Bóthar na dTreabh

seriouslysweet

I say bóthar na drav (rhymes with chav), is that correct?

fishy fishy

I personally would pronounce it to rhyme with the female name Meadbh

shinnyjosiedan

Seriously sweet perfect pronunciation!! Am a fluent Irish speaker and pronounce it the same way

Malice

seriouslysweet wrote: »

I say bóthar na drav (rhymes with chav), is that correct?

Sounds correct to me.

gaeilgegrinds1

By any chance is this as a result of listening to 4fm, they pronounce it woefully...

fishy fishy

I suppose it all depends on how you speak the language - fluent speakers from the east can get very upset with fluent speakers from the west and vice versa over "pronunciations". Not to mention connemara speakers, vs Aran Island speakers. And N. Ireland speakers vs Dublin/Galway speakers.

Everybody thinks their was is the right way.

for instance: go maith, (is it "go MAI or go MAH). And which is right.

Malice

gaeilgegrinds1 wrote: »

By any chance is this as a result of listening to 4fm, they pronounce it woefully...

Not in my case anyway, at least not intentionally. How do they pronounce it? I'm pronouncing it the same way I'd pronounce Irish words spelt similarly like leanbh or tarbh.

TobyZiegler

Yep you are correct. There is no fada on the e so 'drav' is right.

gaeilgegrinds1

They say drave, as in rhymes with rave?

confuseddotcom

I would say drav like have but by no means am sure. I reckon though that if it was like Maeve or cave, there'd be a fada on the e.

fishy fishy

TobyZiegler wrote: »

Yep you are correct. There is no fada on the e so 'drav' is right.

toby, what is the right way to pronounce Maeve (Meadbh) then. Does the same rule apply? Also, my previous example above "go maith".

Is it not just a regional thing rather than a pronunciation thing?

My Irish grammar was always atrocious - I think thats what put me off learning it in school.

gaeilgegrinds1

It's drav, as in rhymes with chav. There is no fada.
Meabh/Meadhbh rhymes with wave...

fishy fishy

gaeilgegrinds1 wrote: »

It's drav, as in rhymes with chav. There is no fada.
Meabh/Meadhbh rhymes with wave...

so the "eabh" in Meabh is pronounced to rhyme with "wave" (no fada)
but the "eabh" in dTreabh is pronounced to rhyme with "chav" (again no fada)

I think this is why people get very very confused with learning irish.

For instance - people who live in Bearna, call it bArna, but I think there is a special rule for the "ea" when there is an R after it which changes it to an "a" sound.

but what would be the different with the "eabh" on the two words above - there are no "fada"s involved

gaeilgegrinds1

It's Treabh, so you can't just take a part of it. That's like asking why ea or oi sounds a certain way in English, they change depending on what comes before or after.

fishy fishy

gaeilgegrinds1 wrote: »

It's Treabh, so you can't just take a part of it. That's like asking why ea or oi sounds a certain way in English, they change depending on what comes before or after.

i get ya, I think. so there is no definite pronunciation for "eabh" - it all depends on what comes before it. Sometimes its "eabh" and somethings is "chav". Where does the fada come in then - I thought the fada were used to change the pronunciation. But there are no fada in this word. Would it definitely not be down to regionality.

what about "go maith" - how would you or anyone pronounce that? some say "go mai" and some say "go mah" - which is the right one here? Or would it come down to regionaality? FTR I would pronounce it "go mah" but Ive been told thats the wrong way also.

No wonder people came out of school hating the language.

gaeilgegrinds1

I'm pretty sure that could be said about any subject. None of my class hated it, we had a savage teacher and very positive attitude.
Fadas elongate the vowel sound, you essentially just drop your jaw saying it.

fishy fishy

gaeilgegrinds1 wrote: »

I'm pretty sure that could be said about any subject. None of my class hated it, we had a savage teacher and very positive attitude.
Fadas elongate the vowel sound, you essentially just drop your jaw saying it.

it was the grammar that got me - I can speak Irish and hold a small conversation in it no problem but wouldn't be able to catch onto the grammar.I just remember having a chat with someone in irish and being told that "go mah" was wrong - that it was "go Mai" - we were always taught it the way I said it so was wondering about that. would you have an opinion on that. very confusing.

