Collins Revisionism

pedroeibar1

snafuk35 wrote: »

The historical concensus is that Denis "Sonny" O'Neill, a former British marksman who joined the IRA was the man who shot Collins.
Collins was killed by a bullet that entered the left side of his forehead above the hairline (no doubt when his right cheek was against the stock of his .303 Lee Enfield as he was firing at IRA members fleeing along a lane on high ground above the roadway where he was standing in the open).
The bullet carried an air pocket and fragments of bone to travel in front of it when it exited the back of his skull blowing out a massive wound.
O'Neill is believed to have killed Collins with an elephant gun (it is said he got rid of the gun subsequently so it would not be traced) and may have used a dum dum round which would have expanded and might have created the massive wound described by his comrades and doctors who saw the body.

I doubt this because it is a very strange choice of firearm, certainly not one a trained marksman would select for guerilla tactics/sniping. Firstly, an elephant gun is a ‘stopping’ weapon, not a sniper gun. In 1920’s Ireland such a gun would have been most uncommon and unlikely to be found outside a ‘Big House’ gunroom. Most were 4 bore (means that they fired a 4 ounce projectile, slightly smaller than a golfball) and most were smooth bore, not rifled, which means they were not very accurate. It would have been almost impossible to obtain 4b ammunition and would have been a nightmare to carry/use in the field as it weighs more than 20 lbs, more than double the weight of a Lee Enfield .303 and three times the weight of a shotgun.

A Lee Enfield would have been a much more likely firearm, more accurate at longer ranges, more commonly found and more portable. Also, its bullet would leave a very large exit wound if it hit bone on entry.

snafuk35

pedroeibar1 wrote: »

I doubt this because it is a very strange choice of firearm, certainly not one a trained marksman would select for guerilla tactics/sniping. Firstly, an elephant gun is a ‘stopping’ weapon, not a sniper gun. In 1920’s Ireland such a gun would have been most uncommon and unlikely to be found outside a ‘Big House’ gunroom. Most were 4 bore (means that they fired a 4 ounce projectile, slightly smaller than a golfball) and most were smooth bore, not rifled, which means they were not very accurate. It would have been almost impossible to obtain 4b ammunition and would have been a nightmare to carry/use in the field as it weighs more than 20 lbs, more than double the weight of a Lee Enfield .303 and three times the weight of a shotgun.

A Lee Enfield would have been a much more likely firearm, more accurate at longer ranges, more commonly found and more portable. Also, its bullet would leave a very large exit wound if it hit bone on entry.

I agree.

digzy

good thread lads. thought I knew it all after my a1 in the leaving cert history exam, but there's a few gaps!

just wondering if there's any update on the allegations of collins being involved in a clandestine discussion with a specific british envoy prior to the ceasefire? I have a vague recollection of vincent browne speculating it on his show but must've fell asleep!

snafuk35

digzy wrote: »

good thread lads. thought I knew it all after my a1 in the leaving cert history exam, but there's a few gaps!

just wondering if there's any update on the allegations of collins being involved in clandestine discussion with a british envoy prior to the ceasefire? I have a vague recollection of vincent browne speculating it on his show but must've fell asleep!

Those aren't allegations. It's a matter of fact.
There were behind the scenes discussions via intermediaries between the Irish and British leaderships long before the Truce in 1921.
The same thing goes on in all conflicts.

Fuinseog

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5Z1dqJzxNo&feature=g-vrec

tac foley

'Savage Eye' is to AGS as 'Father Ted' was to the RC Church.

tac