Bill for fire brigade call out

SwissResidence

I was a passenger in a road accident in Mayo last month while travelling form Dublin. The car was wrote off but thankfully no one was badly injured.
Problem is I woke up this mourning to find a bill from Mayo fire department charging me €2,800 for the use of two fire engines just to note we didn't make the call a nearby family that heard the crash did.
I did use the ambulance service to go to hospital & have no problem paying for that but the fire engines weren't needed & we wouldn't have called them so my question is am I or the driver of the car liable to pay this bill?


Thanks for any reply's

TylerIE

The beneficial user is the person who pays the bill. As for them not being needed in rural Ireland the person who called them was likely planning in advance - Iv often known of incidents where the fire service were not called until the Ambulance service or Gardai arrived - and then they took another 25+minutes to arrive, so outside Dublin its often best to call them if there is any possibility they are needed.

Normally the car insurance of vehicles involved pays for it.

You have no ambulance bill to worry about.

The fire service may have assisted the HSE paramedics in preparing ye for transport to hospital, or for ensuring the ambulance crew could safely work on ye (and that nobody else drove into the crash site), and for clearing the road afterwards.

999nobody

Send the bill to Enda Kenny, he stated that the household charge would pay for "fire and other emergency services".

cdsb46

hence what your car insurance is for, most insurance companies have fire brigade charges on the policies, unless ya went for the cheapest and now ya stuck 2800e bill and more than likely lost your ncb

Merch

just to clear things up,
you were a passenger, was the car or the insurance yours? is the person that owns it related to you, presumably a spouse?

either way
you were in the accident?, were you injured? was it a serious accident edit, ie were you taken away by an ambulance or assisted by them or the fire service in anyway?

whether yes or no
you want some good samaritan to pay for calling the emergencey services to potentially save your life?

Did this bill not go to the car owner? is that you?

I'm not trying to be smart, its just there seems to be some missing information from your post.

999/112

Merch wrote: »

just to clear things up,
you were a passenger, was the car or the insurance yours? is the person that owns it related to you, presumably a spouse?

either way
you were in the accident?, were you injured? was it a serious accident edit, ie were you taken away by an ambulance or assisted by them or the fire service in anyway?

whether yes or no
you want some good samaritan to pay for calling the emergencey services to potentially save your life?

Did this bill not go to the car owner? is that you?

I'm not trying to be smart, its just there seems to be some missing information from your post.

Merch is correct, we need more info!
However, if you are not the registered owner of the vehicle or the policy(insurance) holder I think you should not have been charged.
Also, if you have paid your household charge you should photocopy the receipt of that payment, enclose the photocopy, the bill that you have just received and a nice cover letter explaining that you are not the owner of the vehicle etc.(if that is fact) and also that you have paid your household charge(if that is also the case) thus paying for the "local service" and see what Mayo CC have to say.

I am aware of an incident where there was a 3 car RTC and all owners of the respective vehicles got individual bills for the "actual cost" of the incident from that local authority.
I would imagine they hoped that at least one insurance company would pay out on the bill.
If all three policy's paid out the "actual cost", ..... is this fraud?

Elessar

I was under the impression that the fire brigade and every other emergency service was paid for directly from our taxes? When did local authorities start charging for the use of an emergency service? What next, giving your credit card number before the guards get called out?

God forbid you ever need coast guard helicopter rescue! That'll be 20 grand sir. If you don't pay the fire brigade charge, what can the local authority do? How can they justify it if no other service charges?

999nobody

Elessar wrote: »

I was under the impression that the fire brigade and every other emergency service was paid for directly from our taxes? When did local authorities start charging for the use of an emergency service? What next, giving your credit card number before the guards get called out?

God forbid you ever need coast guard helicopter rescue! That'll be 20 grand sir. If you don't pay the fire brigade charge, what can the local authority do? How can they justify it if no other service charges?

The fire brigade are the only emergency service that charge for their services as they are funded through local government. Gardai, ambulance and coastguard do not charge a fee.

