Post graduate diploma for maths teachers UL FREE!

Wicklowleaid

Have just applied to do this course in Ucd or tallaght wondering has anyone else applying to do it? Closing date is tomorrow!

mrboswell

Bump on this...

I wasn't teaching last year but hope to have some maths hours next year.

Are these courses coming up again this year?

markjh

Yes it's open now for applications. I'm doing it this year. You need to get your principal to sign the form to say you're teaching maths so that you are eligible for the course. There's not much more to the application than that.
Applications open until 10th May.

http://www.ul.ie/graduateschool/node/347

mrboswell

Great. Thanks for the info.

TheDriver

heard it was dreadful but thats only hearsay.

markjh

It is!

TheBody

TheDriver wrote: »

heard it was dreadful but thats only hearsay.

markjh wrote: »

It is!

Dreadful in what way?

markjh

the travelling is the toughest part of it. I travel an hour both ways to lecs, twice per week. Just means that all of Monday and Thursday evening is gone... Then there's the Saturdays as well, which adds another 4 hours travel to the week.... The lectures are not done in each of the centres... they are broadcast from one centre across the internet to the other centres. Doesn't make sense that people can't watch the lectures from home... everyone has internet! It puts a lot of pressure on teachers who already under enough pressure.

TheDriver

i heard from people who are at the actual lecture that is being broadcast and they must keep quiet, not ask questions etc.
Also heard that timescales/work load changed from the original spec and hence good few people dropped out.
But thats only what I heard

markjh

Yes what you heard is true. I don't think a lot of people who signed up for it realised how big of a commitment it would be... 2 exams next Saturday. It's a terrible time for them considering how busy teachers are with orals and final prep for Leaving & Junior Cert exams.

Claire16

Hi thinking of applying for maths diploma in Ul any advice

blueberrypie

Two teachers in my school are in their second year of the course and will be finished in June.

It was described by one as being tougher than her masters.
There is a huge workload and commitment required with exams and assignments as well as attending the lectures.

There seems to be no communication between the lecturers and the content they are delivering as there is often overlap.

They have given feedback to the organisers of the course outlining the difficulties and problems but have seen no improvement in year 2.

I was told stay away from it they would not recommend anyone to do it.

My principal is hoping I will complete it. I will not be applying this year.

doc_17

The level of difficulty would be an issue as well for some I believe. The standard is quite high and a lad I know doing it says that it is very tough and takes a lot of time. And he comes from a fairly strong maths background and was teaching LCHL Maths already

Claire16

Any one know of an alternative to doing the maths diploma in ul that allows you to teach maths maybe a shorter and easier course?

evolving_doors

Claire16 wrote: »

Any one know of an alternative to doing the maths diploma in ul that allows you to teach maths maybe a shorter and easier course?

Shorter and Easier :eek: that's impossible...

AS it is 2 years aint too bad to get a maths qualification from scratch!! The usual route is the Ordinary Level Degree, the UL course is Part-time ...AND FREE!!

Are you thinking Full time or Part Time?

rainbowtrout

doc_17 wrote: »

The level of difficulty would be an issue as well for some I believe. The standard is quite high and a lad I know doing it says that it is very tough and takes a lot of time. And he comes from a fairly strong maths background and was teaching LCHL Maths already

Of course it is. It's supposed to be degree level maths.

Claire16 wrote: »

Any one know of an alternative to doing the maths diploma in ul that allows you to teach maths maybe a shorter and easier course?

It always worries me that teachers are coming on here looking for short cuts to getting qualifications. The teaching council qualification requires maths to degree level, why should anyone get a qualification for not reaching that standard?


From what I've read on this forum, I suspect some teachers signed up to the course thinking it was just going to be a handy inservice type thing and wouldn't go beyond LC level maths. I think teachers who can get on this course are very lucky. Despite the problems with the delivery of the course that have been posted about here, those who have enrolled are getting a third level qualification in maths for free. I did my maths qualification through open university and I was happy to pay for it, but to meet requirements it's cost me about €4000.

