The fate of Irish Lightships

Judgement Day

Always had a passing interest in these since visiting the "Guillemot" when it was a museum at Wexford harbour back in the 1970s. I was on it again in 2005 in Kilmore Quay, and feared the worst even then as it was rather crudely preserved - almost like it had been run aground and concreted into the quayside. Unbelievably it was cut up without as much as a whimper in 2011. Although why I should be surprised is another matter given the appalling official attitude to preservation of Ireland's heritage. Apart from a piece in the Enniscorthy Guardian - after the event - the only thing that I can find online about it is a piece on the website of the scrap company that cut it up, boasting about the contract.



Some more pics here from Wexford Camera Club http://www.wexfordcameraclub.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1300478453

Anyway, the scrapping of the "Guillemot" along with a recent request by somebody to sell some Triang Minic miniature ships for them sent me off on aother tangent and now apart from buying - rather than selling - some miniature ships (including a lightship) I have been researching the fate of the 37 Irish lightships that served round the coast since the dawn of the 19th century. There's quite a lot of information online and I'm just starting to try and draw all the threads together but one thing comes across is that as a country the Republic of Ireland is in danger of having not one solitary example of a lightship preserved for posterity.

These are the remaining Irish lightships and their current locations.

18. "Cormorant" (1876/78) refurbished and in use as a houseboat in Kent.

27. "Penguin" (1909/10) rebuilt as a schooner and out of use in Scotland but in good condition and may be purchased for use as a church in the Titanic Quarter in Belfast.

29. "Petrel" (1913/15) Now clubhouse for the Down Cruising Club at Stragford Lough.

31. "Albatross" (1924/25) The light now adorns an apartment complex on the North Quay, Arklow, while the hulk is in Kent where it is for sale for £ 65,000.

32. "Gannet" (1953/54) Privately owned in Kent.

33. "Osprey" (1953/55) Now a floating restaurant in Paris serving British Pub Grub - the mind boggles!

35. "Kittiwake" (1957/59) Owned by Harry Crosbie and was moored at the North Wall Quay but as his plans to turn it into a floating restaurant were turned down by Dublin City Council its future is uncertain.

36. "Skua" (1957/60) Dumped at Arklow - light removed - outlook bleak.

37. "Cormorant" (1963/64) Sold by the Commissioners of Irish Lights to Trinity House - its UK counterpart - and has seen service off English coast. Last sighting I have is in Harwich harbour in 2007.

Not a pretty picture of preservation but in a country that has its National Transport Museum in a hay shed and its National Maritime Museum in a church....

However, I've been banging on about this type of thing since I left school in 1977 and things have only got worse so I'm probably better sticking to my miniatures.

Below is "Varne" by Triang Minic circa 1958/60, only 1.5 inches long and cost me €8.44.



Any information gratefully received.

Rocky Bay

You may want to check back issues of the "Hollybough". I am certain there are articles about the Daunt lightship which was stationed off of Roberts Cove, Co. Cork. It was there in 1973, after that I don't know how long it lasted.

Tabnabs

but one thing comes across is that as a country the Republic of Ireland is in danger of having not one solitary example of a lightship preserved for posterity.

Just to respectfully point out, the Lighthouse Service in Ireland is (and always has been) a whole island body. There is no North/South divide when it comes to the provision of aids to navigation.

I would also point out that CIL will become entirely self funding by 2015 and there is no way in hell that they will take on any preservation of any significant structures. And who else will? (Look at the Naomh Eanna rotting away in GCD).

Judgement Day

Tabnabs wrote: »

Just to respectfully point out, the Lighthouse Service in Ireland is (and always has been) a whole island body. There is no North/South divide when it comes to the provision of aids to navigation.

I would also point out that CIL will become entirely self funding by 2015 and there is no way in hell that they will take on any preservation of any significant structures. And who else will? (Look at the Naomh Eanna rotting away in GCD).

Agreed, and there's nobody more in favour of all-Ireland institutions (I can only dream of what it would be like to have the National Trust operating south of the border) but that doesn't let the Republic off the hook for not preserving its heritage. I don't expect the Commissioners of Irish Lights to get into the preservation game but that said they seem to get rid of vessels to all and sundry without ensuring that at least one of them is preserved for what it is.

