Do you think it's selfish to have more than 2 children?

Brussels Sprout

Edit: Can you please read the full post before voting/commenting especially if you think that people should be able to have as much children as they can so long as they can financially afford it.


I personally believe that it is selfish to have more than two biological children. If we look at the crises looming on the horizon for the world pretty much all of them can be traced back to over-population:

• Food shortages
• Energy depletion
• Pollution
• Global Warming
• Species extinction
• Territorial/Energy wars
• Lethal pandemics
• deforestation and desertification

To put it bluntly, there are too many people on this planet already and not enough resources. The world population reached 7 billion recently. In 1974, just half a life-time ago, it was 4 billion.

The only way to reduce this number is for people to have less children. If a couple have 2 children between them, then they will have replaced themselves. If however, they have, for example, 4 children, they have increased the total number of humans by 2. That's 2 extra people who need a lifetime's supply of food, drinking water, living area and energy.

As the numbers of people pile up the quality of life on this planet is going to drop for everyone. This is true even in a relatively low population density country like Ireland. Our lifestyle is based on a large supply of energy and resources which are diverted from other countries.

I realise that this may be a controversial opinion. This thread came about as a result of an argument I had with a friend of mine, who happens to be a student midwife. Needless to say she was horrified by my point of view.

It's a complex and emotive topic and a lot of questions are thrown up. I'll try and go through some of the ones I can imagine:

Q. Well, I can kinda see your point but I want to have a big family anyway.
A. Why not have two of your own and adopt and foster some more?

Q. How about all those people in Asia and Africa having 8 children. They're the ones who need to be responsible not us!
A. Family size is coming down across the developing world with the rise in education and contraception. In the developed world we have to lead by example since we really do have the luxury of choosing (with our social security and healthcare net). We also consume far more resources per capita than the average person from the developed world so it's not as lopsided as it first appears.

Q This doesn't apply to me, I've earned enough money so that I can support a large family of my own.
A The number of resources on the planet is fixed. If you are wealthy and can afford more that just means that you're going to be taking someone else's share.

Q Surely we can continue at our present growth rates so long as we cut down our carbon footprints and grow sustainability.
A When it comes to human population, the only sustainable growth is zero growth.

johnmcdnl

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fUspLVStPbk

Praetorian Saighdiuir

Go China!!!!!

starbelgrade

Why do I feel like I'm doing my Leaving Cert again?

SocSocPol

Checks popcorn supply, gets a comforable chair , sits and waits for the show to begin.:D

mikemac1

1841
Ireland (32 counties) over 8 million
Great Britain 14 million


Today you're looking at what, 6.4 million and 64 million around ish


Take your thread to the Brits OP, overpopulation is not our problem

Scanlas The 2nd

Brussels Sprout wrote: »

I personally believe that it is selfish to have more than two biological children. If we look at the crises looming on the horizon for the world pretty much all of them can be traced back to over-population:

• Food shortages
• Energy depletion
• Pollution
• Global Warming
• Species extinction
• Territorial/Energy wars
• Lethal pandemics
• deforestation and desertification

To put it bluntly, there are too many people on this planet already and not enough resources. The world population reached 7 billion recently. In 1974, just half a life-time ago, it was 4 billion.

The only way to reduce this number is for people to have less children. If a couple have 2 children between them, then they will have replaced themselves. If however, they have, for example, 4 children, they have increased the total number of humans by 2. That's 2 extra people who need a lifetime's supply of food, drinking water, living area and energy.

As the numbers of people pile up the quality of life on this planet is going to drop for everyone. This is true even in a relatively low population density country like Ireland. Our lifestyle is based on a large supply of energy and resources which are diverted from other countries.

I realise that this may be a controversial opinion. This thread came about as a result of an argument I had with a friend of mine, who happens to be a student midwife. Needless to say she was horrified by my point of view.

It's a complex and emotive topic and a lot of questions are thrown up. I'll try and go through some of the ones I can imagine:

Q. Well, I can kinda see your point but I want to have a big family anyway.
A. Why not have two of your own and adopt and foster some more?

Q. How about all those people in Asia and Africa having 8 children. They're the ones who need to be responsible not us!
A. Family size is coming down across the developing world with the rise in education and contraception. In the developed world we have to lead by example since we really do have the luxury of choosing (with our social security and healthcare net). We also consume far more resources per capita than the average person from the developed world so it's not as lopsided as it first appears.

Q This doesn't apply to me, I've earned enough money so that I can support a large family of my own.
A The number of resources on the planet is fixed. If you are wealthy and can afford more that just means that you're going to be taking someone else's share.

