DOG DISASTER

EPointer=Birdss

So after a grand few days away got home today & left the dogs out.
All good until the pointer bitch keeled over & a fit! I mean full on epileptic type. She had one a about 6 weeks ago after getting a shock so I & the vet thought it could be that. Again today from over stimulation I suppose but what ever reason it is no use to me & she has that faulty gene.
I was hoping to get a pup from my dog at some stage so hense the reason for taking on a bitch. Those plans are now at a minimum postponed. Raging because I picked her for the size in the breeding & she is as solid as a tank so bar that great genetic material!!

So I am left with a few options!
A) Put her down & start over
Give her to someone (openly admitting the flaw that has no interest in breeding) as other than a minute every 6 weeks she's fine
C) Keep her & don't breed off of her

What would ye do?
Raging!

PS I wouldn't breed off of an obviously genetically flawed dog if your wondering as there is enough pr*cks out there doing that & I have no room for pets only in my kennels.

funkyjebus

If you don't want her as a pet, I'd have no doubt there are people who whouldl ove to give her a home to see out her days. There is a rehoming section in the animal & pets section, might be a start.

charlie10

brother had a boxer and the same thing hapened eventually hewas going so bad and so often he had to be put down,i would sell her to someone telling them the fault if that suited u and go again if its breeding u want start again just my two cents

steyrman

feck that is a kick in the nuts im sorry to here that about the bitch i was enjoying the tread its a tough one to call how fond for her are you i would be hard for me to part with her tbh . But as your plans were to breed her and get a pup from your own dog your dog your choice if you do decide to part with her i would have a decent home for her

NegativeCreep

Why would you even consider putting her down just because she's "no use to you" There's always the dogs trust or dspca. How that ended up as option number one is beyond me.

EPointer=Birdss

funkyjebus wrote: »

If you don't want her as a pet, I'd have no doubt there are people who whouldl ove to give her a home to see out her days. There is a rehoming section in the animal & pets section, might be a start.

In all honesty thats not an option for me as a working dog is a working dog & especially when highly bred, to cage an animal would be an existence more than a life. By cage I mean not use it for working no matter how much exercise it gets.
My old man used have the most loyal springer that would go everywhere with him until I put on my geat to go hunting. He would act like he never knew him & stik to my side to be brought blatantly ignoring him no matter what he did or said.
Hard to explain without sounding calous and I do not know if you shoot or not but it's like having a ferrari on Irish roads - a great thing to have & own but it would never get out of 3rd gear

Appreciate the response

EPointer=Birdss

NegativeCreep wrote: »

Why would you even consider putting her down just because she's "no use to you" There's always the dogs trust or dspca. How that ended up as option number one is beyond me.

Listen the pets forum is that way --->
I didn't post this there for that reason as there is a level of experience with working dogs on here I value. I am propably more concious a pet owner than the majority of perople over there & upset enough about the whole thing so I'm not going be judged by 'rabbit here' quotes. Also open your mind as I didn't rank the options by priority obviously.

I've already answered the pets option.

EPointer=Birdss

steyrman wrote: »

feck that is a kick in the nuts im sorry to here that about the bitch i was enjoying the tread its a tough one to call how fond for her are you i would be hard for me to part with her tbh . But as your plans were to breed her and get a pup from your own dog your dog your choice if you do decide to part with her i would have a decent home for her

Lets see how this pans out mate
Head is in a heap just yet but offer noted

TriggerPL

Hey bud

Sorry to hear that , but your right putting her down or re homing her is the only option breeding her will just pass it on like most idiots are doing with most breeds .

If giving her as a pet or working dog for someone that only does a few days a year I'd suggest spaying her so that she is not breed off . Passing on the problem .

It always heart breaking to hear of things like this .

Vizzy

Aw,that is just devestating.
I feel your pain,I really do.
Knowing your exacting standards and you attitude to always "do right by the dog" you must be gutted.

Obviously breeding is out of the question but would you be willing to work her if the problem could be medicated for ?
Reason I ask is that the brother has an English setter (not the guy in the picture the other night ) who is 12 now and should have been dead so many times from a heart problem its not even funny.He used be on specific heart tablets but now he just gets the odd Aspirin.
He still works him and even though the dog is almost deaf and half blind I can guarantee that he would put many a younger dog to shame.
Anyway I know you will do the right thing and again I'm gutted for you.
Viz

pheasntstalker

damn ep sorry to hear about ur dog lad:( its a bummer when something like that happens ,not an easy one ,look its a hard one but you are a decent dog man goin by ur videos and from ur dogs in them u do have their best intentions at heart you will how ever hard make the rite call,

mallards

Hi EP, is it definitely genetic? Haven't had one yet with it but there does seem to be a few other reasons from what I read. Any of the rest of the litter with it do you know?

johnny3

sorry to hear ur news englishpointer ...... u cud get her uettered and give her away to maybe a retird shooter than mite want a dog about d place . what woz she bread by as im an english pointer man

deeksofdoom

Had a friend that had a red and white setter with epilepsy, he had him on medication and he stabilised but eventually the fits got worse and he had to be put down. The was on the meds for about a year, think he was about 2 when he was put down. But he was having some right bad fits he would have the fit and be ****ed for days afterwards.

