Exchanges that were broadband enabled. In 2012

regress

At the beginning of the year there were approx 270 Exchanges that had not yet been enabled for basic broadband

Could an Eircom Rep provide the following information?

How many Exchanges have been broadband enabled in 2012?

The names of these Exchanges.

regress

And bump.

A few things should probably be noted here although they have been said many times before. And thanks to Spongebob for filling info gaps left by Eircom reps.

1. Eircom has a monopoly in the enabling of Exchanges for fixed line broadband in Ireland.

2 Eircom has previously "promised" to enable many of the non enabled Exchanges. In particular

- Exchanges Listed on the now abandoned 2007 Broadband rollout program.

- Exchanges in the five major urban areas which Eircom promised to broadband enable in 2007 (take all orders promise)

So once again one simple question

1 How many Exchanges have been enabled for basic broadband by Eircom in 2012 ?

regress

And bump

How many Exchanges were enabled for basic slow broadband by Eircom in 2012?

regress

And bump.

regress

And bump it would be great as well if rep doesn't try to derail thread by posting about something that is unrelated to the simple straightforward question above. ( e.g upgrading of already enabled Exchanges)

regress

Bump

regress

Bump

Sponge Bob

I reckon this thread has more posts than there are eircom exchanges broadband enabled in 2012. The best part of 300 exchanges were never done.

regress

Perhaps. But we have received repeated assurances from Eircom reps that the rollout of fixed line broadband in Ireland "has not been abandoned".

If they are telling the truth then they should be able to provide us with a full list of all the Exchanges that were broadband enabled in 2012. Maybe listed chronologically or alphabetically or as a county by county breakdown.

regress

And bump

regress

Bump

regress

The great thing with bumping this is that is highlighting Eircoms refusal to answer a straightforward basic question.

So once again how many of the approx 270 Enchanges that had telephone line only available have been broadband enabled in 2012. How many of the non enabled Exchanges In the major cities. have been broadband enabled in 2012? How many Exchanges from the 2007 Broadband Rollout Program have been broadband enabled in 2012?

IE2012

you will be asking in 2013, how many cabs did eircom enable for FTTC




bump

Headshot

Pity this thread wont be a sticky

regress

IE2012 wrote: »

you will be asking in 2013, how many cabs did eircom enable for FTTC

bump

Not asking about FTTC fibre or NGB. Asking about progress by Eircom in rolling out bog standard sub 1mb fixed line broadband to the towns and cities of Ireland.

TCP/IP

Why do you require such information I can understand wanting to know coverage around you own house but why all exchanges that are not enabled.
I have no connection with Eircom and have no products from them I use UPC. I just wondering what you motives are?

regress

Because finding out how many Exchanges have been enabled nationally in 2012 will give an indication of the progress of fixed line broadband rollout and the chances of individual Exchanges being enabled. Eircom reps have consistently refused to say which individual Exchanges will be enabled in the future.

The information on the number and names non enabled Exchanges i.e. approx 270 was provided. by Spongebob. This is information that Eircom reps here refused to provide.


So we now know roughly the names and number of Exchanges that were not enabled for fixed line broadband. The reps have said thet for commercial reasons that they are refusing to say which Exchanges will be enabled in the future. All they are saying is that the broadband rollout program has not been avandonded.


So the least they can do is tell us the names of the Exchanges that were enabled for fixed line broadband in 2012.

TCP/IP

regress wrote: »

Because finding out how many Exchanges have been enabled nationally in 2012 will give an indication of the progress of fixed line broadband rollout and the chances of individual Exchanges being enabled. Eircom reps have consistently refused to say which individual Exchanges will be enabled in the future.

I don't think you will get this information as it could be commercially sensitive.
What use is this information to you personally. Say if you live Kildare what use is what exchanges are still not enabled in say Louth as an example.

Sponge Bob

What is of interest is that a lot of surplus ( Alcatel DSLAM) equipment will be available from 2013 as the VDSL program cannibalises ADSL1 and ADSL2 demand.

These units will be indoor gear and they can easily be installed in some of the 270 exchanges that have no Broadband at present AND where fibre is installed already.

In fact they are written off in accounting terms and can therefore be installed only for the price of the diesel and labour in those exchanges.

Crosschecking Galway and The Fibre Map with non enabled exchanges I see that Kilrickle ( announced April 2007 and still not done) along with Maam Letterfrack and Tully Cross are eminently doable with this surplus equipment.

Other exchanges can be done with an STM1 Wireless link instead of fibre, especially where they are used for Tetra or Meteor and have a mast onsite. eg Kilronan or Newbridge and then there is Woodlawn which has BT fibre within a few yards .....for 15 years already.

