Axa introduce black box scheme to enable you to have lower insurance premiums

delad

Axa have introduced a scheme where you can opt to have a black box fitted to your car for free which enables you to get 20% off your insurance premium. The box records whether you are driving within speed limits and various other aspects of your driveing such as anticipation, stopping force and cornering etc. If your driving is better than a performance target in their scoring system then you get an additional 10% of your insurance premium for the year.

This is great news for competent, safe drivers. We're finally getting closer to having insurance premiums based on your driving ability rather than based on your age and sex.

Unfortunately the scheme is ony initially available to 17-24 year olds but it will hopefully be rolled out to everyone soon enough.

http://www.thejournal.ie/axa-insurance-drivesave-578293-Aug2012/

Alanstrainor

Feck that for a game of cowboys! I'd rather not have some insurance company monitoring my every move thank you very much! And only 20%!?! What a joke!

djimi

Didnt someone else try something similar a few years ago? I seem to remember one of my friends having a tracker on his car when he was learning to drive. How did that work out for them?

Im also not convinced it will help to prove a lot; there are an awful lot of terrible drivers out there who dont drive above the speed limit or screech around corners...

delad

Alanstrainor wrote: »

And only 20%!?! What a joke!

you're complaining about getting free money?!!?!?! unbelievable

awec

This post has been deleted.

djimi

delad wrote: »

you're complaining about getting free money?!!?!?! unbelievable

Its not free money though is it? What happens if you stray above the speed limit once in a while of they percieve that you are driving in a manner which they do not approve of; does this mean they will start to load your premium?

Sesshoumaru

delad wrote: »

This is great news for competent, safe drivers. We're finally getting closer to having insurance premiums based on your driving ability rather than based on your age and sex.

Unfortunately the scheme is ony initially available to 17-24 year olds but it will hopefully be rolled out to everyone soon enough.

http://www.thejournal.ie/axa-insurance-drivesave-578293-Aug2012/

LOL!

Yes that's super! I'm sure you felt no small sense of amusement when you posted that Why not just have one chip implanted in your brain? It could cover your driving and general behavior. Down in the pub for a few hours? That'll be a few extra euro on your health insurance premium!

Viper_JB

I'd love to see the contract that states what they can and can't do with the information they get off of it.

delad

awec wrote: »

He's not getting free money.

It's the insurance company taking less money off him.

Yes which is the same thing. If you are paying 500 euro for insurance but have the option of paying 400 euro simply for having a black box installed in your car, I would view that 100 euro as free money.

antodeco

Quinn Insurance had this before. I remember they asked would I get it installed, I told them to feck off!

Interestingly, you can drive 1 foot behind the car in front of you (assuming they are going the same speed limit) and you will still get your discount.

markc1184

djimi wrote: »

Didnt someone else try something similar a few years ago? I seem to remember one of my friends having a tracker on his car when he was learning to drive. How did that work out for them?

Im also not convinced it will help to prove a lot; there are an awful lot of terrible drivers out there who dont drive above the speed limit or screech around corners...

It was AXA that had it. Didn't last too long. I had it in my car and they ended up taking it out after 4 months because it was constantly malfunctioning. I never heard anymore from them about it.

delad

djimi wrote: »

Its not free money though is it? What happens if you stray above the speed limit once in a while of they percieve that you are driving in a manner which they do not approve of; does this mean they will start to load your premium?

Its a points based system which you can view your score online, straying a few mph above the speed limit a few times won't have much of an effect but if you are doing it on a consistent basis or going well above the speed limit then you will be punished.

Sesshoumaru

delad wrote: »

Its a points based system which you can view your score online, straying a few mph above the speed limit a few times won't have much of an effect but if you are doing it on a consistent basis or going well above the speed limit then you will be punished.

Welcome to the future, private companies helping to enforce laws - woohoo! Maybe we could employ some Omnicorp ED-209's in the Traffic Corps

BronsonTB

delad wrote: »

Its a points based system which you can view your score online, straying a few mph above the speed limit a few times won't have much of an effect but if you are doing it on a consistent basis or going well above the speed limit then you will be punished.

