First we had 'Legitimate Rape', now there's 'Rape creates Extraordinary People'

g'em

From Gawker:

Why is everybody so down on rape? This is what Mike Huckabee wanted to know today, on his radio program, which also featured Rep. Todd "Legitimate Rape" Akin as a guest. For instance, did you know that Ethel Waters was conceived when her mother got raped? Do you know what a world without rape would look like? A world without Ethel Waters, that's what.

This is what Mike Huckabee said today, as transcribed by the Los Angeles Times' James Rainey, about the upside of being raped and then getting pregnant:

"Ethel Waters, for example, was the result of a forcible rape," Huckabee said of the late American gospel singer. One-time presidential candidate Huckabee added: "I used to work for James Robison back in the 1970s, he leads a large Christian organization. He, himself, was the result of a forcible rape. And so I know it happens, and yet even from those horrible, horrible tragedies of rape, which are inexcusable and indefensible, life has come and sometimes, you know, those people are able to do extraordinary things."

For once I'm genuinely at a loss for words...

Diapason

Surely at some point even the average rank-and-file mouthbreather must think "this isn't right". Real news at the moment is virtually indistinguishable from The Onion.

Tombi!

I can see his point completely but he's completely insane if he thinks that it's a logical or even something you'd say to any normal person.
If anything wouldn't the extraordinary people be the mothers rather than the kids?

I'm still trying to understand why he said that about rape.

g'em

Brutal Deluxe wrote: »

I'm still trying to understand why he said that about rape.

Huckabee? It was on his syndicated radio show that also had Todd Akin on it. I guess he was trying to smooth over the crevasses of destruction that his good buddy the Toddmeister had said not 24 hours previously. This guy is a previous Governor of Arkansas and was at one time in the running for Presidential Candidate.

Extraordinary rape-babies for some, miniature flags for others. Such is the Republican way.

Logical Fallacy

What the **** is up with these guys and the trend of putting qualifiers before the word rape? Are they trying to say there is "fake rape" and "pretend rape" or something?

AnonoBoy

Rape - it seems like there's nothing it can't do in the eyes of American politicians.

Tombi!

g'em wrote: »

Huckabee? It was on his syndicated radio show that also had Todd Akin on it. I guess he was trying to smooth over the crevasses of destruction that his good buddy the Toddmeister had said not 24 hours previously. This guy is a previous Governor of Arkansas and was at one time in the running for Presidential Candidate.

Extraordinary rape-babies for some, miniature flags for others. Such is the Republican way.

I dunno about politics, really. So I'm not sure what republicans fit into.

I remember yer man alright yesterday, I think. The chap who said that tripe about legitimate rape not being that common during rapes and then we have someone trying to cover for him by saying pregnancies through rape is a good thing?

People look at North Korea as being messed up and often forget just how screwed up America is. It's genuinely frightening to think.

Nodin

g'em wrote: »

From Gawker:



For once I'm genuinely at a loss for words...

One car crash piling into another.

jhegarty

g'em wrote: »

From Gawker:



For once I'm genuinely at a loss for words...

Except that's not what he said.

Here is the actual quote :

"Ethel Waters, for example, was the result of a forcible rape," Huckabee said of the late American gospel singer. One-time presidential candidate Huckabee added: "I used to work for James Robison back in the 1970s, he leads a large Christian organization. He, himself, was the result of a forcible rape. And so I know it happens, and yet even from those horrible, horrible tragedies of rape, which are inexcusable and indefensible, life has come and sometimes, you know, those people are able to do extraordinary things."

Tombi!

jhegarty wrote: »

Except that not what he said.

Here is the actual quote :

"Ethel Waters, for example, was the result of a forcible rape," Huckabee said of the late American gospel singer. One-time presidential candidate Huckabee added: "I used to work for James Robison back in the 1970s, he leads a large Christian organization. He, himself, was the result of a forcible rape. And so I know it happens, and yet even from those horrible, horrible tragedies of rape, which are inexcusable and indefensible, life has come and sometimes, you know, those people are able to do extraordinary things."

