Garda stops car of lone woman at night

cold case

If a woman is driving home alone at night, and is stopped by a Garda car, what are the rules?

I was stopped recently; I had just rang my husband to let him know that I was leaving for home (5 minutes drive). As soon as I saw the flashing blue light, I pulled in immediately, as I thought he might want to overtake, but he stopped behind me, and got out. He checked my tax, insurance and NCT discs, and asked me why I was out so late (after midnight, midweek). I told him I was out with friends, and that I had just been talking to my husband, and I would ring him again now, as he would be expecting me home in minutes, so he just asked me if I had been drinking, I said I don't drink, and so he let me drive on.

Just curious to know if you have to stop in all circumstances. This was a quiet rural spot, and I felt quite vulnerable, so I kept the car door locked, and only opened the window a little.

After all, anyone could have a blue light flashing on top of their vehicle, he didn't have any ID (in fairness, I didn't ask him for ID), and he wore a plain looking uniform. Could I have driven on, and left him check my details at home?

yer man!

That would be a common occurrence ya, happened to my mum one night when she went over the white line for a second, guard pulled her over, asked her the same questions as he did you and then let her off again. If they see something out of the ordinary or are just bored they'll do a random check and say they "suspected drink driving".
It's an offense for any vehicle other than emergency vehicles to have blue flashing lights. You could have asked him for ID, they would have to show you if you asked for it. If you drove off and it was a real guard then you would be seriously in trouble, they would pursue you and force you to pull over, would be very stupid thing to do.

byhookorbycrook

I discussed this with a garda friend. Keep car locked, window up, tell approaching garda you are driving to the local station and they can follow you.

Citygirl1

That's an good question, and one I've sometimes thought about also (as a single female, who often drives alone:)).

I'll be interested to read any feedback.

It would be fairly easy to try to impersonate a Guard in the dark of night.

I would also ask, if a police officer issues an instruction to get out of the car, (without there being an obvious offence), and you didn't feel 100% sure of them, what's the best course action?

daenerysstormborn3

cold case wrote: »

If a woman is driving home alone at night, and is stopped by a Garda car, what are the rules?

I was stopped recently; I had just rang my husband to let him know that I was leaving for home (5 minutes drive). As soon as I saw the flashing blue light, I pulled in immediately, as I thought he might want to overtake, but he stopped behind me, and got out. He checked my tax, insurance and NCT discs, and asked me why I was out so late (after midnight, midweek). I told him I was out with friends, and that I had just been talking to my husband, and I would ring him again now, as he would be expecting me home in minutes, so he just asked me if I had been drinking, I said I don't drink, and so he let me drive on.

Just curious to know if you have to stop in all circumstances. This was a quiet rural spot, and I felt quite vulnerable, so I kept the car door locked, and only opened the window a little.

After all, anyone could have a blue light flashing on top of their vehicle, he didn't have any ID (in fairness, I didn't ask him for ID), and he wore a plain looking uniform. Could I have driven on, and left him check my details at home?

Genuine question, why is that any of his business? Even if you were out wielding an axe you could be a very good actress and say "I was out with friends, and that I had just been talking to my husband" and he could just wave you on your way. Do you actually have to tell the gardai what you're at when out driving? Although the OP doesn't confirm, judging by her post she wasn't displaying any suspicious behaviour other than driving at a late hour.

angeline

A guard will not ask you to step out of the car unless there is a suspected offence such as drink driving or misuse of drugs, etc. You have to comply with the direction of the guard in such circumstances. If, for example, you are suspected of drink driving, the guard cannot allow you to continue driving.

cold case

pixiebean22 wrote: »

Genuine question, why is that any of his business? Even if you were out wielding an axe you could be a very good actress and say "I was out with friends, and that I had just been talking to my husband" and he could just wave you on your way. Do you actually have to tell the gardai what you're at when out driving? Although the OP doesn't confirm, judging by her post she wasn't displaying any suspicious behaviour other than driving at a late hour.

I did think it was a bit forward of him to ask why I was out, but I didn't want to be a smart-ass, I just wanted to go home!

daenerysstormborn3

cold case wrote: »

I did think it was a bit forward of him to ask why I was out, but I didn't want to be a smart-ass, I just wanted to go home!

Ah yeah obviously, I'm sure most people would do the same in your position. I'm just wondering do they actually have a "right" to ask that question.

retroactive

I have never come across gender as grounds for disobeying a garda's directions. Although i'm sure Ivana Bacik is in the process of proposing one.

Zambia

cold case wrote: »

I did think it was a bit forward of him to ask why I was out, but I didn't want to be a smart-ass, I just wanted to go home!

