RPSI Steam Failure sees NIR to the rescue!

Chrisplayfair

The Railway Preservation Society Of Ireland held their first of three "Portrush Flyers". However, things didn't get of to a great start. In the early hours of the morning GSWR Loco.186 was declared a failure at their base in Whitehead. As a result, NIR were contacted in relation to using one of their 111 Class Locos. Bearing in mind that 111 & 113 were in Londonderry with the relay project, this meant that 112 would be the locomotive summonned

Photos from various locations of the excursion here :

http://tiny.cc/n36ajw

Rud

Didn't 461 fail today at Kilkenny also?Apparently the set had to be brought to Dublin by 082 and 461 is dumped in Newbridge tonight.A bad day for the RPSI all round.Horrible,horrible luck

Chrisplayfair

That's correct...Not a great day...Not to mention 461 is due to run north on Tuesday for future Portrush Flyers, however I understand this has been cancelled as a result of today's problems.

shamwari

These things do happen, and whilst disappointing, they are not the end of the world. Nobody was left stranded, and as far as I am aware, the failure declared down south was precautionary and justified. As previously said, horrible horrible luck.

Drimnagh Road

461 was steaming badly on the way out, the Gullet was tackled okay, but it was while heading out through West Dublin that problems became apparent. Poor coal was blamed

A fifteen minute stop in Adamstown to investigate, then a long pathing stop in Sallins loop, low water pressure from the hydrant at Kildare, and another technical stop near Lavistown compounded the delay.

It was decided it would be best that 082 haul the train back, to avoid another 5+ hour journey home. 461 was hitching a ride back.

Threading carefully here, but it would appear that 461 was damaged while been hauled in train on the way back (082 hauling), and thus was taken off at Newbridge.

As an aside, 082 was bloody excellent and hellfire...

The vast majority of passengers were understanding and patient, the RPSI done their best throughout the day to deal with the problems as they happened, for example organising a new departure time from Kilkenny to ensure passengers got some time off the train.

flyingsnail

.

PORTRUSH FLYER

No.186's failure during lighting up at Whitehead on the morning of Sunday 19th August was discovered early enough to allow action to be taken.

NIR were contacted and a request made for one of their 111 GM locomotives. Luckily 112, the only available locomotive, was at York Road (111 and 113 are 'locked in' at Londonderry on the relay project). However, a significant shunt was required to extricate 112 from the depths of the yard before it could run light to Whitehead to pick up the carriages for the journey to Portrush.

Arriving in Portrush a few minutes ahead of schedule the locomotive ran round for the shuttle to Coleraine during the afternoon.

112 then worked the train back to Belfast Central, arriving one hour ahead of schedule. With a quick run round here, the train then ran back to Whitehead to drop the carriages off whilst 112 returned to York Road for stabling.

There were certainly some disappointed passengers on the fully-booked main train and, understandably, only 62 travelled on the "Portrush Coaster" to Coleraine, many choosing not to in the hope that steam would be there next Sunday.

Undaunted by the lack of steam, Mike Beckett has produced another fine video which will at least be appreciated by the diesel buffs. Warning: It does show a lot of dejected looking RPSI volunteers:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h2uwnX5CR6c&hd=1

