The least important part of this thread is the Title

TRR

Good race yesterday, definitely a few more seconds to come off those times as the summer goes on

Oregano_State wrote: »

I have to be content with yesterday's times because they show that I've gotten back some degree of speed/fitness, but because I've been in better shape in the past, I won't feel like I'm doing myself justice until I'm setting PBs.

Ha ha typical runner we only compare our current times against our PBs. Put it this way, what times where you running this time last year? Incidentally what is your 800 PB

Krusty_Clown

Oregano_State wrote: »

Thanks man, I appreciate that considering how well you've being going lately!

I can run pretty far at a brisk pace. You can run shorter distances at a breathtaking pace. Horses for courses! I ran 2:19 in my one and only ever 800m last year. Hope to have a pop at it this year and take some seconds off of it, but wouldn't dream of hitting 2:08 (not that I won't foolishly try!). Well done again. Really impressive stuff.

dna_leri

Oregano_State wrote: »

I was actually happier with the 800m, went through in 61s after a 27s opening 200m (which felt ok, surprisingly), and was still going smoothly until 600m, when I tried to make a move but my legs wouldn't listen.

Goals for next 100m and 800m: 12.2x, and 2:05.xx

.

OS,

That was a blistering opening 200 and even if you felt ok at the time, you probably paid for it later, especially as your focus has been 400 recently. With a 30s start, you probably would do the 2:05 now.

Oregano_State

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

I can run pretty far at a brisk pace. You can run shorter distances at a breathtaking pace. Horses for courses! I ran 2:19 in my one and only ever 800m last year. Hope to have a pop at it this year and take some seconds off of it, but wouldn't dream of hitting 2:08 (not that I won't foolishly try!). Well done again. Really impressive stuff.

You're far too kind. I think I was about 18th out of the forty or so runners that did the 800m last night. For a runner my age, who concentrates on the shorter stuff, 2:08 isn't a whole lot to boast about. I've consistently been doing reps of 150-300m at paces of 55s per 400m or faster in training, so a 61s first lap didn't feel crazy quick. However, the way I faded over the second lap showed that my speed endurance isn't up to scratch, so I will look to address this over the coming weeks.

With the way you've applied yourself to training, there is no reason why you couldn't succeed at the shorter distances if you put your mind to it. If you did, I guarantee you'd soon realise that at the moment anyway, I'm no great shakes!

Horses for courses, I agree.

Oregano_State

TRR wrote: »

Good race yesterday, definitely a few more seconds to come off those times as the summer goes on



Ha ha typical runner we only compare our current times against our PBs. Put it this way, what times where you running this time last year? Incidentally what is your 800 PB

Thanks, good to meet you yesterday. Hopefully you're right about the times!


Yes, it's very difficult not to compare what I'm doing now, to where I was at 18/19 with 4-5 years of semi-consistent training behind me. I read that piece by David Gillick that you posted a few months back (this one) and it pretty much says the same thing. Have tot stay focused on what I'm doing now, rather than where I could have been if I hadn't decided to party it up for 2 years .

My PB is 2:03.xx from 2010, off a base of 400m training.

TRR

Oregano_State wrote: »

My PB is 2:03.xx from 2010, off a base of 400m training.

Another question, when you ran that PB in 2010 how many 800s did you run? Did you run that PB in your season opener? Point I'm trying to make is you will progress as the summer goes on and dipping under that PB is a very realistic target.

Oregano_State

TRR wrote: »

Another question, when you ran that PB in 2010 how many 800s did you run? Did you run that PB in your season opener? Point I'm trying to make is you will progress as the summer goes on and dipping under that PB is a very realistic target.

I think I ran three 800m races that season,even though I wasn't training for them. I PB'd in the first two of them, and got tactically destroyed in the last, and most important one.

I'll keep pegging away anyway, the times should come. I've never trained as consistently as I'm doing at the moment, so hopefully the results will start to show at some stage.

Oregano_State

Thursday 2nd May – Accels + Gym
I was running late yesterday evening so had to cut down on my plan a little, but still got most of what I wanted done. I’m aware most readers of the running forum aren’t too interested in reading about the specifics of my weight training, but I am, so I’m going to keep logging it.

