Buying apartment v terraced house

grover_green

if people could set aside the perhaps ( questionable logic ) of buying property at all right now , i would like to ask the question if an appartment is always a worse buy than a house from an investment POV

im presently trying to decide whether to buy a one bed 500 sqr ft appartment in dublin 7 or a 780 sqr ft two up - two down terraced house , also in dublin 7

the appartment should fetch a monthly rent of around 700 to 750 while houses of this kind in the area generally pull in around 1050 to 1100 , appartment can be bought for 100 k which gives you a yield of in or around 8% , house for around 215 which delivers a return of 6%

an appartment has fewer doors , windows etc to maintain and repair , a house has a garden , both in this instance have their own front door

here are both properties

http://www.myhome.ie/residential/brochure/26-ard-righ-road-stoneybatter-dublin-7/2066911


http://www.myhome.ie/residential/brochure/3-norseman-court-stoneybatter-dublin-7/1613398


im ( a cash buyer ) buying to let but also to try and strengthen my possition from a collateral POV when dealing with banks down the road , based on grim forecasts about the medium to long term appartment market , i have concerns as to whether a bank would see much security in an appartment compared to a house

athtrasna

No question, the house. An apartment brings management fees which have no boundary, they can keep increasing. You also are a hostage to the financial situation of the management company. I would never recommend people buy in a managed development, speaking as an owner who does.

grover_green

athtrasna wrote: »

No question, the house. An apartment brings management fees which have no boundary, they can keep increasing. You also are a hostage to the financial situation of the management company. I would never recommend people buy in a managed development, speaking as an owner who does.

a hostage ? , in what sense , i would have thought if the managment company runs into problems , another managment company simply takes over , what other downfalls are there for the owner of an apt in this regard ?

athtrasna

No - you're thinking management agent. The MC is the legal entity made up of all owners in the development, the MC owns the buildings and all common areas. Lots of MCs are in financial difficulties due to people not paying their fees and having large expenses such as painting, maintenance etc. These holes in the budget have to be plugged and the money has to come from somewhere ie the owners.

If the MC is in financial difficulty you would find it next to impossible to sell your apartment should you want to move up.

StillWaters

House. Not only because of fees issue, but they will always hold their value better and be more saleable. That's a nice apartment, but doesn't trump the house.

Marcusm

I wouldn't buy that apartment - you will share in the management costs but as you don't use the common areas, you will only benefit from the insurance aspect.

The house is in beautiful shape and would benefit an owner occupier more than an investor as there seem to be lots of opportunities for minor damage which could involve significant cost or diminution of value. Does it share a boundary wall with Arbour Hill prison?

There seem to be similar houses with lower quality finishes in the area fr significantly less money. These will offer a very similar rent but a much higher yield and future refurb opportunities to improve the property if the market normalises.

I too am lucky at purchasing in inner city/near suburbs and would not consider anything under a 10 yield in current market. Rents have retained reasonably solId and will not rise dramatically as the economy improves.

grover_green

athtrasna wrote: »

No - you're thinking management agent. The MC is the legal entity made up of all owners in the development, the MC owns the buildings and all common areas. Lots of MCs are in financial difficulties due to people not paying their fees and having large expenses such as painting, maintenance etc. These holes in the budget have to be plugged and the money has to come from somewhere ie the owners.

If the MC is in financial difficulty you would find it next to impossible to sell your apartment should you want to move up.

actually i wasnt thinking managment agent , so what your saying is that every owner of an appartment is at the mercy of the rest of their neighbours financial wellbeing , i would have thought that at all times , their are some appartment owners in a complex who are not meeting their commitments , what happens if you simply dont pay your managment fees btw ?

grover_green

StillWaters wrote: »

House. Not only because of fees issue, but they will always hold their value better and be more saleable. That's a nice apartment, but doesn't trump the house.

that appartment can be accessed in an unconventional way , you can enter through the complex per normal but also through the front door , to the rear , the appartment is set along an area of traditional cottage and two up - two down houses , you could avoid the complex forever if you wished

grover_green

Marcusm wrote: »

I wouldn't buy that apartment - you will share in the management costs but as you don't use the common areas, you will only benefit from the insurance aspect.

