Would Hollow Point DumDum Rounds be used for training or calibrating weapons?.

Run_to_da_hills

To settle an argument could someone tell me if the police or army would use these for practising, training or calibration of weapons?

Are these more expensive than normal rounds?

Boiled-egg

Not sure about the police but I can state 100% that dumb dumb and hollow points are against the Geneva convention. Think they classify them as "expanding projectiles" and are there fore not used by the vast majority if not all militaries inc the DF.

Praetorian Saighdiuir

I highly doubt it, not in my experience anyway.

It wasn't me!

Prohibited for military use under the Hague Convention. Most police forces use hollow points for pistols, certainly, as they're far easier to contain and present less danger to non-target folks than FMJs. Presumably, AGS do too.

Run_to_da_hills

According to reports US state departments have made an order for internal use. They are hardly going to use them for target practice.

http://theintelhub.com/2012/08/16/federal-government-ammo-buildup-social-security-administration-to-purchase-174-thousand-hollow-point-rounds/

Witcher

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

According to reports US state departments have made an order for internal use. They are hardly going to use them for target practice.

If they are going to use them out on the street that is what they train with.

It wasn't me!

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

According to reports US state departments have made an order for internal use. They are hardly going to use them for target practice.

http://theintelhub.com/2012/08/16/federal-government-ammo-buildup-social-security-administration-to-purchase-174-thousand-hollow-point-rounds/

Of course they will, why wouldn't they? You train with what you use when it counts, for the most part. In addition, they're safer for training purposes, as it's much easier to contain rounds which deform and fragment significantly rather than FMJs, which have much higher integrity and tendency to ricochet, whereupon any splashback or the like is going to be larger particles.

Run_to_da_hills

Blay wrote: »

If they are going to use them out on the street that is what they train with.

It certainly looks that way.

One poster pointed out that these bullets would be "safer" in crowd situations as the projectile would have less chance of passing through intended targets causing third party casualties. Maybe true but certainly nasty if the intended target was mistaken identity like Charles Demenzes.

I have started a thread in CT on the subject.

Obama arming US State departments to the teeth in pre election run up

It wasn't me!

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

It certainly looks that way.

One poster pointed out that these bullets would be "safer" in crowd situations as the projectile would have less chance of passing through intended targets causing third party casualties. Maybe true but certainly nasty if the intended target was mistaken identity like Charles Demenzes.

I have started a thread in CT on the subject.

Obama arming US State departments to the teeth in pre election run up

If you're getting shot, your last problem is the construction of the bullet. Also, organisations that use firearms buying ammunition for them is not news.

Manic Moran

Maybe true but certainly nasty if the intended target was mistaken identity like Charles Demenzes.

Of course they're nasty, that's the primary reason that they are used.

They do more than just poke a hole in someone. When you want them down fast, use a hollow-point or similar.

Run_to_da_hills

It wasn't me! wrote: »

If you're getting shot, your last problem is the construction of the bullet. Also, organisations that use firearms buying ammunition for them is not news.

There's quite a good explanation about these bullets and the Geneva convention here:.

http://truthfrequencyradio.com/the-u-s-governments-coming-war-with-the-american-people/

tac foley

Declaration on the Use of Bullets Which Expand or Flatten Easily in the Human Body” adopted at the First Hague Peace Conference of (29 July) 1899.

The original Dum-Dum bullet was made for the then-new Lee-Metford, later Enfield rifle that has entered service in the British Empire in the mid-1890'. The ammunition, made at the eponymous Dum-Dum Arsenal in India, was actually designed to expand on impact, after the British Empire had had a hard time with the insurgent and drugged-up Mahdists in North-East Africa [remember Gordon of Khartoum?]

However, the Hague Convention only deals with warring nations, and not with civilians, that is to say, law-enforcement.

tac

tac foley

The military [in general] do not use ammunition like this, as a couple of us here have already explained - The Hague Convention prohibits such use against belligerents.

However, most SF DO use one form or another of soft-point ammunion in their handguns. Military sniping ammunition is already of the 'tiny hole in the tip' variety, and does not NEED to be a soft-point to cause maximum lethal drop effect.