I know there is frightful competition about the "right" Irish, especially in the West - every locality has the "right" Irish and they get extremely uptight about it. So even a small error in a pronunciation can cast you out over this side :D

gaeilgegrinds1

Forget that nonsense,sure it happens in English too. Just do your best and get on with it is my attitude. Nobody is perfect! As for the grammar, English grammar isn't exactly a forte of many people here either so I wouldn't worry.

I seen...
I done...

My ears!!!

fishy fishy

gaeilgegrinds1 wrote: »

Forget that nonsense,sure it happens in English too. Just do your best and get on with it is my attitude. Nobody is perfect! As for the grammar, English grammar isn't exactly a forte of many people here either so I wouldn't worry.

I seen...
I done...

My ears!!!

ya, sure i can get my point across anyway when I speak it so thats all that is really needed anyway unless you want to speak it professionally. Thanks

Funny story - I went to the Aras in Galway to actually attend improvement classes - the teacher there was from the North - EVERY SECOND word was pronounced differently - it was like chinese to me :D did two classes and spent the rest of the time downstairs trying to chat to the bartender in Irish.

Mrs OBumble

I say "Bothar-what's it ... the eastern distributor road thing" - and most people understand what I mean.

antoobrien

fishy fishy wrote: »

what about "go maith" - how would you or anyone pronounce that? some say "go mai" and some say "go mah" - which is the right one here? Or would it come down to regionaality?

Regionality, Listen to the news on TG4, there's a good mix of the three dialects there. AFAIK go "mai" is more northern, where we'd usually say "mah"

anyhows back to the Bnt, drav is probably the closest anglicization of it that sounds right.

antoobrien

JustMary wrote: »

I say "Bothar-what's it ... the eastern distributor road thing" - and most people understand what I mean.

When they don't know what I'm talking about I usually settle for the Gardai's favourite speed trap.

Malice

fishy fishy wrote: »

For instance - people who live in Bearna, call it bArna

The Irish word Bearna should be pronounced to sound roughly like "Byarna" shouldn't it? The English word Barna is pronounced as you've written it. Unless of course you're dealing with one of those posh folks, then you'll hear it pronounced as "Borna" or "Bornah" .

snubbleste

The cheek of the Council to name roads that blow-ins cannot pronounce :cool:

snubbleste

Also, where does Bóthar na dTreabh begin and end? Is it the N6 from the Coolagh roundabout west to the Corrib Park roundabout?

antoobrien

snubbleste wrote: »

Also, where does Bóthar na dTreabh begin and end? Is it the N6 from the Coolagh roundabout west to the Corrib Park roundabout?

BNT is the new road opened in the late 80s from Tirellan (Kirwan RAB) and extended in the 90s to Doughiksa (Martin RAB). The roads from Tireallan to Corrib Park retain their original names.

See the Galway City maps for more details.

Dravokivich

gaeilgegrinds1 wrote: »

It's drav, as in rhymes with chav. There is no fada.
Meabh/Meadhbh rhymes with wave...

And short for Dravokivich.

Mrs OBumble

snubbleste wrote: »

The cheek of the Council to name roads that blow-ins cannot pronounce :cool:

I have no problem with the fact of Irish names (to help you all grow self-esteem and recover from your post-colonial stress disorder )

Just wish that there were some official pronounciation guides around, and that Irish speakers didn't mumble so much.

This thread has been very helpful.

barryd09

I refer to it as muppets road.

The road where muppets think its ok to U-Turn half way up it because of a mild tailback.

Storm 10

barryd09 wrote: »

I refer to it as muppets road.

The road where muppets think its ok to U-Turn half way up it because of a mild tailback.

To be honest with you I dont think I ever saw a "Mild" tailback on that road when its jammed its jammed going nowhere fast.

dlofnep

fishy fishy wrote: »

so the "eabh" in Meabh is pronounced to rhyme with "wave" (no fada)
but the "eabh" in dTreabh is pronounced to rhyme with "chav" (again no fada)

I think this is why people get very very confused with learning irish.

Méabh has a fada. That is why the 'ay' sound is present.

Treabh = Trav, as in travellers.

barryd09

Storm 10 wrote: »

barryd09 wrote: »

I refer to it as muppets road.

The road where muppets think its ok to U-Turn half way up it because of a mild tailback.

