Appealing Warning in Soccer Thread

Roger Sterling

Hi there,

In accordance with the Dispute Resolution process I would like to appeal a warning that was given to me this afternoon Wednesday 29/08/12.

Here is the allegedly offending post:

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=80496588&postcount=4746

TheDoc wrote: »

Exactly, Hatton is someone whose weight flaunders regularly. If not on a very strict training regime he pudges, its not a bad thing. Its not a reason to slate a player, its just accepting that it can happen with some players and its not as easy as " just stay fit".

The reason Hatton's weight explodes when he's not training is because he's a borderline alcoholic.

I have discussed this issue with the moderator in question GavRedKing and done my best to plead my case with him. The reason given for the warning was "Personal Abuse/Slander." However he upholds his original decision and has advised me to take the case forward if I wish to do so.

My Appeal:

First of all the conversation should be put in context. A discussion was ongong about how some players are less good as others at looking after themselves in the off season and return to training out of shape for the new season. The case of Hatton was brought up - a boxer notorious for putting on weight between fights. In making the post above I was pointing out that it was Hatton's heavy drinking more than anything that contributes to his weight gain.

I used the word alcoholic in this case because Hatton has a well documented drink problem. He has signed into clinics in the past and diagnosed by doctors with a problem, as well as depression and drug use.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2010/sep/13/ricky-hatton-rehab-boxing-sport

http://www.abs-cbnnews.com/sports/09/13/10/hatton-suffering-depression-drink-problem

His drinking (and drug taking) have contributed to his being stripped of his boxing licence in the past.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/boxing/9027165.stm

He admits himself to having a drink problem.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-2023678/Ricky-Hatton-leaves-Whisky-Mist-looking-worse-wear-lads-night-out.html

I would contend that if he himself admits to having this problem then the post cannot surely be seen as abusive. Indeed this was exactly the thought process I went through prior to making the post. Indeed I chose the word "alcoholic" on purpose as to me it is not a negative word. I have family experience of alcoholism myself and would never use the word in a derigatory or critical way. Anyone who openly admits to having a problem like Hatton has in the past is to be admired not derided. i understand it is important in cases such as this to determine the poster's intent in what they say - hand on heart I was not being critical of him when I said what I said, I was simply pointing out what has been reported from numerous reliable news sources. I even was careful to use the word "borderline" rather than state it as an out and out fact.

Bottom line and in conclusion - I feel being punished for stating what is a fact and something a person openly admits himself is neither slanderous nor abusive. If I had said "the reason George Best/Paul Mc Grath had shorter careers than they should is because they were/are alcoholics" - would anyone have batted an eyelid? Perhaps Hatton's problems are less well documented than theirs or are less well known to a soccer fan moderating a soccer forum - but I don't see the difference.

In closing I would like to say that GavRedKing was most polite and coutreous in our dealings by PM and my appeal here is no reflection on him as a mod in general. I think he's a sound poster and generally moderates excellently. On this occasion I disagree with his judgement and would like this yellow card removed from my record.

Regards

Roger.

Black Swan

I will be conducting the Cmod review of this DRP. Please forward all PMs exchanged between you and the moderator to me by PM at your earliest convenience. Please don't post them here unless asked.

Roger Sterling

PM's have been sent there.

Thanks

Roger

Black Swan

Received. Please be advised that we are volunteers with commitments outside of boards. This review process may take from a few hours to a few days. Your patience will be appreciated.

Roger Sterling

Black Swan wrote: »

Received. Please be advised that we are volunteers with commitments outside of boards. This review process may take from a few hours to a few days. Your patience will be appreciated.

Let there be no panic at all.

Thanks for your time

Roger

Black Swan

Please be advised that I have had an opportunity to review this DRP, related PMs exchanged between Roger Sterling and the moderator, the content and context of the thread where posting occurred, the Soccer Charter, and consulted with Soccer moderators.

Yellow Carded Post:

Roger Sterling wrote: »

The reason Hatton's weight explodes when he's not training is because he's a borderline alcoholic.

• The Roger Sterling post had been officially reported by our Soccer community as abusive, drawing mod attention to his posting behavior on the thread.
• The mod reviewed post and issued a yellow card warning for “Personal Abuse.”
• PMs had been exchanged between moderator and Roger Sterling, satisfying the first stage of the dispute resolution procedure.
• Actioning mod consulted with Soccer co-mods, and they agreed with the yellow card.
• Although only one post had been yellow carded, a similar content post occurred shortly after the one yellow carded, which could also have been actioned as well, but had not been; consequently there were no grounds to suggest harshness in moderation. 2nd post:

Roger Sterling wrote: »

He is actually. My friend went on the lash with him once, said he was an absolute gent but a frightening drinker.

Soccer Charter, “Policy on Abuse:”

Frisbee wrote: »

The rules on abuse apply to more than just boards users, and cover players/managers/fans/clubs/sports personalities as well. You may consider certain terms to be a bit of banter, but any nickname or phrase that is even vaguely derogatory may be considered as abuse for the purpose of the charter....

The mod team reserve the right to apply their judgment as to a users intent when posting, and issue bans and/or infractions for abuse as necessary.

Calling someone both a “borderline alcoholic,” compounded 3 minutes later with the emotive and very opinionated “frightening drinker” post would seem to certainly meet, if not exceed the “vaguely derogatory” charter condition justifying a yellow card warning for personal abuse.

Citing third party media sources in an attempt to justify the “borderline alcoholic” comment after being yellow carded may have required the moderator to “apply their judgment as to a users intent” when reconsidering the action, but the later very opinionated and derogatory “frightening drinker” comment confirmed that the original yellow card had been justified. Consequently, I lack compelling evidence that would allow me to overturn this yellow card; therefore it stands.

Please be advised that the Sports Cmod review has been completed. At this stage of the dispute resolution process Roger Sterling has 2 possible choices: (a) he may accept the yellow card, learn from it, and move on; or (2) he may request an Admin review.

Roger Sterling please advise your choice.

Roger Sterling

Id like this to be reviewed by an Admin please.

Thanks for your effort and speedy response Black Swan.

Roger.

Black Swan

REQUEST TO ADMIN:

Please review this DRP per Roger Sterling's request.

Asiaprod

Hi Roger Sterling. TBH I really do not see any reason to overturn this yellow card. The facts have been present very clearly:

"Calling someone both a “borderline alcoholic,” compounding it 3 minutes later with the emotive and very opinionated “frightening drinker” would seem to meet the “vaguely derogatory” charter condition justifying a yellow card warning for personal abuse."

Therefore it stands. I would learn from it, and move on.

Roger Sterling

Asiaprod wrote: »

Hi Roger Sterling. TBH I really do not see any reason to overturn this yellow card. The facts have been present very clearly:

"Calling someone both a “borderline alcoholic,” compounding it 3 minutes later with the emotive and very opinionated “frightening drinker” would seem to meet the “vaguely derogatory” charter condition justifying a yellow card warning for personal abuse."

Therefore it stands. I would learn from it, and move on.

Fair enough. Thanks for your time everyone.