If coppers were not forward then everything would take a very long time.

Zambia

pixiebean22 wrote: »

Ah yeah obviously, I'm sure most people would do the same in your position. I'm just wondering do they actually have a "right" to ask that question.

Yes they have a right to ask any question.

You dont have to answer.

The answer of

"If you dont mind Garda I would rather not say"

Is acceptable.

SamuelBam

Gardai usually ask random questions like that so they can see if you have been drinking i.e. smell drink off your breath or out of the car and if you slur you speech etc. They can ask and you don't have to answer anything. They just use it as a way of seeing you are after drink or drugs etc, simple as.

zef

"
If a woman is driving home alone at night, and is stopped by a Garda car, what are the rules?"

IMO the rules are the same for any motorist, regardless of gender.
A garda car is a garda car, there is no mistaking one.
You say he didn't have any id - but you never asked him?
I think it would be a highly unlikely scenario that a would-be rapist or whatever would be in possession of a garda car and uniform/ hat.

coylemj

SamuelBam wrote: »

Gardai usually ask random questions like that so they can see if you have been drinking i.e. smell drink off your breath or out of the car and if you slur you speech etc. They can ask and you don't have to answer anything. They just use it as a way of seeing you are after drink or drugs etc, simple as.

+1 OP I'd say that was the purpose behind the questions. You said you only opened the window a little which the Garda may have interpreted as a sign that you had drink on you and were trying to avoid him smelling your breath. His only fallback at that stage is to engage you in chat to gauge if you can talk ok without slurring your speech.

I know it's a bit politically incorrect to ask a woman why she's out so late when you wouldn't expect him to ask that question of a man but he wanted to hear you talking in response to a couple of questions to see if you were drunk, I wouldn't read too much into it beyond that.

ResearchWill

coylemj wrote: »

+1 OP I'd say that was the purpose behind the questions. You said you only opened the window a little which the Garda may have interpreted as a sign that you had drink on you and were trying to avoid him smelling your breath. His only fallback at that stage is to engage you in chat to gauge if you can talk ok without slurring your speech.

I know it's a bit politically incorrect to ask a woman why she's out so late when you wouldn't expect him to ask that question of a man but he wanted to hear you talking in response to a couple of questions to see if you were drunk, I wouldn't read too much into it beyond that.

I have appeared in court in more drink driving cases than I wish to mention (as lawyer) and in almost every case male and female where the Garda engaged with the suspect the question what you doing out at this hour was asked.

Zambia

Let me guess the answer to the subsequent

"Have you had anything to drink"

Is

"Just two beers"

That was enough to make them blow .1+

ballsymchugh

coylemj wrote: »

I know it's a bit politically incorrect to ask a woman why she's out so late when you wouldn't expect him to ask that question of a man but he wanted to hear you talking in response to a couple of questions to see if you were drunk, I wouldn't read too much into it beyond that.

i wouldn't say it's politically incorrect simply because she's female. i was stopped last summer and asked the same question, and i just engaged with the garda. turned out there was a few robberies in the area with a stolen car with the same description as mine.

as a great garda once said, 'move on, nothing to see here.'

syklops

coylemj wrote: »

I know it's a bit politically incorrect to ask a woman why she's out so late when you wouldn't expect him to ask that question of a man but he wanted to hear you talking in response to a couple of questions to see if you were drunk, I wouldn't read too much into it beyond that.

Its politically incorrect to ask a woman why she is out late because every one knows, only men commit crimes.

So the OP was literally singing "Im just a young innocent female on a dark road, in the middle of the night and some random upholder of the peace wanders along and potentially tries to rape me. tra lalala"

byhookorbycrook

Just copped (no pun intended) that it was garda in a marked car in the OP. I had discussion with garda friend in context of unmarked car, plain clothes' garda and era/area of Larry Murphy.

HowAreWe

cold case wrote: »

If a woman is driving home alone at night, and is stopped by a Garda car, what are the rules?

same as a man ?

Motorist

OP just tell the garda,

"You don't need to see my identification.

These aren't the droids you're looking for.

Move along."

syklops

HowAreWe wrote: »

same as a man ?

Has the phrase celtic kittens been coined yet? If not I call it!!!!

jill_valentine

zef wrote: »

whatever would be in possession of a garda car and uniform/ hat.

If it was dark enough, all he'd need is a blue shirt, an unfashionable tie and an authoritative voice if he wanted to chance his arm. Most people get so flustered in those situations, trying to remember where their license is and if they did anything wrong that they don't think to look for details.