Do please let us know how you get on with it delad & how much effect it has on your renewal premium the following year...That'll really be the test with a real life senario. Theory is one thing but practice can be completely different. I can see it being taken up by some drivers if it actually makes a real difference in the pocket without effecting how they drive.

Heroditas

delad wrote: »

and various other aspects of your driveing such as anticipation, stopping force and cornering etc. If your driving is better than a performance target in their scoring system then you get an additional 10% of your insurance premium for the year.

This is the bit I have trouble with - it's far too vague and open to interpretation.

5500

One of my mates had it before and as mentioned it was with axa, called traksure iirc. I think the offer at the time was your premiums were fixed price over say 3 years and after the 3 years they have you a 5year NCB providing you weren't setting off alarm bells drifting in tesco carparks.

I would rather pay the full whack that put up with this.

http://www.kulfoto.com/pic/0001/0025/b/JQ43q24432.jpg

wonski

As it is only available to young drivers, some of them can go for it, as 20% for them can be as much as 400E. Nothing to complain about really.

galwaytt

djimi wrote: »

Didnt someone else try something similar a few years ago? I seem to remember one of my friends having a tracker on his car when he was learning to drive. How did that work out for them?
...

...plus, we now have t'internet...........and apps, etc etc.

Look at VAG com etc, now everywhere, hacked and all. How long for some enterprising s/w student, with one, to figure out how to hack it ? If a Cork 15 yr old hacked Apple's iPod, then...........

And, does it use a SIM card/GSM to send info to AXA ? If so.......

1. Data Protection Act.....
2. See George's stolen S4 thread.........and the jammer's............

Either way, there'll be a workaround for it eventually. It's just human nature.

monkeypants

delad wrote: »

awec wrote: »

He's not getting free money.

It's the insurance company taking less money off him.

Yes which is the same thing. If you are paying 500 euro for insurance but have the option of paying 400 euro simply for having a black box installed in your car, I would view that 100 euro as free money.

AXA are a private enterprise and are only interested in making profit. They may reduce costs, but their costs, not yours. Somewhere in the not too distant future, they see this scheme increasing their profit, which will have to be done at someone's expense. May not be yours, but it will happen.

murphym7

My main concern with this is the accuracy of the GPS system within it. Many times I ahve just updated my GPS to find it was displaying a lower speed limit than the road I was driving on actually was - anyone else experience this? If something like this did occur, what is the recourse. A lenghty process of prvvoing you were not actually speeding?

They woudl want to be giving me my insurance for free before I would consider this spy kids tool.

Popoutman

No way in hell would I submit to this, and 20% is nowhere near enough for me to sell my every move, my daily patterns etc to my insurance company who certainly do not have my welfare at heart.

Unfortunately it's the next logical step to cash in on people the fail to see the problems with putting their every move up on FB, especially when not getting paid for it.

If it were forced, it would get installed, and I'd fo an locate it in the car and then I'd isolate it with a faraday cage around it so it does not see GPS signals, and cannot phone home. Couple that with the odd trip through a microwave to ensure that the onboard memory can't be used..

I'd really like to see the contract that they would put in place and what penalties the insurance company would allow, to cover the driver when the driver's logs are leaked/sold/cracked and available on the net. Imagine the danger with retrospective logging possibilities, either with private individuals or agents of the State..

keithclancy

Popoutman wrote: »

No way in hell would I submit to this, and 20% is nowhere near enough for me to sell my every move, my daily patterns etc to my insurance company who certainly do not have my welfare at heart.

Unfortunately it's the next logical step to cash in on people the fail to see the problems with putting their every move up on FB, especially when not getting paid for it.

If it were forced, it would get installed, and I'd fo an locate it in the car and then I'd isolate it with a faraday cage around it so it does not see GPS signals, and cannot phone home. Couple that with the odd trip through a microwave to ensure that the onboard memory can't be used..