Warm Up: 5 mins rowing machine on setting 5 (1 min easy, 1 min hard, alternating). I was doing about 2:15-2:30/500m on the easy sections, and under 1:45/500m for the two hard ones. Did a few leg swings after, and headed outside.

Acceleration work
Kept to the grass on the infield and did 5 x 50-60m accelerations with walk-back recovery. Started off at about 60% effort and took it up from there. Headed back into the gym then.

Hang Clean
20kg x 5
40kg x 5
50kg x 5
60kg x 3, 1, 1

Deadlift
60kg x 5
80kg x 5
[107kg x 5] x 3

Conditioning
Med-Ball Pushups (scap x 5, both-hands on MB x 10, one hand on ball x 5 each side, both hands x 5), ‘Counting’ core exercise, up to 12.
Did two sets of the above, and had to leg it as the stadium was closing.

Not bad overall. Got through week three of my DL progression programme. Going to try some long hills this weekend.

RandyMann

Hey Oregano, good running on Wednesday.. with regard to the 100, I would not be too concerned about it as everyones times seemed a bit slow. I know a few guys who ran it and their times were about .3 to .4 slower than what they can normally do. Probably a headwind...

Oregano_State

RandyMann wrote: »

Hey Oregano, good running on Wednesday.. with regard to the 100, I would not be too concerned about it as everyones times seemed a bit slow. I know a few guys who ran it and their times were about .3 to .4 slower than what they can normally do. Probably a headwind...

Thanks, I didn't notice much of a headwind though! There's plenty of room for me to improve, the winners of my race just pulled away and there was nothing I could do, so I'd like to fix that. I'm going to try and do more block work and stuff like ins and outs.

You improved a load last season over the 100m, didn't you? What do you think was the biggest factor in that, or was it just a combination of everything you were doing in training?

RandyMann

Thanks, the improvement was really down to not knowing how to sprint at the start of the season. I got coached for the whole season which really helped me and with all the specific sprint drills. It started to all come together by the summer/end
I also put a lot of work into my strenth/gym work. I got help with this also from a strength coach who put me on the right track with specific programs.
Did you read my post in your log about deadlifts?

Oregano_State

RandyMann wrote: »

Hey Oregano, I just read your mention of intention to improve your deadlift. I got great results from a pyramid type session. Example below but taylor the weight to suit your level obviously
Week 1 - 8X60kg, 6X80kg, 4X100kg, 4X100kg, 6X80kg, 8X60kg with 120secs recovery between each set.
Week 2 - Reps 7, 5 , 3, 3, 5, 7 and same as above with about 10kg added to each weight
Week 3 - Reps 6, 4, 2, 2, 4, 6 with 10kg added again.

Week 4, go back to the reps of week 1 - 8, 6, 4, 4, 6, 8 but start with 70kg and then 90kg, 110kg and back down and so on.

I got great gains from doing this and I managed to lift 200kg a few weeks ago when I weighed 66kg. The program does take a lot out of you so dont overdo it as the outdoor season is nearly upon us, you need some energy for the track too......

RandyMann wrote: »

Thanks, the improvement was really down to not knowing how to sprint at the start of the season. I got coached for the whole season which really helped me and with all the specific sprint drills. It started to all come together by the summer/end
I also put a lot of work into my strenth/gym work. I got help with this also from a strength coach who put me on the right track with specific programs.
Did you read my post in your log about deadlifts?

I'm going to keep working on my starts and top-end speed for the rest of the outdoor season anyway, hopefully it will pay off!

As regards the deadlifts, the program I'm doing at the moment seems to be going OK, and I'm half way through so I think I'll finish it off. I agree with you, the one you posted looks like a real killer. I might wait until the end of the track season before having a go at it. Thank you for the advice though, always welcome

dna_leri

RandyMann wrote: »

Hey Oregano, good running on Wednesday.. with regard to the 100, I would not be too concerned about it as everyones times seemed a bit slow. I know a few guys who ran it and their times were about .3 to .4 slower than what they can normally do. Probably a headwind...

Am I right in thinking Tallaght is not the fastest track for sprinters, Santry better ?

Oregano_State

dna_leri wrote: »

Am I right in thinking Tallaght is not the fastest track for sprinters, Santry better ?