Impersonating police officers for nefarious ends isn't at all unknown by the way, Ted Bundy was famous for it and there have been plenty of more recent cases.

mathepac

jill_valentine wrote: »

...
Impersonating police officers for nefarious ends isn't at all unknown by the way, Ted Bundy was famous for it and there have been plenty of more recent cases.

And there was I thinking OP asked the question in the context of living in the bad-lands of rural Ireland. What possible connection do you see between US mass-murderers and serial-killers and OP's question?

When was the last time we had a mass-muderer / serial-killer in Ireland who masqueraded as a member of AGS and who went around killing women? Better still, when was the first time?

jill_valentine

mathepac wrote: »

And there was I thinking OP asked the question in the context of living in the bad-lands of rural Ireland. What possible connection do you see between US mass-murderers and serial-killers and OP's question?

When was the last time we had a mass-muderer / serial-killer in Ireland who masqueraded as a member of AGS and who went around killing women? Better still, when was the first time?

I'm not saying it happens here, I'm not saying it's a massive present risk to Irish people, but of course there's a chance it's going to enter into somebody's head. Impersonating an authority figure is a tactic associated with sex attackers in particular, and I'm sure it's very easy to let your imagination wander a bit when you're driving around on your own at night.

ballsymchugh

jill_valentine wrote: »

I'm not saying it happens here, I'm not saying it's a massive present risk to Irish people, but of course there's a chance it's going to enter into somebody's head. Impersonating an authority figure is a tactic associated with sex attackers in particular, and I'm sure it's very easy to let your imagination wander a bit when you're driving around on your own at night.

maybe that's exactly what happened, and you were veering all over the place instead of concentrating!!

zef

jill_valentine wrote: »

If it was dark enough, all he'd need is a blue shirt, an unfashionable tie and an authoritative voice if he wanted to chance his arm. Most people get so flustered in those situations, trying to remember where their license is and if they did anything wrong that they don't think to look for details.

Impersonating police officers for nefarious ends isn't at all unknown by the way, Ted Bundy was famous for it and there have been plenty of more recent cases.

He'd need a real garda car too. Difficult to come by i'd imagine.
We women want equal rights, yes?
Equal rights = equal treatment.

jill_valentine

zef wrote: »

He'd need a real garda car too. Difficult to come by i'd imagine.
We women want equal rights, yes?
Equal rights = equal treatment.

.... wut?

My only point is that I can see why somebody might wonder about it, on a lonely road at night.

NegativeCreep

What difference does being female make? If a Guard pulls you in, you stop regardless of time of day, what gender you are or whether you're alone.

Kylo Ren

I think the rules for a woman is that they don't have to stop and can keep driving while giving the finger to the guard out the window.

The lads have to stop and give details etc.

IvySlayer

Why do you have to bring your gender into this? Just do what the Garda tells you to do, unless you feel your rights are being abused and you really should've asked for his ID before allowing him to proceed. Gardaí often ask people questions to see if there's a slur in your speech, or to see if they can smell alcohol.

Stop playing the gender card.

jill_valentine

IvySlayer wrote: »

Why do you have to bring your gender into this? Just do what the Garda tells you to do, unless you feel your rights are being abused. Gardaí often asks people question to see if there's a slur in your speech, or to see if they can smell alcohol.

Stop playing the gender card.

She isn't asking if she can get out of a speeding ticket or anything, she's wondering if there's any advice if somebody feels a bit sketch about an apparent Garda stop. As I've already pointed out, impersonating an authority figure is a common tactic among sex attackers, and women know this, so they may feel a little more physically vulnerable than their male counterparts would in the same situation. It's not a question of getting soft treatment.

And wouldn't you know it, there actually is advice on the subject, which was offered thus:

I discussed this with a garda friend. Keep car locked, window up, tell approaching garda you are driving to the local station and they can follow you.

Zambia

jill_valentine wrote: »

.... wut?

My only point is that I can see why somebody might wonder about it, on a lonely road at night.

I get your piont. Most Garda I assume would reassure any fears you have if you had reasonable grounds.

You are relatively safe and secure in the front seat with the doors locked.

Fact is if it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, swims like a duck. 99.9 Times out of 100 its a duck.

jill_valentine

Thanks, I was beginning to feel like I'd taken crazy pills there for a second.

ballsymchugh

Keno 92 wrote: »

I think the rules for a woman is that they don't have to stop and can keep driving while giving the finger to the guard out the window.

The lads have to stop and give details etc.

screw you dude. i just coughed tea up through my nose and made a mess everywhere!

Rabies

I don't want to say you were pulled over for driving like a woman, because thats pigeon holing all women drivers.

