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Self-Defense for an unfit person?

  • 17-08-2012 9:18pm
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15


    If someone has had surgery and aren't as fit as they used to be due to not being able to exercise from post-op & have fibromyalgia (muscular rhumatism) i.e. very weak - is there somewhere they can learn self-defense (either privately or in a class) as I'd love to know self-defense but feel all the classes out there put you through a rigorous workout of press-ups, squats etc. that I am not physically able to do.


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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 437 ✭✭reganreggie


    bizzbee wrote: »
    If someone has had surgery and aren't as fit as they used to be due to not being able to exercise from post-op & have fibromyalgia (muscular rhumatism) i.e. very weak - is there somewhere they can learn self-defense (either privately or in a class) as I'd love to know self-defense but feel all the classes out there put you through a rigorous workout of press-ups, squats etc. that I am not physically able to do.

    Bjj might be the way to go its invented to help the weak to use leverage and position and pressure to overcome and control bigger opponents.

    As a self defence system it has its flaws but for a one on one fight i belive its one of the best arts.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 537 ✭✭✭EnjoyChoke


    bizzbee wrote: »
    If someone has had surgery and aren't as fit as they used to be due to not being able to exercise from post-op & have fibromyalgia (muscular rhumatism) i.e. very weak - is there somewhere they can learn self-defense (either privately or in a class) as I'd love to know self-defense but feel all the classes out there put you through a rigorous workout of press-ups, squats etc. that I am not physically able to do.

    Bjj might be the way to go its invented to help the weak to use leverage and position and pressure to overcome and control bigger opponents.

    As a self defence system it has its flaws but for a one on one fight i belive its one of the best arts.

    A new low is reached.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 134 ✭✭Librium


    bizzbee wrote: »
    If someone has had surgery and aren't as fit as they used to be due to not being able to exercise from post-op & have fibromyalgia (muscular rhumatism) i.e. very weak - is there somewhere they can learn self-defense (either privately or in a class) as I'd love to know self-defense but feel all the classes out there put you through a rigorous workout of press-ups, squats etc. that I am not physically able to do.

    ppl are going to think i'm trolling but for you your only form of self defence is a panic alarm button or a gun


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 437 ✭✭reganreggie


    EnjoyChoke wrote: »
    bizzbee wrote: »
    If someone has had surgery and aren't as fit as they used to be due to not being able to exercise from post-op & have fibromyalgia (muscular rhumatism) i.e. very weak - is there somewhere they can learn self-defense (either privately or in a class) as I'd love to know self-defense but feel all the classes out there put you through a rigorous workout of press-ups, squats etc. that I am not physically able to do.

    Bjj might be the way to go its invented to help the weak to use leverage and position and pressure to overcome and control bigger opponents.

    As a self defence system it has its flaws but for a one on one fight i belive its one of the best arts.

    A new low is reached.


    ????

    Sorry i taught a forum was for opions.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 134 ✭✭Librium


    ????

    Sorry i taught a forum was for opions.

    thought...opinions


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,188 ✭✭✭Doug Cartel


    Librium wrote: »
    ppl are going to think i'm trolling but for you your only form of self defence is a panic alarm button or a gun
    Yeah, if you continue to promote carrying weapons I am going to consider you a troll.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,255 ✭✭✭getz


    bizzbee wrote: »
    If someone has had surgery and aren't as fit as they used to be due to not being able to exercise from post-op & have fibromyalgia (muscular rhumatism) i.e. very weak - is there somewhere they can learn self-defense (either privately or in a class) as I'd love to know self-defense but feel all the classes out there put you through a rigorous workout of press-ups, squats etc. that I am not physically able to do.
    aikido--it is the thinking mans martial arts,you do not have to run around like a two year old


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,188 ✭✭✭Doug Cartel


    bizzbee wrote: »
    If someone has had surgery and aren't as fit as they used to be due to not being able to exercise from post-op & have fibromyalgia (muscular rhumatism) i.e. very weak - is there somewhere they can learn self-defense (either privately or in a class) as I'd love to know self-defense but feel all the classes out there put you through a rigorous workout of press-ups, squats etc. that I am not physically able to do.