I'd really like to see the contract that they would put in place and what penalties the insurance company would allow, to cover the driver when the driver's logs are leaked/sold/cracked and available on the net. Imagine the danger with retrospective logging possibilities, either with private individuals or agents of the State..

Don't need to hack it, just get a GPS jammer, they're all the rage over here.

http://gadget.brando.com/car-cigarette-anti-gps-system_p00963c024d001.html

Leave it in the rear cigarette lighter socket and the problem is solved.

Your not modifying anything either so they have no way of proving its your fault.

Any GPS device within 5-10 meters just can't get a lock

By faraday cage, I believe you meant cover it in tinfoil

Popoutman

Though I'd like to be able to use my satnav

As far as I'm aware, the use of GPS jammers is a big no-no from the regulatory point of view, and both the supplier and the user can have hefty fines levies by the relevant Govt. dept, but I'm not sure which one would cover it. There are also implications for air traffic control.

Faraday cage - stainless steel mesh, attached to a ground point on the car. Tinfoil might not be good enough and a ferrous metal would be a better choice.

not a chance in hell lads
I havent got any accidents, let that be enough

delad

BronsonTB wrote: »

Do please let us know how you get on with it delad & how much effect it has on your renewal premium the following year...That'll really be the test with a real life senario. Theory is one thing but practice can be completely different. I can see it being taken up by some drivers if it actually makes a real difference in the pocket without effecting how they drive.

I'm outside the age range and don't even drive at the moment, planning to buy a second hand nissan leaf in 2014 though. So hopefully by then this scheme will be available to everyone.

ShadowHearth

So let me get this right:

A kid jumps out in front of your car. Kids does not see you and keeps running!
You have two options:

A) slap the brake pedal, which will save child's life and get a phone call 5 mins later from AXA with something like this: " omg!!! We just so you stoping very aggressively!!! You maniac!!!! That's it!!! Premiums go +1000%"!!!!!
I am not ****ing loosing that 20%!!!!!

delad

monkeypants wrote: »

AXA are a private enterprise and are only interested in making profit. They may reduce costs, but their costs, not yours. Somewhere in the not too distant future, they see this scheme increasing their profit, which will have to be done at someone's expense. May not be yours, but it will happen.

Yeah they see this scheme increasing their profits because more people will use them as opposed to their competitors, while at the same time poor drivers who are more likely to be involved in an accident are less likely to go with them, so its win win for axa. They increase their revenue while at the same time get rid of drivers who are statistically more likely to be involved in a crash, so they're net profit margin increases as well.

delad

ShadowHearth wrote: »

So let me get this right:

A kid jumps out in front of your car. Kids does not see you and keeps running!
You have two options:

A) slap the brake pedal, which will save child's life and get a phone call 5 mins later from AXA with something like this: " omg!!! We just so you stoping very aggressively!!! You maniac!!!! That's it!!! Premiums go +1000%"!!!!!
I am not ****ing loosing that 20%!!!!!

no once off hard braking will not affect your premiums, it will be clear it was an emergency brake

eth0

100e for your privacy and having Big brother raise your premium if you havnt been driving like a gobsh1te like they want you to

delad

eth0 wrote: »

100e for your privacy and having Big brother raise your premium if you havnt been driving like a gobsh1te like they want you to

No not 100e, I just used the 500 euro as an example. Its 20% off your premium immediately and then a further 10% off your premium if you meet the performance target.

The tin foil hate brigade is out in force in this thread. Honestly no one cares that you drove to the cinema at 7pm on tuesday night, I hate to break it to some of you but you're not that important. If you's want to worry about how the government is tracking your movements maaaan, then you should realise that all your movements can already be tracked by you carrying a phone, not to mention the amount of info that could be gotten from your text messages sent and your use of the internet.

Jimbob 83

Why would i pay for this when the proof of my driving ability is in my lack of claims.

The real question here is where is this magical 20% saving coming from and why isn't it being used to reward people who go over 5 years no claims instead of keeping them in limbo ?

delad

Jimbob 83 wrote: »

Why would i pay for this when the proof of my driving ability is in my lack of claims.