You were pulled over in a random stop. Asked questions. Went home.
I dont see a problem. Anything to hide? Like a kilo of coke in the glove box or a head in the boot? Of not, then answer the questions like a normal person, don't freak out unless you've come from the cinema after watching some American teen horror slasher movie.

zef

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

Just copped (no pun intended) that it was garda in a marked car in the OP. I had discussion with garda friend in context of unmarked car, plain clothes' garda and era/area of Larry Murphy.

@ jill valentine - Not in the case of an obvious Gardai car, didn't you read the posters correction?

seb65

Zambia wrote: »

I get your piont. Most Garda I assume would reassure any fears you have if you had reasonable grounds.

You are relatively safe and secure in the front seat with the doors locked.

Fact is if it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, swims like a duck. 99.9 Times out of 100 its a duck.

Well I'm sure that eases the minds the relatives of missing and murdered women.

Ploys are how men who assault/murder get women to let their guard down. Impersonating a police officer, pretending to be injured, offering to help them with their groceries in a lift.

In other jurisdictions - I'm not sure about Ireland - it is codified in statute that women driving alone have the right to drive to the nearest police station when pulled over by a police officer. How exactly can you keep the doors locked if the gardai asks you to step outside of the car? What if he puts a gun in your face? A number of women have gone missing in Ireland and nobody can say for certain what ruse was used to lure them away.

The point here is that the OP, it seems, wasn't doing anything wrong.

You can say equal rights = equal treatment. I agree. And when women stop being murdered and assaulted by men so disproportionately compared to men murdered by women, we can relinquish the safeguards in place to protect women from male predators.

MagicSean

pixiebean22 wrote: »

Ah yeah obviously, I'm sure most people would do the same in your position. I'm just wondering do they actually have a "right" to ask that question.

Yes. Gardaí can ask you whatever they want.

jill_valentine wrote: »

She isn't asking if she can get out of a speeding ticket or anything, she's wondering if there's any advice if somebody feels a bit sketch about an apparent Garda stop. As I've already pointed out, impersonating an authority figure is a common tactic among sex attackers, and women know this, so they may feel a little more physically vulnerable than their male counterparts would in the same situation. It's not a question of getting soft treatment.

Have you a link to support your claim that sex attackers commonly impersonate authority figures because I'm pretty sure you are wrong there.

jill_valentine wrote: »

And wouldn't you know it, there actually is advice on the subject, which was offered thus:

The poster corrected that quote. He was referring to unmarked Garda cars which was not what the op encountered.

Erper

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

I discussed this with a garda friend. Keep car locked, window up, tell approaching garda you are driving to the local station and they can follow you.

good to know

mathepac

seb65 wrote: »

Well I'm sure that eases the minds the relatives of missing and murdered women.

... A number of women have gone missing in Ireland and nobody can say for certain what ruse was used to lure them away.

... And when women stop being murdered and assaulted by men so disproportionately compared to men murdered by women, we can relinquish the safeguards in place to protect women from male predators.

You obviously must have evidence that in the cases of some unfortunate missing women they have been murdered by men. How did you come by this information? By comparison, how many of these unfortunate missing women have committed suicide, are suffering from amnesia or have deliberately disappeared in order to start new lives for themselves elsewhere?

seb65 wrote: »

... The point here is that the OP, it seems, wasn't doing anything wrong...

I'm not sure what jurisdiction you live in but the Gardai in Ireland can make random road-side stops to check for drink-drivers. They also of course have the right and duty to investigate anything they see as suspicious, traffic-related or otherwise.

seb65 wrote: »

... You can say equal rights = equal treatment. I agree. And when women stop being murdered and assaulted by men so disproportionately compared to men murdered by women, we can relinquish the safeguards in place to protect women from male predators.

Women kill men, men kill men but I don't think that equality of homicide stats of one gender on another is a valid or wholesome measure of equality.

To me this appears to be another attempt to play the gender card and blow what sounds like a simple, valid and legal traffic-stop out of all proportion.

If people of any age, gender or sexual orientation feel nervous driving alone in rural Ireland at night then there's a number of very obvious solutions open to them.

Dave!

So is it only in the case of an unmarked car that you're allowed to drive to the Garda station?

The Garda impersonation is probably unlikely, but even if it is legitimately a Garda, and the person being stopped believes same, being alone in a rural area at night with just yourself and 1 authority figure can probably feel like a very vulnerable situation. You'd like to believe that every Garda is a great fella/woman, but abuse of power does happen, and I know that even as a male I'd feel a bit uncomfortable in that situation. If it's just a routine stop, then wouldn't it be fair enough to let them at least continue to a more built-up area, where there might be more people around?

page1

The OP's question is a valid one. I fail to understand why people cannot appreciate that a woman driving in a rural area alone at night would feel very vunerable.
I'm sure there are plenty of men that fear an attack or mugging but women have a far greater fear of being raped,
which is the second worst offence in the criminal calender.

