Vokera Gas Boiler Problem

dubmark74

I have a Vokera Gas Boiler 16E. I switched it on yesterday for the first time in a while. The boiler fires up and i can see the flame. A few seconds later the flame cuts out, then a few seconds later it starts again. This continues until i swith the boiler off. Water pressure is OK at 1 bar. The fact that it fires tell me the water pressure, pump, fan is OK (i think).
I am an engineer so i can do some basic work on these things. I don't want to pay a fortune due to a simple problem. I suspect a sensor. Any help here appreciated.

sullzz

You might be an engineer but are you rgi registered , if not its illegal to work on any gas appliance , contact somebody from the list of registered rgi contractors who will come out and diagnose the problem , if it was a simple problem you wouldn't be asking here what the problem is.

Mutha

What he said

dubmark74

sullzz wrote: »

You might be an engineer but are you rgi registered , if not its illegal to work on any gas appliance , contact somebody from the list of registered rgi contractors who will come out and diagnose the problem , if it was a simple problem you wouldn't be asking here what the problem is.

I was wondering how long it would take for someone to say this. Are you a member?
I didn't say i was going to work on a gas appliance. I was asking if anyone had any ideas what the problem could be. I would then be a bit wiser if talking to one of the rgi rip off people. Also, the problem could lie in the central heating (water) system and it would not be illegal to work on this.

anuprising

dubmark74 wrote: »

I would then be a bit wiser if talking to one of the rgi rip off people.

please provide evidence of 'rip off ' or 'rgi rip off people ' please .

sullzz

dubmark74 wrote: »

I am an engineer so i can do some basic work on these things.

So you didn't say you were going to work on it no??????

And yes i am rgi registered.

anuprising

anuprising wrote: »

please provide evidence of 'rip off ' or 'rgi rip off people ' please .

In fairness you only have to read half my posts for evidence:D.


OP you may feel a bit put out about being asked if your RGI but the truth is boilers can be easy to work on but they are also easy to mess up leading to the odd drama/death, hence decent RGI's trying to establish what your at.

Get a RGI in, a good RGI will be able to prove his points and be happy to;) as for telling you what's wrong on the Internet there's a couple of things I could point to but 5 minutes in front of the boiler would cover it better.

GASMANN

dubmark74 wrote: »

I have a Vokera Gas Boiler 16E. I switched it on yesterday for the first time in a while. The boiler fires up and i can see the flame. A few seconds later the flame cuts out, then a few seconds later it starts again. This continues until i swith the boiler off. Water pressure is OK at 1 bar. The fact that it fires tell me the water pressure, pump, fan is OK (i think).
I am an engineer so i can do some basic work on these things. I don't want to pay a fortune due to a simple problem. I suspect a sensor. Any help here appreciated.

it could be a few things, compromised flue, blocked heat exchanger, no heating zone open yada yada.. you didnt really give a lot of information.
a GOOD boiler man (who is a rgi) will probably tell you within 5 minutes of examining the appliance.

i dont know why people keep saying "im an engineer" and assuming that means its ok to work on whatever parts of a boiler they think fall under their engineering remit.
the fact is this - are you a rgi? or are you not a rgi? if you are work away, but if not YOU CANNOT WORK ON A GAS APPLIANCE.


oh, im a member.

dubmark74

sullzz wrote: »

So you didn't say you were going to work on it no??????

And yes i am rgi registered.

What i said was i did not want to get ripped off for something simple. For example, a neighbour of mine recently called out a plumber as his boiler did not fire. He paid 100 euro and all that was required was a water top up. If it is something like this i could obviously do it myself. If it required opening the boiler up i'd leave it someone better qualified.
Its not just RGI's who are trying to protect their monolopy. Many trades are the same. I can understand, there's a recession out there. The internet is a nightmare for you. People sharing problems and experiences and fixing basic problems themselves. But you have to see it from our view, we're saving a fortune.

anthonyos

im a member too but can say that the boilers know more about me than i know about them at times...

dubmark74

GASMANN wrote: »

it could be a few things, compromised flue, blocked heat exchanger, no heating zone open yada yada.. you didnt really give a lot of information.