Many a good home for their surplus gear there and that is only a quick look see. Plenty more like those in every county in Ireland.

TCP/IP

Sponge Bob wrote: »

What is of interest is that a lot of surplus ( Alcatel DSLAM) equipment will be available from 2013 as the VDSL program cannibalises ADSL1 and ADSL2 demand.

These units will be indoor gear and they can easily be installed in some of the 270 exchanges that have no Broadband at present AND where fibre is installed already.

In fact they are written off in accounting terms and can therefore be installed only for the price of the diesel and labour in those exchanges.

Crosschecking Galway and The Fibre Map with non enabled exchanges I see that Kilrickle ( announced April 2007 and still not done) along with Maam Letterfrack and Tully Cross are eminently doable with this surplus equipment.

Other exchanges can be done with an STM1 Wireless link instead of fibre, especially where they are used for Tetra or Meteor and have a mast onsite. eg Kilronan or Newbridge and then there is Woodlawn which has BT fibre within a few yards .....for 15 years already.

Many a good home for their surplus gear there and that is only a quick look see. Plenty more like those in every county in Ireland.

Agreed loads of equipment that could be reused and I am sure Eircom will look at what is left over after current upgrades and will use as they see fit. As new exchanges if any come on-line I am sure they will announce them. As you are well aware some exchanges are simply not worth upgrading from commercial point of view.

Debs_Mann

Would love to see eircom, upgrade the phone lines in estates. There is a fibre network built outside estate by Government but no company seems to be using it to provide fast services.

Phone lines from our exchange are creaking and being sticky plastered all the time by eircom engineers.

Money really needs to be invested in to our phone lines

Solair

The rollout is painfully slow, that's for sure!

Not only might there be old ADSL equipment available from VDSL-enabled areas, but also the cost of ADSL equipment has definitely dropped dramatically over the last decade or so, as has the cost of a lot of other equipment needed for backhaul!

This stuff is 'old hat' at this stage.

Sponge Bob

TCP/IP wrote: »

As you are well aware some exchanges are simply not worth upgrading from commercial point of view.

I pointed out exchanges that had space and that had backhaul in situ.

Even if an exchange only has 200 active lines ( but does have backhaul and space) you may take it that 70% of those lines will take DSL. That is because most people have a phone line to get broadband nowadays.

70% of 200 is 140.

€20 extra revenue from broadband per line is 140x€20 or €2800 a Month or €33,000 a year.

You would make it back in year one.

You are correct in saying that there are commercial issues where for example the exchange has 100 lines and is on an island or where the exchange only has 16mbits of backhaul on a copper T3 shared with a nearby small exchange of course.

However at least 70 of the 270 exchanges that do not have ADSL make perfect commercial sense if you have surplus equipment.

Since someone mentioned Louth Louth only has 2 non enabled exchanges. Readypenny with an easy STM1 shot ( no fibre there) and another in Racecourse Road which really should be rolled in with the rest of Dundalk for cabinetisation as it probably has fibre.

TCP/IP

Hopefully they will reuse this equipment I think the exchange getting back-haul is not that much of a problem its the quality of the last mile were it really gets tricky. A corporate would look at these last exchanges and review the quality of the lines extending to the houses and see that a lot of them will never carry broadband without new cables laid and then the costs really do start to mount.
Commercially better to redirect you small budgets getting FTTC to larger areas were the quality of the last mile would be much higher.

Sponge Bob

TCP/IP wrote: »

Hopefully they will reuse this equipment I think the exchange getting back-haul is not that much of a problem its the quality of the last mile were it really gets tricky.

Lets be honest about this. eircom have never deployed small scale DSL units ( 24 and 48 port types) even though they could easily do so. The cost per port for a 24 port unit is around where the cost per port was for a 256 port unit in 2007.

Given that installation of same is much quicker inside a small exchange where space can generally be found in a rack the quality of copper argument is not as big an issue. In 2006 when the 2007 rollout was planned there had to be 128 to 256 'good lines' likely to take up BB , you could drop that to 24 - 48 'good lines' if you had fibre onsite...as many small exchanges do nowadays.

There is no way that 270 exchanges, considered uneconomic in 2006, are necessarily uneconomic by the same criteria now. Think perhaps more like 150 exchanges at most.

Consequently there is no excuse for eircom to abandon these exchanges...bar the amount of easy money they still make on dialup in some cases.

Even the economics of fibre backhaul have changed. It had to be buried 10 years ago or wrapped around thick power cables (to prevent bending and stretching) but it can be slung on overhead poles nowadays and is more tolerant of stretching and bending....as eircom well know seeing as they have deployed overhead fibre.

