Final Build Check Please

pcadvice

Hi guys, i decided to wait for the 660ti to come out and see if prices changed. due to amd dropping prices ive decided to stay away from nvidia, how does this look? i know its missing an aftermarket cooler but i dont know which one to get, i have windows 7.

Item|Price
ASRock Z77 Extreme4, Sockel 1155, ATX|€133.34
Intel Core i5-3570K Box, LGA1155|€216.29
8GB-Kit Corsair Vengeance Low Profile schwarz PC3-12800U CL9|€40.94
BitFenix Shinobi Midi-Tower USB 3.0 black, ohne Netzteil|€52.49
Super-Flower Amazon 80Plus 650W|€71.16
Samsung SSD 830 128GB SATA 6GB's Paper Box|€99.74
Seagate Barracuda 7200 2000GB, SATA 6Gb/s|€96.67
Samsung SH-222BB schwarz|€16.59
Sapphire Radeon HD 7950 OC 950M, 3GB GDDR5, full retail|€308.67
Shipping|€18.99
Total|€1054.88

spix

Planning on adding another gpu in the future? If not you could get a cheaper power supply and have less cables to manage. 650 is too much for a single gpu.

pcadvice

spix wrote: »

Planning on adding another gpu in the future? If not you could get a cheaper power supply and have less cables to manage. 650 is too much for a single gpu.

the reason behind the extreme 4 and that psu was to give the option of adding another gpu, is it stupid to do that if i might never add another gpu?
do i need to pm you that list btw for that discount you were talking about or can you take the list from here?

spix

You don't need an extreme4 to do crossfire btw, some cheaper boards will do it. You need it for SLI though.

Yeah if that's the stuff you want I'll get the discounted links for you in a few min.. let me know if your changing anything

Monotype

Z77A-G45 looks to be a cheaper and possibly slightly better board.

http://www1.hardwareversand.de/articledetail.jsp?aid=57133

There's also a GD55 for the same price as the Asrock.

pcadvice

Monotype wrote: »

Z77A-G45 looks to be a cheaper and possibly slightly better board.

http://www1.hardwareversand.de/articledetail.jsp?aid=57133

There's also a GD55 for the same price as the Asrock.

thanks Monotype, what is the difference between these boards? i dont know enough about pc's to know what im looking at really

ShadowHearth

spix wrote: »

You don't need an extreme4 to do crossfire btw, some cheaper boards will do it. You need it for SLI though.

Yeah if that's the stuff you want I'll get the discounted links for you in a few min.. let me know if your changing anything

I was looking in to that and a lot of cheaper boards won't do proper CF as second pcie is 4x. That's the case with cheaper pro3 and pro4.

Mono, I haven't seen the Msi one, what better would it do? I use Msi z68 g45 myself. Would extreme4 be better overclocked then pro3 or pro4 or Msi z77 g45?

Monotype

Most average boards that can change voltage have much the same results when overclocking as the reliance is more on the CPU that the motherboard with multiplier overclocking. You'd have to investigate reviews to be really sure.

Here's a tom's hardware review:
Both do extremely well with overclocks @ 4.6-4.7GHz with 3770K.
http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/z77-express-ivy-bridge-benchmark,review-32489-34.html


Here's the product pages.
http://www.msi.com/product/mb/Z77A-G45.html
http://www.asrock.com/mb/Intel/Z77%20Extreme4/

The MSI doesn't have any PCI slots but it does have an extra PCI-E slot. The first two also appear to be PCI-E 3 x16 & x16 in comparison to x8 x8 -- not that this will make any difference with cards even in the near future. The MSI has a extra audio connectors at the back.
Not much difference - aside from the €20 additional price tag, unless MSI has left something important out that I'm missing.

ShadowHearth

+1 on Msi then too. I didn't see it in a list. 20eu cheaper and pretty much same stuff.
I got msi z68 and I can't complain too.

Monotype

Just don't get the G43. That's rubbish.

ShadowHearth

Monotype wrote: »

Just don't get the G43. That's rubbish.

Heard that too.

Tea_Bag

I'd be a little weary of the g45. the last gen one had crippled OC capabilities. can't find any reviews of it yet.

I'd probably change to the g.skill RAM:

www1.hardwareversand.de/1600+Low+Voltage/44314/8GB-Kit+G-Skill+RipJaws+PC3-12800U+CL9.article

though it doesn't really matter and I do own both sets and am happy with them. Corsair just isn't a great overclocker in my experience.

what's your budget for a CPU cooler?