Thanks for this, i should have given more info, anything specific?

a GOOD boiler man (who is a rgi) will probably tell you within 5 minutes of examining the appliance.

And charge how much? This is my point.

i dont know why people keep saying "im an engineer" and assuming that means its ok to work on whatever parts of a boiler they think fall under their engineering remit.
the fact is this - are you a rgi? or are you not a rgi? if you are work away, but if not YOU CANNOT WORK ON A GAS APPLIANCE.

I can, it just may not be legal, an electrician would tell me i cannot do electrical work, but i have often done so.

Robbie.G

Everybody gets very wound up over the rgi issue.Yes it is illegal to take the cover off a gas appliance if you are not rgi reg but this is a public forum and people are
asking and been giving info on repairs.
Everyone got different costs and overheads if you are afraid of paying dearly when you ring someone ask them their charges

GASMANN

dubmark74 wrote: »

Thanks for this, i should have given more info, anything specific?


And charge how much? This is my point.


I can, it just may not be legal, an electrician would tell me i cannot do electrical work, but i have often done so.

to be honest with you dubmark74, you dont sound like the type of person who id like to help so good luck with the boiler, im off to play monopoly.

dubmark74

dubmark74 wrote: »

What i said was i did not want to get ripped off for something simple. For example, a neighbour of mine recently called out a plumber as his boiler did not fire. He paid 100 euro and all that was required was a water top up. If it is something like this i could obviously do it myself. If it required opening the boiler up i'd leave it someone better qualified.

So you want the info and we trust you not to kill yourself or yours, sounds a bit silly, but every RGI on here will happily talk you through the basics as they spend hours doing it for others.

dubmark74 wrote: »

Its not just RGI's who are trying to protect their monolopy. Many trades are the same. I can understand, there's a recession out there.

I worked 1 day in two weeks but I still help others, it's not all about the money;)

dubmark74 wrote: »

The internet is a nightmare for you. People sharing problems and experiences and fixing basic problems themselves.

No, I think you'll find it's RGIs supplying the answers and experiences, I think you have to except RGI's are the ones who should be policing information.

dubmark74 wrote: »

But you have to see it from our view, we're saving a fortune.

Try seeing it from mine, a person with more arrogance than experience can kill themselves or others by working on gas appliances as I have personal experiences of, so any lack of information to someone like you isn't always based on a financial reason but fighting a rear action guard against natural selection.

I had a blocked flue recently where the land lord decided to leave the cover off to keep the boiler going, another one where the collars werent fitted on the flue, another one where the wrong flue was fitted and it pulled away from the boiler, another one with a conservatory built round the terminal, another one that went on fire as the overheat was bridged out blah,blah blah... I hate chancers because they tend to survive it's the kids that get it, carry on with your fiddling.


I left out my favourite, a repair on a leaking gas pipe using a Brillo pad and cello tape, for anyone reading this I wouldn't advise this method as it doesn't work and the keen DIYer who did do this was left with nowhere to live(like his neighbours)and a surprised and embarrassed look that was added to by the lack of eyebrows and fringe.

dubmark74

OK, i'm sorry if i upset all the RGI's out there.

As i said, i had simply asked if anyone had experienced the same problem as myself so i could do some basic checks before i decided if i nedeed to call out someone. I don't think theres anything wrong with this.
The first reply is 'call a RGI and i happen to be one'. I help people with many problems across the world in forums like this. I obviously understand gas is dangerous and as i said a number of times i would not work on the gas side of things (even though i work with gas systems in my job).
So thanks for all your help, i'll move to some other forums which are not so protective of their knowledge.

sullzz

I didn't say call an rgi and i happen to be one , you asked if i am one so i said yes i didn't say pm me for a quote or anything like that , its the rgis like that care about the safety of the public by not giving "tips" to any joe soap to try and repair their gas boiler , granted you might be more than capable of safely testing the components and reparing as required but how do we know that and if you are not rgi registerd/trained it is illegal for us to tell you what to do , so i think it is a goid idea that you go to another forum and chance your arm there

dubmark74

dubmark74 wrote: »

The first reply is 'call a RGI and i happen to be one'.

nope, not a very good one, the first thing I have is duty of care and any advise I give on a public form has this in mind, if you had stated you were a RGI at the start you may have got more love from me and others via a PM, the fact you see this as a concern about money proves you don't fully understand the environment in which you work and the dangers involved.

