30Mbps broadband in every home by 2015

bren50c

From Silicon Republic:
http://www.siliconrepublic.com/comms/item/28983-more-than-half-of/

Today at the Croke Park Conference Centre, Communications Minister Pat Rabbitte, TD, launched Ireland’s National Broadband Plan, laying out targets to achieve at least 30Mbps broadband in every home and business in Ireland by 2015...

Sounds great but will it materialize? With the government track record on broadband its hard to be optimistic. I was waiting forever for 3Mbps.

MBSnr

Every home eh...? A min. of 30Mbps you say? Really? In 3 years? To every home in Ireland no matter how rural or remote? in 3 years? Really?

Some still can't get more than 28Kbps dialup after 12 plus years of the 1st DSL exchange going live.

But in 3 years they're going to get 30Mbps minimum?

Ah Pat ... you're in dreamland again (again)...

I'm going to buy a hat. I doubt I'll have to eat it though.

yuloni

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bren50c

Wow, tell me they're not basing this on 4g. I missed that part of the article. All hope is lost...

MBSnr

Yeah - I wasn't sure if they were saying it was a 4G rollout for rural areas or that they would use the money from the 4G spectrum sell off to fund the physical infrastructure upgrades. Probably both. 4G for rural up to 30MBps and physical upgrades for towns and villages to bump the speed up further.

“Ireland’s population is more broadly dispersed than that of many other countries so reaching the target will require State investment to encourage the private sector to offer services which would not otherwise make commercial sense,” explained the Minister.

So if it's 4G then the Gov. will use our taxes to pay the mobile operators to put 4G capabilities on to their masts. The operators aren't going to do it unless bribed. There's limited partial coverage with 3G on the masts locally in my rural area at present anyhow. So why do I sense a limited return on investment for the operators and therefore no likelihood of the Gov. getting any (of our) money back...?

cookie1977

bren50c wrote: »

Wow, tell me they're not basing this on 4g. I missed that part of the article. All hope is lost...

It will have to be based on LTE. I cant see the networks stumping up the money to wire up the country. It wouldn't be profitable. The minister may not realise it or understand it but yes I'd imagine these speed achievements will be primarily relied upon from LTE services.

yuloni

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cookie1977

Condi wrote: »

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Well without scratching at old sores, if we hadn't sold off the telecom eireann infrastructure they could be doing all of that right now.

bren50c

cookie1977 wrote: »

It will have to be based on LTE. I cant see the networks stumping up the money to wire up the country. It wouldn't be profitable. The minister may not realise it or understand it but yes I'd imagine these speed achievements will be primarily relied upon from LTE services.

Although I thought the idea was that by nature rural broadband can't be profitable and so the government will be providing funds since the networks are unwilling to invest. Surely they've seen that 3g didn't work so well with nbs.

Sponge Bob

Read the small print > http://www.dcenr.gov.ie/NR/rdonlyres/1EA7B477-741B-4B74-A08E-6350135C32D2/0/NBP.pdf

"There can be no State intervention in areas covered by the National Broadband Scheme until the expiry of the contract in August 2014. The Government intends that any new initiative will be procured and ready to rollout by that date;"

It means "we will have spent the money on Labour voting urban areas by August 2014 and there will be nothing left for rural areas by then". M'kay!

starviewadams

Same old shíte from the Govt.I'm sure the term 'smart economy' was used hundreds of times in this announcement too.

bren50c

It means "we will have spent the money on Labour voting urban areas by August 2014 and there will be nothing left for rural areas by then". M'kay!

Are you telling me I shouldn't trust a politician when he gives me a timeline???:D
I am now waiting for Pat Rabbittes Mars Rover landing draft plan which is due to kick off just before he leaves office

yuloni

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Sponge Bob

Condi wrote: »

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Not sure about Germany, there may be such an operator and it may be industry owned. It was recommended in Ireland too. See:

http://www.siliconrepublic.com/comms/item/22339-ireland-needs-to-move-fast

To achieve these targets would mean creating a shared radio access network (RAN) owned by one company (RANCO) that will install the required masts in locations operators don’t view as viable today, or they could provide existing masts to the RANCO in return for equity.
IrelandOffline argues it would be much cheaper to supply 100pc of national wireless coverage on one network.


“This network will require 4,000 cells on day 1 and up to 10,000 cells within two years. Operators can compete with their own network in cities and large towns, which is where they want to compete. Geographically, 80pc of Ireland is a burden for any mobile operator and they make their money in the remaining 20pc.


“It is desirable that (the) RANCO is to be given the Universal Service Obligation in areas where ADSL is not available or programmed to be delivered and also in SAC/SPA and National Parks where population is low and where planning constraints are onerous.