Ronan_75

The Teaching Council claim to want maths to degree level ,but the Ul course is a diploma and you can get onto it as long as you are teaching maths in a school already, whatever your background is. It definitely is a shortcut!

rainbowtrout

Ronan_75 wrote: »

The Teaching Council claim to want maths to degree level ,but the Ul course is a diploma and you can get onto it as long as you are teaching maths in a school already, whatever your background is. It definitely is a shortcut!

The teaching council require 30% of a degree to be maths and for it to be taken to final year. This amounts to at least 54 credits. This same amount and level of maths is being covered in the diploma. A degree can only be awarded for 180 credits of third level study. It's not what I would call a shortcut or easier route. From what I've heard of the course it's tough going

markjh

Ronan_75 wrote: »

The Teaching Council claim to want maths to degree level ,but the Ul course is a diploma and you can get onto it as long as you are teaching maths in a school already, whatever your background is. It definitely is a shortcut!

It is to degree level. A degree is level 8. The Professional Diploma is also level 8... So it is to degree level.

Ronan_75

It may be hard going, I know someone doing it and there's a lot of work involved of course, but it's still a 2 year Part time course. Can you do a 2 year part time course for any subject and then be qualified to teach it?

evolving_doors

Ronan_75 wrote: »

It may be hard going, I know someone doing it and there's a lot of work involved of course, but it's still a 2 year Part time course. Can you do a 2 year part time course for any subject and then be qualified to teach it?

Good question... It would seem the qualification requirements on the TC site are all ' degree ' based as it's assumed you have done or are doing the 'HDip'. So, say I was a science and pe teacher with my HDIp and I decided later on to do a degree part time in maths (through open university)... technically could I register my new subject with the TC without doing the teaching methodologies? Or would I have to head back to do another HDip!...

I suppose the only way to be totally kosher is to do the degree and then the methodologies in the hdip (leaving out the BEd path). But I think in practice the word 'qualified' is a bit loose, in the past many teachers were thrown into subjects by the school so we are still dealing with legacy issues of ' being qualified' vs. 'the needs of the school'.

rainbowtrout

Ronan_75 wrote: »

It may be hard going, I know someone doing it and there's a lot of work involved of course, but it's still a 2 year Part time course. Can you do a 2 year part time course for any subject and then be qualified to teach it?

It's not so much about the course being part time or 2 years, it's about gaining enough credits in the revelant topics to be deemed qualified.

If a normal degree is 180 credits and most graduates have two subjects in that degree, e.g. a BSc in Maths and Chemistry or a B.A. in French and History, they might have 90 credits in each subject or thereabouts, so they are on average doing 30 credits in each subject per academic year, for a 3 year degree. It might be divided slightly differently in a four year degree.

If you are only taking one subject as the people on this maths course are, it's perfectly possible to complete 30 credits in one year, and therefore 60 in two years, if you are only concentrating on one subject.

The maths course is really the only structured course that has been designed as an add on for teaching qualifications. For other subjects people just get their current qualifications assessed by the Teaching Council and make up the necessary credits in whatever way possible.

I have 18 credits in my degree in physics. I enrolled as an occasional student in NUIM this year and completed 20 credits in second year physics and intend to enrol in third year physics next year and eventually have credits/requirements to register for physics. I'll be doing this over 2 years, essentially part time while holding down a full time teaching job.

RealJohn

rainbowtrout wrote: »

I have 18 credits in my degree in physics. I enrolled as an occasional student in NUIM this year and completed 20 credits in second year physics and intend to enrol in third year physics next year and eventually have credits/requirements to register for physics. I'll be doing this over 2 years, essentially part time while holding down a full time teaching job.

Off topic but I was considering going down this route myself (I think we might have PMed about it) but when I looked at the timetables I wasn't able to make most of the lectures and to make it to labs I would have needed to get a few classes off every week and I'm only a half an hour from NUIM. Was it a lot of trouble to work this around a full time timetable? I think I'd want to make it to as many lectures as possible.

rainbowtrout

RealJohn wrote: »

Off topic but I was considering going down this route myself (I think we might have PMed about it) but when I looked at the timetables I wasn't able to make most of the lectures and to make it to labs I would have needed to get a few classes off every week and I'm only a half an hour from NUIM. Was it a lot of trouble to work this around a full time timetable? I think I'd want to make it to as many lectures as possible.