Potential-Monke

999nobody wrote: »

Gardai, ambulance and coastguard do not charge a fee.

I had to pay €150 for an ambulance once. I think they do charge.

TylerIE

Potential-Monke wrote: »

999nobody wrote: »

Gardai, ambulance and coastguard do not charge a fee.

I had to pay €150 for an ambulance once. I think they do charge.

Not at the moment or in the last few years in Ireland has there been a charge for an ambulance that responded to a 999 call.

Your fee may have been for a private ambulance or inter hospital transfer or even an excess of an agency fee. It also could be the A&E charge plus one bed night.

Potential-Monke

TylerIE wrote: »

Not at the moment or in the last few years in Ireland has there been a charge for an ambulance that responded to a 999 call.

Your fee may have been for a private ambulance or inter hospital transfer or even an excess of an agency fee. It also could be the A&E charge plus one bed night.

Fair enough, i thought it was for the ambulance as they collected me from outside a nightclub and brought me to a&e, but they left me waiting 7 hours and what was wrong with me was grand then so i left. Didn't get a bed or get seen by anyone.

Merch

Potential-Monke wrote: »

Fair enough, i thought it was for the ambulance as they collected me from outside a nightclub and brought me to a&e, but they left me waiting 7 hours and what was wrong with me was grand then so i left. Didn't get a bed or get seen by anyone.

The ambulance? collected you, you mean the ambulance arrived and brought you to hospital? and they left you waiting? do you mean at the scene or you were left at the hospital only to wait 7 hours?
You seem to say there was nothing wrong with you but you were not seen, it makes it sound like you left because you were not being seen to?

It reads to me that you were picked up by ambulance, left at hospital, waited 7 hours, weren't seen by anyone, felt ok and decided to leave yourself?
Just trying to clarify that, as if thats the case the ambulance provided the service they were called for, regardless of you having injuries or not, thats more likely to be determined by the hospital, unless you needed immediate medical attention (ie for injury) which it doesnt sound like.

If I was in an accident I think id wait to get checked before I leave hospital.

Potential-Monke

Sorry, should have clarified more. It was a pain across my chest which was making it hard to breathe, doubled over with the pain, nothing i ever experienced before (only had a couple of pints at that stage). The ambulance was called by the manager and i was taken to a&e by them. The nurse at a&e took my details, and a general query as to what was wrong, and put me sitting in the waiting room. Time was passing, with no one coming out to me (there were others with physical injuries which were more serious to me, imo). So, after 7 hours, i left as the pain had subsided. I did tell them i was leaving.

I'm not saying that the ambulance crew didn't do their jobs, they did exactly what they were supposed to and i've the utmost respect for them, deal with the near daily. I was just commenting on that the fire brigade are the only service to charge when i'm 99.9% sure the bill i received a few weeks after my incident was specifically for the ambulance call-out.

My apologies if it came across that i was attacking ambulance crews. I would never do that.

PickledLime

999nobody wrote: »

The fire brigade are the only emergency service that charge for their services as they are funded through local government. Gardai, ambulance and coastguard do not charge a fee.

And we're the saps who fund the local government.

999nobody

Potential-Monke wrote: »

Sorry, should have clarified more. It was a pain across my chest which was making it hard to breathe, doubled over with the pain, nothing i ever experienced before (only had a couple of pints at that stage). The ambulance was called by the manager and i was taken to a&e by them. The nurse at a&e took my details, and a general query as to what was wrong, and put me sitting in the waiting room. Time was passing, with no one coming out to me (there were others with physical injuries which were more serious to me, imo). So, after 7 hours, i left as the pain had subsided. I did tell them i was leaving.

I'm not saying that the ambulance crew didn't do their jobs, they did exactly what they were supposed to and i've the utmost respect for them, deal with the near daily. I was just commenting on that the fire brigade are the only service to charge when i'm 99.9% sure the bill i received a few weeks after my incident was specifically for the ambulance call-out.