Solair

Ultimately, they'll just lose the custom entirely if they don't move.

Wireless access technologies are improving rapidly and some of the providers out there like Digiweb and Nova Networks are able to provide services that way exceed what eircom can do over a rural phone line. They also provide reliable voice services that replace eircom entirely.

Combine that with the rollout of LTE and rapidly dropping mobile voice prices, why would you be bothered with a landline at all if it can't provide broadband?

Blueface and Three an even provide you with a landline number on your mobile, if you're particularly keen on having one.

The classic PSTN landline is rapidly becoming a bit of a dead duck, without DSL it would have been even deader much sooner!

Also, I am actually beginning to wonder what exactly eircom are going to do when their old PSTN switches (and they are really getting very old, many date from the 1980s) become completely life-expired.

Surely the policy they should be looking at is ripping out ancient 1980s PSTN/ISDN switches and replacing them with some kind of modern, low-maintenance, cheap MSAN that delivers broadband and voice all out of one simple box and back hauls the whole lot over a single fibre / radio link using MPLS or something similar. They're ideal for rural areas. You'd simplify the backhaul and the network maintenance.

TCP/IP

Solair wrote: »

Ultimately, they'll just lose the custom entirely if they don't move.

Wireless access technologies are improving rapidly and some of the providers out there like Digiweb and Nova Networks are able to provide services that way exceed what eircom can do over a rural phone line. They also provide reliable voice services that replace eircom entirely.

Combine that with the rollout of LTE and rapidly dropping mobile voice prices, why would you be bothered with a landline at all if it can't provide broadband?

Blueface and Three an even provide you with a landline number on your mobile, if you're particularly keen on having one.

I agree in certain parts of the country I can only see wireless as an option.
Fact is most houses in the country will never see FTTH or even FTTC

Sponge Bob

Solair wrote: »

Surely the policy they should be looking at is ripping out ancient 1980s PSTN/ISDN switches and replacing them with some kind of modern, low-maintenance, cheap MSAN that delivers broadband and voice all out of one simple box and back hauls the whole lot over a single fibre / radio link using MPLS or something similar. They're ideal for rural areas. You'd simplify the backhaul and the network maintenance.

They made a decision as early as 2007 not to deploy MSANs.

Solair

Why would they flatly rule out a technology that was still a bit immature in 2007.
Seems utterly daft as it's a pretty slick solution for small exchanges and is definitely being deployed elsewhere.

You can shove an MSAN in a cabinet on the street too and you've instant voice and VDSL without all the crazy complex wiring needed to support legacy voice switches and DSL.

They should be deploying something like an MSAN and maybe something like a serious wireless product delivered from any mast associated with the exchange site.

At the end of the day, it's just an access nice with a fibre pipe.

I just don't understand what they're up to, other than ignoring rural areas / small exchange areas and hoping they go away.

Sponge Bob

Solair wrote: »

Why would they flatly rule out a technology that was still a bit immature in 2007.
Seems utterly daft as it's a pretty slick solution for small exchanges and is definitely being deployed elsewhere. .

Ah yeah but then there would be a USO on that line. The VDSL only cab ( no pots) means that eircoms USO ends on a VoIP softswitch in Dublin not in your house and it is up to YOU to log into that VoIP server.

2 stroke

TCP/IP wrote: »

Why do you require such information I can understand wanting to know coverage around you own house but why all exchanges that are not enabled.
I have no connection with Eircom and have no products from them I use UPC. I just wondering what you motives are?

Personally I'd like to know when I can contact people living in these areas with something resembling modern technology. Just a few days ago, a relative asked if I could send her some pics that she heard I had on facebook. I offered to post them on cd. She asked me to print them out instead, as she had no computer at home as she couldn't get internet.
I am an eircom customer on a reasonably good line for my area. I get .9Mb on a 8Mb deal. I cannot email some of my neighbours as they can't get broadband. Their kids sometimes have to come over to my house to do their homework. I stay with eircom as I believe if I move, my line will be swapped to a complaining eircom customer.

So eircom when will I be able to email anyone I want to in the 26 counties?

TCP/IP

2 stroke wrote: »

Personally I'd like to know when I can contact people living in these areas with something resembling modern technology. Just a few days ago, a relative asked if I could send her some pics that she heard I had on facebook I offered to post them on cd. She asked me to print them out instead, as she had no computer at home as she couldn't get internet.
I am an eircom customer on a reasonably good line for my area. I get .9Mb on a 8Mb deal. I cannot email some of my neighbours as they can't get broadband. Their kids sometimes have to come over to my house to do their homework. I stay with eircom as I believe if I move, my line will be swapped to a complaining eircom customer.