DoubleBogey

You don't need to live in rural Ireland to get crappy broadband speeds. I would say 95% of the country has sub standard broadband, that is including the areas that apparently get "up to" 24mb. I'm in the fibre optic rollout trial area and guess what, I can't get it.

The government are going to do jack sh!t to fix this. We need more competition in the private sector. UPC are leading the way, but if you can't get UPC you're sh!t out of luck and will be lucky to get above 5mb regardless of what your package says you are getting "up to". And the Magnet/Eircom rollout seems to have fissled out.

Give private companies like Virgin, BT etc tax incentives to come over here and lay down cables. The only thing we need from the government is a regulator to ensure they relay the roads when they're finished.

PogMoThoin

DoubleBogey wrote: »

Give private companies like Virgin, BT etc tax incentives to come over here and lay down cables. The only thing we need from the government is a regulator to ensure they relay the roads when they're finished.

We don't need BT, we have the ESB, they already have a network delivering power to every single house in the country

Cheerful Spring

The Irish government needs to spent this money wisely and not let telecom companies use this money to invest in urban areas, so to keep down their costs.

This money is to be invested in rural Ireland only and the work if possible should commence immediately.

DSL should be brought to homes that can not get it currently.

And fibre smaller cabinets should be bought and be located in rural villages just outside our major cities and towns. A 25 miles radius should be the starting point to get done first/ so all villages outside majors towns and cities should have fibre by 2015.

Cheerful Spring

PogMoThoin wrote: »

We don't need BT, we have the ESB, they already have a network delivering power to every single house in the country

Maybe ESB doesn't want to be involved with the telecoms industry or vice versa. Who knows how practical this plan is? Has any government talked about this before i haven't heard them talking about this before.

dre_jspeed

That's no good to me I already have 60Mbps.

Sorry couldn't resist

John mac

pat rabbit says it will be via mobile ..:rolleyes: (Today fm )

starviewadams

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

The Irish government needs to spent this money wisely and not let telecom companies use this money to invest in urban areas, so to keep down their costs.

This money is to be invested in rural Ireland only and the work if possible should commence immediately.

DSL should be brought to homes that can not get it currently.

And fibre smaller cabinets should be bought and be located in rural villages just outside our major cities and towns. A 25 miles radius should be the starting point to get done first/ so all villages outside majors towns and cities should have fibre by 2015.

Why should the money be spent in rural Ireland only?I know plenty of people living in the centre of Dublin,our capital city,that can't get broadband and have to rely on mobile dongles.

If people decide that they want to live in one off houses in the middle of the countryside then they should at least have to pay something towards the considerable cost of getting wired broadband delivered to them.

yuloni

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PogMoThoin

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

Maybe ESB doesn't want to be involved with the telecoms industry or vice versa. Who knows how practical this plan is? Has any government talked about this before i haven't heard them talking about this before.

The ESB already have a fibre network, they are already a major player in the Irish broadband market.
http://www.esbtelecoms.ie/infrastructure/national_fibre_optic_network.htm

yuloni

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Cheerful Spring

starviewadams wrote: »

Why should the money be spent in rural Ireland only?I know plenty of people living in the centre of Dublin,our capital city,that can't get broadband and have to rely on mobile dongles.

If people decide that they want to live in one off houses in the middle of the countryside then they should at least have to pay something towards the considerable cost of getting wired broadband delivered to them.

Why do you think?

Fibre will never come to rural Ireland without state help and lets be real your likely to see fibre in your area much sooner than i ever will. Its very unlikely you be waiting long for that upgrade if you live in Dublin city.

skydish79

John mac wrote: »

pat rabbit says it will be via mobile ..:rolleyes: (Today fm )

And we are going to get 30mb on mobile network or will it be "up to" 30mb

Is it possible to provide 30mb on mobile networks?

PogMoThoin

skydish79 wrote: »

And we are going to get 30mb on mobile network or will it be "up to" 30mb

Is it possible to provide 30mb on mobile networks?

Yes, in a lab to a single user

Cheerful Spring

Condi wrote: »

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EU gave a more realistic target deadline the year of 2020 to see those kind of broadband changes in Ireland. The Irish government deadline is more optimistic the year 2015

Work on this changes can only commence when they map out and have much clearer picture as to who will need state intervention. NBS areas are excluded until Aug 2014 that's mean these areas are not likely to see any of this changes by 2015

How will they manage to bring 30 meg to all parts of rural Ireland than by 2015? Have they not failed a set target already?

Spectrum is the future because the cost of installing cable and fibre to the home for every rural village in Ireland is too great for this country to afford right now. The Irish Government is just being realistic with their analysis. Higher speeds on Wifi is better than slow speeds using DSL.