The house is in beautiful shape and would benefit an owner occupier more than an investor as there seem to be lots of opportunities for minor damage which could involve significant cost or diminution of value. Does it share a boundary wall with Arbour Hill prison?

There seem to be similar houses with lower quality finishes in the area fr significantly less money. These will offer a very similar rent but a much higher yield and future refurb opportunities to improve the property if the market normalises.

I too am lucky at purchasing in inner city/near suburbs and would not consider anything under a 10 yield in current market. Rents have retained reasonably solId and will not rise dramatically as the economy improves.

the house does not share a boundary with arbour hill prison , every house around there is within a stonesthrow of arbour hill though

your right in saying that their are other houses around there ( broadly speaking ) which would fetch a higher yield but none of them will command 10 % and those which even command 8% are up the top end of oxmantown road , near o devaney gardens and ross st , areas which most people might not want to rent , again , nowhere near 10 %

you might be right however in saying that the house is more suited to an owner occupier , a person buying to let doesnt need to like a house , which is why i was leaning towards the appartment , though i would not pay anything close to what they are asking , im not sure this whole thing of managment company status carries as much risk as some here suggest , surely a sick managment company cannot doom every single appartments prospects

looked at an appartment in ranelagh yesterday ( no charechter at all ) and got chatting to an asian couple who were in the market for several months , they didnt like the noise from the train almost overhead around dublin 6 so were not going to buy , they reckoned for a buy to let , dublin 8 was a good choice , im considering checking out a few places around christchurch or perhaps even smithfield in dublin 7 , i dont mind buying in an area which isnt remotley affluent but its no use buying an appartment for 50 k in a crime infested blackspot where no one only mice rent

Marcusm

grover_green wrote: »

actually i wasnt thinking managment agent , so what your saying is that every owner of an appartment is at the mercy of the rest of their neighbours financial wellbeing , i would have thought that at all times , their are some appartment owners in a complex who are not meeting their commitments , what happens if you simply dont pay your managment fees btw ?

If a large number of tenants fail to pay fees, either the services degrade, cease or are paid for out of debt or the fees of others are used to pay for the ASIC services. Ultimately it's important that planned preventative maintenance is undertaken, that insurances are maintained etc. Over time developments with serious arrears will become known and will be avoided by buyers as they will ecome ticking time bombs marketability wise.

Marcusm

grover_green wrote: »

the house does not share a boundary with arbour hill prison , every house around there is within a stonesthrow of arbour hill though

your right in saying that their are other houses around there ( broadly speaking ) which would fetch a higher yield but none of them will command 10 % and those which even command 8% are up the top end of oxmantown road , near o devaney gardens and ross st , areas which most people might not want to rent , again , nowhere near 10 %

you might be right however in saying that the house is more suited to an owner occupier , a person buying to let doesnt need to like a house , which is why i was leaning towards the appartment , though i would not pay anything close to what they are asking , im not sure this whole thing of managment company status carries as much risk as some here suggest , surely a sick managment company cannot doom every single appartments prospects

looked at an appartment in ranelagh yesterday ( no charechter at all ) and got chatting to an asian couple who were in the market for several months , they didnt like the noise from the train almost overhead around dublin 6 so were not going to buy , they reckoned for a buy to let , dublin 8 was a good choice , im considering checking out a few places around christchurch or perhaps even smithfield in dublin 7 , i dont mind buying in an area which isnt remotley affluent but its no use buying an appartment for 50 k in a crime infested blackspot where no one only mice rent

I did a quick myhome search excluding any properties I've looked at before so this is not te most attactive prospect I've seen.....