Q Surely we can continue at our present growth rates so long as we cut down our carbon footprints and grow sustainability.
A When it comes to human population, the only sustainable growth is zero growth.

The number of resources may be fixed but our efficiency and technological capabilities aren't. These are the primary drivers of economic growth.

Chucken

starbelgrade wrote: »

Why do I feel like I'm doing my Leaving Cert again?

What do you mean "again"?

Ronin247

I think its selfish to have children if you cannot support them.If you can house, feed, clothe and educate your own then its not selfish but if you are relying on the rest of us to pay for your offspring then you are selfish.

kippy

Isnt the world ending in December?

Praetorian Saighdiuir

Recent research has shown that empirical evidence for globalization of corporate innovation is very limited and as a corollary the market for technologies is shrinking.

As a world leader, it's important for America to provide systematic research grants for our scientists. I believe strongly there will always be a need for us to have a well-articulated innovation policy with emphasis on human resource development. Thank you.

seantorious

People always go on about leaving a better planet for our children, how about leaving better children for our planet. And by better I mean less.

Augmerson

No OP, I often 3 or 4. My sexual appetite knows no bounds.





I know I'll be banned for this, but sure **** it, I did it for teh lulz.

4zn76tysfajdxp

Chucken wrote: »

What do you mean "again"?

Presumably because he's done it before.

False Prophet

Most of Ireland is massively under populated due to the english so its selfish not to have children otherwise who will pay for my pension;)

candy-gal1

If youve got your own means to look after them then have as many as you can afford to yourself, its only a problem when people either have kids out of boredom, pressured into it etc, or when people just see it as an easy way of getting lots and lots of Social Welfare for them till each one is 18 then just have another :rolleyes:
If youve got the means, job, savings etc, and you REALLY truly want to have more and youll care for them properly then i see no harm tbh.

Gandhi

PJ O'Rourke summed up most people's attitude to overpopulation pretty well: "Just enough of me, way too much of you"

The Big Red Button

Two is quite a random and abritrary number ...

murf313

biological children as opposed to artificial ones???

RossyG

False Prophet wrote: »

Most of Ireland is massively under populated due to the english so its selfish not to have children otherwise who will pay for my pension;)

It's not the English that mucked up the economy and sent everyone overseas to make a living.

Gary The Gamer

mikemac1 wrote: »

1841
Ireland (32 counties) over 8 million
Great Britain 14 million


Today you're looking at what, 6.4 million and 64 million around ish


Take your thread to the Brits OP, overpopulation is not our problem

They got their comeuppance. They've had their communities taken over by asians and blacks. Enjoy your empire.

Fluorescence

It's a myth that the earth is overpopulated. There are enough resources to support 3 times the current population. The issue is with uneven distribution

Neodymium

"The Most Important Video You Will Ever See"

Watch it, you will never think the same again.

Two is quite a random and abritrary number ...

No it is not, it is the most logical number of children to have to prevent overpopulation.

robp

False Prophet wrote: »

Most of Ireland is massively under populated due to the english so its selfish not to have children otherwise who will pay for my pension;)

I am happy enough with the amount of city and urban sprawl in Ireland. There is a denser spread of people here than a whole lot of very nice countries.

In one sense I would like a less crowded world but if you look at the few countries out there with population decline they all seem to have awful economies. I don't know if its possible to shrink a nation's population without hindering the economy.

phasers

but what if your forth child is destined to cure cancer or kill Hitler II or something?

RossyG

Gary The Gamer wrote: »

They got their comeuppance. They've had their communities taken over by asians and blacks. Enjoy your empire.

You make it sound like immigration's a bad thing. It brings new ideas, new blood, and tends to reinvigorate things.

Gary The Gamer

RossyG wrote: »

You make it sound like immigration's a bad thing. It brings new ideas, new blood, and tends to reinvigorate things.

True enough but there are winners and losers. The english family that finds themselves on the margins in Bradford might have a different opinion.

RossyG

Yes, there's always a bad side.

keith16

mikemac1 wrote: »

1841
Ireland (32 counties) over 8 million
Great Britain 14 million


Today you're looking at what, 6.4 million and 64 million around ish


Take your thread to the Brits OP, overpopulation is not our problem

Au contraire OP, overpopulation affects us very much indeed, what with more demand on resources pushing up the price of oil and food and the impact this has on the climate.

Think about THAT next time 50 quids worth of petrol dribbles into your tank and gets you as far as....somewhere close to the petrol station.

anncoates

phasers wrote: »

but what if your forth child is destined to cure cancer or kill Hitler II or something?

Don't worry, he's already dead.

keepkeyyellow

Right because these are exactly the kind of thoughts that parents are going through parents minds when they decide to have children.

Bit of a doomsday vibe I think...