Santry is a mondo surface, which is harder than tartan and better for sprinters because of this. Tallaght did seem a bit softer than some other tartan tracks I've been on, although I don't know how much that would be worth time-wise over 100m. No more than 0.2s I'd imagine.

Oregano_State

Sunday 5th May – Long Hills
In the two 400m races I’ve done so far this season, I haven’t been happy with how I’ve run in the closing 200m. In the first race in Athlone, the way I faded in the second half of the race had a lot to do with going a bit gung-ho in the opening 200m, but in CIT I didn’t push it as much in the first 200m, yet much the same thing happened. I’ve done a bit of reading on 400m training, and comparing my training to the programs of others, one thing that I noticed was that I haven’t done too much running at race pace for longer than 45s. So, for the next 4 weeks, I’m going to do a long hills session at the weekend to see if I can improve my finish. I’ll reassess then.

The program I’m taking this session out of calls for (ideally) a grassy hill of even gradient in the (10-20 degree range) that takes 50-55s to run up at 90-95% effort. The program says 2x2reps with 2-3min between reps and 8-12mins between sets. The idea is that these are done at close to race effort with an emphasis on quality, so the long recoveries are necessary (as I duly found out!!). Finding such a hill is a tough call in reality, so I had to make the best of what I had. The hill I used was max 200m long, and has a concrete/tarmac surface, but it also has a flat lead-in of another 130m or so. The interval I ran was 320-330m in length, with the first half flat, and the second at about a 20 degree (guess) angle.

My warm up was a 15min jog from my house to the hill, followed by a bit of dynamic stretching and a stride-out or two.

Hills
1: 50s, 3min jog-back recovery
2: 53s, 12mins
3: 50s absolutely buckled, had to call it quits here.

I really think doing a session of these for the next few weeks will stand to me, as they really made bits of me. There was an awful wind that hit me in the face about ten meters into the uphill section which made these even harder than they should have been. The second rep was the worst in that my form completely deserted me over the last 30m or so, and I could barely stand afterwards. I needed the full 12 minutes after that, and during it, I knew that there was no hope of me doing the 4th rep at anything close to the intensity required, so I left it out. I’ll try to build up to adding a 4th rep on the next session, or if not then, the one after.

I had a very easy jog home as my cool-down, for a total of just over 5km.

Monday 6th May – Easy Run
The legs were feeling a bit battered after the hills so I took the opportunity to get out in the sun for some easy running down the Royal Canal to Ashtown and across to the Pheonix Park. Having been used to dealing with arctic weather for the past six months, my body wasn’t used to the sun, and despite the easy pace, I started to overheat. Not having a water bottle, I was forced to whip off the t-shirt and subject more than a few passers-by to the startling image of an ivory-bodied, red-faced, curly-haired, profusely sweating Kerryman, gallumping past them in the middle of their late morning walk down the canal/park. :pac:

My watch couldn’t get a satellite link for some reason, so I don’t have a time, but it was roughly 7km in 30min. I also did a fair bit of stretching/foam rolling when I got home

RandyMann

dna_leri wrote: »

Am I right in thinking Tallaght is not the fastest track for sprinters, Santry better ?

Never sprinted in Tallaght but I did do a BHAA mile race there a couple of years ago and it did seem nice and soft which is nice for middle distance.
Santry is soft compared to Irishtown which is the hardest I have run on and which I prefer...
I ran my 2 fastest 100m in Santry and Tullamore though..

Oregano_State

Tuesday 7th May – Gym
I was wrecked after work and wussed out of training. Pretty annoyed at myself, but I was feeling run down, so maybe it was a good idea.

Wednesday 8th May – Track
I wanted to make up for Tuesday by getting a good session in yesterday evening, so I was a bit annoyed to see the rain lashing down as drove out to Santry. Thankfully the shower was over by the time I got there, but the wind was still very strong and blowing down the home straight. Not ideal, but we made do. The plan was 3x300m off 8mins at 95%

Warm Up: two laps jogging, hip mobility drills over hurdles, plyos, ladder drills, sprinting form drills. I put the spikes on then for a stride out.

Session: I decided with my coach to start at the 400m start and run two bends to avoid the ridiculous wind on the home straight. This meant that I had it at my back on the back straight, but was working against a cross wind on both bends.