My apologies if it came across that i was attacking ambulance crews. I would never do that.

The bill would have been from A&E, they charge you once you register. It makes no difference whether you are seen or not before you leave.

Potential-Monke

That could have been it, so long ago I can't remember exactly but always thought it was for the ambulance. Cheers for clarifying!

paraletic

Potential-Monke wrote: »

That could have been it, so long ago I can't remember exactly but always thought it was for the ambulance. Cheers for clarifying!

Ambulance is defo free,
but I think i remember that some hospitals (blanchardstown was one - I think) used to add an "ambulance" charge if you came in by ambulance although there was not a real charge for emergency ambulances.

majimbo

Because there are over 34 fire authorities in Ireland (Rep of) there are also 34 different work practices and charges throughout the country.

For instance, in some counties there is no charge for road accidents and where there are the rate of charge can be very different. Each car owner involved will most likely receive a bill and his insurance may cough up (bear in mind some policies limit the amount of cover)

If your house insurance is an old policy and you never informed that company you wanted fire charges included then you may well not be covered for fire brigade charges. In general all new policies will have fire charges included but the amount of cover may vary. So if you have a new policy or changed companies then you are surely covered but if your policy predates charges you will NOT be covered.

Bear in mind that most firefighters have some level of medical training and equipment and may be useful at a scene while waiting for an ambulance that may be understaffed or overworked.

I know of many cases where 999 callers have been told there will be a delay in getting an ambulance

msg11

I'm surprised Enda hasn't changed the 999 number to a local call 1850 or 1890 to reduce 'prank calls'. In fairness there is more than likely a EU law to stop this from happening and I say they have though about it.

He is honestly stopping people ringing 999 for the fire service and people are putting there lives on the line either trying to put out fires themselves, delaying ringing them and more people saying there fine to avoid hospital/call out charges.

lennie6998

I am aware of an incident where there was a 3 car RTC and all owners of the respective vehicles got individual bills for the "actual cost" of the incident from that local authority.
I would imagine they hoped that at least one insurance company would pay out on the bill.
If all three policy's paid out the "actual cost", ..... is this fraud?[/QUOTE]

This is incorrect. The fire service do not decide or investigate the cause or person liable for the RTC so the bill would be divided between the parties involved equally and it's up to the insurance companies to sort it out. I.e. if 2 parties were not at fault the liable party would pay the full cost

January

Just on the ambulance charges thing...

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/health/emergency_health_services/ambulance_and_transport_services.html

Rates

Unless you have a medical card, you may be charged for ambulance services. However, the practice varies between parts of the and charges may be waived in certain cases (i.e., hardship), etc.

Private ambulance services are commercial. You telephone them and pay for their services in the normal commercial manner.

gozunda

The OPs post brings up a number of interesting points

Re fire brigade charges - allegedly these are paid by the person using the service But if the billed party neither called nor needed the services after they arrived who is liable

A. The injured parties
B. The person at fault
C. The person who called for the service

This scenario may also relate to ambulance services

As another poster pointed out the Household Charge website indicates that this charge is used to pay for Fire-brigade services. As well as parks, lighting, street cleaning etc

So if this is paying for the fire brigade - why are individuals still being charged?

In rural Ireland most places do not have street lighting etc so the least they can do do is provide a fire service that does not charge commercial rates.

I have came across reports of the individual who phones for an emergency service being billed for same - if this is allowable there is the potential that people will walk away from doing anything at the scene of accidents on the basis that they could end up liable for costs.

Nice country we live in...

touge_drift

January wrote: »

Just on the ambulance charges thing...

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/health/emergency_health_services/ambulance_and_transport_services.html

that paragraph on the citizens information website is very misleading.
privates charge, the hse and dfb in my experence over the past 10 years do not charge for emergency 999 callouts

So Annoyed

If you were a passenger in the car , why did you get the bill? You wernt driving, you wernt responsible for the accident.

