity wrote: »

The Grauniad's less-than-flattering review of the first episode of "Being Liverpool"

From the comments at the bottom of the article

"I hope we can vote people off"

Gave me a chuckle