350 million is lot of money but if you want a country wide fibre nework it will cost a few billion.

Cheerful Spring

skydish79 wrote: »

And we are going to get 30mb on mobile network or will it be "up to" 30mb

Is it possible to provide 30mb on mobile networks?

http://www.siliconrepublic.com/comms/item/26285-ireland-takes-one-step-clos

This is what there trying to do, but its all next year and beyond stuff.

Cheerful Spring

PogMoThoin wrote: »

The ESB already have a fibre network, they are already a major player in the Irish broadband market.
http://www.esbtelecoms.ie/infrastructure/national_fibre_optic_network.htm

There not providing this service to residential homes are they?

aindriu80

I have a 8mb line with Eircom at the moment. I am really happy with it (no cap, constant speed!) although I would really like to pay less than the €55/month. With 30mbs broadband in every home by 2015 will prices come down for existing services?

yuloni

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sean2012

4G services will not be rolled-out in england until 2013/14 following a planned auction of 800MHz and 2.6GHz frequencies
there is no fu**ing way we will have 4g here in ireland for everyone within 2 years even if they were to replace 2g and 3g with 4g it wouldent solve any of problems with lack of service there simply is no masts in those areas aswel as that 4g is 100mb bandwidth, which is only a 20mb connection max
once again or communications minister is talking thou his ass

fibre is cheaper than copper, why not take down the copper phone lines, sell the copper, one fibre could hold all the communications of this country if it was looped everwhere, instead of thousands of send and receive twisted pairs

Sponge Bob

The €175m is what the Rabbitte sez the gubbirnment will spend. We can also draw down some money from the EU 'Digital Agenda' kitty which is €10bn odd.

Frankly the best way to spend most of it on anational Scale is on 'middle mile' fibre. IE fibre from large towns to small towns, mast sites and the more densely populated rural and urban areas ( both).

As for the final mile...let the locals dig in their own FTTH. Most of the cost would be civils not 'telco' gear. As Condi said focus evey community employment scheme on it for a year or two.

sean2012

eircom should bring fibre to all the fixed line exchanges to replace all the copper and from there outwards, maybe they could issue anyone with a fixed line a meteor wireless phone, in the meantime, eircom dont want to hang fibre on there polls they could direct bury, duct it, or box it cheaper no danger easyer to access and fix on the surface, if civals where to connect there on ftth from the exchanges then they shouldent have to pay line rental, upc charge 100e a month for 100mb bandwidth thats 1200 a year

Cheerful Spring

Condi wrote: »

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350 million if spent right will no doubt will improve broadband infrastructure within this country. But the plan is still depend on the say of Telecom providers who will be providing half of the 350 million. They in turn will only invest in areas were they will expect to get some percentage of return back for their investment. What areas they'll pick to upgrade only time will tell on that.

Interest in broadband isn't a universal thing in Ireland. Many people of an older age have know interest in broadband and many have not used the internet to do anything. Asking them to contribute money to something they have never used might not be so easy.

The media for example today the longest interview i heard about this was 4 minutes. RTE TV 1 or 2 minutes and wasn't that informative. There is know sense of urgency about this, its vital, that it most be implemented immediately. There is a strong possibility this project will not get off the ground till 2014

jimmycrackcorm

The government should be treating this the same way as the rural electrification scheme in the early days of the state.

Lay down the fibre. Absolutely do not let ENet run it otherwise it'll cost you 15k to get connected or you can save 10k of that if the previous building Tennant had the fibre connected and you can see it in your comms room, but you just need to plug it in...

Seriously, before the government spends this money, they should be asking why the MAN has so much fibre running laid out in provincial towns, running past your or my house and we cannot get connected.

funnyname

Poor Backhaul seems to be the be major issue for wireless (FWA that is) providers in the country, surely part of the €175m from the govt should be used to improve this so that rural residents will be able to avail of 30mb+ sooner rather than later.

I've mentioned these guys before but to me they seem to be the poster boys for what can be done with FWA. Ok the contention is higher than most other providers but when you look at the Speed (Down/Upload) per Contention Ratio it is still very good and at a super price.

http://www.nwewn.com/prices.php

MagicSean

I can see this Croke Park agreement being as successful as the last one.

NIMAN

Not a hope of every house having min 30meg by 2015.

I'd say as a country we will be lucky to have this standard by 2025, unless there is some amazing technology breakthrough.

If it is in my 2015 then it will have to come via satellite or something, cos not a hope in hell of my 2meg line being 30meg in 3 years.

Didn't the last scheme like this (NBS?) flop miserably? This will be the same.

bealtine

NIMAN wrote: »

Didn't the last scheme like this (NBS?) flop miserably? This will be the same.