Will PM about it

JohnnyGstar

Some quick questions guys about the new Maths requirements.....

The subjects that I am registered to teach with the TC are Accounting, Business and Business Studies. However, when I did my H.Dip back in 2005/6 my main subject was Maths and I did Accounting as the other subject.

When I finished my H.Dip I went straight into Accountancy and I am hoping to return to teaching now. But as I did a B.Comm I realise that I'm not qualified to teach Maths under the new regulations. I have two queries I was hoping people could help with:

1. Is there any point in me applying for jobs that include Maths, even to JC level?

2. I can't afford the €4k to do the UL Maths Diploma. Would any school take me on to teach Maths part time and sign off for me to do the course for free? I presume it's still free?!

blueberrypie

Apply for every job going... I have had to teach Maths in every contract despite being only qualified in the Business subjects.

Many of the teachers last year on the course did not have maths hours lined up in any school and they were allowed do the course, just ask a principal to sign the form and UL will decide.

Quota has not been reached for this year and they have extended the deadline to this Friday.

Last year it was still open till August due to the slow take up.

Rumour has it, that it may be the last year of the course being offered.

JohnnyGstar

thanks for your advice.

I'm not teaching at the moment so I don't know any principals to sign it off

I live in the North West so I wouldn't be able to attend the college in Limerick - do they do it online?

doc_17

It runs in Letterkenny IT as well.

blueberrypie

They run weekly lectures one night a week in various IT's. CIT, UL, etc
Look up online for the centre closest to you.

Another night a week is an online lecture.
You must attend UL for 5 Saturdays and a Summer school.

mmm ask a principal to sign it or take a chance and apply anyway.

It will be interesting to see if the deadline is extended again.

TheBody

I'm surprised that the deadline had to be extended. I thought the places would be snapped up!

Scooby29

I have got accepted onto the course but I have to furnish details of my current contract even though I gave this already.

My contract expires in November with my School but I am very hopeful that it will be extended! Could this be an issue?

blueberrypie

Just checked online its still saying
"late applications will be accepted till quota is filled"
I'd say you will be accepted alright.

I have applied but have received nothing yet.

When were they in contact with you?

Scooby29

blueberrypie wrote: »

Just checked online its still saying
"late applications will be accepted till quota is filled"
I'd say you will be accepted alright.

I have applied but have received nothing yet.

When were they in contact with you?

I received a letter today!

One of the requirements is that you

A. Have a teaching contract at the time of application and B. Have a teaching contract at the time of course start date i.e. September.

It doesnt say how long your contract has to be for!!!

RealJohn

I would think you should be fine. I imagine those regulations are to make sure that it's genuine teachers are applying, not people who just feel like doing a maths course or over-enthusiastic PGME (or whatever the dip is called these days) students trying to add another subject before they've even qualified.

blueberrypie

bump

evolving_doors

blueberrypie wrote: »

Just checked online its still saying
"late applications will be accepted till quota is filled"
I'd say you will be accepted alright.

I have applied but have received nothing yet.

When were they in contact with you?

If I remember correctly On the application form it says that they will wait for applicants who are waiting to sign teaching contracts... so could be another week or so!! esp if the course hasn't filled its quota yet.

ldoll

Hi guys,

Do any of you know if the Saturday lectures run in all venues (as opposed to just UL), and is one lecture a week definitely online?

Trying to decide if I'll be able to manage it Literally only got acceptance letter today. I started a PGSEN on Monday convinced that I hadn't been accepted to the maths, but in two minds whether to just try and do both...

Any help on answers is much appreciated!

blueberrypie

Hi
there are no Sat lectures from now on.
It will be every Tues in your local centre and the Thursday session will be a tutorial in your centre or a recorded lecture which you can watch at home.