The situation regarding No.186 is that a minor repair was being carried out last week but unfortunately we ran out of time to steam test the loco and only found out on Sunday that more work was necessary. It will be done this week together with testing and loco will hopefully be back in action by the weekend.

~~~~~

FESTIVAL EXPRESS

To compound the saga ...

The Festival Express was also operating on 19th August, from Dublin to Kilkenny.

Over 300 passengers boarded at Dublin Connolly. A punctual departure was achieved, and the journey was routine until beyond Inchicore when speed fell away, and it looked like there was a problem.

This proved to be all too correct and an extended stop was required at Adamstown to raise steam. The problem was not resolved, and a further extended stop was required at Sallins loop where fire cleaning was undertaken and clinker removed. The booked water stop was taken at Kildare, but departure from there was almost two hours late (also due to poor water pressure).

Further problems arose on the approach to Kilkenny. GM 082 was on hand anyway at Kilkenny to shunt the carriages and it was decided to use it to pilot No.461 back to Dublin, and the planned turning move on the triangle at Lavistown was abandoned. In view of the very late arrival at Kilkenny a later departure time was agreed and at 17:15 a diesel loco (GM 082), with No.461 and train, departed for Dublin.

However, during a stop at Newbridge No.461 was found to have developed excessive heat in a bearing, and there was no option but to remove her from the train. The locomotive was placed in the bay platform and the train proceeded to Dublin without further incident. Eventual arrival was after 20:00.

A big apology is due to our passengers who tolerated long delays, and a much too brief visit to Kilkenny. Their understanding and tolerance of the difficulties was greatly appreciated, and it is to be hoped that they will not be put off travelling in happier circumstances with us in the future.

No.461 is to be examined as soon as possible and a course of action decided upon.

Mec-a-nic

flyingsnail wrote: »

Over 300 passengers boarded at Dublin Connolly. A punctual departure was achieved, and the journey was routine until beyond Inchicore when speed fell away

...

Ack, two failures in one day is really bad luck.

It wasn't our day either. I had 4 tickets for the Kilkenny train but a '10:30 departure' was stuck in my head and I didn't check the tickets until leaving the house... Arriving in a big rush in Connolly at 10:15 was a not-good experience and we couldn't get to Kilkenny easily by bus/train (and we didn't know about the delays) so no trips for us.
Moral of the story - do what the RPSI instructions say - passengers should re-confirm the departure times on the tickets you receive.

Jamie2k9

There is a video of the service arriving Lavistwon North and departing Laivstown North with 082.

http://www.youtube.com/user/072Dunbell/videos

croleeka

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

There is a video of the service arriving Lavistwon North and departing Laivstown North with 082.

http://www.youtube.com/user/072Dunbell/videos

Great link Jamie, thanks for sharing. A good close up view of the 071 and 461. The 461 wheels look to be going considerably fast, I wonder did that have any impact on the wheel bearings?

CaptainFreedom

croleeka wrote: »

Great link Jamie, thanks for sharing. A good close up view of the 071 and 461. The 461 wheels look to be going considerably fast, I wonder did that have any impact on the wheel bearings?

If it was oiled up properly it should not. First time its done a bearing in the South though since its rebuild

RonanM123

Thanks to the failure my train was delayed 55 minutes which made me miss my bus home so had to wait an extra 2 hours in Waterford.

gawker

No. 461 has provided a nice little break from monotony for Newbridge commuters these past two days

lord lucan

Some good video of the spin down to Kilkenny and the shunting operation. Some great sound out of 082 too.:)

DannyGrey

Heard a report that todays Portrush Flyer hauled by 186 had to be hauled back to Whitehead by a NIR loco , this isnt good news for the RPSI thats 2 locos failed now, do they have a 3 rd loco that is fit for service at present

Chrisplayfair

That is most correct!

On Sunday 26th August 2012, The RPSI operated their second Portrush Flyer operating from Whitehead to Portrush & returning in the evening. The motive power for this trip was GSWR 186. The previous Sunday seen NIR's 112 haul the trip after 186 was declared a failure before departure. However, after departing Ballymena the locomotive began to suffer "steaming" problems causing it come to a stall near Cullybackey. After the dedicated crew worked at the locomotive, it was declared a failure and a crew were summoned to bring a rescue locomotive to the stricken train. By this stage it had turned 1400hrs despite leaving Belfast at 1115hrs and only 40 miles away!!!

NIR's GM 112 then ran light and pushed the train into Killagan Loop where two service trains passed. These were both delayed 120minutes as a result. 112 then hauled the entire train back to Whitehead via Belfast Central.

186 is due to work a charter train on the closed Antrim Branch on Weds 29th, however the status of this remains unconfirmed. It is most unlikely it will be steam hauled. Next week's Portrush Flyer's motive power awaits to be seen

Photos of the disaster online at :