Some updates to my original post:

"Penguin" will not be coming to Belfast - sale agreed to an unidentified buyer.

"Gannet" is being restored at Hoo in Kent and there's a restoration blog here: http://lightshipgannet.blogspot.ie/

"Cormorant" last sighting at Harwich updated to 24/5/2009



My Triang Minic "Queen Mary" and Ocean Terminal set (€53.97) arrived this morning - much less hassle than the real thing and no useless politicians, Failte Ireland, Heritage Council etc. trying to prevent me from preserving it.

Judgement Day

On a positive note I spoke to somebody at Trinity House in Harwich a few minutes ago and they confirmed that "Cormorant" now LV24 is currently in use at the CHANNEL station and likely to remain in service well into the forseeable future.

Judgement Day

Not Irish but interesting Anglia TV lightship footage here: http://www.eafa.org.uk/catalogue/142269

and from the same source the EAST GOODWIN lightship in rough weather http://www.eafa.org.uk/catalogue/142214

Jason MacMahon

The Kittiwake has vanished from the North Wall Quay. Does Harry Crosbie still own it? Maybe NAMA now own it?

Judgement Day

Jason MacMahon wrote: »

The Kittiwake has vanished from the North Wall Quay. Does Harry Crosbie still own it? Maybe NAMA now own it?

Short thread on the Kittiwake's 'disappearance' here: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=79937657

It beggars belief that in the week where hundreds of thousands turned out to view the Tall Ships that Ireland's maritime heritage is so utterly neglected.

During my researches this week I went off on another tangent - the sad demise of the the Guinness ships "The Lady Patricia" and "Miranda Guinness". While both were relatively modern ships there was something iconic about them but both were turned to razor blades! http://www.flickr.com/photos/48073612@N04/4607553148/

http://www.mariner.ie/history/articles/stories/the-guinness-fleets

The "Miranda Guinness' was only 17 years old when she was cut-up. :mad:

who the fug

re the Guinness boats, seem to remember that one needed major engine repairs, and there was industrial action at the time.

Laid up in the Manchester Ship Canal I believe

Anyone know what happened to the sister ship to the MV Cill Airne, which went off to the Bahamas

who the fug

Did some googling, sister ship was MV Blarna, and found this

Judgement Day

who the fug wrote: »

re the Guinness boats, seem to remember that one needed major engine repairs, and there was industrial action at the time.

Laid up in the Manchester Ship Canal I believe

Anyone know what happened to the sister ship to the MV Cill Airne, which went off to the Bahamas

Rusting away in Canada, apparently, here's a link: http://www.royalgazette.com/article/20120104/NEWS/701049918

who the fug

What engines did they have?

goldie fish

who the fug wrote: »

re the Guinness boats, seem to remember that one needed major engine repairs, and there was industrial action at the time.

Laid up in the Manchester Ship Canal I believe

Anyone know what happened to the sister ship to the MV Cill Airne, which went off to the Bahamas

I thought Miranda ended up as a sewage tanker.

who the fug

No pretty sure they were broken up soon afterwards.

end of the road

its tippical of this country i'm afraid, anything of interest leave it to rot and cut it up, or just cut it up straight away and turn it into razer blades, or demolish it, but if its a bit of wood found in bally go backwards or some bog or some god 4saken dump then any arm of the state to do with heritage or probably even some of the groups funded by it are all over it, if anyone speaks out their told to grow up and get over it or move on or their stuck in the past and we need to look to the future otherwise known as we need to build more houses apartments and shopping centres that nobody wants, have never wanted or will never want.

Tabnabs

The UK's last manned lightship in Liverpool could be turned into a floating hotel.

Read more at http://www.clickliverpool.com/news/local-news/1217091-decision-over-liverpool-planet-lightship-hotel-delayed.html#Igls4KbMgOl5lyBa.99

Judgement Day

Quite a nice painting of "Petrel" at Strangford Lough is for sale in Ross's September Online Auction of Irish Art http://www.rosss.com/auction.asp?SearchString=&GuidePrice=&OrderBy=&ArtistID=&Sold=&estimate=&AucID=108&offset=12

dekbhoy

Judgement Day wrote: »

Short thread on the Kittiwake's 'disappearance' here: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=79937657

It beggars belief that in the week where hundreds of thousands turned out to view the Tall Ships that Ireland's maritime heritage is so utterly neglected.