Tea_Bag

duh that's what happens when I don't post my comment till an hour after I write it and miss all the updates.

I was thinking of the g43 too so my motherboard comment is irrelevant.

go with MSI by the looks of it.

pcadvice

Monotype wrote: »

Z77A-G45 looks to be a cheaper and possibly slightly better board.

http://www1.hardwareversand.de/articledetail.jsp?aid=57133

There's also a GD55 for the same price as the Asrock.

so get the Z77A-G45 http://www1.hardwareversand.de/articledetail.jsp?aid=57133 yee reckon instead of the extreme 4?

Monotype

Yep, seems like a good deal - you have the possibility of crossfire and all the main stuff that you get with the extreme 4.

pcadvice

Monotype wrote: »

Most average boards that can change voltage have much the same results when overclocking as the reliance is more on the CPU that the motherboard with multiplier overclocking. You'd have to investigate reviews to be really sure.

Here's a tom's hardware review:
Both do extremely well with overclocks @ 4.6-4.7GHz with 3770K.
http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/z77-express-ivy-bridge-benchmark,review-32489-34.html


Here's the product pages.
http://www.msi.com/product/mb/Z77A-G45.html
http://www.asrock.com/mb/Intel/Z77%20Extreme4/

The MSI doesn't have any PCI slots but it does have an extra PCI-E slot. The first two also appear to be PCI-E 3 x16 & x16 in comparison to x8 x8 -- not that this will make any difference with cards even in the near future. The MSI has a extra audio connectors at the back.
Not much difference - aside from the €20 additional price tag, unless MSI has left something important out that I'm missing.

sorry but my knowledge of the subject is very limited, what excatly does this mean?

Monotype

First point - the G45 overclocks well.

Second point - some motherboards despite having two slots for graphics cards, the second slot is restricted to lower speed limits and performance can suffer slightly.
A bit like if your car can do 130kmph but the motorway is 120kmph.
This can happen if the second slot is PCI-E version2 x4. (x4 designating 4 lanes or a certain amount of bandwidth).

This is not the case with either the extreme4 or the G45. The extreme4 has PCI-E version 3 x8 slots.
PCI-E version 3 doubles the bandwidth of PCI-E version 2.
Secondly, x8 is double the bandwidth over x4.
So it's like driving your 130kmph car on a 480kmph speed limit.

The G45 has two PCI-E version 3 x16 slots so it's double again. Your motorway now has a 960kmph limit.

So you can see a 480kmph or 980kmph limit won't make any difference to a car that can only go as fast as 130kmph. Similarly, the G45 has more bandwidth for the cards, you won't see any difference in performance until well into the future when the cards are faster.
It is neither an issue for extreme4 nor the G45, but it is with cheaper boards.

There's only one significant feature that I see is missing from the G45 and that's the Lucid chip which allows you to use integrated graphics and dedicated cards at the same time. Its use is limited but it allows you to connect to the motherboard's graphics ports instead of the graphics card's ones (not much of a useful feature) and you can use the Intel graphics for faster video encoding (good if you do need it).

pcadvice

ok thanks for explaining m8, what cooler would you recommend?

spix

Monotype wrote: »

First point - the G45 overclocks well.

Second point - some motherboards despite having two slots for graphics cards, the second slot is restricted to lower speed limits and performance can suffer slightly.
A bit like if your car can do 130kmph but the motorway is 120kmph.
This can happen if the second slot is PCI-E version2 x4. (x4 designating 4 lanes or a certain amount of bandwidth).

This is not the case with either the extreme4 or the G45. The extreme4 has PCI-E version 3 x8 slots.
PCI-E version 3 doubles the bandwidth of PCI-E version 2.
Secondly, x8 is double the bandwidth over x4.
So it's like driving your 130kmph car on a 480kmph speed limit.

The G45 has two PCI-E version 3 x16 slots so it's double again. Your motorway now has a 960kmph limit.

So you can see a 480kmph or 980kmph limit won't make any difference to a car that can only go as fast as 130kmph. Similarly, the G45 has more bandwidth for the cards, you won't see any difference in performance until well into the future when the cards are faster.
It is neither an issue for extreme4 nor the G45, but it is with cheaper boards.