http://chrisplayfair.smugmug.com/Railtours/2012-Railtour-Photos/RPSI-Portrush-Flyer-19th/24857666_CDbm6G

Hungerford

Chrisplayfair wrote: »

186 is due to work a charter train on the closed Antrim Branch on Weds 29th, however the status of this remains unconfirmed. It is most unlikely it will be steam hauled. Next week's Portrush Flyer's motive power awaits to be seen

This places the RPSI in a nasty situation. The problem with continuing to use 112 for haulage/rescue is that 111 and 113 are trapped in Derry due to the ongoing refurbishment of the Derry line. This means that if 112 fails, NIR's only option would be to dispatch the spare 201 from York Road to rescue it. But I doubt that 201s are allowed beyond York Road?

I don't have much sympathy for them to be honest. If they weren't so diesel-phobic, they would have maintained 141 and 142 in serviceable condition for situations like these. It would mean that they could continue to run charters with their own locomotives, abet with vintage diesel power rather than a steam engine.

CaptainFreedom

Hungerford wrote: »

I don't have much sympathy for them to be honest. If they weren't so diesel-phobic, they would have maintained 141 and 142 in serviceable condition for situations like these. It would mean that they could continue to run charters with their own locomotives, abet with vintage diesel power rather than a steam engine.

The public want steam - end of. Its what makes the money, if there was a demand for more diesel tours this demand would be taken up and exploited to the max

corktina

most of the public wouldn't know a steam loco from a tin of spam.

141/2 looked great when repainted and would be more acceptable in a rescue situation than 112.

flyingsnail

I can assure you that the public know the difference between a steam engine and a diesel. They may know or care what steam engine it is they just know its a steam engine. When it comes to diesel they don’t care they just know its not a steam engine.

As I said here recently the RPSI is making progress with there diesels, things are just moving slowly.

Chrisplayfair

I couldn't agree anymore! Why exactly did they preserve 141 & 142? These are mainline engines. It's a pity really...There is little interest in diesel engines where the RPSI is concerned. They really need to start thinking about other options rather than using a steam engine. NIR won't always be in a position to lend them a GM and considering they only have one at present, it limits them even more. This sole locomotive could be needed for a ballast train or to haul a failed Dublin set in. At present , York Road does not have a spare 201 so this leaves 112 being the only spare engine at the depot..

The RPSI claim that there isn't a great market for diesel tours. As said on IRN, they're last mystery tour to Galway only had 90 people on it! Why do mystery tours?? Pointless in my opinion. They claim that to run a diesel tour the joe public fill the most of it!

Rubbish!

How about doing an actual diesel railtour like the old ITG days or MRSI days where your leaving at the crack of done, getting engine changes and doing great loco hauled mileage! I never once recall any ITG/MRSI/IRRS tour having just 90 people on it after advertising interesting stuff with interesting routes & traction. I think it's came to a point where the RPSI have to look at things and say right if were going to survive for years ahead, we need to do these tours and bring in the money from the cranks. And for once, listen to diesel enthusiasts about where to go and what traction to use. It's them that has the money at the end of the day.

As for making progress with diesels, They've had 141 & 142 for 3 years now! 141 hasn't moved in over 2 years...As for 142, well I said it the minute it entered whitehead yard. take a good look at that now, because you won't see it on the mainline again! It's all possible. But the dedicated to get a diesel out isn't. Sad really....Railway "Preservation"....May aswell be a museum if this is their attitude to running the bo-bos

steamengine

Would the main preservation groups ever consider or have they ever considered the following collective endeavour ? :-

RPSI - concentrate on steam.

ITG - concentrate on diesel.

RPSI + ITG or an associated group such as the IRHG - acquire 5miles of track located in the midlands or somewhere centrally.

And thus work towards a self-contained heritage railway package.

demanufactured

steamengine wrote: »

Would the main preservation groups ever consider or have they ever considered the following collective endeavour ? :-

RPSI - concentrate on steam.

ITG - concentrate on diesel.

RPSI + ITG or an associated group such as the IRHG - acquire 5miles of track located in the midlands or somewhere centrally.

And thus work towards a self-contained heritage railway package.

Athlone mullingar would be perfect.

CaptainFreedom

steamengine wrote: »

Would the main preservation groups ever consider or have they ever considered the following collective endeavour ? :-

RPSI - concentrate on steam.

ITG - concentrate on diesel.

RPSI + ITG or an associated group such as the IRHG - acquire 5miles of track located in the midlands or somewhere centrally.

And thus work towards a self-contained heritage railway package.

Ah sure resurrect the GSRPS while we are at it - sorted, they knew everything, they were always right, finances managed impeccably and run by a great bunch of lads

CaptainFreedom

Chrisplayfair wrote: »