Put 5 people into this at €400 per month and you'll get 10% even at the asking price. There are lots of properties like this in the north inner city and along SCR. Some larger, some smaller.

http://www.myhome.ie/residential/brochure/513-north-circular-road-north-city-centre-dublin-1/2021575

grover_green

Marcusm wrote: »

If a large number of tenants fail to pay fees, either the services degrade, cease or are paid for out of debt or the fees of others are used to pay for the ASIC services. Ultimately it's important that planned preventative maintenance is undertaken, that insurances are maintained etc. Over time developments with serious arrears will become known and will be avoided by buyers as they will ecome ticking time bombs marketability wise.

and how do you anticipate which particular complexes encounter future problems , simply avoiding appartments outright seems pretty extreme

besides , couldnt an appartment owner always engage in a bit of DIY

grover_green

Marcusm wrote: »

I did a quick myhome search excluding any properties I've looked at before so this is not te most attactive prospect I've seen.....

Put 5 people into this at €400 per month and you'll get 10% even at the asking price. There are lots of properties like this in the north inner city and along SCR. Some larger, some smaller.

http://www.myhome.ie/residential/brochure/513-north-circular-road-north-city-centre-dublin-1/2021575

ive seen three beds which are larger than that 1100 sqr foot house , even you managed to get five people to live together in one house ( and you would be lucky to have three on a permanent basis in a house like that ) , they would not be paying anywhere near 400 euro per week , four professionals sharing a four bed somewhere like drumcondra would not be paying 1600 per month , a bunch of professionals would not live in a house like that so close to gardner st , with its horribley designed kitchen to boot with no room to swing a cat , the only way you could fill that place is with five eastern europeans paying about fifty quid a week each

Marcusm

grover_green wrote: »

and how do you anticipate which particular complexes encounter future problems , simply avoiding appartments outright seems pretty extreme

besides , couldnt an appartment owner always engage in a bit of DIY

If things look a bit ropey, get a copy of the management company accounts to assess the arrears position. DIY won't help pay for insurances or to maintain a fire control system.

I'm not advocating apartments completely but with the one you tagged the owner does not benefit from many ofthe features which add up to the management charge hence why I would not be willing to buy it except for a large discount versus other apartments. A good example of this is the apartments in the Dalkey island hotel. One with its own door was recently put up for sale or a assume discount (think 300k purchase price) with a 6k management charge and ongoing litigation over management.

grover_green

Marcusm wrote: »

If things look a bit ropey, get a copy of the management company accounts to assess the arrears position. DIY won't help pay for insurances or to maintain a fire control system.

I'm not advocating apartments completely but with the one you tagged the owner does not benefit from many ofthe features which add up to the management charge hence why I would not be willing to buy it except for a large discount versus other apartments. A good example of this is the apartments in the Dalkey island hotel. One with its own door was recently put up for sale or a assume discount (think 300k purchase price) with a 6k management charge and ongoing litigation over management.

how does one get hold of such accounts ? , id have thought the appartment i tagged had added benefits , like independant access and proximity to a whole other neighbourhood from one end

StillWaters

grover_green wrote: »

StillWaters wrote: »

House. Not only because of fees issue, but they will always hold their value better and be more saleable. That's a nice apartment, but doesn't trump the house.

that appartment can be accessed in an unconventional way , you can enter through the complex per normal but also through the front door , to the rear , the appartment is set along an area of traditional cottage and two up - two down houses , you could avoid the complex forever if you wished

Like I said, a nice apartment, but houses hold their value more as they appeal to a broader range of people, investors, couples, small families. Is there no own outdoor space with the apartment, no balcony or patio. That would rule it out for me and many others.

grover_green

StillWaters wrote: »

Like I said, a nice apartment, but houses hold their value more as they appeal to a broader range of people, investors, couples, small families. Is there no own outdoor space with the apartment, no balcony or patio. That would rule it out for me and many others.

all the above is true but from a buy to let POV , yield is what counts , or so im told , that appartment while costing less than half of what an average two bed terrace house is to buy , only generates 45 to 50 % less rent per month

the_syco

House for the following reasons;
You can sound-proof the walls easier than the walls, floor and ceiling if your neighbours are noisy in an apartment.
You have a garden. if you have a child/intend to have kids, a garden is very handy.
Able to dry clothes in the garden.
Most likely have your own driveway, so less hassle finding a parking space.