I happily help and promote good working practise with fellow RGI on a daily basis and my phone is always on, I never know when it's me that will need a dig so i put out what i hope to receive, to say this is a protected industry is just silly.

dubmark74

dubmark74 wrote: »

(even though i work with gas systems in my job).

I can put out a match, don't make me a fireman:D

Moonbeam

I usually have to get Vokera out to fix my Vokera boiler. My plumber said it often works out cheaper but it is never cheap:(

shane0007

Gee whiz, you just don't get it!!!!
By you working on a gas boiler even the simplest of actions, you are not qualified nor trained to recognise the whole picture of the correct operation of the boiler. For example, by removing the cover and firing the boiler, this may alleviate the underlying problem, but leak poc's into the room and kill you and your family with CO poisoning. Guys here help people on a daily basis, saving them hundreds of euros but what we will not do is assist you to break the law or assist you in killing somebody. We are also doing this FOC and giving endless hours of our time here.

Perhaps a better attitude may have resulted in a better response and you maybe also better off finding your answers somewhere else.

BTW, changing a plug or wiring a socket is not illegal for non-qualified electricians but working on a gas appliance/installation is for non-RGI's!

shane0007

gary71 wrote: »

nope, not a very good one, the first thing I have is duty of care and any advise I give on a public form has this in mind, if you had stated you were a RGI at the start you may have got more love from me and others via a PM, the fact you see this as a concern about money proves you don't fully understand the environment in which you work and the dangers involved.

I happily help and promote good working practise with fellow RGI on a daily basis and my phone is always on, I never know when it's me that will need a dig so i put out what i hope to receive, to say this is a protected industry is just silly.

Gary, this guy is NOT an RGI.

Moonbeam

Moonbeam wrote: »

I usually have to get Vokera out to fix my Vokera boiler. My plumber said it often works out cheaper but it is never cheap:(

I think this is a good way for insuring against being ripped off mostly, but if it's a cheap component or installation error it expensive and they are not the knights in shining armour they should be, I advised a couple of OAPs to get them in after being ripped of by their installer on a 2 1/4 year old mynute he , they payed the €250ish but then had to pay for a new heat exchanger that had caused the problem in the first place due to a design fault:mad:

shane0007

shane0007 wrote: »

Gary, this guy is NOT an RGI.

i'v had two cans of red bull makes me jumpy, grumpy and ruins my speed reading.

dubmark74

shane0007 wrote: »

Gee whiz, you just don't get it!!!!
By you working on a gas boiler even the simplest of actions, you are not qualified nor trained to recognise the whole picture of the correct operation of the boiler. For example, by removing the cover and firing the boiler, this may alleviate the underlying problem, but leak poc's into the room and kill you and your family with CO poisoning. Guys here help people on a daily basis, saving them hundreds of euros but what we will not do is assist you to break the law or assist you in killing somebody. We are also doing this FOC and giving endless hours of our time here.

Perhaps a better attitude may have resulted in a better response and you maybe also better off finding your answers somewhere else.

I hope everyone has calmed down a bit today.

Just to reiterate what i said numerous times, i was not planning on working on the boiler itself, so i was not breaking the law or causing danger to me or my family (less of the drama), i think you're all over reacting. As you know there are many components in central heating system outside the boiler.

Although not a RGI, i have worked on combution systems for many years so i totally understand the safety aspects.

I posted the exact same initial post on another (UK) forum and got a number of suggestions (some relevant some not) which i checked, e.g. vent radiators, topup water, check zonal valves, check flue outside for obstructions, etc. a few people suggested it could be the PCB. So today i can go to a super RGI safe in the knowledge that i have done the basic checks and by showing some basic knowledge of the system, there may be less chance of being ripped off.