    Learning to fight is only a very small part of self defence. If self defence is your main aim, you'd be best off brushing up on your negotiation skills and how to recognise and avoid dangerous situations.

    If you are still recovering from an injury or surgery then I strongly recommend you clear any training you do with your surgeon. With a lot of martial arts, the push-ups and squats are not even the most strenuous part of the class.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15 bizzbee


    reganreggie what's Bjj?

    Thanks for replies. Can't negotiate with a rapist though... the psychological trauma continues because the fear stays there in your head that it will happen again. Gardai and justice system not the best in my opinion they just make it worse. My only hope is to learn to protect myself but guess they always target the vulnerable.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,255 ✭✭✭getz


    Learning to fight is only a very small part of self defence. If self defence is your main aim, you'd be best off brushing up on your negotiation skills and how to recognise and avoid dangerous situations.

    If you are still recovering from an injury or surgery then I strongly recommend you clear any training you do with your surgeon. With a lot of martial arts, the push-ups and squats are not even the most strenuous part of the class.
    its not always possible to avoid getting attacked,try talking your way out of a situation when drugs or drink are involved,yes avoid dangerous situations thats common sense,and checking with your doctor before taking up any self defence class, the reason i mention aikdo is that its a martial art that is also taught to people with disabilities,and it could give you some chance of getting you out of danger,as a old man who for over 50 years trained in most of the japanese MAs akido inc, its the best one i can think that fits the bill


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 545 ✭✭✭CageWager


    ????

    Sorry i taught a forum was for opions.
    Librium wrote: »
    thought...opinions

    good-guy-greg-on-grammar-photo-u1.jpg


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15 bizzbee


    That's a great help really appreciate it, thanks. :D


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 134 ✭✭Librium


    Your problem is with fear and anxiety. You feel vulnerable and your feelings are borderline paranoid. The likelihood of you being raped or assaulted are tiny. For someone in your position, presumably female, fibromyalgia, unfit, you cannot rely on martial arts or physical self-defence training. Any of the martial arts that you would physically be able to do, if there are any, would be wholly and completely useless in a physical self-defence situation.

    You need to conquer your fears, I suggest counselling, psychotherapy etc.

    Next you must become cognisant of practical soft-skill self-defence ideology - not walking home at night on your own etc. etc.

    Ppl peddling you bunkikan and aikido just want your money.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,255 ✭✭✭getz


    • take no notice its not true,anyone can learn enough martial arts to get themselfs out of most situations in one piece,in the UK there are plenty of self defence classes for woman without any previous training,and i am sure its the same in ireland, i myself helped a womans group in the 70s get started,none of them are affiliated to any set MA style,but take defence moves from all,practice makes perfect and from that you build up confidence,i mentioned akido simply because it is also taught to wheelchair bound people,


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 134 ✭✭Librium


    do you know what fibromyalgia is getz?

    you are deluded and a liar and i think it's absolutely scandalous you're trying to promote this horse ****


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,255 ✭✭✭getz


    Librium wrote: »
    do you know what fibromyalgia is getz?

    you are deluded and a liar and i think it's absolutely scandalous you're trying to promote this horse ****
    www.cuaaikido.com/aikido-from-a-wheelchair


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 134 ✭✭Librium


    if you think there is any self-defence merit in this nonsense you are deeply disturbed



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,255 ✭✭✭getz


    Librium wrote: »
    if you think there is any self-defence merit in this nonsense you are deeply disturbed

    very much like a cornered dog you bark insults,aikido is taught to police forces around the world inc japan/UK. and its the only recognized martial art taught to the tokyo riot police and the WOMANS branch of the tokyo police,and as japan is one of the leaders in the world in MA,you can be assured that they know just what they are talking about


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,188 ✭✭✭Doug Cartel


    getz wrote: »
    aikido is taught to police forces around the world inc japan/UK. and its the only recognized martial art taught to the tokyo riot police and the WOMANS branch of the tokyo police,and as japan is one of the leaders in the world in MA,you can be assured that they know just what they are talking about

    The Yoshinkan "Aikido" taught to the Tokyo Met is a million miles from what you'd get in a regular aikido class and not really comparable.