Marcusm

grover_green wrote: »

ive seen three beds which are larger than that 1100 sqr foot house , even you managed to get five people to live together in one house ( and you would be lucky to have three on a permanent basis in a house like that ) , they would not be paying anywhere near 400 euro per week , four professionals sharing a four bed somewhere like drumcondra would not be paying 1600 per month , a bunch of professionals would not live in a house like that so close to gardner st , with its horribley designed kitchen to boot with no room to swing a cat , the only way you could fill that place is with five eastern europeans paying about fifty quid a week each

I agree it's small - I have a 2 bed almost twice the size. However, it has 5 bedrooms, 2 reasonable reception rooms and a small kitchen - look at the dining room. It's well located between the Mater and Temple Street and could attract a good few junior docs or nurses (likely foreign people who prize closeness to work rather than any particular area). 10-15k on a spruce up, storage and furniture would get it well let.

Marcusm

grover_green wrote: »

how does one get hold of such accounts ? , id have thought the appartment i tagged had added benefits , like independant access and proximity to a whole other neighbourhood from one end

The accounts woud be available from the seller, the companies regstration office etc but I'd go via the seller and seek management company correspondence.

What you see as added benefits I think make the management charge a joke - why have two accesses when one will do. If you like the front door, buy one f te two up two downs as you'll have more freedom to manage your wn property. Also some (admittedly a sall number) will be put off by the own door aspects if they see an apartment block as offering more security.

In summary, I see that property as having some of the disadvantages of apartment living but few of the advantages. It's quirky and will attract some but repel others.

StillWaters

grover_green wrote: »

StillWaters wrote: »

Like I said, a nice apartment, but houses hold their value more as they appeal to a broader range of people, investors, couples, small families. Is there no own outdoor space with the apartment, no balcony or patio. That would rule it out for me and many others.

all the above is true but from a buy to let POV , yield is what counts , or so im told , that appartment while costing less than half of what an average two bed terrace house is to buy , only generates 45 to 50 % less rent per month

Yes, yield is king, but you cannot ignore potential capital appreciation, or certainly the ease of liquidating the asset if needs be. Now that is priced in to some extent to the price of the apartment, but not enough in my view.

grover_green

the_syco wrote: »

House for the following reasons;
You can sound-proof the walls easier than the walls, floor and ceiling if your neighbours are noisy in an apartment.
You have a garden. if you have a child/intend to have kids, a garden is very handy.
Able to dry clothes in the garden.
Most likely have your own driveway, so less hassle finding a parking space.

all true from an owner occupier POV , my focus is buy to let , a childless couple could live in that appartment for a year or two and that appartment has the same kind of parking spot as the two bed terraced house , two properties are less than 200 metres appart

grover_green

Marcusm wrote: »

I agree it's small - I have a 2 bed almost twice the size. However, it has 5 bedrooms, 2 reasonable reception rooms and a small kitchen - look at the dining room. It's well located between the Mater and Temple Street and could attract a good few junior docs or nurses (likely foreign people who prize closeness to work rather than any particular area). 10-15k on a spruce up, storage and furniture would get it well let.

even their was no money to be spent on it , you would be unlikely to have five tennants on an ongoing basis and even you did , you would not be getting 400 euro each from them , very few people ( with means like docs or nurses ) want to live with four other people in a small ( for five bed ) house

whatever way you stock it , it would not make more than 1300 per month IMO

grover_green

StillWaters wrote: »

Yes, yield is king, but you cannot ignore potential capital appreciation, or certainly the ease of liquidating the asset if needs be. Now that is priced in to some extent to the price of the apartment, but not enough in my view.

ignore your preferance for a house for a minute , what value would you put on that 500 sqr ft one bed appartment which can command a minimum of 700 euro per month rental income

obviously its not worth anywhere near 119500 , its not worth anymore than 100 k tops

christmas2012

a house is a long term investment,but apartments are easy to sell too,people want them as young working professionals to their mid thirites etc,but if you want less hassle with management companies a house is a better option,but having said that you pay less on property valuation for your apartment..

athtrasna

grover_green wrote: »

actually i wasnt thinking managment agent , so what your saying is that every owner of an appartment is at the mercy of the rest of their neighbours financial wellbeing , i would have thought that at all times , their are some appartment owners in a complex who are not meeting their commitments , what happens if you simply dont pay your managment fees btw ?