Your probably better off putting the poor thing down rather than have her suffer.

garv123

I wouldn't go panicking about putting the dog down yet just after having 2 fits 6 weeks apart. They could be two totally different unrelated reasons for getting fits just by fluke.

The dog could be developing diabetes and on the right medication could still serve her days as a great working dog.


I'd wait and see if she has more before even considering getting rid of her

EPointer=Birdss

My thoughts at present are either way I won't be buying a dog til Dec/Jan anyway. I could give her til then & see.
I wouldn't want to pass on a problem to anyone. If she sures up & has a good season without it becoming a repeat problem then a good shooting home for a lad not interesting in breeding is an option.
She's a nice little bitch & be a shame to put her down.
However it's horrible to watch & been helpless to do anything is tough.
I've read all the advice on line & meds & it all seems to be trial & error & not a cure.
I'll put up the breeding when I get a chance but fully intend on letting the breeders know as it could be in the lines somewhere

pheasntstalker

i just dont know what to honestly say to you lad, i havnt had that experience,and wouldnt wish it on any lad/lady:( i hope to god it will work out what ever discision u make, she may come rite, i hope she does, ill b rutting for her, fingers crossed for ya,regards p.s

J.R.

Sorry to hear about the dog - disappointing.......pity

garv123 wrote: »

I wouldn't go panicking about putting the dog down yet just after having 2 fits 6 weeks apart. They could be two totally different unrelated reasons for getting fits just by fluke.

The dog could be developing diabetes and on the right medication could still serve her days as a great working dog.


I'd wait and see if she has more before even considering getting rid of her

I wuld also wait to see how the fits pan out and see if they're regular.


Probably not related, but many years ago I had a 18 month old labrador.....no problems with him. The dog was crazy about hunting & lived for it......would watch every move I made when in the house if he saw me go near the shooting gear or gun.

I went to college & returned for a weekend after a month. Dog went mad when he saw me running around the place excited.......got a fit!!!

No fits after that until I returned from college again about three weeks later....same thing.....crazy with excitement.....got a fit. Father told me that they were the only two fits he got.....never got them when I was away???

Returned to college.....came home monthly......dog got excited, as usual.....but no more fits......never got them again.......lived a happy hunting life until he had to be put down at 15 years old.....crippled fom arthritis (seemingly from all the water work) & a tumor had also developed......was heartbreaking but the kindest option for the dog.

Haven't a clue how the fits developed or why they disappeared without treatment or medication.

Alchemist2

Very sorry to hear that EP... personally i would try give it away first but be upfront to whoever shows interest, dogs that have conditions can be costly to keep(had a gwp with an underactive thyroid) cost me a fortune then the poor bugger got cancer... try give it a few weeks if nobody is interested then you know what to do...

jap gt

my neighbor got a dog just like yours from a friend of his, he got him for nothing because the dog was getting the odd fit and he didn't have time to work her as he trained for trials, Anyway the neighbor had the dog a year and not one fit, the as soon as the season was in full swing she started getting fits, she would cross a ditch and collapse, flush a bird go to retrieve same thing everything that got the dogs heart going an extra bit brought on a fit, in the end the vet said she would have to remain a house dog, he tried it but the dog was pure depressed, eventually after a few months she got a fit and died only about 2.5

Now my neighbor is the kind of fella that hunts every Sunday but only for 2hrs max. broke his heart to see the dog die, he said if he had the chance again he would of had her put down when the fits started getting more regular.