The real question here is where is this magical 20% saving coming from and why isn't it being used to reward people who go over 5 years no claims instead of keeping them in limbo ?

What do you mean by "why would I pay for this"? You're not paying for anything, its free installation, you're simply getting 20% of your premium back. The 20% saving is coming from them being able to separate safe drivers from bad drivers, and thus charge the save drivers less, the way it should be. Statistically a lot of bad drivers could go years without any incidents, this device gives them a better idea of who the good drivers are and who the bad drivers are.

There are more safe drivers out there than bad drivers, so now that there is an insurer that recognises and rewards safe drivers, more drivers are likely to choose axa over their competitors hence their revenue will go up.

When I started driving I paid a huge insurance premium based soley on my age and sex, despite the fact I was a very safe driver. Thats a ridiculuous situation so thankfully its coming to an end, and the idiots who tailgate and speed will finally get what they deserve.

Jimbob 83

Explain how a driver is "Bad" when they are not having accidents or getting penalty points ?

Also if they can afford to install the devices free and give an extra 20% discount it just goes to show how much of a ride people are being taken for as it is, my dad hasn't had an accident in 30+ years driving and he still pays €550 a year on insurance on a diesel avensis which is 20 euros more than i pay on a hot hatch, it makes zero sense tbh

Sesshoumaru

keithclancy wrote: »

Don't need to hack it, just get a GPS jammer, they're all the rage over here.

http://gadget.brando.com/car-cigarette-anti-gps-system_p00963c024d001.html

Leave it in the rear cigarette lighter socket and the problem is solved.

Your not modifying anything either so they have no way of proving its your fault.

Any GPS device within 5-10 meters just can't get a lock

By faraday cage, I believe you meant cover it in tinfoil

That gadget is quite cool. Do people use it to disable car insurance tracking devices? I can't really think of any other use. Maybe truck drivers are tracked by their companies?

keithclancy

Sesshoumaru wrote: »

That gadget is quite cool. Do people use it to disable car insurance tracking devices? I can't really think of any other use. Maybe truck drivers are tracked by their companies?

Lease Cars from work mainly

Scortho

I would certainly allow them to fit this in my car for 20% off. 200 quid saved for the sake of driving the same as I do anyway!
Unfortunately my axa quote was twice that of Liberty:rolleyes:

eth0

delad wrote: »

No not 100e, I just used the 500 euro as an example. Its 20% off your premium immediately and then a further 10% off your premium if you meet the performance target.

The tin foil hate brigade is out in force in this thread. Honestly no one cares that you drove to the cinema at 7pm on tuesday night, I hate to break it to some of you but you're not that important. If you's want to worry about how the government is tracking your movements maaaan, then you should realise that all your movements can already be tracked by you carrying a phone, not to mention the amount of info that could be gotten from your text messages sent and your use of the internet.

I dont take my phone with me everywhere and i often have it switched off. The law in general is getting more restrictive on the ordinary person by the day, the only good thing is that they dont actually bother enforcing most of the illegal things people do every day.

Its not the kind of society I look forward to. In england a while back this old couple got a hassling because they drove past some protest and were picked up by some big brother system. Not nice.. the govt and companies should learn how to leave people alone more often

Mr Simpson

Not a hope in hell I will be applying to get this. Aviva gave me a nice discount for driving around normally for an hour with a driving instructor, I'll stick to that.

Normally I'm not a paid-up member of the tin foil hat brigade, but this is a little much. I drive motorways a bit and tbh I rarely stick to 120, I don't want my insurance company to be able to see that at the push of a button.

Jimbob 83

If they are givings savings and installing for free they obviously plan to use it as a means to put premiums up

Leprechaun77

A 20% discount is a complete joke. They should be paying drivers to have these units installed. The information they would get from this is worth a fortune. It's somewhat like a Tesco card when it was brought out.....the sheep say "well we get discounts and points for our shopping....that's better than getting nothing". My opinion on this is that the information they get from looking at your shopping habits mean they build up a priceless database of information which inevitably allows them to make more money from you.