No...according to the DECNR this scheme is wonderful and a great success. Everybody now gets a minimum speed as set out in the guarantees, so much so that they have declared that everybody has "basic broadband" now and that we are ahead of the Digital Agenda for Europe targets.


Now where did I leave my augmented reality pills?

This scheme will be more of the same...

demanufactured

aindriu80 wrote: »

I have a 8mb line with Eircom at the moment. I am really happy with it (no cap, constant speed!) although I would really like to pay less than the €55/month. With 30mbs broadband in every home by 2015 will prices come down for existing services?

You have a fair usage policy.

ThePhantomYoda

This is probably a load of BS... There is still too many places in Ireland that are STILL relying on mobile broadband and I'm sure dial-up too, they would need to sort that out before making "plans" to give 30mb internet to everyone here.

We're not as advanced as you'd think.

iMuse

ThePhantomYoda wrote: »

We're not as advanced as you'd think.

I don't think anyone else thinks we are advanced at all apart from the Dept of Communications.

bealtine

Sponge Bob wrote: »

On a high level the big battle will be to get Dark Fibre and Low Latency to the provinces...ie to allow a technology company to locate its servers and high value product outside Dublin.

Locating this technology outside Dublin is extremely difficult to justify nowadays except for latency insensitive basic ecommerce and mail servers or overnight cloudy backup/synch stuff.

Why would country people need any sort of low latency bandwidth? There's nothing out there...just a few cows

/me puts away DECNR hat now

Sponge Bob

Originally Posted by iMuse View Post
I don't think anyone else thinks we are advanced at all apart from the Dept of Communications.

The Dept of Communications simply lies about how things are. If they told the truth the country would collapse. When the Dáil comes back they will produce the normal pack of lies answers for Pat Rabbitte starting in a fortnight...just watch.

You will find that the Department of Enterprise (IDA) knows a lot more about high end networks than the whole of comms do and I hoped comms would come under Enterprise as a 'desk' to deliver advanced communications strategies instead of the pathetic excuse machine it became under Dempsey and especially Ryan and with nobody higher transferred than an Assistant Principal from the old comms department....the higher ups are toxic people with toxic attitudes.

Put enterprise people in the Principal Officer and Assistant Secretary roles. The Department wants managed services outside of Dublin and that's all. Shortsighted second grade rubbish suited to Armenia ...that other 'Internet Capital or Europe' .

On a high level the big battle will be to get Dark Fibre and Low Latency to the provinces...ie to allow a technology company to locate its servers and high value product outside Dublin.

Locating this technology outside Dublin is extremely difficult to justify nowadays except for latency insensitive basic ecommerce and mail servers or overnight cloudy backup/synch stuff.

Anything sensitive to latency or synch delays must go to Dublin...or Amsterdam/London where facilities are cheaper. The Department of Communications, naturally, thinks that this is not a problem.

sean2012

if the wireless network was all 4g in this country,it still wouldn't be nearly good enough for what we are paying for it, it was meant to be used for phone communications and light internet use, as it is we are paying for lower speeds than were getting, most of the the networks have huge traffic at peck times, the 4g masts will be broadcasting at higher frequencies and longer distances so there will be more traffic on there network
whats the point investing in 4g now when 5g will be here next year and there will still be a delay in broadcast time for example streaming a game on wireless there would be a delay, compared to fibre which there wouldn't be any delay

jimmycrackcorm

sean2012 wrote: »

if the wireless network was all 4g in this country,it still wouldn't be nearly good enough for what we are paying for it, it was meant to be used for phone communications and light internet use, as it is we are paying for lower speeds than were getting, most of the the networks have huge traffic at peck times, the 4g masts will be broadcasting at higher frequencies and longer distances so there will be more traffic on there network
whats the point investing in 4g now when 5g will be here next year and there will still be a delay in broadcast time for example streaming a game on wireless there would be a delay, compared to fibre which there wouldn't be any delay

It'll be 2020 before 5g is deployed meaningfully

aindriu80

demanufactured wrote: »

You have a fair usage policy.

Well they never got back to me telling me how much to use. I play games, download and browse but nothing massive. I think the price in Ireland for broadband is probably higher than any other E.U country.

demanufactured

aindriu80 wrote: »

demanufactured wrote: »

You have a fair usage policy.

Well they never got back to me telling me how much to use. I play games, download and browse but nothing massive. I think the price in Ireland for broadband is probably higher than any other E.U country.

Tis in the Ts and Cs Ted .

aindriu80

demanufactured wrote: »

Tis in the Ts and Cs Ted .

Thats true but I wasn't bothered by it. I just hope for cheaper broadband in the future