If it was me i would get a few tests done, run her on for a few months and see, put if it turns out to be the worst case i would get her put down, as hard and all as it would be be harder to think the dog would suffer

EPointer=Birdss

You see if it is only an excitement thing which it could be then working wise she might be perfect for someone who doesn't wanna breed.
I Must ring the vet & ask is there any check that can be done to see if it's genetic or inherent in some way & not just a behavioral or excitement thing

dicky82

that's pretty rough going. just goes to show that picking pups really is a lottery. i would suggest letting her have this season to see how she goes (fit wise not work wise). if she comes good then maybe have her spayed and offer her to someone looking to get into pointers.

for the people who think putting down is cruel and uncalled for ep is being a realist. it costs the same money to feed a bad dog as a great dog and a dog that is suffering is a dog that should be granted kindness and put to sleep.

pheasntstalker

probabably the best thing, just for peace of mind, and with any luck maybe an answer and a solution for you and the dog, either way the best of luck and let us know what the outcome is and i for one am praying for good one for u and the dog(p.s not religous or anything but hate seen and hearing about dogs in bother) best of luck lad ,p.s

alan86

Seen it happen to 2 springers before one had to be pts cause the fits got so bad but the other one went to a working home where she go's out every sunday during the season and dose 2 hours and she is grand if she dose any more she will fit and in her time off she is a pet for the kids.So i suppose it depends on how sever she has it.drives me mad when people breed of dogs when they know they have the problem. But of luck anyway lad.

EPointer=Birdss

Lads rather than thank each post.
Thanks for all the comments, suggestions & well wishes.
It's much appreciated & by all means keep the opinions coming. It's only fellow hunters that can understand the reality of it all & not the Disney outlook.

As upsetting as it is it's the lads like DJFlawless that I truly feel for & the dog herself for been oblivious to it all but caught in the middle of the debate.

kermitpwee

Sorry to hear your misfortune mate, pity as you were giving her a great home, it is obvious you look after your dogs mate and have their welfare at heart. If your not in a panic I would give her to the end of the season and see how she goes. I feel for you, I really do, whatever you do it will break your heart. Good luck.

EPointer=Birdss

johnny3 wrote: »

sorry to hear ur news englishpointer ...... u cud get her uettered and give her away to maybe a retird shooter than mite want a dog about d place . what woz she bread by as im an english pointer man

Sire - Solid Gold uranos (Oscar in the trial world)
Dam - Hollys Jewell

I don't have the lineage page. Never got around to getting it.

charlie10

e-pointer i feel ur pain myself and the girlfriend went to cinema last night and put 8 week old springer pup in back hall with his cage and bed and food.he some how climbed up on cage got his back leg trapped and jumped off had to take him to vets at 12 last night but he is dragging the leg so things arent looking good,must call to vets at ten to see whats going happen.

i think if ur pointer is able to hunt and walk i would keep her and hunt her ,i said earleir put her to sleep but i was wrong ,dont think this lad will ever use the leg again:(

EPointer=Birdss

charlie10 wrote: »

e-pointer i feel ur pain myself and the girlfriend went to cinema last night and put 8 week old springer pup in back hall with his cage and bed and food.he some how climbed up on cage got his back leg trapped and jumped off had to take him to vets at 12 last night but he is dragging the leg so things arent looking good,must call to vets at ten to see whats going happen.

i think if ur pointer is able to hunt and walk i would keep her and hunt her ,i said earleir put her to sleep but i was wrong ,dont think this lad will ever use the leg again:(

We'll see Charlie. She was in yesterday getting bloods done & waiting on next set of results. The look of fear & joy when I called to collect her yesterday would melt your heart. That look of relief & utter elation to see a familiar face.
I'm torn between my head & my heart but then when you see the fits, it's horrible to watch her suffer! The the rest of the time she oozes life & hasn't a are in the world!

My springer did that to his paw in the gate of his pen fee years back but I was there. He got an awful fright & tried to bite me & all when I ran to set him free he was so scared. The same dog sh@ts himself if I look at him wrong & would share his food with you! He was ok but any longer & he'd of done damage.

I hope the pup is ok lad. If they were muts in the street they'd live blessed lives!!
As an auld boy I know says "Nothing will happen a bad one!!" never a truer word said in my own experience!

charlie10

back from the vets and all is well she said she x rayed him and gave him anti inflammaotrys and he is mint now.

on a side note i was telling a lad your story and he has a cocker bitch who is five and gets them fits too and she is a brill dog to hunt so he never put her down. he said she is spoiled rotten and has a good quality of life outside of the fits so didnt see the point in putting her down

EPointer=Birdss

charlie10 wrote: »

back from the vets and all is well she said she x rayed him and gave him anti inflammaotrys and he is mint now.

on a side note i was telling a lad your story and he has a cocker bitch who is five and gets them fits too and she is a brill dog to hunt so he never put her down. he said she is spoiled rotten and has a good quality of life outside of the fits so didnt see the point in putting her down

Probably so young his leg was supple & bones not fused.
Coupled with no weight or muscle strength he dodged a bullet. Good to hear!
I found metacam a very good anti-inflammatory for dogs.