So eircom when will I be able to email anyone I want to in the 26 counties?

Have your Neighbours looked into wireless options and you say your are getting point 9 of a mb on a 8mb connection that is terrible and must be painful to use. What part of the world are you.

2 stroke

I'm in tipp, most of my neighbours are non techies, they would get broadband for the kids if it was easily available, but couldnt really be bothered keeping up with modern technology. Some of their phones are so bad you couldn't hold a conversation with them. Others have gone wireless but I wouldn't know them well, they tend to be the ones with high walls/security gates & intercoms.
My line is a fairly new line, achieved through a lot of complaining, and although speed isn't great, it is stable and doesn't drop connection. It can be a nightmare when theres 3 or 4 laptops on the wifi though

Headshot

Yap tipp is ****ing awful for broadband

2 stroke

TCP/IP wrote: »

you say your are getting point 9 of a mb on a 8mb connection

8mb deal, not 8mb connection. I can get .9 mb on the basic package but I pay the 8mb deal as I was being charged extra for going over my download allowance. Bloody ripoff.

Sponge Bob

2 stroke wrote: »

I can get .9 mb on the basic package but I pay the 8mb deal as I was being charged extra for going over my download allowance. Bloody ripoff.

Ah but you are OBVIOUSLY on 0.9mbits Next Generation Broadband so.

Think of the poor saps on 1st generation broadband ....who do not get charged for going over their 10Gb caps as well as still those on Dialup....ie most exchanges that were enabled in Tipp and quite a few besides.

2 stroke

I do think of them. Last time I was buying a computer, my regular supplier was telling me that modems didn't come as standard anymore and that he would have to add one. When I said I didn't need one, He went 'how t'**** did you get broadband?'
The ripoff is that eircom are happy to charge extra, if I exceed the basic package, but no discount if they can't deliver the package they sell me.

Headshot

Sponge Bob why would Eircom have such a low backhaul in some exchanges(16mb in Golden)? Would it cost much to upgrade the backhaul?

Sponge Bob

Headshot wrote: »

Sponge Bob why would Eircom have such a low backhaul in some exchanges(16mb in Golden)? Would it cost much to upgrade the backhaul?

Because it is ancient technology, 1980s ISDN. Great in 1985 or so,

Cheap to upgrade if they have a mast ...most exchanges do.

regress

Sponge Bob wrote: »

There is no way that 270 exchanges, considered uneconomic in 2006, are necessarily uneconomic by the same criteria now. Think perhaps more like 150 exchanges at most.

Consequently there is no excuse for eircom to abandon these exchanges...
the
amount of easy money they still make on dialup in some cases. .

Surely though there is a public interest and economic case to be made foe increasing fixed
line broadband availability in Ireland. It shouldn't just be about commercial considerations of the company that has the monopoly.

I think it is worth continuing to bump this thread. It wil highlight Eircoms refusal to engage and answer a simple basic question, so once again. How many Rxchanges have been broadband enabled in 2012?

eircom: Tony

regress wrote: »

Surely though there is a public interest and economic case to be made foe increasing fixed
line broadband availability in Ireland. It shouldn't just be about commercial considerations of the company that has the monopoly.

I think it is worth continuing to bump this thread. It wil highlight Eircoms refusal to engage and answer a simple basic question, so once again. How many Rxchanges have been broadband enabled in 2012?

Hi Regress
We are liaising with the networks team on this, as stated in previous posts and have forwarded all queries from this thread to the relevant people. At the moment, much of the information requested can be found on the on the wholesale site here (Click “Coverage Map” down the end.) I do understand that this doesn’t cover all of the queries directed to us and we are looking at adding extra info to the current NGB map to include standard DSL alongside the current NGB enabled exchanges. I understand that this has taken some time but we hope to have all relevant info available there in the near future. As stated in previous posts this is all the information we have available on this issue at this time. As soon as the information is available we will post notice here. Appreciate your patience on this.

Tony

Sponge Bob

Get US that list of non ngb 24mbit exchanges too Tony. Around 100 odd of them.

eircom: Tony

Sponge Bob wrote: »

Get US that list of non ngb 24mbit exchanges too Tony. Around 100 odd of them.