    Also if the book Angry White Pyjamas is to be believed, it's very much something to avoid if you have pain management issues, as it appears to be a fairly sadistic course that mainly focuses on beating students down and breaking their will so they'll take orders better.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,188 ✭✭✭Doug Cartel


    Librium wrote: »
    you are deluded and a liar and i think it's absolutely scandalous you're trying to promote this horse ****

    Can you ease up on the accusations of lying please. You might not agree with him, but there is no indication he is deliberately trying to steer the OP wrong.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,549 ✭✭✭✭cowzerp


    Librium wrote: »
    if you think there is any self-defence merit in this nonsense you are deeply disturbed


    That video is cringeworthy!

    I'm sure their is some Akido masters who can make some use of the art but overall i think it would be a disaster to try defend yourself like this!

    The lady in the wheelchair while i commend her doing something rather than nothing i am pretty sure she would have no hope of using it at all, I'd be suprised if she could use that against a 10 year old girl to be honest.

    Rush Boxing club and Rush Martial Arts head coach.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,630 ✭✭✭Zen65


    bizzbee wrote: »
    If someone has had surgery and aren't as fit as they used to be due to not being able to exercise from post-op & have fibromyalgia (muscular rhumatism) i.e. very weak - is there somewhere they can learn self-defense (either privately or in a class) as I'd love to know self-defense but feel all the classes out there put you through a rigorous workout of press-ups, squats etc. that I am not physically able to do.

    Most Martial arts can be trained and performed to varying levels by people having a wide range of fitness and ability levels. If you suffer from fibromyalgia then you will most likely not rise to be a championship-winning martial artist, but you can still train, and you can still gain benefit from the training.

    The two most critical issues are (1) your resolve and (2) your instructor.

    (1) Your condition will make training harder for you than for most students. I have taught and trained in classes where students had a wide-ranging set of abilities, including osteoporosis, dispraxia, autism, aneurisms, joint or ligament injuries, poor fitness, obesity, and other issues. The thing that enabled them to train was their determination to do so. They might not have been able to take on all of the exercises, but they were determined enough that when they saw an exercise they could not do they simply sat it out, or did something else. This makes it very difficult for them, because they sometimes will feel as though they are not part of the class / club, and that can weaken their resolve for training, and so sometimes they give up. Personally I was always concerned about the osteoporosis sufferer, but it was an adult and they had checked themselves with their doctor. I admire them for continuing to train.

    If you can put up with having to sit out the bits you can't handle, then I see no reason not to train (subject to a good doctor giving you the all-clear).

    (2) An instructor, like every other person, can be insensitive, uncaring, egotistical, or just plain stupid. Not every instructor will be happy to teach a class where some students simply opt out of certain exercises, but in fairness most instructors I've met understand the issues people face and will be OK with it. I suggest you find a club that has adult classes and where the age profile is varied, as these clubs generally have a good etiquette around people training with disabilities. Talk to the instructor beforehand, make sure he knows your abilities and that he's comfortable to let you opt out when you want to. I'm sure you have printed material which explains Fibromyalgia, so give that to him for reference if you join.

    What martial arts should you take up? I always say that convenience and the instructor are more important than the art, but in your case there may be arts that will not work for you. I suspect (but I don't know for sure) that being thrown would hurt you a lot, so arts like Judo, Jiu-Justsu etc might be especially difficult for you, though as above you could train in the grappling and avoid any of the throws. Tai Chi seems on the face of it to be an ideal MA for your condition (there's an instructor on here who could give advice to you if you sent a PM), as might somebody from the YMAA (link above).