They are strict this year only wanting people with contracts in year 1 of course a contract in year 2 is not a requirement.

Another year they only required teachers to have contract in year 2 not year 1.

evolving_doors

blueberrypie wrote: »

Hi
there are no Sat lectures from now on.
It will be every Tues in your local centre and the Thursday session will be a tutorial in your centre or a recorded lecture which you can watch at home.

They are strict this year only wanting people with contracts in year 1 of course a contract in year 2 is not a requirement.

Another year they only required teachers to have contract in year 2 not year 1.

are you sure about the no saturdays? I thought they said it would be a couple of saturdays after christmas? Actually, where the heck do you get a course calendar.

blueberrypie

Sorry no Sat lectures just 5 workshops in UL before the year end I think.
We only got the bear outline last Sat of what was happening.
Isn't there a specific website being set up
for us with that info.
I cannot get into it and my ul email isn't working either. Is yours working?

evolving_doors

blueberrypie wrote: »

Sorry no Sat lectures just 5 workshops in UL before the year end I think.
We only got the bear outline last Sat of what was happening.
Isn't there a specific website being set up
for us with that info.
I cannot get into it and my ul email isn't working either. Is yours working?

ill tidy up links later but ya the main log in screen is frozen... however... got to https://www.outlook.com/studentmail.ul.ie then yourstudentnumber@studentmail.ul.ie and yer password
loadsa junkmail in there already but you should get a mail with a link to the maths4teachers site with password... then calendar is online

saturdays ...
13dec exam
31 jan wrkshp
21 march wrkshop
25 april exam
16 may wrkshp
13 june exam

blueberrypie

thanks for links and dates.

clearview99

blueberrypie wrote: »

Sorry no Sat lectures just 5 workshops in UL before the year end I think.
We only got the bear outline last Sat of what was happening.
Isn't there a specific website being set up
for us with that info.
I cannot get into it and my ul email isn't working either. Is yours working?

Blueberry Pie -

Any idea if they are still accepting recruits for this year? UL kind of left me hanging and I never heard a thing back from them. You see, I don't have any timetabled maths hours this year and that's what was holding me back - do you know of anyone taking the course this year who hasn't got any maths hours? Any ideas how i'd get around this?

clearview99

rainbowtrout wrote: »

Of course it is. It's supposed to be degree level maths.



It always worries me that teachers are coming on here looking for short cuts to getting qualifications. The teaching council qualification requires maths to degree level, why should anyone get a qualification for not reaching that standard?


From what I've read on this forum, I suspect some teachers signed up to the course thinking it was just going to be a handy inservice type thing and wouldn't go beyond LC level maths. I think teachers who can get on this course are very lucky. Despite the problems with the delivery of the course that have been posted about here, those who have enrolled are getting a third level qualification in maths for free. I did my maths qualification through open university and I was happy to pay for it, but to meet requirements it's cost me about €4000.

Rainbowtrout - would you recommend the OU route to getting a maths qualification - i'd love to teach it at post primary - I toyed with the idea of Maths and Home Ec. (I know, funny combo!) when deciding on an undergrad course and in the end, went with the H.Ec. Now I'd love to have some sort of qualification to teach maths at PP, particularly as a lot of people have said to me about the risk of H.E. becoming obsolete in the future if schools decide to stop offering it? Any advice? I tried to get on the UL dip. but once they knew I hadn't any maths hours, they were having none of it

evolving_doors

clearview99 wrote: »

Blueberry Pie -

Any idea if they are still accepting recruits for this year? UL kind of left me hanging and I never heard a thing back from them. You see, I don't have any timetabled maths hours this year and that's what was holding me back - do you know of anyone taking the course this year who hasn't got any maths hours? Any ideas how i'd get around this?