To be honest with you I dont think I ever saw a "Mild" tailback on that road when its jammed its jammed going nowhere fast.

Still doesnt excuse people u-turning on it into two on coming lanes.

gaeilgegrinds1

I checked with a grammar expert who told me the fada on Meabh is not essential...

fishy fishy

dlofnep wrote: »

Méabh has a fada. That is why the 'ay' sound is present.

Treabh = Trav, as in travellers.

I have never ever seen a fada on the name Maebh/Maedbh in my life.

dlofnep

fishy fishy wrote: »

I have never ever seen a fada on the name Maebh/Maedbh in my life.

I said Méabh, not Maebh.

Aebh = ave

Eabh = av

KevR

It's pronounced "Northern Ring Road".

ttenneb

Are we referring to the route mentioned on RTE radio traffic news? What I'm hearing is Bothar na DRAB. I thought, how could anyone live in such a place? It seems the AA correspondent doesn't understand the effect of the final "h". With regard to Meabh not having a fada, is it because (as far as I remember) the name can be spelled with a few extra letters? Meadhabh? Maedhbh? It's hurting already.

snubbleste

ttenneb wrote: »

Are we referring to the route mentioned on RTE radio traffic news? What I'm hearing is Bothar na DRAB. I thought, how could anyone live in such a place? It seems the AA correspondent doesn't understand the effect of the final "h". With regard to Meabh not having a fada, is it because (as far as I remember) the name can be spelled with a few extra letters? Meadhabh? Maedhbh? It's hurting already.

AAroadwatch are woeful
BallyBain
Jail Road

Mrs OBumble

snubbleste wrote: »

AAroadwatch are woeful
Jail Road

What's woeful about that?

One day I heard "goal" pronounced some other way, and wondered what on earth the person was smoking.

snubbleste

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

What's woeful about that?
One day I heard "goal" pronounced some other way, and wondered what on earth the person was smoking.

Jail Road does not exist

thesandeman

snubbleste wrote: »

Jail Road does not exist

Yes it does.



But it's in New Delhi.

dubhthach

ea has a value of /a/ in Irish when stressed except before rl, rn, rd and before syllable-final ll, nn, rr when it has a value of /a:/

like all vowel's it has a value of /ə/ when it's unstressed.

Technically speaking in modern Irish it would be impossible to get pronunciation [mʲeːv] without the fada on the e (eg. Méabh), in case of old style spelling Meadhbh well 'eadh' forms a Diphthong in Irish with a value of /əi/, in Old and Early modern Irish you had different vowel sound anyways (likewise the -dh- was also pronounced, so name would have sounded quite different!)

In the case of Treabh/dTreabh you can celarly hear the /a/ value that the ea has.

Mrs OBumble

snubbleste wrote: »

Jail Road does not exist

So what would you call the road around the south and west of the Cathedral, and how would you pronounce it?

thesandeman

That's Gaol Road. Pronunciation is the same.

snubbleste

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

So what would you call the road around the south and west of the Cathedral, and how would you pronounce it?

Bóthar an Phríosúin
and I'd pronounce the way I always have

Mrs OBumble

snubbleste wrote: »

Bóthar an Phríosúin
and I'd pronounce the way I always have

Ahh, it seems that the city council haven't caught up with you on this - here's a pic from their on-line planning map:



Pronounced the same as "jail".

Diabhal Beag

Think the Council deserve some credit for abandoning Irish to the point of using Shakespearean translations instead.

dubhthach

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Ahh, it seems that the city council haven't caught up with you on this - here's a pic from their on-line planning map:



Pronounced the same as "jail".

How else would you pronounce Gaol

Surely it should be that "jail" is pronounced the same as Gaol

Mrs OBumble

dubhthach wrote: »

How else would you pronounce Gaol

Surely it should be that "jail" is pronounced the same as Gaol

I have no idea, but the poster from here thinks it should be some other way.

dubhthach

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

I have no idea, but the poster from here thinks it should be some other way.

http://www.forvo.com/word/gaol/#en



The Irish word "gaol" of course means completely different thing.

snubbleste

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

I have no idea, but the poster from here thinks it should be some other way.

Och!
The aa roadwatch person said the area was busy around 'Jail Road' during the Novena. She should have said 'Gaol Road'.
It was not a mispronunciation, they got the name of the road wrong completely.