    Striking arts such as Karate, Kung Fu, Kick-boxing, Tae Kwon Do may also be an option for you, depending on the severity of your condition. Fibromyalgia is reported to improve with physical exercise, though as with any condition, this can be a personal matter for the sufferer. Certainly improved sleep could improve your condition, so there may be a trade-off there for you, as any form of exercise improves sleep. I certainly sleep less well when I am forced to miss regular training. The difficulty with learning a striking art is that generally you will need some level of contact with other students during training, but you may find ways (e.g. limb protectors) which allow you to achieve this without too much pain.

    I worry however about your motivation for wanting MA training. Your posts suggests you may have been the victim of an attack in the past, and attacks on women have a very different nature to attacks on men. MA training can help, in certain circumstances, but it is no panacea. If you embark on MA training then be sure to take care also of other issues you may have which would be best dealt with in other ways, whether that is counselling, or relationship issues which might put you in danger.

    Apologies if my digression to this matter seems insensitive.

    Be at peace,

    Z


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 57 ✭✭irateghost


    Chen tai chi is good and dosent require cardio. Although if you could get your hands on a yang family students association guy that would teach you really good stuff. Other than that i guess you could attend lee morrison course but they do require a little fitness.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15 bizzbee


    Thanks everyone...sorry for delay in getting back. I like the sound of the Aikido & Tai Chi I'll look into those and also possible private lessons - do they exist I'm not sure? Getting counselling as well :) I presume its best not to look at this person when he walks by me? (unfortunately I have to work in the same building as him, HR know about it already & my manager). Still leers at me all the time. (think that's the right word). I appreciate all the comments, suggestions etc. you're all really good so thanks to you all :)


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 134 ✭✭Librium


    have you gone to the police?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 249 ✭✭wingnut4


    Hey

    I have fibromylgia and I started of by doing tai kwon doe, I did it for three months and my aches, pains, etc got better which lead me on to doing Brazilian Jujitsu and MMA.

    It all depends on your level of pain and fatigue etc, but I find Brazilian Jujitsu to be the best, not only do I think its the best martial arts but it is really good for when you have that muscle fatigue. Especially if you get a good coach and good training partners.

    I was very sick with fibromylgia for years and I really do believe that martial arts helped ALOT to the point that im in hardly any pain.

    Good luck :-)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 673 ✭✭✭pearsquasher


    If you're going to study any martial art you are going to want to spend several years at it to gain any skill.

    So researching actual clubs in person is the key.

    I recommend that you select 5 or 6 clubs and spend a few weeks or even a month at each seeing what they do, what the instructor is like, their attitude to your condition, the general atmosphere etc.

    In the end you will follow your gut and the few months of research will hopefully lead to a few years of enjoyable training.

    I recommend Bujinkan for an art that adapt to your body as it is while also providing an excellent basis for improving physical health. My own teach is offering beginners classes soon. www.happobiken.com

    I also recommend you grab a coffee and read this website on physical violence and self-defence. http://www.nononsenseselfdefense.com/

    Good luck!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,748 ✭✭✭Dermighty


    Librium wrote: »
    if you think there is any self-defence merit in this nonsense you are deeply disturbed

    ***VIDEO***

    That was hilarious, I like the way every partner she threw just rolled into it too.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,674 ✭✭✭Peetrik


    Yikes, just got to watch that Aikido video, +1 on what Cowzer and Dermighty said. Absolutely cringeworthy.

    This is a way better example of wheelchair defense


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,246 ✭✭✭✭Dyr


    Dermighty wrote: »
    That was hilarious, I like the way every partner she threw just rolled into it too.