I think the reaction of you guys towards me says a lot about you and only confirms what is being said on many forums. You say you help people all the time yet no one could give some simple pointers. I'd encourage other people to check other forums outside Ireland before resorting to this cartel.

dubmark74

dubmark74 wrote: »

I posted the exact same initial post on another (UK) forum and got a number of suggestions (some relevant some not) which i checked, e.g. vent radiators, topup water, check zonal valves, check flue outside for obstructions, etc. a few people suggested it could be the PCB. I'd encourage other people to check other forums outside Ireland before resorting to this cartel.

You still don't get it, I am from London where I worked most of my life, the idea of working on your own appliance is less at the forefront of people's minds as gas has a greater respect, you will get more love from a UK forum because they are not used to fruitloops going at the boiler themselves, the things i'v seen in Ireland make me nervious when advising on a public forum, sorry.

You may feel more empowered by your new friends on the UK forums but whatever they told you just wasted your time as you still need a RGI out which was very evident by the information you gave in your first post in which you probably diagnosed the fault(or area), you see it as a cartel :pac:I see it as a duty of care and I'm using my experiences from working in this country to filter information in a safe way and I get to choose what's safe:eek:, I have more than once been asked to put a boiler back together after a fruitloop has gone at it with a screwdriver and the manual.

You say you are a engineer good for you but would you let someone work in your environment with information you have given them in the hope they know what their doing, but then imagine you do have safety concerns:eek: then to be accused of being money motivated for not giving up the info.

Give my love to the "other forums";) we're just misunderstood( especially by those who have a little bit of information which we all know is a dangerous thing:D)

dubmark74 wrote: »

I hope everyone has calmed down a bit today.

I'm very calm thank you, a tad grumpy maybe, I don't care if somebody hurts/kills themselves as I see it as natural selection, my concerns are for the family members, flat mates, tenants who have to pay the price for a bit of fiddling.

Villaines

In fairness, most householders have to look to the golden pages for their rgi.

Most people just want to understand the problem, and the required solution,not actually fix it. Anyone who does that learns quickly that they can't do it.

A tradesman can name his price with a black hole.

To the OP- ask for a no obligation visit. If you don't like the price get another opinion. You don't get ripped off with a few quotes.

DGOBS

Ok, took a holiday for a few days, and you guys are tearing strips of each other, and I missed it all!!


OP, what your experiencing is 'normally' a pretty simple problem to solve (and should be easily sorted on a service call by a good RGI technician)

Just to cover, there is other possibilities including a 'rotten through' flue that would have to be checked, but in my experience it is normally just a serviceable sensor that requires attention during a normal boiler service (BTW, it's one of the things they dont check on that '15 minute special that should be done!)

sullzz

Villaines wrote: »

To the OP- ask for a no obligation visit. If you don't like the price get another opinion. You don't get ripped off with a few quotes.

So get the first plumber / rgi out to spend his time travelling out and diagnose the problem , then say ok i might get back to you , then ring a couple of other guys and , for arguments sake lets say the boiler needs a gas valve , ask them how much they would charge to fit a gas valve as you have already bought one yourself in heatmerchants , yeah sounds fair.

dubmark74

Villaines wrote: »

Most people just want to understand the problem, and the required solution,not actually fix it. Anyone who does that learns quickly that they can't do it.

A tradesman can name his price with a black hole.

To the OP- ask for a no obligation visit. If you don't like the price get another opinion. You don't get ripped off with a few quotes.

At last, someone talking a bit of sense instead of scare tactics. This is exactly what i was trying to do. Have a bit of an idea what the problem could be, that way less chance of being ripped off. Not saying all guys are like that but i'm sure there are some. I have a guy coming out Thursday. Thanks to my new 'UK friends' i have an idea of the cost of typical parts and replacement. If the prices sounds too high, i'll get a couple of quotes, seems acceptable to me.

shane0007

dubmark74 wrote: »

I am an engineer so i can do some basic work on these things. I don't want to pay a fortune due to a simple problem. I suspect a sensor. Any help here appreciated.