In daylight it is much easier to identify a Garda car and uniform but if a car is driving behind you with blue flashing lights at night you could not be able to tell for sure that it is a Garda car or simply one with blue flashing lights. Similarly a fake Garda uniform would be harder to spot at night in poor light.
There doesn't have to be evidence of this occuring regularly for women to fear it.

Obviously the Gardai need to be entitled to pull over cars at night but it is still a valid query as to how to proceed if the driver has doubts.

OP I would lock the doors and keep the window up, ask for id and ring the station to confirm. If I was asked to step out of the car I would refuse and ask the Garda to follow me to the nearest Garda station.
I'm not saying this is the correct procedure but it is what I would do.
I simply would not take the risk.

MagicSean

page1 wrote: »

The OP's question is a valid one. I fail to understand why people cannot appreciate that a woman driving in a rural area alone at night would feel very vunerable.
I'm sure there are plenty of men that fear an attack or mugging but women have a far greater fear of being raped,
which is the second worst offence in the criminal calender.

In daylight it is much easier to identify a Garda car and uniform but if a car is driving behind you with blue flashing lights at night you could not be able to tell for sure that it is a Garda car or simply one with blue flashing lights. Similarly a fake Garda uniform would be harder to spot at night in poor light.
There doesn't have to be evidence of this occuring regularly for women to fear it.

Obviously the Gardai need to be entitled to pull over cars at night but it is still a valid query as to how to proceed if the driver has doubts.

OP I would lock the doors and keep the window up, ask for id and ring the station to confirm. If I was asked to step out of the car I would refuse and ask the Garda to follow me to the nearest Garda station.
I'm not saying this is the correct procedure but it is what I would do.
I simply would not take the risk.

Uniformed Gardaí often don't carry ID. They are not required to produce it while in uniform.

Also, men can be raped too.

haulagebasher

You can say equal rights = equal treatment. I agree. And when women stop being murdered and assaulted by men so disproportionately compared to men murdered by women, we can relinquish the safeguards in place to protect women from male predators.

So you're saying that when women murder the same amount of men as men murder women, that then you will be happy to be randomly stopped and questionned by a Policeman??? Such a ludicrous statment was never posted on this forum till now!

charlie_says

MagicSean wrote: »

Uniformed Gardaí often don't carry ID. They are not required to produce it while in uniform.

Really? I find that hard to believe.

I have heard that they are required to carry their warrant card (not sure if that is the correct term, but their official police ID basically) even when they are off duty.

Gabriele

Honestly I would like to know if the possibility to go in the nearest Garda station is a valid procedure. It doesn't matter the gender, even a fella could feel in danger to be stabbed for some change, or to have their car stolen etc etc... I am a male, but personally if the situation is unclear, (like car or uniform not clearly recognizable) I would drive to the garda station. It doesn't matter the gender, with a gun, or a knife, on your face, you pretty much do whatever the assaulter is asking you to do.

Procrastastudy

So in a rural area you don't stop for the guard. So what about an urban area where there are very few / no people - what about an urban area where you don't like the look of the people. What about an urban area where there are lots of guards - they all might be rapists?!

There really is a point where caution turns to paranoia.

Motorist

Procrastastudy wrote: »

So in a rural area you don't stop for the guard. So what about an urban area where there are very few / no people - what about an urban area where you don't like the look of the people. What about an urban area where there are lots of guards - they all might be rapists?!

There really is a point where caution turns to paranoia.

Just make sure the garda is wearing his hat, then it's all legal and above board :pac:

Delancey

It's amazing the number of people on Boards.ie who genuinely believe ( or perhaps want to believe ) that a woman on her own late at night is not obliged to stop for a Garda when requested to do so.
Previous threads on this subject on other forums have elicited some remarkable interpretations of legislation from a brigade of ' Barrack Room Lawyers '.

MagicSean

Delancey wrote: »

It's amazing the number of people on Boards.ie who genuinely believe ( or perhaps want to believe ) that a woman on her own late at night is not obliged to stop for a Garda when requested to do so.
Previous threads on this subject on other forums have elicited some remarkable interpretations of legislation from a brigade of ' Barrack Room Lawyers '.

What i find more amazing is that people will rely more on seeing a small badge, even though they have no idea what it should look like, than a full uniform and patrol car.