The RPSI claim that there isn't a great market for diesel tours. As said on IRN, they're last mystery tour to Galway only had 90 people on it! Why do mystery tours?? Pointless in my opinion. They claim that to run a diesel tour the joe public fill the most of it!

Rubbish!

How about doing an actual diesel railtour like the old ITG days or MRSI days where your leaving at the crack of done, getting engine changes and doing great loco hauled mileage! I never once recall any ITG/MRSI/IRRS tour having just 90 people on it after advertising interesting stuff with interesting routes & traction. I think it's came to a point where the RPSI have to look at things and say right if were going to survive for years ahead, we need to do these tours and bring in the money from the cranks. And for once, listen to diesel enthusiasts about where to go and what traction to use. It's them that has the money at the end of the day.

What you must remember is that in the heyday of the ITG tours, there were spare locos at almost every major junction and station, parked up at the weekends, along with a few rakes of Cravens knocking about. This coupled with cheap ferry deals and less restrictive pathing meant it was possible to tour the country. Also the english people wanted to cover every last inch of the ballybohon - ballygobackwards freight only line, and got very very annoyed when the 4 planned loco swops didnt happen, even in the middle of an IE power crisis (cast your mind back to 1995-8 when the 201's were having severe wheelset problems and every last 071 / bo-bo was needed).

Then the organsiers heads got slightly too big, and didnt only bite the hand that fed them, they yanked the holders arm clean off

I recall a railtour was to be run called 'The Blue Boy' recently, wonder what happened there

Judgement Day

CaptainFreedom wrote: »

Ah sure resurrect the GSRPS while we are at it - sorted, they knew everything, they were always right, finances managed impeccably and run by a great bunch of lads

Care to enlighten us as to the source of your knowledge? :rolleyes:

Chrisplayfair

As much as Athlone-Mullingar sounds perfect, it will never happen....

Judgement Day

Ardee/Dromin Jn at just 4 miles would have been perfect. Great GNR terminus at Ardee too. http://www.geograph.ie/photo/2678277

corktina

Chrisplayfair wrote: »

As much as Athlone-Mullingar sounds perfect, it will never happen....

No I doubt it will. There isnt the tradition of voluteering here or the pool of enthusiasts to support it.

dowlingm

Presumably if NIR had a crisis with 112 there are TPWSed 071s that could be sent north in the same way 111s have occasionally been seen in the south on Tara runs etc.?

Chrisplayfair

No 071s have TPWS. If there is a major fault with 112, NIR are basically in the ****.....

The only times NIR loco (112) has appeared on the tara mines was the time it was on a load test after having work done at Inchicore. The other time was when it was on long term loan to IE.

dowlingm

Didn't 071s do Enterprise runs back in the day though? Or was that pre-TPWS/operating under waiver?

Losty Dublin

dowlingm wrote: »

Didn't 071s do Enterprise runs back in the day though? Or was that pre-TPWS/operating under waiver?

No TPWS back then, MD. It's only come in for NIR within the last few years.

end of the road

of course if CIE didn't rip up nearly every closed line their might be some interesting places to go but hey one can only wish.

end of the road

Hungerford wrote: »

I don't have much sympathy for them to be honest. If they weren't so diesel-phobic, they would have maintained 141 and 142 in serviceable condition for situations like these. It would mean that they could continue to run charters with their own locomotives, abet with vintage diesel power rather than a steam engine.

ah now remember they have to pander to the (core market) usually consisting of pearents with their little screaming brats (the reason why i would love a quiet carrage on the rosslare train, one can only wish) but anyway. maybe one day they will have all their diesels in full working order on mainline service and the same for the ITG to, what they have is all we have so don't let them rot for god sake.

Niles

Chrisplayfair wrote: »

I couldn't agree anymore! Why exactly did they preserve 141 & 142? These are mainline engines. It's a pity really...There is little interest in diesel engines where the RPSI is concerned. They really need to start thinking about other options rather than using a steam engine. NIR won't always be in a position to lend them a GM and considering they only have one at present, it limits them even more. This sole locomotive could be needed for a ballast train or to haul a failed Dublin set in. At present , York Road does not have a spare 201 so this leaves 112 being the only spare engine at the depot..

The RPSI claim that there isn't a great market for diesel tours. As said on IRN, they're last mystery tour to Galway only had 90 people on it! Why do mystery tours?? Pointless in my opinion. They claim that to run a diesel tour the joe public fill the most of it!

Rubbish!

How about doing an actual diesel railtour like the old ITG days or MRSI days where your leaving at the crack of done, getting engine changes and doing great loco hauled mileage! I never once recall any ITG/MRSI/IRRS tour having just 90 people on it after advertising interesting stuff with interesting routes & traction. I think it's came to a point where the RPSI have to look at things and say right if were going to survive for years ahead, we need to do these tours and bring in the money from the cranks. And for once, listen to diesel enthusiasts about where to go and what traction to use. It's them that has the money at the end of the day.