At the end of the day they are a private company out to make as much money as possible....they are not interested 'helping' young drivers.

Scortho

Leprechaun77 wrote: »

A 20% discount is a complete joke. They should be paying drivers to have these units installed. The information they would get from this is worth a fortune. It's somewhat like a Tesco card when it was brought out.....the sheep say "well we get discounts and points for our shopping....that's better than getting nothing". My opinion on this is that the information they get from looking at your shopping habits mean they build up a priceless database of information which inevitably allows them to make more money from you.

At the end of the day they are a private company out to make as much money as possible....they are not interested 'helping' young drivers.

By charging you less than they normally would, it results in more money in my pocket with this device, than without. If my quote from axa was as competitive as my renewal I'd have taken it.

In my case it works out at 200 odd euro. I'd happily let some company examine the way I drive for this amount. I have nothing to hide. My no claims or penalty points highlights this already. So I continue driving as i do while I have 200 quid more to spend.

Now if only Liberty would start this.
:cool:

Jimbob 83

Scortho wrote: »

By charging you less than they normally would, it results in more money in my pocket with this device, than without. If my quote from axa was as competitive as my renewal I'd have taken it.

In my case it works out at 200 odd euro. I'd happily let some company examine the way I drive for this amount. I have nothing to hide. My no claims or penalty points highlights this already. So I continue driving as i do while I have 200 quid more to spend.

Now if only Liberty would start this.
:cool:

Yet you assume your premium will stay the same, how many € do you think they will try to add for every time you are 1-2km/h over a zoned speed limit ?

delad

Jimbob 83 wrote: »

Explain how a driver is "Bad" when they are not having accidents or getting penalty points ?

Luck. A driver who tailgates could go his whole life without causing an accident, in the same way you could flip a coin 10 times and get 10 tails. Its unusual but it can happen.

Jimbob 83

delad wrote: »

Luck. A driver who tailgates could go his whole life without causing an accident, in the same way you could flip a coin 10 times and get 10 tails. Its unusual but it can happen.

Funny when i went up for renewal i don't remember seeing "You feeling lucky punk?" as a question.

Luck is just timing and above par extrasensory and subconsious reaction, it's a genetic thing nothing more

Reg'stoy

monkeypants wrote: »

AXA are a private enterprise and are only interested in making profit. They may reduce costs, but their costs, not yours. Somewhere in the not too distant future, they see this scheme increasing their profit, which will have to be done at someone's expense. May not be yours, but it will happen.

Since when are insurance companies not allowed to make profits, I don't see too many people accusing Apple of being thieving bas**rds.
Most of us thankfully don't need the insurance we pay for but those premiums go up and down based on risk assessment. I pay more because of my job as I drive at unsocial hours.

Jimbob 83 wrote: »

Explain how a driver is "Bad" when they are not having accidents or getting penalty points ?

Also if they can afford to install the devices free and give an extra 20% discount it just goes to show how much of a ride people are being taken for as it is, my dad hasn't had an accident in 30+ years driving and he still pays €550 a year on insurance on a diesel avensis which is 20 euros more than i pay on a hot hatch, it makes zero sense tbh

I would assume based on the figures you give that your Father is approaching or past 60 years of age. Your and his premiums are based on age as much as cars driven.

I really don't get the vitriolic attiude to this scheme. My father gets a reduction in his home insurance because he has a monitored alarm. A friend of mine was refused health insurance because he is a fat bas**rd and so is a health risk. He dieted but suffered the indignity of a nurse going to his house to weigh him and he will be weighed at his next renewal date.

I'd personally love to see these boxes fitted to taxi's and mr white van drivers vans. Newly qualified drivers, which lets be fair are young are greater insurance risks as reflected by their premiums, why not have a scheme to allow them get some reduction on those premiums.

As for the big brother scare mongering, do these people disable the cookies on their laptops. Yes tesco cards are there to increase profits so what!