Like I said, the management company is a legal entity made up of all owners. This has to be registered with the CRO and must comply with company law. It's one company, you can't "just get another one"

Any of us in managed developments have to rely on everyone to pay their fees, our Management agent follows up on this and we do take legal action if necessary. You sign legal documents at purchase to commit to paying these fees, by not complying with this, you face sanctions with the final options being a judgement mortgage on the property or forfeiture of the property (as you would be in breach of the lease).

My SIL has an apartment in a development with financial issues. She has tried to sell but can't. Refuse services have been withdrawn because the bills weren't being paid and grounds and building maintenance stopped 12 months ago for the same reason. What buyer would want to buy there?

grover_green

christmas2012 wrote: »

a house is a long term investment,but apartments are easy to sell too,people want them as young working professionals to their mid thirites etc,but if you want less hassle with management companies a house is a better option,but having said that you pay less on property valuation for your apartment..

im not buying to flip , i would hope to keep either for more than twenty years at the very least , my attitude is if i can get over 6% on a property , im doing twice as well as with money in the bank , im really not that bothered about capital appreciation , might sound strange but there you go

btw , are you sure a 500 sqr ft appartment would cost that much less to tax than an 800 sqr ft two bed terraced house

grover_green

athtrasna wrote: »

Like I said, the management company is a legal entity made up of all owners. This has to be registered with the CRO and must comply with company law. It's one company, you can't "just get another one"

Any of us in managed developments have to rely on everyone to pay their fees, our Management agent follows up on this and we do take legal action if necessary. You sign legal documents at purchase to commit to paying these fees, by not complying with this, you face sanctions with the final options being a judgement mortgage on the property or forfeiture of the property (as you would be in breach of the lease).

My SIL has an apartment in a development with financial issues. She has tried to sell but can't. Refuse services have been withdrawn because the bills weren't being paid and grounds and building maintenance stopped 12 months ago for the same reason. What buyer would want to buy there?

with the current state of the appartment market , id have thought any real penalty for owners in arrears is a rarity , id also have thought that a very sizeable percentage of appartment blocks have at least one owner who is not pulling their weight , if its a case of the integrity of an apparment only being as strong as its weakest link in the entire building , im surprised the entire appartment market is not in complete paralysis

athtrasna

grover_green wrote: »

with the current state of the appartment market , id have thought any real penalty for owners in arrears is a rarity , id also have thought that a very sizeable percentage of appartment blocks have at least one owner who is not pulling their weight , if its a case of the integrity of an apparment only being as strong as its weakest link in the entire building , im surprised the entire appartment market is not in complete paralysis

The penalty is that a judge can (and has) order the non-paying unit to pay fees. In some development the management company withdraws insurance cover/parking rights/refuse collection from non paying members and that can encourage people to pay up. Why should the rest of us pay while non-payers benefit from the services?

grover_green

athtrasna wrote: »

The penalty is that a judge can (and has) order the non-paying unit to pay fees. In some development the management company withdraws insurance cover/parking rights/refuse collection from non paying members and that can encourage people to pay up. Why should the rest of us pay while non-payers benefit from the services?

it was hinted earlier that if one or more apt owners stop paying their fees , everyone suffers , services get withdrawn across the board and all the properties in the complex become unsaleable

if only those not paying their bills see a withdrawl of services , i see little problem

athtrasna

grover_green wrote: »

it was hinted earlier that if one or more apt owners stop paying their fees , everyone suffers , services get withdrawn across the board and all the properties in the complex become unsaleable

if only those not paying their bills see a withdrawl of services , i see little problem

Everyone does lose out. What I was saying is that in some cases MC withdraw services as "an encouragement" to pay fees. For example, parking permit withdrawn, owner has rented unit, tenant gets clamped. Owner either pays fees or loses tenants very quickly. Or if there is a mortgage on the property and insurance is withdrawn, the owner is in breach of their mortgage conditions and the bank will act pretty quickly if notified.