As for making progress with diesels, They've had 141 & 142 for 3 years now! 141 hasn't moved in over 2 years...As for 142, well I said it the minute it entered whitehead yard. take a good look at that now, because you won't see it on the mainline again! It's all possible. But the dedicated to get a diesel out isn't. Sad really....Railway "Preservation"....May aswell be a museum if this is their attitude to running the bo-bos

The RPSI's workforce is very small... many Saturdays you can count on one hand the amount of people available to keep the bare essentials running. I can't fathom how people think it's ok to criticise volunteers who are already stretched as it is keeping the bread and butter stock running for not doing more. It would be like criticising the St. Vincent de Paul Society for not helping more people in need, or claiming that Trócaire should be doing more for people in Africa.

If more people rolled up their sleeves, and less coached from the peanut gallery, maybe things could get done. But criticising those who have their hands full as it is for not doing more makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.

For what it's worth, as attractive the idea of two B&T 141s is, I doubt more of Joe Public would care whether it was a 141, 111, 071 or 201 hauling the train. This is coming from my experience in dealing with public on such outings.

flyingsnail

Steam pays the bills, there is no way around it, that’s what the public want on their trains. While you may fill a number of diesel trains with enthusiasts you wont fill nearly as many as steam trains with the public. You can easily fill a steam train to Rosslare and back 4 times a year, how many times can you fill the same train with an 071 on the front?

Maybe with the right traction and destination you will sell out but that is not that easy. In the short term you are limited to either a 071 or a 201, unfortunately that does not give you much choice. We don’t exactly have a vast network in Ireland, coupled with modernisation and increased services it can be difficult to find paths to some places. You also have crew availability to contend with, in the days of loco hauled trains there were drivers and guards all over the country who could work these trains. Now there are very few drivers and guards who are passed to work these trains. While some may lament its passing, they days of starting at dawn and going all day are gone.

While from the outside it may often seem as if nothing is happening please remember that the people who do make things happen are all volunteers. This is not our day job, we are not paid to do this. We do it on our own time and at times it can drag on you. Some times getting up for that 6th day of work can be hard but if you don’t do it who will. At Christmas we will work our day jobs Monday to Friday then work for the RPSI Friday evening, all day Saturday, all day Sunday and back to work on Monday for 3 weeks straight.

Don’t get me wrong I find it very rewarding at times but the low number of people who volunteer often mean that all the work falls on the same people. We would love to have all our rolling stock in perfect order, to have every engine, both steam and diesel, available to run trains but unless more people are prepared to pick up tools and do some work this will just not happen. As it stands we draw our regular volunteers from across the country, form Limerick, Cork, Westport, Longford, Arklow and Dublin. All of who put in long days to keep things running only to be criticised for what the couldn’t get done because there just wasn’t enough people.

So before you criticise what has or hasn’t yet been done, please answer me this simple question. What have YOU done to help things move along?

kildarecommuter

flyingsnail wrote: »

Steam pays the bills, there is no way around it, that’s what the public want on their trains. While you may fill a number of diesel trains with enthusiasts you wont fill nearly as many as steam trains with the public. You can easily fill a steam train to Rosslare and back 4 times a year, how many times can you fill the same train with an 071 on the front?

Maybe with the right traction and destination you will sell out but that is not that easy. In the short term you are limited to either a 071 or a 201, unfortunately that does not give you much choice. We don’t exactly have a vast network in Ireland, coupled with modernisation and increased services it can be difficult to find paths to some places. You also have crew availability to contend with, in the days of loco hauled trains there were drivers and guards all over the country who could work these trains. Now there are very few drivers and guards who are passed to work these trains. While some may lament its passing, they days of starting at dawn and going all day are gone.

While from the outside it may often seem as if nothing is happening please remember that the people who do make things happen are all volunteers. This is not our day job, we are not paid to do this. We do it on our own time and at times it can drag on you. Some times getting up for that 6th day of work can be hard but if you don’t do it who will. At Christmas we will work our day jobs Monday to Friday then work for the RPSI Friday evening, all day Saturday, all day Sunday and back to work on Monday for 3 weeks straight.