Does your mates dog get them regularly?

dicky82

just curious to know if you have been back in touch with the breeder ep? if so what sort of an experience have you had with them? hope your dog's test results come back with something conclusive to take you out of limbo at least.

EPointer=Birdss

dicky82 wrote: »

just curious to know if you have been back in touch with the breeder ep? if so what sort of an experience have you had with them? hope your dog's test results come back with something conclusive to take you out of limbo at least.

I can't find the number at all only the address.
I'll write a letter once I have a clear diagnosis altogether & can copy some of the results etc if I have them.

I would be cautious buying off either parent going forward but suspect the dams side as the sire's would be very visible.

Waiting game until next week now

cruisedub1

EPointer=Birdss wrote: »

So after a grand few days away got home today & left the dogs out.
All good until the pointer bitch keeled over & a fit! I mean full on epileptic type. She had one a about 6 weeks ago after getting a shock so I & the vet thought it could be that. Again today from over stimulation I suppose but what ever reason it is no use to me & she has that faulty gene.
I was hoping to get a pup from my dog at some stage so hense the reason for taking on a bitch. Those plans are now at a minimum postponed. Raging because I picked her for the size in the breeding & she is as solid as a tank so bar that great genetic material!!

So I am left with a few options!
A) Put her down & start over
Give her to someone (openly admitting the flaw that has no interest in breeding) as other than a minute every 6 weeks she's fine
C) Keep her & don't breed off of her

What would ye do?
Raging!

PS I wouldn't breed off of an obviously genetically flawed dog if your wondering as there is enough pr*cks out there doing that & I have no room for pets only in my kennels.

First have the dog spayed so she cant breed , then decide either keep her as a pet or find someone who will take her knowing she has a health problem .

Double Barrel

EP
Dam!
You have put a lot of work into that dog, hopefully this article may give you some solace.
Make sure you read all the way to the end.

http://www.gundogmag.com/2010/09/23/health_nutrition_gd_seizuredog_200804/

Traumadoc

Is she having hypoglycemia?

http://pets.webmd.com/dogs/dog-hypoglycemia-low-blood-sugar


"Hypoglycemia can occur in adult hunting dogs as a consequence of sustained exercise and depletion of liver glycogen. It is important to feed these dogs before hunting and to increase the protein content of their diets."

JustAThought

There's been a lot of support if changing diet for fits; apparently some of the additives can cause fits. Worth looking up.

dicky82

i just read the whole article. i won't say what my conclusion is until ep himself has commented on it. all i will say is the author must have a very understanding missus.

mallards

I was reading a thing there in one of the hunting magazines that a dog eating a small number of slug pellets can start fitting from the chemical in it. With all the rain
this summer, apparently a lot more people are using it to keep slugs at bay. Could be a reason for it?
Mallards

Dalken

garv123 wrote: »

I wouldn't go panicking about putting the dog down yet just after having 2 fits 6 weeks apart. They could be two totally different unrelated reasons for getting fits just by fluke.

The dog could be developing diabetes and on the right medication could still serve her days as a great working dog.


I'd wait and see if she has more before even considering getting rid of her

This is true, my springer took two fits while hunting three years ago. Vets suggested her diet was too rich, I feed my dogs very high protein feed during the season, right or wrong I feed her now just Star dog Food and she's right as rain.

It's responsible of you noot to breed from her but if she's a decent dog you should have no bother finding a man who will take a chance on her..and if she's going to go out why not out in the hunting field doing what she loves..thats the way I wanna go someday:)

EPointer=Birdss

Double Barrel wrote: »

EP
Dam!
You have put a lot of work into that dog, hopefully this article may give you some solace.
Make sure you read all the way to the end.

http://www.gundogmag.com/2010/09/23/health_nutrition_gd_seizuredog_200804/

A very well constructed article DB.
It's different in that the signs started in an older dog. A course of meds seemed to be hit & miss but he saw the dogs days out.
If she were a dog I didn't want to breed from then without doubt she'd get all the treatment practical. As it stands if it's once every month (TBD) then it's minimal all things said & done.

Hopefully the bloods might identify something like the pellet chemical or an infectious type ailment.

I'm 99% confident it's not glucose related as all that showed up fine so far & have see it in Springers before & it's different in that they were shagged afterwards not perfectly fine like she is.

Still undecided but not in a rush to make up my mind either as I wouldn't be buying another pup that needs training this time of year anyway.

On a side note a hen pheasant got out of my run during the week but has been hanging around. Used the pointer bitch to stalk her & move her like a collie herding sheep back into the pen without a lead as either of the other 2 dogs would have milled her! For a hyper dog when there's birds around she's a different animal altogether!!
Let's see what the remaining bloods say

EPointer=Birdss

JustAThought wrote: »

There's been a lot of support if changing diet for fits; apparently some of the additives can cause fits. Worth looking up.