During my researches this week I went off on another tangent - the sad demise of the the Guinness ships "The Lady Patricia" and "Miranda Guinness". While both were relatively modern ships there was something iconic about them but both were turned to razor blades! http://www.flickr.com/photos/48073612@N04/4607553148/

http://www.mariner.ie/history/articles/stories/the-guinness-fleets

The "Miranda Guinness' was only 17 years old when she was cut-up. :mad:

The Kittiwake light ship is currently berthed inside in Dublin port as opposed to on the liffey fairway. It has been purchased from Harry Crosbie by Dublin Port Co. for around 60,000 euro. It is due to be refurbished and placed somewhere in the city as a maritime ornament just like the diving bell on sir john rogersons quay.

Judgement Day

dekbhoy - not that I didn't believe you but I rang the Dublin Port Company this morning and your information is spot-on. I should have more news in the next couple of weeks. Let's hope whatever is done with her is preservation rather than conversion into something garish.



2008 view of "Kittiwake" lying adjacent to the Point Depot.
Copyright: http://irishlighthouses.blogspot.ie

JustAThought

Dorothy Cross did.an."instillation" with one a.few.years.back. I think it was *based out in Dun Laoghaire. I remember seeing info on it in IMMA - the.Irish Museum for.Modern "Art"
They might be able to help but you'd want to say your doing.g.art.research on Dorothy otherwise I doubt they*d be interested. they*really typically particularly unhelpful but LOVE Dorothy Cross indeed

Judgement Day

Thanks for that. I knew of the Dorothy Cross 'art' display. How typically Irish, make a song and dance of a heritage item with a ridiculous one-off display and then leave it to its fate.



The remains of the unfortunate ship are now lying in England awaiting conversion into a house boat - the lamp is in an apartment complex on the quayside in Arklow. More here; http://www.leithshipyards.com/ships-built-in-leith/1918-to-1939/64-albatross-yard-no-30-lightship-irish-lights-built-.html

Here it is for sale - if you have a spare GBP 65,000



http://www.premierhouseboats.co.uk/Conversion_Houseboats_For_Sale.html

JustAThought

What a terrible ending
Its like taking a besutyspot + * preserving* it in concrete
V oirish.when will we learn.
I was at an exhibition on lighthouses + lamps at the national maratime museum in Paris earlier this year - might be worth a google for possible links or leads?

If you*re serious you could try John (?) EAGLE - PHOTOGRApher - i have both the book and presentation pistcard set of all the lighthouses in Irrland that he did a ( fair) few years back. He did the LH cataloging in conjunction with the Irish Lighthouse commision.

He might havd something on them - or s good lead or namd to follow up with.

The Irish Lights in Dun Laoghaire were only recruiting s few months back with s view to exploring the commercialisation of iridh Lights Assets...again ; could be worth a call to present your case...

You could also wtite to the Irish Landmark Trust who fundraisd and preserve distinct irish historic properties. I wonder if they know what is happeni.g to our historic lighthouse boats.. they have preserved a few lighthouses...

Judgement Day

News from Arklow c/o Afloat.ie

Thursday, 04 October 2012

Another Lightship Extinguished into History

http://afloat.ie/port-news/lighthouses/item/20046-another-lightship-extinguished-into-history

LIGHTSHIPS – As each day passes, quite literally chunks of Irish maritime heritage are been rapidly consigned to history, as work on scrapping the former lightship ALF Skua takes place on the North Quay in Arklow, writes Jehan Ashmore.

As the vessel lies forlornly alongside her River Avoca berth, a blowtorch cuts away in earnest at the steelwork. In tandem a crane-grabber lifts large sections of the red painted Ship and loaded into an awaiting quayside truck.
What remains as of this week is only the hull, as the bridge, deckhouse structure and lantern have gone, having said that the latter structure was removed years ago.