Did the driver of the car get it too?

lennie6998

I think the op needs to clarify is she/he the owner of the vehicle as I can't see any other reason for receiving the bill.

There's also no way that the caller of the FB can get invoiced for making a call unless they are the beneficiary of the service, although I'm sure this may have occurred in error in the past but could not be justified.

The op may be able to argue the cost if it is established that the brigade "took no action" at the scene

19hz

TylerIE wrote: »

Not at the moment or in the last few years in Ireland has there been a charge for an ambulance that responded to a 999 call.
Your fee may have been for a private ambulance or inter hospital transfer or even an excess of an agency fee. It also could be the A&E charge plus one bed night.

paraletic wrote: »

Ambulance is defo free,
but I think i remember that some hospitals (blanchardstown was one - I think) used to add an "ambulance" charge if you came in by ambulance although there was not a real charge for emergency ambulances.

Ye having a laugh? Course there is a fee. My best friend had a panic attack and was sent a bill for €120 by the ambulance service, not the a&e, the ambulance service. You don't have to pay it if you have a medical card/socialwelfare

TylerIE

19hz wrote: »

Ye having a laugh? Course there is a fee. My best friend had a panic attack and was sent a bill for €120 by the ambulance service, not the a&e, the ambulance service. You don't have to pay it if you have a medical card/socialwelfare

Your friend got hard done by or was being picked on!!! S/he should seek a refund!!!!

What I said before stands!

paraletic

19hz wrote: »

Ye having a laugh? Course there is a fee. My best friend had a panic attack and was sent a bill for €120 by the ambulance service, not the a&e, the ambulance service. You don't have to pay it if you have a medical card/socialwelfare

I find your friends story hard to believe. Sorry.

The emergency ambulance service is free in Ireland.
Your friend needs to ring his or her regional ambulance control, get the number from the Internet (not on 999). They can confirm that there is no charge. Then, Find out who sent the bill and get a refund.
Or you could ring instead and find out if there is a charge or not.

By the way I'm not trying to have a go at any one. I work for HSE ambulance. I know that there should not be a charge. If people are being charged, it is wrong and the charges aren't coming from the ambulance service.

19hz

I saw the bill myself. Why would they send it for the charge of using an ambulance if the HSE doesn't charge?...I've always heard they charge, never heard any different.

19hz

"There is no clear right to an ambulance service. Generally, ambulances are used when the emergency services are called. For non-emergencies, the use of an ambulance is usually a medical decision. In general, people who do not have medical cards may be charged for the service. The practice varies between the HSE and charges may be waived in certain cases (i.e., hardship), etc."

Citizensinformation.ie"Charges for ambulance services
Unless you have a medical card, you may be charged for using an ambulance service. However, the position varies considerably from region to region. Charges may also be waived in certain cases (i.e., hardship)."


Irishhealth.com

yosemite_sam

That sounds about right, a great number for the part time guys. They get on average €500 a week plus jobseekers allowance and whatever they can for the cash work they do on the side. I know of one crew who were paid €2500 a day to attend a RTA course €5000 for two days work plus your dole is great money for any man.

yosemite_sam

majimbo wrote: »

Because there are over 34 fire authorities in Ireland (Rep of) there are also 34 different work practices and charges throughout the country.

For instance, in some counties there is no charge for road accidents and where there are the rate of charge can be very different. Each car owner involved will most likely receive a bill and his insurance may cough up (bear in mind some policies limit the amount of cover)

If your house insurance is an old policy and you never informed that company you wanted fire charges included then you may well not be covered for fire brigade charges. In general all new policies will have fire charges included but the amount of cover may vary. So if you have a new policy or changed companies then you are surely covered but if your policy predates charges you will NOT be covered.

Bear in mind that most firefighters have some level of medical training and equipment and may be useful at a scene while waiting for an ambulance that may be understaffed or overworked.

I know of many cases where 999 callers have been told there will be a delay in getting an ambulance

You could not make it up, one fire chief for the whole of London and we need individual chiefs for each county. The whole charging accident victims should be knocked with the new household charge. I have seen Fire Fighters arrive at scenes blind drunk but that is another story.