Don’t get me wrong I find it very rewarding at times but the low number of people who volunteer often mean that all the work falls on the same people. We would love to have all our rolling stock in perfect order, to have every engine, both steam and diesel, available to run trains but unless more people are prepared to pick up tools and do some work this will just not happen. As it stands we draw our regular volunteers from across the country, form Limerick, Cork, Westport, Longford, Arklow and Dublin. All of who put in long days to keep things running only to be criticised for what the couldn’t get done because there just wasn’t enough people.

So before you criticise what has or hasn’t yet been done, please answer me this simple question. What have YOU done to help things move along?

Have to agree with the above I spent many years in Mullingar shed most weekends it was always the same faces. Emigrated for no of years and now that I'm back just don't have the time with other commitments however I do sometimes bring small people on Santas etc and it's still the same faces with a few younger ones doing all the work.

Hungerford

flyingsnail wrote: »

Steam pays the bills, there is no way around it, that’s what the public want on their trains.

Steam may pay the bills but the current situation indicates that the RPSI has no back-up plan for the issues that can crop up when dealing with such old machinery. The continued reliance on NIR and IE to bail the society out is getting ridiculous and is arguably unsustainable given the limited number of locomotives in service with both companies.

If assistance from these bodies isn't available, for whatever reason, it is clear that the society might have to cancel a substantial amount of its engagements, which has obvious implications on its revenue.

My point is that the RPSI has a ready-made solution but is unwilling to pursue it because of its obsession with steam. They got two Baby GMs in fully functioning condition from Irish Rail and they basically withdrew them from service.

If the Baby GMs were functional, the RPSI wouldn't have to run to NIR or IE for rescue locomotives every time their steam engines fail. They would be able to maintain their engagements (and revenue) while the engines are repaired with the next best alternative, vintage diesel engines, which were actually in service alongside steam engines for the early part of their history.

If the RPSI's punters are as discerning as the society suggests, why have they accepted 111s (from the 1980s) or 201s (from the 1990s) as replacement stock on previous occasions? I don't recall any stampede for refunds.

Maybe with the right traction and destination you will sell out but that is not that easy. In the short term you are limited to either a 071 or a 201, unfortunately that does not give you much choice.

And that situation is entirely down to the RPSI's obsession with steam. It has obtained diesel locomotives in the past and has allowed them to rot. One of the two NIR 101-class engines given to the society was even turned into razor blades.

You also have crew availability to contend with, in the days of loco hauled trains there were drivers and guards all over the country who could work these trains. Now there are very few drivers and guards who are passed to work these trains.

A couple and utter straw man if ever I saw one unless IE and NIR have been maintaining a mandatory yet covert steam engine training course for all their crews since the 1960s?

We would love to have all our rolling stock in perfect order, to have every engine, both steam and diesel, available to run trains but unless more people are prepared to pick up tools and do some work this will just not happen.

Its also a question of willingness too though. I notice that Downpatrick, which is also staffed by volunteers, has managed to keep the diesels it has received going. Indeed, it recently completed extensive repairs on one of the front cabs of 146. The RPSI has no interest in diesel.

So before you criticise what has or hasn’t yet been done, please answer me this simple question. What have YOU done to help things move along?

Absolutely nothing. And I won't until the RPSI drops its Thomas The Tank Engine obsession and engage seriously with preserving all aspects of Ireland's railway heritage.

dowlingm

Hungerford wrote: »

My point is that the RPSI has a ready-made solution but is unwilling to pursue it because of its obsession with steam. They got two Baby GMs in fully functioning condition from Irish Rail and they basically withdrew them from service.

With only one go-anywhere TPWSed 111 perhaps NIR would welcome having a small GM in mainline order these days... just in case.

end of the road

Hungerford wrote: »

Steam may pay the bills but the current situation indicates that the RPSI has no back-up plan for the issues that can crop up when dealing with such old machinery. The continued reliance on NIR and IE to bail the society out is getting ridiculous and is arguably unsustainable given the limited number of locomotives in service with both companies.

exactly, NIR and IE probably won't have locos forever or at least not enough to come rescue failed steam locos, hopefully their will be preserved ones to do it though if such a time came.

Hungerford wrote: »

If assistance from these bodies isn't available, for whatever reason, it is clear that the society might have to cancel a substantial amount of its engagements, which has obvious implications on its revenue.