There's only one significant feature that I see is missing from the G45 and that's the Lucid chip which allows you to use integrated graphics and dedicated cards at the same time. Its use is limited but it allows you to connect to the motherboard's graphics ports instead of the graphics card's ones (not much of a useful feature) and you can use the Intel graphics for faster video encoding (good if you do need it).

I'm pretty sure when using 2 cards with the MSI the slots will either drop to 8x and 8x or 16x and 4x (the latter being worse). It has the 2 16x slots, but only when used independently, same with the asrock. Some motherboards mention this on spec, some don't. Motherboards which support SLI are usually 8x and 8x, crossfire only boards are 16x and 4x

pcadvice

Tea_Bag wrote: »

I'd be a little weary of the g45. the last gen one had crippled OC capabilities. can't find any reviews of it yet.

I'd probably change to the g.skill RAM:

www1.hardwareversand.de/1600+Low+Voltage/44314/8GB-Kit+G-Skill+RipJaws+PC3-12800U+CL9.article

though it doesn't really matter and I do own both sets and am happy with them. Corsair just isn't a great overclocker in my experience.

what's your budget for a CPU cooler?

i suppose a decent cooler at value for money really

pcadvice

spix wrote: »

I'm pretty sure when using 2 cards with the MSI the slots will either drop to 8x and 8x or 16x and 4x (the latter being worse). It has the 2 16x slots, but only when used independently, same with the asrock. Some motherboards mention this on spec, some don't. Motherboards which support SLI are usually 8x and 8x, crossfire only boards are 16x and 4x

are you saying that the MSI is not as good as it looks?

spix

pcadvice wrote: »

are you saying that the MSI is not as good as it looks?

They're both similar boards but the asrock seems to be considered better (don't ask me why though)

Monotype

I suppose they're not crystal clear about that and it's more likely that it's x8 x8 when using it simultaneously given that you don't see any better than that unless you're handing out a lot of money, which would put it on even footing with the asrock.

Even in the case where the second slot is x4, you'd still have above sufficient bandwidth so it's still not an issue and makes little difference to the decision.

pcadvice

i asked earlier but nobody has given their opinion on it, am i being stupid to give myself the option of 2 cards in the future even though i might never use it or would i be stupid to not have the option?

spix

The MSI Z77A-GD55 seems to be the equivalent of the asrock extreme4.

On the msi site, the gd55 is listed as supporting SLI whereas the g45 it says N/A. However SLI is printed on it and from googling a bit SLI looks like it is supported (just not officially) So yeah, the g45 its probably 8/8 not 16/4.

The pcb on the gd55 and asrock look busier than the g45 so they probably have alot of extra features, but ones you probably won't use. One difference I noticed though is that the asrock and gd55 have power/reset buttons on the motherboard.

spix

Well its up to you... do you think you will ever add another card? :P

pcadvice wrote: »

i asked earlier but nobody has given their opinion on it, am i being stupid to give myself the option of 2 cards in the future even though i might never use it or would i be stupid to not have the option?

pcadvice

spix wrote: »

Well its up to you... do you think you will ever add another card? :P

i cant predict the future:p

U_Fig

pcadvice wrote: »

i asked earlier but nobody has given their opinion on it, am i being stupid to give myself the option of 2 cards in the future even though i might never use it or would i be stupid to not have the option?

The option of 2 cards offers 2 things ; more monitor support and the ability in a few years to by a second hand gpu Add it to the build in Sli to increase performance.. Its good to have the option but you'll nearly always get better performance from a single newer card than buy and old card and Sli..

ShadowHearth

U_Fig wrote: »

The option of 2 cards offers 2 things ; more monitor support and the ability in a few years to by a second hand gpu Add it to the build in Sli to increase performance.. Its good to have the option but you'll nearly always get better performance from a single newer card than buy and old card and Sli..

Not really. 2xcards almost always faster then new gen single card.

I had gtx570, but I sold it and bought gtx680. If I would have kept 570 and buy one more 570, then I would have gotten way more horse power then single 680 for 3 times cheaper.
Sli is an option. Specially this gen, which takes care off VRAM problem and totally over kills it. I would see having CF support when going 7950 to be very very handy. Later on you will be able to pick 7950 for 150-200eu second hand and 2x7950 is just stupidly powerful.

Ofc there will be a lot of moaners, who will say CF is a devils minion!!!! Though support for sli/cf getting a lot better. I would not have recommended dual gpu setup 5 years ago though.