Paulzx

yosemite_sam wrote: »

That sounds about right, a great number for the part time guys. They get on average €500 a week plus jobseekers allowance and whatever they can for the cash work they do on the side. I know of one crew who were paid €2500 a day to attend a RTA course €5000 for two days work plus your dole is great money for any man.

You know of a Firefighter that was paid 5 grand to attend a 2 day training course?

At the risk of a ban you're talking through your ar*^hole.


There is also an ongoing problem at the moment of some retained firefighters who have lost their fulltime non fire jobs being ruled ineligable for dole by the Dept of Social Affairs as they classify them as unable to take up employment due to being retained Firefighters.

Take your crap elsewhere

Riskymove

yosemite_sam wrote: »

You could not make it up, one fire chief for the whole of London and we need individual chiefs for each county. .

no need to brign London into it,

you could just as easy say one chief for all of dublin and one for each small county etc

TylerIE

19hz wrote: »

"There is no clear right to an ambulance service. Generally, ambulances are used when the emergency services are called. For non-emergencies, the use of an ambulance is usually a medical decision. In general, people who do not have medical cards may be charged for the service. The practice varies between the HSE and charges may be waived in certain cases (i.e., hardship), etc."

Citizensinformation.ie"Charges for ambulance services
Unless you have a medical card, you may be charged for using an ambulance service. However, the position varies considerably from region to region. Charges may also be waived in certain cases (i.e., hardship)."


Irishhealth.com

*May* does not mean *are* or *will be*.

yosemite_sam

Paulzx wrote: »

You know of a Firefighter that was paid 5 grand to attend a 2 day training course?

At the risk of a ban you're talking through your ar*^hole.


There is also an ongoing problem at the moment of some retained firefighters who have lost their fulltime non fire jobs being ruled ineligable for dole by the Dept of Social Affairs as they classify them as unable to take up employment due to being retained Firefighters.

Take your crap elsewhere

Fact, the County council paid it. The part timers also get €500 a week on average plus their dole and they then work for cash along with it. I know all this because I am related to one.

yosemite_sam

Riskymove wrote: »

no need to brign London into it,

you could just as easy say one chief for all of dublin and one for each small county etc

How about one chief for the whole lot, why hand out out huge salaries to many when one will do.

civdef

Fact, the County council paid it. The part timers also get €500 a week on average plus their dole and they then work for cash along with it. I know all this because I am related to one.

On the issue of the wages you mention for a 2 day training course, you'll have to provide more details or GTFO. The typical gross daily training rate for a retained firefighter is approx €20 per - so €160 for the standard 8 hour day.

On the weekly wage issue, you would be describing gross pay for a relatively busy retained station, you do realise that this means 24/7 cover?

yosemite_sam

civdef wrote: »

On the issue of the wages you mention for a 2 day training course, you'll have to provide more details or GTFO. The typical gross daily training rate for a retained firefighter is approx €20 per - so €160 for the standard 8 hour day.

On the weekly wage issue, you would be describing gross pay for a relatively busy retained station, you do realise that this means 24/7 cover?

24/7 is how it would appear to work, when a call out occurs they go to the station and fill in an attendance sheet. Other than that their time is their own out from a weekly drill. That is how it works in this rural station

paraletic

19hz wrote: »

I saw the bill myself. Why would they send it for the charge of using an ambulance if the HSE doesn't charge?...I've always heard they charge, never heard any different.

Ok you heard that they charge!!
Did you ring the regional ambulance control. Get the number from the golden pages. Then you can find out for sure. Because the Internet can tell you what you want to hear!!!

civdef

24/7 is how it would appear to work, when a call out occurs they go to the station and fill in an attendance sheet. Other than that their time is their own out from a weekly drill. That is how it works in this rural station

I don't think you are really getting how retained cover works. The crew members are required to stay within 5 minutes of the station 24/7 (and in a fit state to respond) unless cover is arranged in advance. This is a massive imposition on anyone's family and work life.

yosemite_sam

civdef wrote: »

I don't think you are really getting how retained cover works. The crew members are required to stay within 5 minutes of the station 24/7 (and in a fit state to respond) unless cover is arranged in advance. This is a massive imposition on anyone's family and work life.