If these tactics (used by some MCs not all) and/or legal action do not work, the hole left in the budget means all owners suffer. Bills have to be paid, if the money isn't there they can't be.

grover_green

athtrasna wrote: »

Everyone does lose out. What I was saying is that in some cases MC withdraw services as "an encouragement" to pay fees. For example, parking permit withdrawn, owner has rented unit, tenant gets clamped. Owner either pays fees or loses tenants very quickly. Or if there is a mortgage on the property and insurance is withdrawn, the owner is in breach of their mortgage conditions and the bank will act pretty quickly if notified.

If these tactics (used by some MCs not all) and/or legal action do not work, the hole left in the budget means all owners suffer. Bills have to be paid, if the money isn't there they can't be.

so if five people in a fifty appartment block complex stop paying thier bills , the remaining forty five have to pick up the tab , can the managment fees keep rising indefinatley

athtrasna

It would be hoped that there would be enough money in the sinking fund to tide the development over in the short term while action is taken against the five.

Those not paying continue to accumulate debt - but fees would increase to replenish the sinking fund. Fees are calculated as a percentage of the development budget in most cases. The budget would have to include a provision for non-payers which would result in increased fees.

Any management company should provide flexible options for paying fees as a way of encouraging payment - we have cash, cheque, paypal and direct debit options, but I know some developments insist on full payment within 30 days of invoicing.

Teyla Emmagan

A friend of mine living on Ard Righ road in Stoneybatter for years, I think that one might actually have adjoined her house. Anyway, the neighbours were lovely (she still visits a couple of them). Mainly arty types/nice old ladies. No kids from what I remember. It was really quiet and there are good shops and restaurants. Her husband was mugged around the corner on his way home one day though, and there is still quite a dodgy element around there. He was very badly shook, got a good few thumps from 2 thugs before an unmarked Garda car appeared out of no where.

I would always go for a house over an apartment though, even though it will require more maintenance.

Marcusm

grover_green wrote: »

all true from an owner occupier POV , my focus is buy to let , a childless couple could live in that appartment for a year or two and that appartment has the same kind of parking spot as the two bed terraced house , two properties are less than 200 metres appart

Is there permit parking on the street? Often apartment or MUD dwellers (even in houses) are not entitled to DCC residents parking permits as the parking is supposed to be provided off street under std planning conditions.

Marcusm

grover_green wrote: »

so if five people in a fifty appartment block complex stop paying thier bills , the remaining forty five have to pick up the tab , can the managment fees keep rising indefinatley

I have heard (from friends in accountancy practices which audit MC accounts) that the non payment rate can often e as high as 40% and carry on for years. Often highest where the developer has kept units as investments.

Marcusm

grover_green wrote: »

even their was no money to be spent on it , you would be unlikely to have five tennants on an ongoing basis and even you did , you would not be getting 400 euro each from them , very few people ( with means like docs or nurses ) want to live with four other people in a small ( for five bed ) house

whatever way you stock it , it would not make more than 1300 per month IMO

Opinions differ; personally I would probably split it into 2 2 bed flats which would let for a lot more than 1300 per month in aggregate. There's already a downstairs bathroom.

Teyla Emmagan

Marcusm wrote: »

Opinions differ; personally I would probably split it into 2 2 bed flats which would let for a lot more than 1300 per month in aggregate. There's already a downstairs bathroom.