Jimbob 83

I just think it is a thinly veiled excuse to charge people higher premiums tbh.

But i guess not wanting a computer to log every throttle blip or braking pattern makes me a bad driver with "something to hide"

My da is 53 im 29 he drives a 2012 Avensis D4D i drive a 2007 Focus ST, i guess his car's value is a factor.

Scortho

Jimbob 83 wrote: »

Yet you assume your premium will stay the same, how many € do you think they will try to add for every time you are 1-2km/h over a zoned speed limit ?

They'd only increase it at renewal. However there is nothing to stop me from shopping around.

If you drive in a satisfactory manor/tick all there boxes the premium gets reduced by 30%. If you don't you still get the 20% reduction which in my case means id be 200 quid better off for a tiny black box in my car.

They'd only increase it at renewal.
However there is nothing to stop me from shopping around. Which I'd be doing anyway. If they still offer the best value Ill go with them. If they don't I'll go somewhere else.

Jimbob 83

Obviously they will only change price at renewal, that goes w/o saying, when i look for a policy i don't look for teh cheapest i look for the one with the best cover personally

Leprechaun77

Reg'stoy wrote: »

Since when are insurance companies not allowed to make profits, I don't see too many people accusing Apple of being thieving bas**rds.
Most of us thankfully don't need the insurance we pay for but those premiums go up and down based on risk assessment. I pay more because of my job as I drive at unsocial hours.



I would assume based on the figures you give that your Father is approaching or past 60 years of age. Your and his premiums are based on age as much as cars driven.

I really don't get the vitriolic attiude to this scheme. My father gets a reduction in his home insurance because he has a monitored alarm. A friend of mine was refused health insurance because he is a fat bas**rd and so is a health risk. He dieted but suffered the indignity of a nurse going to his house to weigh him and he will be weighed at his next renewal date.

I'd personally love to see these boxes fitted to taxi's and mr white van drivers vans. Newly qualified drivers, which lets be fair are young are greater insurance risks as reflected by their premiums, why not have a scheme to allow them get some reduction on those premiums.

As for the big brother scare mongering, do these people disable the cookies on their laptops. Yes tesco cards are there to increase profits so what!

In relation to the discount for a monitored house alarm. I don't believe this is in the same ballpark as a monitored gps unit which gives information and behavioural analysis on an individual basis....who the person is, age, roads driven, speeds. A house alarm is not as 'personal' IMO.

In relation to the refused health insurance. I don't know what type of insurance you are talking about but standard vhi health insurance is accessible to everyone. A waiting period is required for pre existing conditions. Other indirect health policies which are underwritten on a risk basis may turn someone down for being overweight/high blood pressure. In this instance there is a statistical risk that this morbidly obese person is a major health risk (to get turned down for these you need to be a big big unit or have uncontrolled high blood pressure). This may compare to the higher risk young driver getting a higher premium. Would you deem it acceptable for this person to wear a heart/BP monitor to get this health cover, and if his BP goes too high his premium goes up?

In relation to the store cards, yes everybody uses them including my own family but it kind of freaks me out when I get vouchers in the post to entice me back into buying products I gave up buying months earlier. they know what I buy, when I buy it, when I don't, what brands I buy, what type of family unit I have. Yes, it is an ingenious way of increasing profits and targeting customers better, but my initial point stands that this info is worth more than the crappy discounts that are offered. I think it is a good idea with the gps units, but only at a proper discount rate.

Scortho

Jimbob 83 wrote: »

Obviously they will only change price at renewal, that goes w/o saying, when i look for a policy i don't look for teh cheapest i look for the one with the best cover personally

I'm the same. I wanted a sheet that said I was insured to drive on the road. I didn't want windscreen cover. I'd rather take that risk

Liberty quoted me 850 as a 20 year old male driving a 1.2 2002 polo. 2 years no claims in my own name and 1 years full license. no penalty points etc.

FBD offered me insurance for 750. However there policy wouldn't give me third party extension. Liberty did. So I went with Liberty so I can drive the 3 litre merc in the driveway as well!