Times for the reps were: 39.6s, 40.2s, 41.2s

This was a bit of a landmark for me, as the first rep was my first sub 40s 300m in training since I started training again.:D This is equivalent to a high 52s/low 53s 400m, so it shows I’m improving. Ideally, this season I want to get to the stage where I’m hitting 300m in a race at 38-low, so I still have plenty to work on. The other two reps still felt pretty good, although I faded at the end of both of them as the wind hit me. I’m looking forward to doing the 200m next week at the graded meet in Santry, so hopefully I can get under 25s.

Oregano_State

Thursday 9th May – Gym
I was late arriving to the gym, so the acceleration work I’d planned to do had to be skipped, but I managed to fit in everything else.

Warm Up: 5mins rowing machine (1min easy, 1min hard, alternating) easy pace was 2:20-2:40/500m, hard was sub 1:40/500m.
I did some hip mobility stuff afterwards, followed by a few leg-swings.

Hang Clean
20kg x 5
40kg x 5
50kg x 3
60kg x 3, 2

Deadlift
60kg x 5
80kg x 5
100kg x 3
[113kg x 3] x 3, with 5 reps on last set.

Conditioning
Medicine-Ball (MB) Push Ups (3 variants), MB Toe-Touches, Russian Twists
[PU x 30, TT x 15, RT x 30] x 2

This week has been a bit patchy. The plan is to fit in some speed work, lifting, and long hills over the weekend. Monday’s track session will be high intensity, low volume because I’m racing on Wednesday. Tuesday’s gym session will have to be lighter than normal as well.

RandyMann

Oregano_State wrote: »

This week has been a bit patchy. The plan is to fit in some speed work, lifting, and long hills over the weekend. Monday’s track session will be high intensity, low volume because I’m racing on Wednesday. Tuesday’s gym session will have to be lighter than normal as well.

Hey Oregano, I will race too so I will look out for you in Santry. Good luck with your prep over the weekend...

Oregano_State

Friday 10th May – Easy Run
Just an easy 7km at roughly 5min/km pace. Can’t remember much about the run, apart from the strong winds.

Saturday 11th May – Long Hills Hills Easy Run
The plan here was the same as last week: 2x2x50s+ on the same 320m stretch of hill/flat as last week. I started off with the obligatory 1.5km jog to the hill, went through my warm-up and psyched myself up for what I knew was going to be a tough session. After ten seconds of the first rep I knew the session would not go to plan. The wind was just unbearable. I’d realised it was a bit breezy from the jog over to the hill, but it wasn’t until I tried to sprint against it that I realised how strong it was. I fought against it, not able to get into any kind of rhythm and finished the first one in 56s, a full three seconds slower than my slowest rep last week. There was no point in trying to complete the planned session, so I shortened the interval to about 150m and had another go. It didn’t make much of a difference, so I shortened the interval a second time to 80m or so. I still found it impossible to get into a proper sprinting stride, so I left it at that once I’d finished the third one. I was pretty annoyed and exhausted at that point, but I took the long way home to help make up for it. The total distance was just over 8km.

Sunday 12th May – Starts + Weights
Morton Stadium is only open for three hours on Sundays, so I had to cut my lie-in short. I was expecting the place to be quiet but John Shields’ sprint group was there before me so as usual there weren’t any free lanes on the indoor track. This meant I had to face the wind and drizzle for my block work, but that’s the way it goes I suppose!

Warm Up
5mins bike, 5mins rowing machine (1min easy, 1 min hard, 1min easy, 30sec hard, 1:30 easy) I got down to 1:36/500m pace for the first ‘hard’ section, but that took a fair bit out of me so I just did 30sec and 1:40 pace for the second interval. Then did some hip mobility and dynamic stretching before heading out to the track. I did a good ten minutes of drills before putting the spikes on.

Block Work/Accelerations
2x(20m,30m, 40m) from blocks off 1min/5mins

Back to the gym:

Power Clean
40kg x 5
50kg x 3
60kg x 3
[70kg x 1] x 3

Front Squat
40kg x 5
60kg x 5
[70kg x 5] x 3

Pull Ups
[BW x 5] x 2

Ran out of time yet again, so didn’t fit in the conditioning work. Track session tonight.