The upstairs of those houses are absolutely tiny, and the stairs goes through the living room downstairs (it's not right inside the front door). You could never make 2 flats out of it.

the_syco

grover_green wrote: »

all true from an owner occupier POV , my focus is buy to let , a childless couple could live in that appartment for a year or two and that appartment has the same kind of parking spot as the two bed terraced house , two properties are less than 200 metres appart

Is the apartment parking on street, or in an underground parking? Does the apartment complex employ clampers? Does it have electronic gates into the carpark? Can anyone park anywhere? I ask as parking in a driveway outside the house, and having a parking spot near an apartment are two different things.

murphaph

It sounds to me incredible that people would simply not pay their management fees, but that's Ireland it seems.

If that happens here (Germany) the management company acting on behalf of the rest of the owners will sue the non-paying owner and if necessarry have him declared bankrupt and have the unit sold to pay the back debts.

Marcusm

Teyla Emmagan wrote: »

The upstairs of those houses are absolutely tiny, and the stairs goes through the living room downstairs (it's not right inside the front door). You could never make 2 flats out of it.

My response related to a different house on NCR!

grover_green

Marcusm wrote: »

Is there permit parking on the street? Often apartment or MUD dwellers (even in houses) are not entitled to DCC residents parking permits as the parking is supposed to be provided off street under std planning conditions.

yes , same parking arrangement as for any of the houses around ard rhigh , oxmantown road , etc , the apt in question can be accessed through conventional complex entrance and up by arbour hill - old stoneybatter neighbourhood

grover_green

Teyla Emmagan wrote: »

The upstairs of those houses are absolutely tiny, and the stairs goes through the living room downstairs (it's not right inside the front door). You could never make 2 flats out of it.

i think marcusm needs to put that house in the maybe file at best

grover_green

the_syco wrote: »

Is the apartment parking on street, or in an underground parking? Does the apartment complex employ clampers? Does it have electronic gates into the carpark? Can anyone park anywhere? I ask as parking in a driveway outside the house, and having a parking spot near an apartment are two different things.

if you look at the pictures in the link , you can see how the front of that apt is like a house entrance , their exists the same parking ( from dublin co ) as does for any of the two or three bed terraced houses in that general area , their is car park access for other appartments in the complex , that appartment is one of only a few which sit back into another neighbourhood

grover_green

murphaph wrote: »

It sounds to me incredible that people would simply not pay their management fees, but that's Ireland it seems.

If that happens here (Germany) the management company acting on behalf of the rest of the owners will sue the non-paying owner and if necessarry have him declared bankrupt and have the unit sold to pay the back debts.

whoever built the complex probabley owns half the appartments and are themselves without a pot to p1ss in

borderlinemeath

The house, everytime. But not that house, as others say it's more owner occupier, not a BTL.

OP would you be into a renovation? If it were me with cash in hand I would buy something like this:

http://www.myhome.ie/residential/brochure/31-gullistan-cottages-rathmines-dublin-6/1837725

Reason being my OH who has a few properties purchased one of this cottages last year and did it up. He had people calling to the door before it was even finished. He never even had to put it up for letting. Including all renovation costs and finished to a high spec - his yield is coming in at 11.5%.

Rathmines is a very strong rental area and the location is perfect, really quiet and private but beside everything.

grover_green

borderlinemeath wrote: »

The house, everytime. But not that house, as others say it's more owner occupier, not a BTL.

OP would you be into a renovation? If it were me with cash in hand I would buy something like this:

http://www.myhome.ie/residential/brochure/31-gullistan-cottages-rathmines-dublin-6/1837725

Reason being my OH who has a few properties purchased one of this cottages last year and did it up. He had people calling to the door before it was even finished. He never even had to put it up for letting. Including all renovation costs and finished to a high spec - his yield is coming in at 11.5%.