When the lightship was towed into the Port, several elected members of Arklow Town Council, with a seafaring back-round prevailed in the public body to acquire the lantern. The structure however still remains yet to be located to an appropriate site, as according to the council they have no definite plans for the lantern, though it is envisaged that it would be at least placed in a municipal location.

For decades the lightship served several stations off the Irish coastline, having been completed in 1960 by Philip & Sons of Dartmouth for the Commissioners of Irish Lights (CIL). Constructed of steel, the 134 foot lightship, cost £124,128 when launched in the Devon shipyard, though her crew were replaced when converted to an automatic light float (ALF) in 1981/82.

The vessel's designation as an ALF lasted for more than two decades until Irish Lights sold the lightship to Arklow Shipping Ltd in 2005, however she has since changed hands while moored in the Co. Wicklow Port.
Nearby to where the Skua is berthed, a lantern belonging to an older lightship fleetmate, the Albratross (built 1925), was kept to form a distinctive landmark at the entrance to Arklow Marina.

With the diminishing Skua, it is believed that only two such ships survive on this island. The ALF Kittiwake (built 1959) as previously reported on Afloat.ie is in Dublin Port, however she shifted berths several months from her prominent position opposite the 02 Theatre to the jetty within Alexandra Basin, which is hidden away from general view in the working Port.
The other lightship the Petrel, was built by Dublin Dockyard between 1913-15. She remains as a floating clubhouse for the Down Cruising Club in Strangford Lough, having been towed to the lough by the lighthouse tender ILV Isolda during the late 1960's.

As for the last lightship to serve, the honour was left to the ALF Gannet. She was stationed at South Rock, off Co. Down until her decommissioning in 2009 when Irish Lights replaced the lightship with a new 'Superbuoy'.



"Skua" lying alongside the quayside in Arklow.
Photo: http://www.wicklowmaritime.com

The light from another victim "Albatross" can be seen adorning the apartment complex in the background. :rolleyes:

gobnaitolunacy

JustAThought wrote: »

Dorothy Cross did.an."instillation" with one a.few.years.back. I think it was *based out in Dun Laoghaire. I remember seeing info on it in IMMA - the.Irish Museum for.Modern "Art"
They might be able to help but you'd want to say your doing.g.art.research on Dorothy otherwise I doubt they*d be interested. they*really typically particularly unhelpful but LOVE Dorothy Cross indeed

Reminds me of an episode of Only Fools and Horses and a luminous headstone.

Judgement Day

Popped over to Waterford today to view Keighery's (City Auction Rooms) forthcoming sale of the residue contents from the ill-fated "Guillemot Maritime Museum". It turned out to be something of a wild goose chase as the several of the items that I was interested in had been withdrawn due to 'official' intervention. It strikes me as a bit late in the day for the Commissioners of Irish Lights to be developing an interest in their heritage. Despite the withdrawals, there's much else of interest in the sale but be warned a lot of items are well past their sell by date and there's some out and out rubbish.

Catalogue here: http://www.cityauctionrooms.com/BidCat/Catalogues.asp?F1=3072&F2=4169&F4=1054&select=0069&status=C


The original bell from the "Guillemot" as supplied in 1923. The bell is still included in the sale.


An interesting board - presumably from CIL HQ in Dun Laoghaire - showing the disposition of various lightships. Withdrawn!

And below what would have been the star of the show, an ultra rare plaque - far more impressive than pic indicates - which was carried aboard CIL vessels. Withdrawn!

Strumms

The Osprey is moored up at Quai de la Gare on the Seine in Paris. By day they serve food by night they put on gigs and dj sets etc. I've been there a couple of times and its a weird but great venue. Really cool bar downstairs and in summer you can sit out on deck where there is another bar and music etc. it is now called Batofar...


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Le_Batofar

Judgement Day

The ongoing saga surrounding the fate of Ireland's lightships is almost surreal with the latest twist being the sale - on eBay - of the "Arctic Penguin" formerly "Penguin". Currently moored at Inveraray in Scotland the vessel is on offer for £180,000.00. Full details below:



http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Schooner-Boat-Live-Aboard-House-Boat-Sailing-Ship-Conversion-Sail-/261162021441?pt=UK_Sporting_Goods_Sailing_Boats_ET&hash=item3cce783241

---

Fancy a lifestyle change? Iron sailing ship. Amazing conversion opportunity to have your own three masted schooner sailing ship or static house boat.