That's still messed up.
Well done, you admit rape exists. Now you're trying to make it out like it's "not always a bad thing if the women gets pregnant.".

g'em

jhegarty wrote: »

Except that's not what he said.

Here is the actual quote :

You're right, sorry. What I find inexcusable is that something as horrific a crime as rape is being turned on its head to find a positive. Instead of attending to and addressing the needs of a woman who has suffered from something so traumatising is she then supposed to sit back and think of the extraordinary babies that have come about as a result of such a trauma and think "well maybe I'll be one of the lucky ones?"

Tombi!

g'em wrote: »

You're right, sorry. What I find inexcusable is that something as horrific a crime as rape is being turned on its head to find a positive. Instead of attending to and addressing the needs of a woman who has suffered from something so traumatising is she then supposed to sit back and think of the extraordinary babies that have come about as a result of such a trauma and think "well maybe I'll be one of the lucky ones?"

Well after was the other man said, it had to have some sort of damage control.

I have a feeling the next one is going to be "all we were saying is that being raped and getting pregnant is a good thing; motherhood is something wonderful to experience".

Colmustard

A quote from a nobody gets a thread, the internet is amazing. Its a stupid argument, without rape we may not have had your woman whoever she is, or perhaps we never would have had Einstein or Mozart or Hitler or Stalin.

B0jangles

He also repeatedly uses the phrase "forcible rape", which to me suggests he believes that there is "non-forcible rape" which he thinks is less abhorrent.

Gyalist

There is a large bloc in the Republican Party that shares Akin's beliefs. They are only trying to mitigate his comments now because they know that it won't win them votes.

Rep. Todd Akin (R-Mo.) opened up a can of controversy on Sunday when he claimed that women who are the victims of "legitimate rape" are unlikely to become pregnant. (Akin was defending his belief that abortion should be illegal even in cases of rape and incest.) Then Akin, who is running against Democratic incumbent Claire McCaskill for Senate, issued the obligatory statement saying he simply misspoke and really feels very deeply for women who are raped.

But here's the thing: Akin didn't make this idea up. That women can't get pregnant when they're raped is a thing that some people actually believe. I stumbled across this several months ago while researching another story. It turns out to be an idea held and repeated by individuals who oppose abortion in any circumstance.

Todd Akin: Wrong, But Not Alone

Fenian Army

I think thats a reasonable enough thing to say, and I think the OP should change her post to show what actually was said and not a wildly spun version of it.


What he is getting at (I think) is that he thinks that pregnancy as a result of rape should not necessitate an abortion, the child and families involved can go on and have good, productive lives despite these horrible things.

He's certainly not saying rape is good.

Fenian Army

B0jangles wrote: »

He also repeatedly uses the phrase "forcible rape", which to me suggests he believes that there is "non-forcible rape" which he thinks is less abhorrent.

I read it as meaning violent rape rather than say date rape. (obviously all kinds of rape are abhorrent)

I'm not an american republican supporter(far from it) but I think people are being unfair on Huckabee.

Gyalist

dr.bollocko wrote: »

Two patterns emerging here in what is already a very dirty election lead in.

1. Just because 1 republican says something indefensible does not mean he speaks for the entire republican party.

Maybe you are just not paying close attention.

The Republican Party is set to once again enshrine into its official platform support for "a human life amendment" to the Constitution that would outlaw abortion without making explicit exemptions for rape or incest, according to draft language of the platform obtained exclusively by CNN late Monday.

LINK

Or the counterpoint
2. Any woman who votes republican in the upcoming election is dumb.

There are many women in the Republican Party who are leading the attempt to restrict reproductive rights.

LINK

B0jangles

Fenian Army wrote: »

I think thats a reasonable enough thing to say, and I think the OP should change her post to show what actually was said and not a wildly spun version of it.


What he is getting at (I think) is that he thinks that pregnancy as a result of rape should not necessitate an abortion, the child and families involved can go on and have good, productive lives despite these horrible things.

He's certainly not saying rape is good.