that won't be good, its why its important to get these locos working and to mainline standard, i know volunteers are an issue but getting 1 or 2 working incase of a steam failure has to be a priority.

Hungerford wrote: »

My point is that the RPSI has a ready-made solution but is unwilling to pursue it because of its obsession with steam. They got two Baby GMs in fully functioning condition from Irish Rail and they basically withdrew them from service.

probably to their peril eventually.

Hungerford wrote: »

If the Baby GMs were functional, the RPSI wouldn't have to run to NIR or IE for rescue locomotives every time their steam engines fail. They would be able to maintain their engagements (and revenue) while the engines are repaired with the next best alternative, vintage diesel engines, which were actually in service alongside steam engines for the early part of their history.

i'm sure their are punters who go on the trips who would know that, thats why i believe most don't care. yeah the steam is a boness but have an a-class in front (i wish, maybe one day) once they know the history of those locos and couple that with a nice day out i'm sure they will be happy.

Hungerford wrote: »

If the RPSI's punters are as discerning as the society suggests, why have they accepted 111s (from the 1980s) or 201s (from the 1990s) as replacement stock on previous occasions? I don't recall any stampede for refunds.

well unless the punters are completely thick, i suspect they most lightly realise that these machines are old and will break down from time to time, also they most lightly realise the fact they are in working order and running on the main line at all is fantastic.

Hungerford wrote: »

And that situation is entirely down to the RPSI's obsession with steam. It has obtained diesel locomotives in the past and has allowed them to rot.

very very sad, such examples of heritage being left to rott is not good for anyone, its less for people to enjoy.

Hungerford wrote: »

One of the two NIR 101-class engines given to the society was even turned into razor blades.

an absolute discrase, and very very sad, is their only 1 of this class preserved?

Cookie_Monster

end of the road wrote: »

an absolute discrase, and very very sad, is their only 1 of this class preserved?

it's sitting in a musuem and will likely never move again. about as 'preserved' as it'll get.

flyingsnail

Hungerford wrote: »

Steam may pay the bills but the current situation indicates that the RPSI has no back-up plan for the issues that can crop up when dealing with such old machinery. The continued reliance on NIR and IE to bail the society out is getting ridiculous and is arguably unsustainable given the limited number of locomotives in service with both companies.

If assistance from these bodies isn't available, for whatever reason, it is clear that the society might have to cancel a substantial amount of its engagements, which has obvious implications on its revenue.

My point is that the RPSI has a ready-made solution but is unwilling to pursue it because of its obsession with steam. They got two Baby GMs in fully functioning condition from Irish Rail and they basically withdrew them from service.

If the Baby GMs were functional, the RPSI wouldn't have to run to NIR or IE for rescue locomotives every time their steam engines fail. They would be able to maintain their engagements (and revenue) while the engines are repaired with the next best alternative, vintage diesel engines, which were actually in service alongside steam engines for the early part of their history.

If the RPSI's punters are as discerning as the society suggests, why have they accepted 111s (from the 1980s) or 201s (from the 1990s) as replacement stock on previous occasions? I don't recall any stampede for refunds.

Clearly you have never had to deal with disappointed passengers when we run a diesel instead of a steam. And yes there are always people who want a refund.

And that situation is entirely down to the RPSI's obsession with steam. It has obtained diesel locomotives in the past and has allowed them to rot. One of the two NIR 101-class engines given to the society was even turned into razor blades.



A couple and utter straw man if ever I saw one unless IE and NIR have been maintaining a mandatory yet covert steam engine training course for all their crews since the 1960s?

The RPSI pay IE and NIR to train steam drivers, the point there was that there are very few drivers left who can drive locomotive hauled trains and very few guards to work them. As a result the amount of hours in a day that you can be out is very much restricted.

Its also a question of willingness too though. I notice that Downpatrick, which is also staffed by volunteers, has managed to keep the diesels it has received going. Indeed, it recently completed extensive repairs on one of the front cabs of 146. The RPSI has no interest in diesel.

If we could do it now we would, but as it stand we just about have enough people to cover our bread and butter work so every thing else has to take a back seat and as a result progresses slowly


Its not exactly fair comparing Downpatrick with main line running, they are two completely different things. Something that might stop a loco working a mainline train might be perfectly acceptable on a preserved line.

