Are Atheism and the hatred of religion intertwined?

Mossess

To start off, I would like to clarify that I know nothing about atheism, and I’m not too far off that when it comes to religion either. So I’m not asking this to put anyone down or bolster anyone’s else ideas or anything.

A friend of mine on Facebook is an Atheist. From what I gather he seems to be very involved in it. (I don’t know if there is a defined group or how it works) – but, the majority of his postings are basically highly geared towards his hatred of the Catholic Church.

Is that what Atheism is about, is it part of it or is this just this one persons hatred of the Catholic church being expressed under the banner of Atheism?

I haven’t reacted or commented on any of the postings, many of which are genuinely highly offensive, as I don’t have any understanding of where he is coming from and I don’t want to get into an argument with the person.

Rev Hellfire

No.

magicbastarder

i know lots of catholics who hate the catholic church.
go figure.

Kooli

I reckon they become more intertwined in countries where religion still holds a lot of power in the public arena. So Ireland would fit that bill.

I reckon that as the years go by and the church loses its influence over state and cultural affairs, atheism will become less an active part of our lives and more just one of many opinions/ideas we subscribe to.

But it's difficult to be an atheist and remain neutral about religion when it's still poking into our lives in the public sphere.

Blowfish

Mossess wrote: »

Is that what Atheism is about, is it part of it or is this just this one persons hatred of the Catholic church being expressed under the banner of Atheism?

You can be an Atheist and not hate religion and be a theist who does hate religion, so no, they aren't intertwined.

MrPudding

I have my atheism, which says nothing about religion. I also have my anti-theism, which is where my hatred of religion comes from. The two are, IMO, separate. Not all atheists are anti-theists.

MrP

oldrnwisr

The short answer would be no as Rev. Hellfire stated.

The best analogy I have heard to describe the link between atheism and anti-theism is smoking. You would imagine that someone who isn't a smoker shouldn't give a crap about smoking. However, the most vehement campaigners for anti-smoking laws are ex-smokers. Similarly most atheists are ex-theists and while not all by any means bear animosity toward religion, some certainly have escaped quite repressive upbringings centred around extreme religious beliefs.

Secondly, I would also point out that it's not like a lot of religions just say "Well here's what we believe and if you don't want to believe that's fair enough." To quote Alan Davies, this stuff has been responsible for some serious aggravation in the world. Women's rights, gay rights, education, medical care, all impacted by religion. You'll find that the attitude to religion is tied to the inclination of a particular religion to force its beliefs on society.

Mossess

Do you recon I should say something about what they are posting? As a message instead of a public wall post? Or ask them directly what it has to do with atheism? Or just let it go.

18AD

Nope. You can have atheist jews and atheist buddhists and probably plenty more in between. Maybe they are all self-loathing though...



Edit: As for people blaming this and that about the woes of humanity, stop moaning and do something about it. It's either the church or bankers or the illuminati. Kindly stop complaining and do something.

Gbear

Mossess wrote: »

Do you recon I should say something about what they are posting? As a message instead of a public wall post? Or ask them directly what it has to do with atheism? Or just let it go.

Well if you're posting here I would assume that would indicate that it bothers you at least a bit.

Why does it bother you?
Why do you find it offensive?

For example; there's ample material to beat the Catholic church with - a lot of it might offend people but that doesn't mean it's not justified.

Equally, just because a Religion is responsible for bad things doesn't mean that any comment attacking them is reasonable: "The Catholic Church is evil because they engage in human sacrifice".

The church may well be evil but that doesn't make the assertion that they engage in human sacrifice a reasonable one.

28064212

Mossess wrote: »

I haven’t reacted or commented on any of the postings, many of which are genuinely highly offensive, as I don’t have any understanding of where he is coming from and I don’t want to get into an argument with the person.

How are they offensive exactly? And the fact that he's an atheist has nothing to do with it. There are plenty of people who dislike the RCC in Ireland who are not atheist

Chuck Stone

I hate religion so much I shout and throw things at it.

Rynox45

Some atheists are passive, some are militant. It seems like your friend is just a little bit of a loudmouth

Mossess

28064212 wrote: »

How are they offensive exactly? And the fact that he's an atheist has nothing to do with it. There are plenty of people who dislike the RCC in Ireland who are not atheist

Usually religious pictures with text on top slagging off Jesus etc. That sort of thing.

Bannasidhe

Personally I don't hate religion - I hate when people use religion to justify hate, inequality and institutionalised bigotry. I hate that religion is used as a license to try and impose restrictions on people who do not share that religion.