U_Fig

ShadowHearth wrote: »

U_Fig wrote: »

The option of 2 cards offers 2 things ; more monitor support and the ability in a few years to by a second hand gpu Add it to the build in Sli to increase performance.. Its good to have the option but you'll nearly always get better performance from a single newer card than buy and old card and Sli..

Not really. 2xcards almost always faster then new gen single card.

I had gtx570, but I sold it and bought gtx680. If I would have kept 570 and buy one more 570, then I would have gotten way more horse power then single 680 for 3 times cheaper.
Sli is an option. Specially this gen, which takes care off VRAM problem and totally over kills it. I would see having CF support when going 7950 to be very very handy. Later on you will be able to pick 7950 for 150-200eu second hand and 2x7950 is just stupidly powerful.

Ofc there will be a lot of moaners, who will say CF is a devils minion!!!! Though support for sli/cf getting a lot better. I would not have recommended dual gpu setup 5 years ago though.

Well it obviously depends on the card you have if you have a good last generation card then ya it'll prob be more powerful in Sli/CF like 2x570 vs 670 i think i'm underestimating how often people upgrade their GPUs. There are still benifits from a single card tho, less heat, lower power consumption

ShadowHearth

U_Fig wrote: »

Well it obviously depends on the card you have if you have a good last generation card then ya it'll prob be more powerful in Sli/CF like 2x570 vs 670 i think i'm underestimating how often people upgrade their GPUs. There are still benifits from a single card tho, less heat, lower power consumption

In this built we are talking about 7950 and it's future. It has 3gb VRAM already, so it is future proof for when VRAM will get more important. VRAM limitation was the reason I had to dump 570x2 idea.
So after some time 7950 will still be a solid gpu, but getting second hand one more will just make it a new system again.

Yes, there are drawbacks, but nothing that you could not live with.
We are talking here about mobo price difference of 20eu. For the sake of 20eu I would just get Msi gd45 and have an option in the near future to go CF. even if you won't go CF 20eu is hardly a bank breaking spending.

Monotype

Most of the time when people plan to have two cards, they leave it 3 or 4 years and end up just buying a single card then. It's more often the case when you buy high end cards and don't feel any push to upgrade if nothing is limiting you.

I think it's a worthwhile option to have. If you want a more luxurious motherboard to back you up, you could go for the GD55, but if you're unsure, the G45 is not much difference in price from your basic Z77. Well, there's the PSU as well.

Think about it this way pcadvice-
If you plan to add a second card inside two years, you'll be more likely to use crossfire.
If you think it'll be longer (3, 4...), you'll probably end up swapping in a new card.

What kind of monitor is this powering? Plans for upgrading that or adding multiples?

pcadvice

Monotype wrote: »

Most of the time when people plan to have two cards, they leave it 3 or 4 years and end up just buying a single card then. It's more often the case when you buy high end cards and don't feel any push to upgrade if nothing is limiting you.

I think it's a worthwhile option to have. If you want a more luxurious motherboard to back you up, you could go for the GD55, but if you're unsure, the G45 is not much difference in price from your basic Z77. Well, there's the PSU as well.

Think about it this way pcadvice-
If you plan to add a second card inside two years, you'll be more likely to use crossfire.
If you think it'll be longer (3, 4...), you'll probably end up swapping in a new card.

What kind of monitor is this powering? Plans for upgrading that or adding multiples?

providing all goes well i wont be upgrading gpu inside 2 years, samsung 24" bx2431 1080p full hd 1920 x 1080. for a cooler i saw the thermalight hr-02 macho being recommeneded but thats not available it seems or atleast i cant find it, what would you go for?

Monotype

The mugen 3's a good cooler. Hard enough to install but people say that the macho is even harder.
http://lb.hardwareversand.de/Intel+AMD/49134/Scythe+Mugen+3%2C+für+alle+Sockel+geeignet.article

If you want to make your life a bit easier, you could get the freezer 13 CO.
http://lb.hardwareversand.de/Intel+AMD/49256/ARCTIC+COOLING+Freezer+13+CO(Sockel+775+1155+1156+1366+754+939+AM2+AM2+%2B+AM3+AM3%2B+FM1).article

If it's just the one monitor that you're sticking with then I see a 7950 lasting a long time. I don't think that there's anything close that'll really challenge that at your resolution. I don't think we're expecting anything that'll make unholy demands on a system although I think they're ramping things up in Crysis 3 in comparison to Crysis 2.