Any resource hours teaching maths???? Maybe you could offer the school to be available for free for a few resource classes on some type of trade off!

evolving_doors

clearview99 wrote: »

Rainbowtrout - would you recommend the OU route to getting a maths qualification - i'd love to teach it at post primary - I toyed with the idea of Maths and Home Ec. (I know, funny combo!) when deciding on an undergrad course and in the end, went with the H.Ec. Now I'd love to have some sort of qualification to teach maths at PP, particularly as a lot of people have said to me about the risk of H.E. becoming obsolete in the future if schools decide to stop offering it? Any advice? I tried to get on the UL dip. but once they knew I hadn't any maths hours, they were having none of it

DIT do a part time maths degree !! It'd take a while though. Think it's 6 years to ordinary level degree which is accepted by TC. Not as expensive as the OU I;d imagine! (Sorry for butting in)

rainbowtrout

clearview99 wrote: »

Rainbowtrout - would you recommend the OU route to getting a maths qualification - i'd love to teach it at post primary - I toyed with the idea of Maths and Home Ec. (I know, funny combo!) when deciding on an undergrad course and in the end, went with the H.Ec. Now I'd love to have some sort of qualification to teach maths at PP, particularly as a lot of people have said to me about the risk of H.E. becoming obsolete in the future if schools decide to stop offering it? Any advice? I tried to get on the UL dip. but once they knew I hadn't any maths hours, they were having none of it

If you can afford it, then yes. I found OU very good to deal with. They are well established and well regarded. You can work at your own pace - in the respect that if you have time to take on one module this year, and two next year then you can do that once you have the money. So you will be setting your own schedule. Their Maths and Stats degree is recognised by the TC so no problems there, but you wouldn't need the whole degree to get maths recognition.

Their materials are of a high standard, they also have audio CDs for some sections of their books and I got maths software from them too. They also have forums for OU students so you can discuss problems with them, but you can't discuss assignment questions for obvious reasons. They have tutorials for each module 3-4 times per year and you have access to your tutor by email/phone.

The only thing I would say is that when you enrol for a module, you will be sent all your materials along with a calendar. You have to study things in the order laid out and assignments have fixed deadlines. So you generally need to stick to the schedule you are sent. It's completely manageable though.

clearview99

rainbowtrout wrote: »

If you can afford it, then yes. I found OU very good to deal with. They are well established and well regarded. You can work at your own pace - in the respect that if you have time to take on one module this year, and two next year then you can do that once you have the money. So you will be setting your own schedule. Their Maths and Stats degree is recognised by the TC so no problems there, but you wouldn't need the whole degree to get maths recognition.

Their materials are of a high standard, they also have audio CDs for some sections of their books and I got maths software from them too. They also have forums for OU students so you can discuss problems with them, but you can't discuss assignment questions for obvious reasons. They have tutorials for each module 3-4 times per year and you have access to your tutor by email/phone.

The only thing I would say is that when you enrol for a module, you will be sent all your materials along with a calendar. You have to study things in the order laid out and assignments have fixed deadlines. So you generally need to stick to the schedule you are sent. It's completely manageable though.

Thanks for this - what modules then would I need to apply for and complete? Is it doable considering I've only got LC HL Maths to my name i.e. none what so ever from undergrad??

clearview99

Armelodie wrote: »

DIT do a part time maths degree !! It'd take a while though. Think it's 6 years to ordinary level degree which is accepted by TC. Not as expensive as the OU I;d imagine! (Sorry for butting in)

Thanks Armelodoe! Any idea of the DT code for this course??

evolving_doors

clearview99 wrote: »

Thanks Armelodoe! Any idea of the DT code for this course??

DT248 , just knew of another teacher who did it, I think they dont run the introductory stage one level sometimes depending on all applicants experience etc.

rainbowtrout

clearview99 wrote: »

Thanks for this - what modules then would I need to apply for and complete? Is it doable considering I've only got LC HL Maths to my name i.e. none what so ever from undergrad??

The modules the TC look for are MST121, MS221 and M208. The first two are 30 credits each and M208 is 60 credits. OU operates slightly differently as a whole degree is 360 credits, where our degrees are 180 credits. So their credits are half the value in Ireland.

But you still end up with 60 credits of maths overall when you have the three modules complete. OU did an update on their modules in the last year or two so the module codes may have changed.