If religion leaves me alone, I am quite content to ignore it. But instead religious belief 'allows' someone to call me a threat to humanity, objectively disordered, an abomination, a lesser human for having a vagina, a lesser parent because I am homosexual...the list goes on and on and on..

So yes I sometimes poke fun at religions (I'm equal opportunity about it) and sometimes I will go off on a rant on FB when I read some statement from some religious twank denying my humanity, questioning my mental health and generally attempting to wrap my ovaries in their rosaries.

28064212

Mossess wrote: »

Usually religious pictures with text on top slagging off Jesus etc. That sort of thing.

Slagging him off in what way? If you replaced Jesus with a picture of, say, Enda Kenny, would it still be offensive?

EDIT: Is it any more offensive than the stuff in this thread, for example?

Chuck Stone

Mossess wrote: »

Usually religious pictures with text on top slagging off Jesus etc. That sort of thing.

It would be nice if Christians were a bit more like the 'good Jesus' with the forgiveness and the whole being charitable with the less fortunate thing.

This little picture with text atop explains it better than me.

Mossess

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Personally I don't hate religion - I hate when people use religion to justify hate, inequality and institutionalised bigotry. I hate that religion is used as a license to try and impose restrictions on people who do not share that religion.

If religion leaves me alone, I am quite content to ignore it. But instead religious belief 'allows' someone to call me a threat to humanity, objectively disordered, an abomination, a lesser human for having a vagina, a lesser parent because I am homosexual...the list goes on and on and on..

So yes I sometimes poke fun at religions (I'm equal opportunity about it) and sometimes I will go off on a rant on FB when I read some statement from some religious twank denying my humanity, questioning my mental health and generally attempting to wrap my ovaries in their rosaries.

LOL, very good. I think they are doing exactly that but perhaps in reverse. They are using Atheism to justify and impose their own beliefs on others. beliefs which don't have anything to do with Atheism as far as I can see.

Bannasidhe

Mossess wrote: »

LOL, very good. I think they are doing exactly that but perhaps in reverse. They are using Atheism to justify and impose their own beliefs on others. beliefs which don't have anything to do with Atheism as far as I can see.

This sounds like someone who is very angry at the RCC who also happens to be an atheist - the two are not mutually inclusive.

Anti-Roman Catholicism has existed as long as Roman Catholicism has, and many of those who most vocally and viciously attack it are Christians. Have a google of the term 'Pope antichrist' and some of that stuff is waaaaaayyyyy out there. It makes Ian Paisley in his hay day look like a 'papist lover' .

This image is from 1545 - it shows German Protestants giving their considered opinion of a Papal Bull and Papal authority.

Rynox45

Rynox45 wrote: »

Some atheists are passive, some are militant. It seems like your friend is just a little bit of a loudmouth

(Not having a dig at you, Rynox45.) I've always thoroughly hated the phrase "militant atheism." What does it entail?

"I lack a belief in a god, and by damn I'll fight and shout to let you know about it! I have a hard-line lack of belief, as opposed to a regular, soft lack of belief."

I don't believe militant atheism exists, simply because I don't believe the phrase makes much sense. Militant anti-theism? Well, that makes more sense. But still, the word militant is so loaded and carries such negative connotations: you think of armies and bombs and fighting and hard-line beliefs and policies, none of which describe what most anti-theists are. They're simply people who speak out against religion. That's hardly worthy of being described as militant.

Bloodwing

Mossess wrote: »

LOL, very good. I think they are doing exactly that but perhaps in reverse. They are using Atheism to justify and impose their own beliefs on others. beliefs which don't have anything to do with Atheism as far as I can see.

How is posting funny pictures of jesus considered imposing his "beliefs" on somebody. The great thing about Facebook is that if someone causes you offence you can stop being their friend and then you won't have to see thoses pictures anymore.

I'm an atheist and I don't hate religion, what I do hate is all the wrong doing that some people have committed and are committing in the name of religion. The great thing about the world we live in is that I can mock religions and I don't have to fear being burned at the stake or stoned to death. That same freedom allows you to challenge those who mock your beliefs, just be prepared to have to defend your position if you choose to do that.

For too long religious orders held the reins when it came to how countries were run and how laws were set and to this day we're still seeing the after effects. Now that change is here they don't like being on the back foot so they like to consider those that mock and ridicule them to be aggressive/ militant atheists.

Long story short is that if religion wasn't having a negative effect on our daily lives we wouldn't give a damn about it. This forum probably wouldn't be here and your friend probably wouldn't bother posting his pictures on FB. As I'm sure you've noticed there's no thread on boards called the funny side of stamp collecting.