Rathmines is a very strong rental area and the location is perfect, really quiet and private but beside everything.

i know that area , you would need to spend 50 k to bring that property up to the standard of this

http://www.myhome.ie/residential/brochure/53-gulistan-cottages-rathmines-dublin-6/1929507

theese properties are worth 1100 euro per month to rent , thats nowhere near an 11% yield , no way that property will cost less than 215 k to buy or in respect of the run down one , 200 k by the time its ready to go , 11% cannot be gotten anywhere in dublin 6

ps , that area isnt quiet , you have the pleasure of listening to deliveries to the swan centre ( right behind you ) at 4 am in the morning

Marcusm

grover_green wrote: »

yes , same parking arrangement as for any of the houses around ard rhigh , oxmantown road , etc , the apt in question can be accessed through conventional complex entrance and up by arbour hill - old stoneybatter neighbourhood

Apartments and converted houses don't have the same access to residents parking permits as houses - see below an extract from DCC's website. The cost is much higher and if is an apartment block in a heavy demand zone, no permits are available.


The standard fee for a resident’s parking permit is:

€50 for 1 year and  €80 for 2 years if you live in a house.

€400 for 1 year or €750 for 2 years if your building contains more than 4 housing units, has off-road parking available to it and is located in a low demand zone (includes converted houses and apartment blocks).

€400 for 1 year or €750 for 2 years if your building is a converted house, contains more than 4 housing units, has off-road parking available to it and is located in a heavy demand zone

2. Renew your parking permit

grover_green

Marcusm wrote: »

Apartments and converted houses don't have the same access to residents parking permits as houses - see below an extract from DCC's website. The cost is much higher and if is an apartment block in a heavy demand zone, no permits are available.


The standard fee for a resident’s parking permit is:

€50 for 1 year and €80 for 2 years if you live in a house.

€400 for 1 year or €750 for 2 years if your building contains more than 4 housing units, has off-road parking available to it and is located in a low demand zone (includes converted houses and apartment blocks).

€400 for 1 year or €750 for 2 years if your building is a converted house, contains more than 4 housing units, has off-road parking available to it and is located in a heavy demand zone

2. Renew your parking permit

well i was told it was the same as a house , il check it out , like i said earlier , one end of that apt sits among houses

borderlinemeath

grover_green wrote: »

i know that area , you would need to spend 50 k to bring that property up to the standard of this

http://www.myhome.ie/residential/brochure/53-gulistan-cottages-rathmines-dublin-6/1929507

theese properties are worth 1100 euro per month to rent , thats nowhere near an 11% yield , no way that property will cost less than 215 k to buy or in respect of the run down one , 200 k by the time its ready to go , 11% cannot be gotten anywhere in dublin 6

Well you are incorrect. It is hard to achieve but it can be done. My partner was a cash buyer in the same position as yourself, he paid less than the one I posted, and less than the asking price. He spent less than €30k renovating it, as I said previously he has other properties so is no stranger to renovations. He project manages tradesmen and gets trade discounts in his preferred builders providers. So it can be done if you do it right;).

ps , that area isnt quiet , you have the pleasure of listening to deliveries to the swan centre ( right behind you ) at 4 am in the morning

And it is quiet as when it was completed we spent a couple of nights in it ourselves:D. The people who moved in lived in one of the other cottages and stated they would love to buy if they could as they love the area so much. I also have a friend who lives a few doors up from the one you posted, have been at a party til 6am in her place and the only noise was the birds chirping;). It used to be noisier years ago when the recycling facilty was a full blown bin yard and the trucks rolled in and out but it hasn't been like that for years. Noisiest thing around there is the town hall bell.

StillWaters

grover_green wrote: »

i know that area , you would need to spend 50 k to bring that property up to the standard of this

http://www.myhome.ie/residential/brochure/53-gulistan-cottages-rathmines-dublin-6/1929507

theese properties are worth 1100 euro per month to rent , thats nowhere near an 11% yield , no way that property will cost less than 215 k to buy or in respect of the run down one , 200 k by the time its ready to go , 11% cannot be gotten anywhere in dublin 6

ps , that area isnt quiet , you have the pleasure of listening to deliveries to the swan centre ( right behind you ) at 4 am in the morning

No way will it cost €50K to refurbish it to that standard, 25K I'd say. Looks like gas heating already in, so dependent on extension, could be mostly cosmetic and a fair bit less than 25, dependent on contacts/DIY skills.

Looks like a receivership sale, so cash buyer could buy it for less than asking.