    Such is the power of AIKIDO


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,255 ✭✭✭getz


    Bambi wrote: »
    Such is the power of AIKIDO
    before you all start rubbishing akido,it is taught to some of the most elite armed forces in the world, australian special air service reg[SAS]the new zealand army SAS corps,the british SAS,and the US marines ie rangers ,seals and SBS.its not a sport ,unlike many that are about these days.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 134 ✭✭Librium


    getz wrote: »
    before you all start rubbishing akido,it is taught to some of the most elite armed forces in the world, australian special air service reg[SAS]the new zealand army SAS corps,the british SAS,and the US marines ie rangers ,seals and SBS.its not a sport ,unlike many that are about these days.

    no it's not


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,246 ✭✭✭✭Dyr


    getz wrote: »
    before you all start rubbishing akido,it is taught to some of the most elite armed forces in the world, australian special air service reg[SAS]the new zealand army SAS corps,the british SAS,and the US marines ie rangers ,seals and SBS.its not a sport ,unlike many that are about these days.

    I could care less who it's taught to but, just for the craic, you could back every single one of those claims up, taking into consideration that you used the current tense to make them :)

    I trained aikido on and off for about five years in total and that clip is fairly representative of what mainstream aikido is trained like. Also at least one style of aikido is trained for sport and, suprise suprise, it looks nothing like the WWF carry on most aikido people engage in. :pac:


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,255 ✭✭✭getz


    Bambi wrote: »
    I could care less who it's taught to but, just for the craic, you could back every single one of those claims up, taking into consideration that you used the current tense to make them :)

    I trained aikido on and off for about five years in total and that clip is fairly representative of what mainstream aikido is trained like. Also at least one style of aikido is trained for sport and, suprise suprise, it looks nothing like the WWF carry on most aikido people engage in. :pac:
    bambi i trained in shotokan karate and aikdo with charles mac from 1968 to 1975,then shokoki with the other japanese instructors i have trained with asano,kanawzaro, kato all introduced aikido into there self defence systems,i have dan grades in three japanese styles and high grades in judo, aikdo, goshin boxing[a thai/japanese style,] i still guest in in the odd dojo, to explain certain moves to instructors,not bad for a 72 year old is it,one thing i did learn is never to rubbish other styles in MA, without respect you can never fully learn


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,707 ✭✭✭pablohoney87


    getz wrote: »
    one thing i did learn is never to rubbish other styles in MA, without respect you can never fully learn
    I realy am sick of BS arts hiding behind the banner of respect. Normally arts the preach this crap are like aikido self defense motivated or what ever. Tell me what respect will an attacket show you in the street that he leaves his arm there after throwing a punch for you to take it. I was at a seminar last year which brought many styles together. Aikido was one. Trad jj was another. The instructor claimed that an RNC could be countered by pressing your tongue up to the roof or your mouth however he could not demonstrate it due to an injured neck so out of "respect" nobody could put it on fully.


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  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 134 ✭✭Librium


    getz wrote: »
    bambi i trained in shotokan karate and aikdo with charles mac from 1968 to 1975,then shokoki with the other japanese instructors i have trained with asano,kanawzaro, kato all introduced aikido into there self defence systems,i have dan grades in three japanese styles and high grades in judo, aikdo, goshin boxing[a thai/japanese style,] i still guest in in the odd dojo, to explain certain moves to instructors,not bad for a 72 year old is it,one thing i did learn is never to rubbish other styles in MA, without respect you can never fully learn

    an appeal to seniority ?

    you are wrong. there is nothing credible to anything you say.

    having said that, fair play to ya.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,344 ✭✭✭p to the e


    It didn't take long for this thread to be hijacked


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,869 ✭✭✭thegreatiam


    you do realise at the start of this thread is a scared, unwell person looking for a way to feel safe.
    and it has turned into a dick measuring contest like a bunch of 9 year olds boasting their dad can beat all other dads

    in actuality it doesnt matter which martial art you choose, they will all give you the confidence you need to feel more secure and you will meet a bunch of (hopefully) reasonable people who will try to help you fit in as best they can.


    the best thing to do is find a club close to where you live and call them up and arrange a visit, watch a session, meet the staff and decide if you want to go there. if you dont like it, try another club. they may even recommend one for you.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,549 ✭✭✭✭cowzerp


    in actuality it doesnt matter which martial art you choose, they will all give you the confidence you need to feel more secure and you will meet a bunch of (hopefully) reasonable people who will try to help you fit in as best they can.