99.93' x 24'Beam x 11 'Draft. Iron Shell and Floors, Steel Framing.

Built originally as the Light Vessel "Penguin" 1911 a role in which she served until 1966;
During the 1980's she was converted to sail - her two foremasts being added and of course the Kelvin diesel engines.

Since the mid 1990's she has operated as a museum and cafe; The museum and cafe have operated very successfully to the end of the 2010 season.

The Museum Directors have a flexible approach to the vessels future and are happy to assist potential new owners to perhaps have the vessel remain where she is currently berthed.

As a Registered Museum with a trading history she may be in a position to attract grants and funding.

Currently laid out with a welcoming gangway entrance, customers may choose to buy a museum ticket or just- takeaway and stroll or of course be guests of the cafe, sitting comfortably in the deck house or in dry weather on the sheltered foredeck, a purchaser of the museum should if they so wish continue to operate the cafe within the ship, it is the current intension to include all fixtures and fittings provided the asking price is offered:-furthermore we are assured the ship/museum has Argyll and Bute planning permission to operate where she lies, continuation to lie at the pier would be by negotiation with the piers owners who we are assured would be unlikely to unreasonably withhold such permissions.

Museum guests may explore the topsides of the ship from forecastle and forepeak to the afterdeck steering position and the raised aft saloon, while below decks the "For'd Tween Deck" provides the principal exhibition space, aft of this the full width machinery space could be considered the "Main Tween Deck", aft of this is the athwartship cinema:-aft again is the mostly original Masters Cabin then aft again to the rudder flat and afterpeak, these areas are currently used to the full with public access and interesting displays.

Filmwork on and around the Ship has provided income and interest- she has featured in the Onedin Line and many films since.

Alan Villiers book about buying and sailing the "Joseph Conrad" 57,000 miles is relevant to anyone wishing to re-rig the Arctic Penquin as both ships bear a striking similarity.

Whatever or wherever your interest in this valuable ship may lie please contact us for further information.

Further information on the vessel can be found at www.inveraraypier.com under heading - Arctic Penguin.

No reasonable offer refused may also part exchange Property/Boats/Cars? Open to suggestions.

---

Given that the vessel also served as a sail training vessel, I suppose it's hoping to much that the Irish authorities might consider purchasing her as a temporary replacement to the "Asgard II".

mike65

taken by me in 1992/3

Judgement Day

"Arctic Penguin" is still for sale over on eBay and I have just done a piece on my blog here: http://insatiablecollector.wordpress.com/ which includes a couple of interesting photos.

Judgement Day

Only 40 minutes to go over on eBay for the "Arctic Penguin" and the owners have now thrown in the Inveraray Pier too - at no extra cost! £180,000 ono - surely there's someone out there?

DavidGD

A quick correction to the 2008 post about Cormorant becoming LV24 and continuing in service. The original Cormorant, built in 1878, is moored in Hoo, Kent and being converted into a houseboat/ship. Too late for restoration, it is a case of preservation as she is one of the very few iron/teak lightships still afloat. LV24 was Cormorant II, built in 1964.

DavidGD

Further to my post yesterday. My son has recently bought the Cormorant, which has a chequered history. She was built in 1876/78 by the Victoria Shipbuilding Co., West Passage Cork, Ireland. She was 91 ft long, 21 ft wide and her draft was 11ft. She cost £7.500 to build and served on many Irish stations. Her construction was a composite of teak planking over Iron Frames.

In 1942 she was sold to the Belfast Harbour Commissioners and renamed "Lady Dixon" after the Harbour Masters wife.

In the 1940s and 1950s she is reputed to have been used as the Belfast Pilot Station, but I am doubtful about this as the only photo available does not, in my opinion, show the same vessel (see photo).

Later in life she was destined to become a pirate radio station, but Customs and Excise intervened!

Later she is reputed to have been moored at Pitsea and converted to a houseboat under her original title of Cormorant (not to be confused with a later lightship called Cormorant II built in 1964).