Absolutely nothing. And I won't until the RPSI drops its Thomas The Tank Engine obsession and engage seriously with preserving all aspects of Ireland's railway heritage.

So you see something you don’t like and instead of trying to doing something about it you just choose to sit on the sidelines criticizing those who are trying to do something.

flyingsnail

dowlingm wrote: »

With only one go-anywhere TPWSed 111 perhaps NIR would welcome having a small GM in mainline order these days... just in case.

NIR would have no drivers passed to work a 141

Our man in Havana

The RPSI needs to get drivers passed to drive their diesel engines. Such a shame allowing them to rot.

Rud

So i if want to learn to drive a steam or diesel for the RPSI what have i to do?Why can't i be trained by the RPSI to drive their steam trains?Why is it that there is only a certain amount of drivers available to drive them?Oh and this isn't a dig at the RPSI,i am just asking

Losty Dublin

A post like this is vintage selective begrudger talk.

I trust that you were at last weeks RPSI AGM to raise this vital matter which worries you so much, you that are willing to help out to achieve your suggestions which are obviously things the RPSI never ever thought of, able to donate cash to see your plans to fruition, train in drivers, fit safety equipment, marshall trains, sell tickets, plan trips et al :rolleyes:

Hungerford wrote: »

Steam may pay the bills but the current situation indicates that the RPSI has no back-up plan for the issues that can crop up when dealing with such old machinery. The continued reliance on NIR and IE to bail the society out is getting ridiculous and is arguably unsustainable given the limited number of locomotives in service with both companies.

If assistance from these bodies isn't available, for whatever reason, it is clear that the society might have to cancel a substantial amount of its engagements, which has obvious implications on its revenue.

My point is that the RPSI has a ready-made solution but is unwilling to pursue it because of its obsession with steam. They got two Baby GMs in fully functioning condition from Irish Rail and they basically withdrew them from service.

If the Baby GMs were functional, the RPSI wouldn't have to run to NIR or IE for rescue locomotives every time their steam engines fail. They would be able to maintain their engagements (and revenue) while the engines are repaired with the next best alternative, vintage diesel engines, which were actually in service alongside steam engines for the early part of their history.

If the RPSI's punters are as discerning as the society suggests, why have they accepted 111s (from the 1980s) or 201s (from the 1990s) as replacement stock on previous occasions? I don't recall any stampede for refunds.



And that situation is entirely down to the RPSI's obsession with steam. It has obtained diesel locomotives in the past and has allowed them to rot. One of the two NIR 101-class engines given to the society was even turned into razor blades.



A couple and utter straw man if ever I saw one unless IE and NIR have been maintaining a mandatory yet covert steam engine training course for all their crews since the 1960s?



Its also a question of willingness too though. I notice that Downpatrick, which is also staffed by volunteers, has managed to keep the diesels it has received going. Indeed, it recently completed extensive repairs on one of the front cabs of 146. The RPSI has no interest in diesel.



Absolutely nothing. And I won't until the RPSI drops its Thomas The Tank Engine obsession and engage seriously with preserving all aspects of Ireland's railway heritage.

flyingsnail

Rud wrote: »

So i if want to learn to drive a steam or diesel for the RPSI what have i to do?Why can't i be trained by the RPSI to drive their steam trains?Why is it that there is only a certain amount of drivers available to drive them?Oh and this isn't a dig at the RPSI,i am just asking

All steam train drivers are currently employed by IE / NIR as drivers and the RPSI has paid those company to further train them as steam train drivers. They are then hired by the RPSI as required.

Chrisplayfair

flyingsnail wrote: »

NIR would have no drivers passed to work a 141

I can confirm there are still 5 drivers on NIR who sign for 141 class locomotives....Its all about being competent to drive rather than 6 months etc

Rud

flyingsnail wrote: »

All steam train drivers are currently employed by IE / NIR as drivers and the RPSI has paid those company to further train them as steam train drivers. They are then hired by the RPSI as required.

Why is this exactly?Why can't RPSI hire and train steam drivers themselves and leave IE or NIR out of it?

Chrisplayfair

Emmmm....I do believe because it's their railway funnily enough....Its not like England where Network Rail own the track and West coast and DRS (Private operators) operate. To operate on the NIR infrastructure, all train drivers must have a train driver's licence, which I doubt any RPSI *yard* driver has.

kildarecommuter

Rud wrote: »

flyingsnail wrote: »

All steam train drivers are currently employed by IE / NIR as drivers and the RPSI has paid those company to further train them as steam train drivers. They are then hired by the RPSI as required.

Why is this exactly?Why can't RPSI hire and train steam drivers themselves and leave IE or NIR out of it?

I would presume because neither rail company will permit anyone bar their own staff drive trains on their lines. You would also need road knowledge