    It does matter, False confidence is not a good thing-if someone tries to grab some strong burglars arm to throw them away they will most likely get bet about like a red haired step child!

    I would feel guilty advising someone to learn Akido for self defence.

    I'm red so not racist!!

    Rush Boxing club and Rush Martial Arts head coach.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,869 ✭✭✭thegreatiam


    all people are looking for is a way to feel a bit more safe, its not about having the confidence to fight off an attacker, rather than having the confidence to step outside the house.

    people usually turn to a martial art to find this confidence after being attacked because they think if they knew how to fight it would never have happened, but what they really need is to not feel alone and vulnerable, any martial art gym will offer the perceived safety they crave, and doing any type of activity that gets the blood pumping and releases that anger and frustration/feeling of helplessness will be therapeutic. and they will quickly regain their lost confidence, well faster than if they stayed at home in the dark scared to leave the house.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,154 ✭✭✭Niall Keane


    "Yi Dan, Er Li, San Gungfu"

    First courage, second strength, third technique

    Overcoming your fears and getting out will be the start of courage.

    Most systems should have sets of calisthenic excercises that will help to develop strength, in Gung Fu that would be Chi Gung, Nei Gung and Forms.

    Once you have enough strength, you should be able to learn how to apply technique and over time how to fight.

    "fighting without gung (ability to issue and receive power & martially focused conditioning), though one practices for 100 years it is time wasted"

    I believe this what some of the other posters are expressing, there's no easy way to become proficient. Also if the class doesn't fight (spar realistically / compete) then its hard to tell if they have any gung?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,549 ✭✭✭✭cowzerp


    all people are looking for is a way to feel a bit more safe, its not about having the confidence to fight off an attacker

    you could just join soccer for that or basketball etc, or even just go to a psychiatrist, If you want to feel more safe then if you know you can defend yourself that will help, and give you all the confidence building that is on offer in worse activities that won't help when the shiit hits the fan.

    Rush Boxing club and Rush Martial Arts head coach.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,674 ✭✭✭Peetrik


    all people are looking for is a way to feel a bit more safe, its not about having the confidence to fight off an attacker, rather than having the confidence to step outside the house.

    Don't agree with this at all.

    Infact I could write an entire lecture about how much I disagree with this but I'll just bullet point it to save myself an hour.

    • False confidence = arrogance
    • Ineffective training = wasted time
    • Judo/Thai, MMA, Wrestling/BJJ (other exceptions but no space)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,869 ✭✭✭thegreatiam


    then youve never been attacked and made to feel worthless.

    i dont think your empathising with the victim of an attack. and while i can conceed that you are correct that training in any discipline incorrectly is worthless. that is not the point i am making

    the point isnt giving false confidence to withstand any attack, its about regaining confidence you lost. this can be done with any martial art, even soft ones, even a pretty rowdy book club would even help.

    the training itsself, while needed to be competent, and safe, would not need to be intense or realistic with a goal of protecting from an attacker. its about feeling able to rebuild.

    judo/thai/ mma and bjj are all grand for combat sport training, but for rebuilding the confidence of, I assume by the op's comments, a female who has recently been victim of some savage attack and isnt in the best condition may not be the ideal.

    The point i am making is look who is asking the question, its not about which art is better its about which art can help me feel better. Or even if it needs to be a martial art at all.

    and in that case then any martial art will help.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,674 ✭✭✭Peetrik


    the point isnt giving false confidence to withstand any attack, its about regaining confidence you lost.