Now she is moored at Hoo near Rochester. Only one third of the above deck accommodation is habitable and below deck is in a poor state and bare. It is too late for preservation, so my son is following the conservation route. It will be a houseboat (houseship?) but with as many of the original features preserved as remain at present. The 'stumps' of the main and the mizzen masts are still there below deck, but nothing above.

We can find only one picture of the vessel (see photo) which we assume was during her time in Pitsea as a houseboat or houseboat project. We would love to find out what she looked like originally and any other history.
David

Judgement Day

Good luck with the preservation/restoration project. Perhaps you could do a blog like the one for "Gannet" http://lightshipgannet.blogspot.ie/ and keep us informed with progress. I have been unable to find any pics of Cormorant other than the houseboat one that you posted but I'll keep you in mind if I find anything.

DavidGD

Thanks. I will have a go at a blog, but have no experience with such things! Any important discoveries I can post here.
David

Freedive Ireland

Fantatsic project best of luck with it. Be great to see the updates.

DavidGD

More by luck than judgement, I am now a blogger - your fault Judgement Day!
A first, tentative post can be seen at

http://cormorantlightship.blogspot.co.uk

David

Judgement Day

DavidGD wrote: »

More by luck than judgement, I am now a blogger - your fault Judgement Day!
A first, tentative post can be seen at

http://cormorantlightship.blogspot.co.uk

David

It's addictive! I have added you as a link on my blog here: http://insatiablecollector.wordpress.com/ I really need a dedicated lightship one.

pedroeibar1

Walter Hayward Young the artist (probably best known for his work for Tuck & Sons, the postcard publishers) painted a few lightships as 'Jotter' - when he toured Ireland on one of his visits in the very early 1900s he did one of the Codling (I think) with another LV on the CIL West Pier moorings. I have it somewhere ..................

DavidGD

Thank you Pedroeibar1. That gives me a new line of enquiry. But for the moment I must get my blog up to date!
David

Judgement Day

pedroeibar1 wrote: »

Walter Hayward Young the artist (probably best known for his work for Tuck & Sons, the postcard publishers) painted a few lightships as 'Jotter' - when he toured Ireland on one of his visits in the very early 1900s he did one of the Codling (I think) with another LV on the CIL West Pier moorings. I have it somewhere ..................

This is the Dun Laoghaire one by 'Jotter' - I haven't come across any others but given that he got everywhere I shouldn't be surprised if he painted more lightships.

DavidGD

I have had a close look at the photograph of the Belfast Pilot Station vessel and compared its dimensions etc to those of Cormorant/Lady Dixon.
In addition to the shape of the bow and that of the stern being very different, the measurements of bow to superstructure; superstructure; superstructure to stern; and distance between masts is significantly different to Cormorant. This is in addition to the length (measured using the 6ft man) is 15ft shorter than Cormorant.
I therefore surmise that this is not Cormorant, in spite of all the reports claiming it is - plus the opinion of the chap who took the photo!
So more investigation needed and I can see a trip the the Public Records Office in Belfast coming up!
David

DavidGD

Meanwhile, in the National Archives, I have found reference to a request by the Belfast Harbour Commissioners in 1943, for a registration survey and tonnage measurement to be made in Dublin. I have requested a copy.
David

DavidGD

Meanwhile, come on all you naval types, the keel on Simon's ship has a bracket on it which is rather hinge-like. (see photo). Would these engine-less vessels have needed a rudder? Would the mechanism have penetrated the hull through a gland? There is no obvious trace of mechanism inside but there is a large plate in just the right area..... (photo)
David

HeidiHeidi

I have no idea of the answer to your question, I'm afraid, but had to come on here to say.....

That looks like the absoulute mother and father of a project your son has taken on :eek:

More power to him, and I wish him the best with it - I look forward to reading the updates!