Edit: I forgot to add that Brian Gregan and a couple of the other long sprinters in John Shields' group were doing 300m repeats fast, off long breaks. There's a few sub 48s guys in that group but Gregan was giving them a 1 second head start, catching up with them just before the 200m point and pulling away from there. I timed their second one, with Gregan coming in at 34-high :eek:, with the next two looking very slow at 36s and 38s. Amazing speed.

Oregano_State

RandyMann wrote: »

Hey Oregano, I will race too so I will look out for you in Santry. Good luck with your prep over the weekend...

What grade are you going in?

I think I'm going to go with C, as I was a bit off the pace in the B grade 100m last time out.

Best of luck also, hopefully the wind will have died down by Wednesday evening!

RandyMann

Oregano_State wrote: »

What grade are you going in?

I think I'm going to go with C, as I was a bit off the pace in the B grade 100m last time out.

Best of luck also, hopefully the wind will have died down by Wednesday evening!

Think I will go in the B as the fast guys will hopefully make me run faster. I am looking at the forecast now but it doesnt look good. Im thinking though that the wind might be behind coming down the home straight, so that might help...:)

Oregano_State

RandyMann wrote: »

Think I will go in the B as the fast guys will hopefully make me run faster. I am looking at the forecast now but it doesnt look good. Im thinking though that the wind might be behind coming down the home straight, so that might help...:)

I was there tonight and it was blowing a negative gale down the home straight, hopefully that'll change by Wednesday evening!

RandyMann

Oregano_State wrote: »

I was there tonight and it was blowing a negative gale down the home straight, hopefully that'll change by Wednesday evening!

Ah no, not good! Everything will have to be perfect if I am to run a PB..

Oregano_State

Monday 13th May – Track
Irishtown is undergoing repairs to the track at the moment, so I’ll be doing my Monday track sessions at Morton Stadium for the foreseeable future. Yesterday evening was very windy again, and having just checked the forecast, it looks like the weather situation will not have improved by tomorrow evening for the graded. Bálls.

Warm Up: 2 laps, a few leg swings, plyos, form drills and a couple of stride-outs.

Session: 5 x 130m-ish from blocks at the 400m start.

Neither the intervals nor breaks were times, but it was roughly 5 mins between each one. The idea was to practice getting into a racing rhythm, but not do too much volume. We chose the 400m start as the start-point, as that meant the wind was mostly behind us. It didn’t affect my running too much, but it was getting pretty chilly during the breaks so I kept my jacket on for the whole session.

Special mention goes out to Raheny AC who made every effort to hog the whole track.

Oregano_State

Wednesday 15th May – 200m at Graded Meet #2, Santry
I felt pretty tired yesterday when I got to the stadium, I was thinking about sneaking over to the car for a powernap as I started to warm up, but at that stage time was a bit tight so I put thoughts of sleep to the back of my mind. Still, I found it difficult to get into a racing mindset. I had decided last-minute to go in the B grade, after looking at last year’s times. My race plan was to go out at 100% for the first 50m, cruise the rest of the bend, and pick it up again on the straight. I was drawn in lane 8, so I was running blind.

We got away first time, and I thought my start was OK, but not brilliant. One of the guys in the middle lanes came up on me at about 80m with two others following behind. I felt like I held my form pretty well on the home straight, although I don’t think I was relaxed enough. I finished in 4th place, with a time of 24.75s. I said before that I’d be happy with sub 25s, and delighted with sub 24.5s, so halfway between these goals isn’t too bad. I really need to work on my first 10m off the blocks, and my top speed could also do with some work. I’m going to count this as a PB as I’ve never really run 200m before this season, so let’s see where I can take it from here.

RandyMann

Oregano_State wrote: »

Wednesday 15th May – 200m at Graded Meet #2, Santry
I felt pretty tired yesterday when I got to the stadium, I was thinking about sneaking over to the car for a powernap as I started to warm up, but at that stage time was a bit tight so I put thoughts of sleep to the back of my mind. Still, I found it difficult to get into a racing mindset. I had decided last-minute to go in the B grade, after looking at last year’s times. My race plan was to go out at 100% for the first 50m, cruise the rest of the bend, and pick it up again on the straight. I was drawn in lane 8, so I was running blind.