    This is where we disagree. You call it regaining confidence but in reality its just regaining the false confidence that was torn away once the sh*t hit the fan. Regaining it through tippy tappy dance choreography will just result in it being torn away again the next time there is a confrontation.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,869 ✭✭✭thegreatiam


    i agree, i think martial arts should be done vs resisting opponents, and i wouldnt entertain learning in a gym which didnt spar.

    but im not an unwell female recently victimised.

    most of the time they arent training for when the **** hits the fan. most of the time they are scared and need reassuring. if they want to learn self defense then carrying a rape alarm may be enough to restore the lost confidence.

    the OP probably isnt looking to learn how to throw a punch, she probably jsut wants to be told its ok to be scared and wants to know how she can feel normal again.

    either way, derailing her thread into a 'my kung fu is stronger than your kung fu' seems petty and pointless. and they may be right in the points they make, but they are drastically missing the point. there is a time and a place for dick measuring, but when a woman is asking for help it aint on.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,674 ✭✭✭Peetrik


    Threads are always going to go that way, its people trying to offer the best advice they can with the knowledge they have.
    there is a time and a place for dick measuring, but when a woman is asking for help it aint on.

    Anyway if we're going to throw stones over being sensitive then 'dick measuring' probably isn't the best phrase to throw around in a sexual assault thread


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 120 ✭✭bill buchanan


    Thee are lots of things we don't know about the psychology of fear.

    One of the things we know is that it's very complex. We also know that women who have been the victims of violent assaults don't simply regain confidence by practicing an effective martial art.

    I appreciate that was the OPs question. But this is an issue for people who are trained in this type of thing. I'm not saying martial arts can't have a role. But they're not the ultimate solution.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,154 ✭✭✭Niall Keane


    Thee are lots of things we don't know about the psychology of fear.

    One of the things we know is that it's very complex. We also know that women who have been the victims of violent assaults don't simply regain confidence by practicing an effective martial art.

    I appreciate that was the OPs question. But this is an issue for people who are trained in this type of thing. I'm not saying martial arts can't have a role. But they're not the ultimate solution.

    I don't think anyone is suggesting that martial arts should supplant the role of Psychotherapy etc. in such cases, however I might suggest that many on this forum are probably very aware of martial art snake oil salesmen who through delusion at best or downright unscrupulous behaviour prey on such victims of crime and their fears to line their own pockets selling so called easy to learn, time efficient, indeed "painless" self defence programs.

    In reality such classes that hide behind "deadly" street techniques or effortless demonstrations on compliant students have much to hide regarding martial competence! They remind me of "The Commitments" scene...
    "everybody form a circle, now turn to your right... And give each other a well deserved pat on the back"

    Group therapy may have many psychological benefits, but has no place in the art of fighting!

    Edit:
    I'm an wrong of course to compare wishy washy martial arts to group therapy, they are the antithesis of course - destructive cults of denial. But I hope you can hear my point?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 120 ✭✭bill buchanan


    I don't think anyone is suggesting that martial arts should supplant the role of Psychotherapy etc. in such cases, however I might suggest that many on this forum are probably very aware of martial art snake oil salesmen who through delusion at best or downright unscrupulous behaviour prey on such victims of crime and their fears to line their own pockets selling so called easy to learn, time efficient, indeed "painless" self defence programs.

    In reality such classes that hide behind "deadly" street techniques or effortless demonstrations on compliant students have much to hide regarding martial competence! They remind me of "The Commitments" scene...
    "everybody form a circle, now turn to your right... And give each other a well deserved pat on the back"

    Group therapy may have many psychological benefits, but has no place in the art of fighting!

    Edit:
    I'm an wrong of course to compare wishy washy martial arts to group therapy, they are the antithesis of course - destructive cults of denial. But I hope you can hear my point?


    I take your point. But the reality is that, statistically speaking, the odds of a woman in ireland suffering two serious violent attacks are small.

    People who are recovering from an assault need confidence way more than they need the ability to fight effectively.

    That's why I think it's less important to focus on what art, but rather what can make the person feel most comfortable in their skin.


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