Hi Sponge Bob
Will certainly request that also.
Tony

regress

Annoyed and frustrated at this response. A very simple straighforward question which will give us some indication as to the progress of the rollout of fixed line broadband in Ireland. . I intend to continue to bump this thread to highlight Eircoms refusal to answer.

eircom: Tony wrote: »

Hi Regress
We are liaising with the networks team on this, as stated in previous posts

Yours was Eircom's first post on this thread after four weeks and 42 other posts. Why on earth do you need to liase with network team . Just answer the question "How many Exchanges has Eircom enabled for broadband in 2012?

eircom: Tony wrote: »

At the moment, much of the information requested can be found on the on the wholesale site here (Click “Coverage Map” down the end.)

. There is no list of the Exchanges that are not broadband enabled and no information on which Exchanges were broadband enabled in 2012.

eircom: Tony wrote: »

we are looking at adding extra info to the current NGB map to include standard DSL alongside the current NGB enabled exchanges.

Never mind about adding info to NGB map. Just answer the question. How many Exchanges
have been broadband enabled by Eircom in 2012?

eircom: Tony wrote: »

As stated in previous posts this is all the information we have available on this issue at this time.

As stated earlier there were no previous posts by Eircom on this thread. And I don't believe you that Eircom does not know how many Exchanges Eircom has enabled in 2012

regress

And bump

What Exchanges were broadband enabled by Eircom in 2012?

TCP/IP

regress wrote: »

And bump

What Exchanges were broadband enabled by Eircom in 2012?

As Eircom are not a public company they have no obligation to give this data let alone to some person on an Internet forum. This is commercially sensitive information as it would guide competitors offerings. I am not an Eircom customer or have any dealings with them. Just don't like the tone you take with their support staff whom you well know don't make decisions on information released. Why not submit your request to Herb Hribar instead of annoying the poor support guys only trying to do a job.

regress

I have nothing personal against any support staff. If Eircom reps were to confirm straight out that Eircom is now refusing to make this information public the thread would have served it's purpose.

However reps have not said that Eircom is refusing to release info on grounds of commercial sensitivity.

This is info that was publically available from Eircom in the past. They even had a website broadbandatoz.ie. which gave info on progress of rollout. This website is now shut down.

I also think that there is a public interest case for why this information given the effect that the possible abandonment of the rollout would have on our competitiveness and the fact that Eircom has a monopoly on the enabling of Exchanges.

So if Eircom wants to say that it is refusing to provide this info fine but that is not what they are saying. They seem to be claiming that Eircom does not know how many Exchanges Eircom has enabled.

TCP/IP

regress wrote: »

I have nothing personal against any support staff. If Eircom reps were to confirm straight out that Eircom is now refusing to make this information public the thread would have served it's purpose.

However reps have not said that Eircom is refusing to release info on grounds of commercial sensitivity.

This is info that was publically available from Eircom in the past. They even had a website broadbandatoz.ie. which gave info on progress of rollout. This website is now shut down.

I also think that there is a public interest case for why this information given the effect that the possible abandonment of the rollout would have on our competitiveness and the fact that Eircom has a monopoly on the enabling of Exchanges.

So if Eircom wants to say that it is refusing to provide this info fine but that is not what they are saying. They seem to be claiming that Eircom does not know how many Exchanges Eircom has enabled.

Of course they know what is and is not enabled. Its very obvious that they will not give this info out for commercial reasons they may in time once they launch their new FTTC/FTTH products but maybe not. Just go easy on the support staff that's all.

regress

Point taken but any comments I made are directed at Eircom. Reps working from Eircom have a job to do but I hope none of them will take any criticism of their employer personally.

TCP/IP

No problem maybe best to just let this thread die as its more than run its course. They know you want the info and they are not providing it so sort of case closed.

eircom: Tony

regress wrote: »

Point taken but any comments I made are directed at Eircom. Reps working from Eircom have a job to do but I hope none of them will take any criticism of their employer personally.

Not taken personally at all Regress. To clarify, yes the website broadbandatoz.ie which offered info on progress of rollouts has been shut down. The reason, as had been pointed out by others on this forum, is due to the fact it did not accurately reflect the NGB or future rollouts.

As I advised on other posts eircom are currently working on providing a newer version. Once this public facing website is up and running I hope it can provide all relevant information. In the meantime the NGB Wholesale site is the best reflection of our network.
As TCP/IP has suggested above I feel that we have responded to this thread and this theme and have nothing further to add at this time. As always we are happy to provide any customer or potential customer with information specific to their own area on possible enablement, upgrades or migrations in order that they can decide what suits them.

For any Telecom Service Providers wishing more infromation on eircoms network they can contact eircom wholesale directly here

We will announce the new site with as much fanfare as we can muster and hope that sufficant information is contained there.
Tony