Kidchameleon

Kooli wrote: »

I reckon they become more intertwined in countries where religion still holds a lot of power in the public arena. So Ireland would fit that bill.

I reckon that as the years go by and the church loses its influence over state and cultural affairs, atheism will become less an active part of our lives and more just one of many opinions/ideas we subscribe to.

But it's difficult to be an atheist and remain neutral about religion when it's still poking into our lives in the public sphere.

I don't get this though. I really don't see how religion has any power anymore, it has no influence on anyones life as far as I can see.

Otacon

Kidchameleon wrote: »

I don't get this though. I really don't see how religion has any power anymore, it has no influence on anyones life as far as I can see.

Except when it stops your kids from going to the local school...

Kidchameleon

Kidchameleon wrote: »

I don't get this though. I really don't see how religion has any power anymore, it has no influence on anyones life as far as I can see.

95% (or so) of Irish national schools are under the control of the Catholic church, as one example. I could go on about politics and the influence, say, religious lobby groups have on laws (be it gay marriage, abortion, or any number of other issues). Or, how about Saudi Arabia or Pakistan? I know that doesn't influence us, but religion there plays a huge, huge role in how the country is governed. Religion has an influence on the daily lives of almost all of us, even if it's in a way that isn't exactly apparent.

joseph brand

18AD wrote: »

Nope. You can have atheist jews and atheist buddhists and probably plenty more in between. Maybe they are all self-loathing though...

From Curb Your Enthusiasm:

W: "You know what you are? You're a self-loating Jew."
LD: "I do hate myself, but it has nothing to do with being Jewish."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1PoPZF82FX8

AFAIK Israeli jews aren't fond of Larry, or any other US jews. I could be wrong.

Delirium

gvn wrote: »

(Not having a dig at you, Rynox45.) I've always thoroughly hated the phrase "militant atheism." What does it entail?

"I lack a belief in a god, and by damn I'll fight and shout to let you know about it! I have a hard-line lack of belief, as opposed to a regular, soft lack of belief."

I don't believe militant atheism exists, simply because I don't believe the phrase makes much sense. Militant anti-theism? Well, that makes more sense. But still, the word militant is so loaded and carries such negative connotations: you think of armies and bombs and fighting and hard-line beliefs and policies, none of which describe what most anti-theists are. They're simply people who speak out against religion. That's hardly worthy of being described as militant.

With you on that one. Recently read an article by an atheist who referred to other atheists as militant atheists for basically posting pictures similar to those in the Funny side of religion thread.

So to be a 'militant atheist' you only need dare express an opinion contrary to someone else, be they religious or atheist? It's just daft.

Liamario

Mossess wrote: »

To start off, I would like to clarify that I know nothing about atheism

I would have thought this would have raised an alarm for others.
Atheism is a lack of a belief in a god(s). That's it. There is literally nothing more to it. There are no rules or regulations or agreed approach to life.

Why do people struggle with this concept so much.

Dades

Mossess wrote: »

A friend of mine on Facebook is an Atheist. From what I gather he seems to be very involved in it. (I don’t know if there is a defined group or how it works) – but, the majority of his postings are basically highly geared towards his hatred of the Catholic Church.

The thing is, there's probably a bunch of your friends on Facebook that are atheists. It's just this one likes to mouth off about it. There are mouthy atheists just like there are mouthy religious.

18AD

Dades wrote: »

The thing is, there's probably a bunch of your friends on Facebook that are atheists. It's just this one likes to mouth off about it. There are mouthy atheists just like there are mouthy religious.

Stereotypes always come from the outspoken group members because you never actually hear about the quiet ones.

It's like the crazy artist stereotype. It's because nobody actually wants to hear about the non-crazy stories, cause lets face it, they're not good stories. So all artists are crazy.

fitz0

What you can do is-
1) Scroll over the offending post
2) Click the dropdown arrow
3) Click unsubscribe to _______
4) No more offensive posts

Why do they offend you? Since you say you know next to nothing about religion, what is the root cause of your offence?

Popinjay

Bannasidhe wrote: »

...generally attempting to wrap my ovaries in their rosaries.

This is one of the best turns of phrase I've read in a long time.

human 19

Liamario wrote: »

I would have thought this would have raised an alarm for others.
Atheism is a lack of a belief in a god(s). That's it. There is literally nothing more to it. There are no rules or regulations or agreed approach to life.

Why do people struggle with this concept so much.

That about sums it up.
If there was no religion there would be no atheism. Im not the slightest bit interested in religion but if someone insists on putting me somewhere on the religion spectrum, then they can choose the athiesm label for me. It's their spectrum,not mine.
I couldnt care less.
Knock yourself out.