I know exactly how it is supposed to work but how it works in the rural station where I am is nothing like that, I have on dozens of occasions seen fire crew leaving public houses to attend calls. Shocking I know but true all the same.

gallag

Wait what, you guys pay for the fire brigade? Wtf? Next your guys will be telling me yous also pay for doctors. Crazy southerners.

ratracer

yosemite_sam wrote: »

I know exactly how it is supposed to work but how it works in the rural station where I am is nothing like that, I have on dozens of occasions seen fire crew leaving public houses to attend calls. Shocking I know but true all the same.

You have obviously heard some Chinese whispers and taken up the position of chief spreader if same. Retained fire fighters on a work related course get paid their drill rate, which as already stated is approx €20/hr. Given your 'fact' exaggeration of them being paid 5k for two days I find it difficult to believe your other statements. If you do know of fire fighters turning out to calls whilst under the influence of substances I suggest you contact the CFO in your county as this is a totally unacceptable practice.

yosemite_sam

ratracer wrote: »

You have obviously heard some Chinese whispers and taken up the position of chief spreader if same. Retained fire fighters on a work related course get paid their drill rate, which as already stated is approx €20/hr. Given your 'fact' exaggeration of them being paid 5k for two days I find it difficult to believe your other statements. If you do know of fire fighters turning out to calls whilst under the influence of substances I suggest you contact the CFO in your county as this is a totally unacceptable practice.

Not my job, people are paid to manage them, So I am discount the member of the fire brigade who told me what he and his colleagues were paid to do his course? I don't do Chinese whispers I have only quoted straight from the horses mouth and that is good enough for me

ratracer

If he told you he was paid €2500 per day for 2 days, then yes, I would discount it, he's clearly talking crap to try big himself up or something. Or else let us know what county he works in, I'll def look for a transfer

Paulzx

yosemite_sam wrote: »

Not my job, people are paid to manage them, So I am discount the member of the fire brigade who told me what he and his colleagues were paid to do his course? I don't do Chinese whispers I have only quoted straight from the horses mouth and that is good enough for me

Is your middle name "gullible" by any chance?


Don't send any cheques to Nigeria

jmadfire

Hi all don t now where this person is getting there info ,I been a firefighter for 11 years there is no 2 day course in the world that we get paid that money as some one said we get paid drill rate and when USC charge ,pension charge taken off it a small pay packet for 365 days a year with just every second weekend off ,family life upset etc am not going to go on am glad to have a job

RainyDay

yosemite_sam wrote: »

That sounds about right, a great number for the part time guys. They get on average €500 a week plus jobseekers allowance and whatever they can for the cash work they do on the side. I know of one crew who were paid €2500 a day to attend a RTA course €5000 for two days work plus your dole is great money for any man.

yosemite_sam wrote: »

Not my job, people are paid to manage them, So I am discount the member of the fire brigade who told me what he and his colleagues were paid to do his course? I don't do Chinese whispers I have only quoted straight from the horses mouth and that is good enough for me

Just tell us what county he's in and I'll get the records to prove that you've been taken for a fool. It's all public domain information, so you're not breaching any confidentiality. Just name the county, and we'll take it from there.

yosemite_sam

RainyDay wrote: »

Just tell us what county he's in and I'll get the records to prove that you've been taken for a fool. It's all public domain information, so you're not breaching any confidentiality. Just name the county, and we'll take it from there.

I have already done that.

wreckless

yosemite_sam wrote: »

I know of one crew who were paid €2500 a day to attend a RTA course €5000 for two days work

hello? which station, im putting in for transfer IMMEDIATELY!!!!!