I'd be grateful if you could point me at this site on which you claim to have seen British Army use of ballistic-tipped ammunition, as I would like to see it for myself. Mind you, I only did thirty-three years in the British Army, so I may just have missed something out. Perhaps you are looking at AP, incendiary or SLAP?

Note also that Nosler makes TWO kind of plastic-tipped ammunition. One is green-tipped, and is designed to fragment, and therefore I am prohibited from buying or possessing it in any way. The other type, which I CAN buy as it is not designed to fragment, is red-tipped.

tac

Boiled-egg

Note if a country has signed up to the Hague convention that includes all its armed forces including its SOF but excluding police.
Not sure if the statement about all sniper ammo being the hole in the tip stuff is 100% correct.

tac foley

Boiled-egg wrote: »

Note if a country has signed up to the Hague convention that includes all its armed forces including its SOF but excluding police.
Not sure if the statement about all sniper ammo being the hole in the tip stuff is 100% correct.

Have a look at ANY .308 Match ammunition, .300Win Mag or .338LM match ammunition. THAT is what is used by snipers in NATO and added-on forces.

tac

It wasn't me!

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

There's quite a good explanation about these bullets and the Geneva convention here:.

http://truthfrequencyradio.com/the-u-s-governments-coming-war-with-the-american-people/

Firstly, Hague Convention, nothing to do with Geneva. Secondly, no way in hell am I taking any reading matter on munitions and such from that link.

Boiled-egg

tac foley wrote: »

Boiled-egg wrote: »

Note if a country has signed up to the Hague convention that includes all its armed forces including its SOF but excluding police.
Not sure if the statement about all sniper ammo being the hole in the tip stuff is 100% correct.

Have a look at ANY .308 Match ammunition, .300Win Mag or .338LM match ammunition. THAT is what is used by snipers in NATO and added-on forces.

tac

Tac I will, first thing on Monday morning.
All I said was I wasn't 100% sure your right. If I'm wrong I'll post it up.
The in "NATO"is a bit of an add on from your original post though & What is an added on force??

tac foley

Boiled-egg wrote: »

Tac I will, first thing on Monday morning.
All I said was I wasn't 100% sure your right. If I'm wrong I'll post it up.
The in "NATO"is a bit of an add on from your original post though & What is an added on force??

Finland and Sweden, Republic of Ireland, Japan, Australia and New Zealand, Belarus, Switzerland, Austria, Slovakia, Serbia. Some have joined us in A'stan, others haven't.

The ammunition you note is 'dim tracer' used to 'light up' targetsfor troops using night vision devices. The tip colour is turquoise green/blue.

Best

tac

Boiled-egg

tac foley wrote: »

Boiled-egg wrote: »

Tac I will, first thing on Monday morning.
All I said was I wasn't 100% sure your right. If I'm wrong I'll post it up.
The in "NATO"is a bit of an add on from your original post though & What is an added on force??

Finland and Sweden, Republic of Ireland, Japan, Australia and New Zealand, Belarus, Switzerland, Austria, Slovakia, Serbia. Some have joined us in A'stan, others haven't.

The ammunition you note is 'dim tracer' used to 'light up' targetsfor troops using night vision devices. The tip colour is turquoise green/blue.

Best

tac

Tax
I was chatting to the guy who buys the ammo for the DF last Friday. There are 4 types of round in service for the AI one of which happens to be a hunting round for culling animals when required, anyways back to our problem there is one answer as there are both types in stock.
We both loose!! Anyways all the best for the new season
Regards
BE

BigDuffman

OP was it definitely Dum Dum rounds? As I've heard on a few occasions people confusing Dum Dums and frangible rounds. Frangible rounds were used by DF in areas where there is a possibility for a riccochet eg. SaabScania ranges.

tac foley

Sir - you are missing the point of the thread - there is no such thing as a 'Dum-Dum' round except in a military museum. Those who still confuse such museum pieceswith actual modern-day ammunition are misled and misinformed.

Best

tac