We got away first time, and I thought my start was OK, but not brilliant. One of the guys in the middle lanes came up on me at about 80m with two others following behind. I felt like I held my form pretty well on the home straight, although I don’t think I was relaxed enough. I finished in 4th place, with a time of 24.75s. I said before that I’d be happy with sub 25s, and delighted with sub 24.5s, so halfway between these goals isn’t too bad. I really need to work on my first 10m off the blocks, and my top speed could also do with some work. I’m going to count this as a PB as I’ve never really run 200m before this season, so let’s see where I can take it from here.

Great PB Oregano and to add from my log, yes we are fairly close and to be honest, if you continue with the same progression, you have a good chance of breaking 24 by the end of the season as I came close with 24.08 last August.
The more races and with better weather, it will make a world of difference too.
Check out irishmilersclub.com as there are 100 and 200 races scheduled in Greystones for May 25th. I got an email about it, roughly 2:45pm for the 100 and 3:15pm for the 200m. I just booked my place so might see ya there if you are not travelling home that weekend!

Oregano_State

RandyMann wrote: »

Great PB Oregano and to add from my log, yes we are fairly close and to be honest, if you continue with the same progression, you have a good chance of breaking 24 by the end of the season as I came close with 24.08 last August.
The more races and with better weather, it will make a world of difference too.
Check out irishmilersclub.com as there are 100 and 200 races scheduled in Greystones for May 25th. I got an email about it, roughly 2:45pm for the 100 and 3:15pm for the 200m. I just booked my place so might see ya there if you are not travelling home that weekend!

Thanks for the heads up, but I won't be in Dublin next weekend. Next race is a 400m at graded #3 I think! I'll sign up for the Irish Milers Club though. Yeah I think my aims for the season now are sub 12, sub 24, and sub 52.5 in the 1, 2, and 4 respectively.

I look forward to racing you at some point though!

Oregano_State

Quick update on what I’ve been up to for the past few days:

Thursday 16th May – Gym
Did some strides on the grass after warming up, then back in the gym for deadlifts: 3x3 at 120kg. Followed this with some conditioning stuff.

Friday – Nada

Saturday 18th May – Long Hills
1.5km warm-up, then 2 x 350m, 300m with 4min/16min rest. First 350m in 58s, then 300m in 49s. Second set: 320m in 56s, 300m in 52s. Very tough session. The second rep in each set was very difficult.

Sunday 19th May – Gym
I wanted to do block work, but my legs didn’t feel right after the hills. Front squat was the main exercise: 3x5 at 75kg, good-mornings: 3x10 at 50kg, and conditioning stuff afterwards. Didn’t feel great for this session, despite the great weather.

Oregano_State

Monday 20th May - Track Disaster
The session was 4 x 40m from blocks, then 2 x 400m with 15min break.
During the warm up my legs were feeling a bit heavy, but nothing too out of the ordinary. The 40m reps were fine, although I didn't feel as springy as I would like, I put that down to fatigue more than anything else.

Next up was the first 400m, felt a bit of a tingle in my left hamstring as I was starting off, but it barely registered and I cruised around, coming home in 56.7s

I spent much of my 15min break lying on the track, but did a couple of stretches and a quick stride out just before I was due to go again.

As I started off around the bend, I felt the same niggle in my hammy but it lasted for about three or four strides this time, kept going like a fool and again the feeling went away as I got into my stride, trying to knock out a close to race-pace rhythm. I started tiring about 150m out, so I upped the effort. I was holding it together well, until with 70m to go, WHAM, a sharp pain shot up towards my ass and I knew instantly that I'd done my hamstring. I pulled up pretty quickly and luckily two of the lad I was training with have some physio experience so they gave me some some first aid in the form of stretching, strapping, and deep heat spray.

I was able to walk pain-free straight away, and can only feel pain when I move from certain seated positions, so I don't think it's life-threatening. I've had my trusty bag of frozen peas applied to it for ten minute spells over the past couple of hours, and I'm just about to shower now so I'm praying for no bruising. It's very easy to look back now and say I should have stopped earlier in the session, but it can be hard to know the difference between tired legs and fragile legs sometimes.

Sh1t happens. I'mma deal with it.

Also, for what it's worth, the coach told me I was on for a 55/56 when I pulled up so I know my strength is coming on. I'll take all the positives I can...:)