DavidGD

Hi Heidi
You are absolutely right, it is one hell of a project. At least he is able to live aboard in 'relative' comfort, which improves as the work proceeds.
I will be reporting major advances here, but if you want the nitty gritty, I have been persuaded to start a blog (not even knowing what a blog was) and you can read it at http://cormorantlightship.blogspot.co.uk
David

DavidGD

STOP PRESS: The National Archives also has a document from the Belfast Harbour Commissioners referring to the Lady Dixon being used as a Pilot Station complete with accommodation, and the document has apparently got plans attached! I have asked for a copy…….
David

pedroeibar1

David,
Have you been in contact with the Commissioners of Irish Lights (CIL) in Dublin? They have an annual magazine ‘Beam’ that always has a ‘history’ article or two and the readership is mainly CIL/ex-CIL employees, along with those in the other lighthouse authorities. Past issues of 'Beam' are downloadable (free) on the CIL site.
I’d bet that a letter to Beam's editor on what is being done to the Cormorant would be published and would produce a positive result, as many of the CIL people had parents/grandparents in the lighthouse service.
P.
PS - on the 'Jotter' series I have not located the cards, I think one is the same as that posted by J Day but there certainly is another of Dunlaoghaire I think from the East Pier....

DavidGD

Thanks Pedro, I will contact CIL - can't think why I haven't tried it before.
I don't understand your PS. Never heard of the 'Jotter' series......
David

pedroeibar1

DavidGD wrote: »

Thanks Pedro, I will contact CIL - can't think why I haven't tried it before.
I don't understand your PS. Never heard of the 'Jotter' series......
David

They have a few mentions of Cormorant on their site -

Cormorant Built 1876/78 by Victoria Shipbuilding Co, Passage West, Cork; length 91 feet, breadth 21 feet depth 11 feet; construction composite: iron frame, two thicknesses of 3 inch teak, sheathed with yellow metal; steel mast and fixed lantern; mizzen mast carrying day mark; cost £7,500; sold in 1942 to Belfast Harbour Commissioners, re named Lady Dixon. Established as Belfast pilot station, moored south of Carrickfergus from 1943 to 1959 with light & fog signal. Subsequently owned by Peter Horlock and moored at Mistley on the River Orwell in England. Subsequently sold to Graham Reeve and moored at Milton Creek near Sittingbourne. Bought c. 1990 by Terry Middleton who renamed her The Lady Dixonand moored at Hoo Marina, near Chatham on the River Medway in Kent. Sold to Gary and Christina Burton in 2008 and renamed Lady December and still moored at Hoo, Nr Rochester in Kent.

CIL has (had?? -huge cutbacks there) an archivist , a man named Pelly; in addition to contacting the 'Beam' editor it probably be best to talk to him first. I obtained info from CIL ages ago and found them very helpful.

Ignore the 'Jotter' comment, it was aimed more at Judgement Day on postcards in which lightships were included..

DavidGD

Thanks again Pedro. I have sent an e-mail to Frank Pelly today, but the Beam newsletter is no longer published - economy measures apparently. Hopefully Frank will have some gems to offer.....
David

DavidGD

While I have convinced myself that Simon's vessel is not the same one as depicted in the Belfast Pilot Station photograph (see Chapter 6), I am now very confident that it is the same vessel as depicted in the 1960s photograph of Lady Dixon taken I believe in Pitsea. (If I knew how to insert a photo from my PC, I would do so here!)

With the aid of my trusty computer, I traced the main features of this ship and transferred them onto a photograph of the Beast, which I took on a recent visit. The angle of the two vessels is not quite the same - had I planned ahead I would have stood a couple of feet further along - so some of the features do not quite match up. However I think that with an adjustment in camera angle, they will. (I cannot insert a photo without a URL - whatever that is).

The bulwark has long since disappeared, but otherwise it is a very good match. Incidentally, a number of the original stanchions/ribs that supported the bulwark are still there and Simon has bought over 50ft of suitable timber to replace the missing/unusable ones. The timber - reclaimed roof joists - he got at a real knock-down price (good old eBay!). He does not plan to fill in with planks as original, but will have a ship's rail on top and a safety rail at the half height level for most of the ship, with a built in curve at the stern, with built in seating. Something like this ..... no, sorry, cannot fathom how to do this!

Meanwhile, if Lady Dixon and the Beast are the same ship and the Pilot Station and the Beast are not, then the red Lady Dixon and the Pilot Station are also not the same ship. So what has gone on between the lightship called Cormorant and the Pilot Station called Lady Dixon; and the Pilot Station called Lady Dixon and the red ship called Lady Dixon?? I am hoping the two documents from the National Archives might throw some light on the matter.
David