pcadvice

ok thanks m8, i saw your comment on another post re WD having longer warranty for hdd. the only 1 i could find is out of stock

Monotype

Is it a 2TB green drive that you're after?
http://lb.hardwareversand.de/7200+RPM/46255/WD+Caviar+Green+2TB+Sata+6Gb+s.article

pcadvice

i was looking at WD Caviar Blue 1TB but for the sake of a few euro 2TB was suggested and the 1 in my list was what we found, thats a green you linked though

Monotype

WD don't sell 2TB blue drives. Not now, at least.

pcadvice

oh right so the green is an older model? that gpu is out of stock now aswell i noticed earlier

Monotype

WD's colour codes:
-Green for energy efficiency, lower RPM, less noise, slightly slower
-Blue is mainstream desktop
-Black are the high end desktop, five year warranty
-Red are similar to green, built for NAS, 3 year warranty and slightly faster + more efficient than green.

In reality, green aren't that much more efficient, nor are they that slow as they will beat older drives. I'd still want a Blue drive as a boot one at least except that you already have an SSD, so speed doesn't matter as much. That Seagate that you linked in the first post looks like the most recent Seagate series, 7200.14, so it should be a fair bit faster than the WD green.

pcadvice

ok so i will stick with the listed hdd i guess, is the seagate i listed the equivalent of WD blue? what 7950 would you recommend? the 1 in the list is not available

spix

I'd go for this

http://lb.hardwareversand.de/articledetail.jsp?aid=55042&agid=1942&pvid=119awm623m_h6yztl5p&ref=105

293 regular price

pcadvice

spix wrote: »

I'd go for this

http://lb.hardwareversand.de/articledetail.jsp?aid=55042&agid=1942&pvid=119awm623m_h6yztl5p&ref=105

293 regular price

is this the Gigabyte Windforce HD7950?

spix

pcadvice wrote: »

is this the Gigabyte Windforce HD7950?

yep

pcadvice

cherryghost wrote: »

Spend over €500 on our beloved hardwareversand and get €10 off with the code below.

VME87RV166


Also, new customers can use VHRUH92NV3 to get €5 off €100 euro or more purchases. Or AXF98H4XV8, for €5 off €50 euro or more. Again, new customers only.

are these still valid? i entered them and it did add them

spix

pcadvice wrote: »

are these still valid? i entered them and it did add them

The one for 10e off over 500 worked for me 2 days ago when I tried it.

pcadvice

Item|Price
MSI Z77A-G45, Intel Z77, ATX, DDR3|€105.71
Intel Core i5-3570K Box, LGA1155|€207.72
8GB-Kit Corsair Vengeance Low Profile schwarz PC3-12800U CL9|€37.37
BitFenix Shinobi Midi-Tower USB 3.0 black, ohne Netzteil|€50.14
Super-Flower Amazon 80Plus 650W|€68.06
Samsung SSD 830 128GB SATA 6GB's Paper Box|€94.86
Seagate Barracuda 7200 2000GB, SATA 6Gb/s|€89.26
Samsung SH-222BB schwarz|€15.05
Scythe Mugen 3, für alle Sockel geeignet|€33.89
Gigabyte Radeon HD 7950, 3GB GDDR5, PCI-Express|€279.38
Shipping|€18.99
Total|€1000.43

thanks to those that helped me with this, i finally hit the order button today on this reworked build i entered those 3 codes from the bargain alerts discussion thread and managed to get an extra €20 in total off 1 x 10 & 2 x 5

spix

gonna be a nice system was the psu out of stock when you ordered or did you snag the last one? :P

pcadvice

spix wrote: »

gonna be a nice system was the psu out of stock when you ordered or did you snag the last one? :P

it was in stock when i ordered it was green, i was going to do a post asking if that meant i got it or not

pcadvice

Item|Price
Sapphire Radeon HD 7950 OC 950M, 3GB GDDR5, full retail|€307.22
Shipping|€18.99
Total|€326.21

is back in stock should i look to get this card instead?

edit: i just checked after doing this post and noticed the gigabyte has gone from being available on the 14th to 18th

Eboggles

pcadvice wrote: »

Item|Price
Sapphire Radeon HD 7950 OC 950M, 3GB GDDR5, full retail|€307.22
Shipping|€18.99
Total|€326.21

is back in stock should i look to get this card instead?

If you're going to overclock, yeah.