These are people who want to make it illegal for a woman to have an abortion even in the context of having become pregnant as the result of rape. Dressing it up by saying that fetus might grow up to be the next Einstein is just a frilly way to cover up the reality which is that they do not want the women involved to be able to choose what to do with their own bodies.

B0jangles

Fenian Army wrote: »

I read it as meaning violent rape rather than say date rape.

I'm not an american republican supporter(far from it) but I think people are being unfair on Huckabee.

Rape is rape - by attempting to divide rape into types like forcible and presumably non-forcible, they are trying to create the impression that these other types of rape aren't really proper rapes at all.

g'em

Point taken re: quote, I've included it. My bad.

Fenian Army wrote:

He's certainly not saying rape is good.

No, but he's encouraging people to look at a 'bright side' of rape. It's underhand emotional guilt-tripping. It's not reasonable in any way.

Tombi!

Fenian Army wrote: »

I read it as meaning violent rape rather than say date rape.

I'm not an american republican supporter(far from it) but I think people are being unfair on Huckabee.

Unfair?
Are you insane?

What if, for example, your family were all murdered and you're mourning and I say "hey, at least there's no chance of them going on to murder someone else so get over your family being murdered, it's not a bad thing
".
It's the same thing as "well, least you know your baby might grow up to be something special, so get over being raped, it's not a bad thing".

g'em

Fenian Army wrote: »

I read it as meaning violent rape rather than say date rape.

There's a difference?? That opinion right there is what every woman who brings a rape case to trial fears. There is no kinda bad rape or kinda excusable rape or kinda understandable rape. It's rape. End of.

Tombi!

g'em wrote: »

There's a difference?? That opinion right there is what every woman who brings a rape case to trial fears. There is no kinda bad rape or kinda excusable rape or kinda understandable rape. It's rape. End of.

Of course there is. Neither is better/worse than the other, though.
I think after the comment yesterday, they're basically trying to say "well if you pass out/get drugged/are scared to say no" it's "not that bad, you might get the next Nobel Prize winner as your baby".

It's still really messed up but at least that's how I saw it.

Fenian Army

Brutal Deluxe wrote: »

Unfair?
Are you insane?

What if, for example, your family were all murdered and you're mourning and I say "hey, at least there's no chance of them going on to murder someone else so get over your family being murdered, it's not a bad thing
".
It's the same thing as "well, least you know your baby might grow up to be something special, so get over being raped, it's not a bad thing".

I think people are being unfair on him given the way his words were spun and your attempt to read something (which I don't think is there) into his words regarding "forcible rape".

That's unfair.

I'm not saying I agree with the man fwiw.

ballsymchugh

is what he said about rape or abortion? seems to me like he was being more pro life in his statement than trying to legitimise rape

Tombi!

Fenian Army wrote: »

I think people are being unfair on him given the way his words were spun and your attempt to read something (which I don't think is there) into his words regarding "forcible rape".

That's unfair.

I'm not saying I agree with the man fwiw.

Well look at this part:
the result of a forcible rape. And so I know it happens, and yet even from those horrible, horrible tragedies of rape, which are inexcusable and indefensible, life has come and sometimes, you know, those people are able to do extraordinary things."

So basically: if you were forced into having sex and get pregnant, you might have a chance at having a great child.

You could have that chance with any child! I know you're not agreeing but come on, it's a very, very messed up thing to say.

Fenian Army

g'em wrote: »

There's a difference?? That opinion right there is what every woman who brings a rape case to trial fears. There is no kinda bad rape or kinda excusable rape or kinda understandable rape. It's rape. End of.

Did I say that?


No. (of course you knew that before your post).

cristoir

The stupidity from some members of the GOP is breathtaking. The economy appears fairly weak and there is a democratic incumbent in the white house. You'd think they would run on that. But no they want to fight a culture war they can't win instead.

B0jangles

Fenian Army wrote: »

Did I say that?


No. (of course you knew that before your post).

I have to point out, you did post this:

Fenian Army wrote: »

I read it as meaning violent rape rather than say date rape.

Which I took to mean that you think there is a meaningful distinction between the two, with date rape not being as bad.