For pig iron I'm gonna change the nuts & see.
Can only give so much meat etc that I can get my hands on as otherwise I'd put her on a full meat type diet to rule out any additives

dicky82

ep just wondering how the dog is getting on and if there have been any conclusive results? also if you've had any correspondence with the breeder.

EPointer=Birdss

dicky82 wrote: »

ep just wondering how the dog is getting on and if there have been any conclusive results? also if you've had any correspondence with the breeder.

Well Dicky. Thanks for asking.

Bloods came back clear so ruled out metabolic causes.

Next steps are to look at infectious causes via a spinal tap costing 1000 quid before meds. Risk is if it is a intra cranial issue like epilepsy the needle can kill her. To that end I have decided not to persue it.

After that its a MRI costing another 1000 which only confirms a diagnosis after which I would be left with no choices from a working point of view.

As I cannot justify the risk or financial outlay I am giving her the season to see if she grows out of it which the vet thinks she could. Since the last update there haven't been any repeats & she is now in her first heat cycle so i'm wondering was that something to do with it. Had her out 2 hours on Sunday evening & met a few birds & no trouble. Even brought her up by the release pen - she put up about 30 pheasants like pigeons so I thought if that didin't flick a switch who knows. She ran for 2 solid hours in wet country & didn'y slow down so the engine is good.

I remain optimistic & will give her the season & see

TriggerPL

EPointer=Birdss wrote: »

dicky82 wrote: »

ep just wondering how the dog is getting on and if there have been any conclusive results? also if you've had any correspondence with the breeder.

Well Dicky. Thanks for asking.

Bloods came back clear so ruled out metabolic causes.

Next steps are to look at infectious causes via a spinal tap costing 1000 quid before meds. Risk is if it is a intra cranial issue like epilepsy the needle can kill her. To that end I have decided not to persue it.

After that its a MRI costing another 1000 which only confirms a diagnosis after which I would be left with no choices from a working point of view.

As I cannot justify the risk or financial outlay I am giving her the season to see if she grows out of it which the vet thinks she could. Since the last update there haven't been any repeats & she is now in her first heat cycle so i'm wondering was that something to do with it. Had her out 2 hours on Sunday evening & met a few birds & no trouble. Even brought her up by the release pen - she put up about 30 pheasants like pigeons so I thought if that didin't flick a switch who knows. She ran for 2 solid hours in wet country & didn'y slow down so the engine is good.

I remain optimistic & will give her the season & see

It sounds like she has snapped out of it . I hope she works out for ya .

If your anything like myself it alway in the back of you mind .

But your right not to spend that sort of money , your heart can out rule your head with dogs sometimes and end up costing you thousands .

EPointer=Birdss

TriggerPL wrote: »

It sounds like she has snapped out of it . I hope she works out for ya .

If your anything like myself it alway in the back of you mind .

But your right not to spend that sort of money , your heart can out rule your head with dogs sometimes and end up costing you thousands .

Well this is it trigger. I cud have a few litters bought for the same money!

V true about in your mind - I'm hyper sensitive to every twitch now.

dicky82

have you changed her food as you said you were going to? could this have helped?

EPointer=Birdss

dicky82 wrote: »

have you changed her food as you said you were going to? could this have helped?

I've added more meat & bones as best I can.
Once new house sorted I'll be able to control all that much better as between 2 stools at present.

EPointer=Birdss

Well lads.
The news is bad.
Had to out down bitch yesterday.
She had 4 fits in a week & her behaviour was becoming very odd.
She was getting obsessed with eating. More so than normal. Fighting with other dogs who wouldn't touch her. Was like they knew she was sick as it wasn't a dominance thing.
She was also starting to do her own thing & was like she didn't understand more than wasn't listening. I've been around dogs long enough to know the difference!
She was starting to pine away & I couldn't risk her biting anyone. After the fits she'd be disorientated for 5 to 60 minutes which was getting longer. In this time she'd bite out & run & hide. Banging into things.

I gave her every chance & tried different foods etc to no avail. She was starting to fit in the box at night too which proved there was no catalyst like light, excitement level etc

My thinking is she had a tumor that was putting pressure on the brain & was getting worse as time went on.
Had to out her out of her misery

dodderangler

Sorry t hear this mate
Always hard to Let them go but best thing to do was put her out of her misery

dicky82

shame that it has turned out like this. but you've made the right decision. are you going to have her sent for an autopsy? (probably last thing on your mind).