So if you are that genuine, why did you start your OP with the above statement? That sounds like an unqualified person trying to work on a gas appliance, which is illegal, stupid and dangerous!!!

shane0007

DGOBS wrote: »

Ok, took a holiday for a few days, and you guys are tearing strips of each other, and I missed it all!!

You need to bring iPad with you on your jollies!

dubmark74

dubmark74 wrote: »

I am an engineer so i can do some basic work on these things.

dubmark74 wrote: »

This is exactly what i was trying to do. Have a bit of an idea what the problem could be, that way less chance of being ripped off.

Me thinks man speak with fork tongue :pac:

dubmark74

shane0007 wrote: »

So if you are that genuine, why did you start your OP with the above statement? That sounds like an unqualified person trying to work on a gas appliance, which is illegal, stupid and dangerous!!!

I can see how this would be taken to mean i was going to work on the boiler. I clarified this in my second post and three or four times after that. But yet i just continually got messages back about how i was going to blow up the whole neighbourhood.

dubmark74

gary71 wrote: »

Me thinks man speak with fork tongue :pac:

If we're quoting me, here's three seperate quotes from seperate messages below. Can't be any clearer than that. You guys are all parts of the same club so you'll stick together.

I didn't say i was going to work on a gasappliance

as i said a number of times i would notwork on the gas side of things

Just to reiterate what i said numeroustimes, i was not planning on working on the boiler itself

shane0007

Your opening statement was clear as day to what your intention was. You then back tracked once you received the correct and proper reactions from qualified persons advising you not to work on a gas appliance and advising you of the possible dangers of doing so. Trying to save face you then opted to get back up from your UK friends and tried to rub our noses in that. Perhaps they don't mind Paddy blowing himself up!

What do you expect? Why tell us you are an engineer? What has that got to do with it? Are we to bow to your superiority? Are you Heinbolloc in disguise?

If you had started the statement asking for what the possible problems could be for reasons to ascertain the possible cost of the repair, not mentioned your wonderful irrelevant qualifications, not mentioned that you can do minor repairs on gas boilers, you may have received the response you were looking for.

You do come across as a fiddler:D

dubmark74

I may be coming across as a fiddler, but Shane is coming across as a total asshole. If i was planning to work on the boiler, someone on an internet forum wouldn't stop me from doing so, especially someone like you who is clearly only trying to protect their patch. I clarified my position a number of times, but got nothing but crap from yous.
As for saying i am an engineer, i was simply indicating that i could do some basic mechanical/electrical work so that yous would know my ability. Some people may not be confortable checking supply voltages, venting the system, etc. It is actually yous who think you are superior, just because you have done some gas boiler course, not exactly rocket science.

dubmark74

By the way, the 'UK friends' was a joke, someone had previously called them that. I didn't know these from adam either. I wasn't rubbing anyones nose, i was just pointing out that they were a lot more helpful and not one came out with the crap yous did. They didn't know i was a 'Paddy' either, probably just nice people, who weren't thinking of their own pockets.

shane0007

Who do you think you are calling an asshole, you immature skank. Get a grip and stop throwing your toys out of your pram. Just because you think you are above everyone else, found you are out of your depth.

I sniff a troll here....

BTW that's Shane0007 to you, it's Shane only to the inner circle......

DGOBS

Guys, guys, clam down......

Look, I have told you, this problem can usually be easily sorted on a service unless the flue is rotten and requires replacement.

Other than that, I wouldn't expect you to pay more than a standard 'boiler service' from a reputable RGI who has experience on this appliance.
Posted question answered.

As you can appreciate, RGIs cannot be expected to go into details on a boiler repair that if carried out yourself would be considered illegal works in the eyes of the law, as they would be accused of complicity.

shane0007

DGOBS wrote: »

Guys, guys, clam down......

Thanks DGOBS, I have now clammed down....lol

KoolKid

I think this has run its course.
Infractions for Dubmark74 & Shane007 for personal abuse.
You can't report a persons post for being abusive and then do the same .