Diesel / Petrol Quandry

manti452

I'm looking to change cars and am hoping to get a little advice here.

I'm driving a 1.6 petrol Pug 306, driving from top of the M1 to Blanch Centre for work daily. Multiple trips to Tallaght and Baldonnell on a montly basis and with occasional long trips in between. I'd say I've put maybe 50-55k up in 5 years and think the car gets good runs in order to keep things ticking along. Not abused but looking at maybe 700+ for gearbox/clutch work so thinking it's time to change.. looking at an a4 maybe..

I'm still not sure I'm doing enough mileage to warrant switching to a diesel. I don't suffer from the "need" to switch to diesel just want to make the right choice for what I need. I don't want to change over only to start worrying about things like Particulate filters not getting the required heat or air flow or whatever makes them fail if you're not getting the right mileage.

Looking at stuff like this makes me drool though: http://www.cbg.ie/car_detail.aspx?ID=5127941.

ads like this make me think.. great price.. why so low whats wrong: http://www.cbg.ie/car_detail.aspx?ID=5134142


What I guess I want advice on is, given I know next to nothing about diesels:

- Whats the current thinking about the kind if mileage required to get the benefit of diesel with the current technology?

- What kind of things should I be concerned about or looking for when buying a diesel..

- I'm going to assume a 1.6 engine in any car as big as an Audi A4 wil be underpowered unless there's some kind of injection in the engine?

Cheers
Jay

Ronan H

manti452 wrote: »

I'm looking to change cars and am hoping to get a little advice here.

I'm driving a 1.6 petrol Pug 306, driving from top of the M1 to Blanch Centre for work daily. Multiple trips to Tallaght and Baldonnell on a montly basis and with occasional long trips in between. I'd say I've put maybe 50-55k up in 5 years and think the car gets good runs in order to keep things ticking along. Not abused but looking at maybe 700+ for gearbox/clutch work so thinking it's time to change.. looking at an a4 maybe..

I'm still not sure I'm doing enough mileage to warrant switching to a diesel. I don't suffer from the "need" to switch to diesel just want to make the right choice for what I need. I don't want to change over only to start worrying about things like Particulate filters not getting the required heat or air flow or whatever makes them fail if you're not getting the right mileage.

Looking at stuff like this makes me drool though: http://www.cbg.ie/car_detail.aspx?ID=5127941.

ads like this make me think.. great price.. why so low whats wrong: http://www.cbg.ie/car_detail.aspx?ID=5134142


What I guess I want advice on is, given I know next to nothing about diesels:

- Whats the current thinking about the kind if mileage required to get the benefit of diesel with the current technology?

- What kind of things should I be concerned about or looking for when buying a diesel..

- I'm going to assume a 1.6 engine in any car as big as an Audi A4 wil be underpowered unless there's some kind of injection in the engine?

Cheers
Jay

Firstly, on your third point, you won't find an A4 with a 1.6L diesel engine, not in and around the 2008 mark anyway (unless the brand new models have it, but that's news to me if they do). The smallest diesel engine you will get is a 1.9L engine in an A4. They are all generally turbocharged engines, hence the 1.9TDi badge. They aren't underpowered, not from my experience anyway.

On your first question, it sounds like a complex question, but I imagine you are asking if it's cost efficient to get a diesel. For the most part, it seems to be. Diesel is cheaper to buy, and you get more miles out of it than petrol. That alone is probably as far as most people go with their investigations about whether they should get a diesel or not. I don't know enough to offer any advice on other variables that are worth considering in the petrol versus diesel debate, but that's a pretty big box ticked anyway.

On your second question, how long is a piece of string. Every car, regardless of fuel type, has "things to look out for". You could give yourself a very big headache and complicate your decision making process immensely if you start looking into too many things that might affect your decision. One of the most important things to look out for is if the car has been serviced regularly or not. The higher the milage, the more it should have been serviced. A car with high milage that has a good service history would be a perfectly good option, and nearly more tempting than a car with lower milage and no service history.

Good luck with your quest!

manti452

Thanks for the reply. Valid points all.. The 1.6 I was looking at was 2006

I certainly don't want to overthink it but just got stuff from reading blogs or seeing interviews floating around my head and don't want to end up spending a fortune fixing a car I shouldn't have bought for the type of driving me and the wife do

Ronan H

If it was a 1.6L A4 then it was a petrol model, not diesel. I'm fairly sure of that. It might have been listed incorrectly as a diesel?

The VAG stable of cars, i.e. volkswagen, audi, skoda and seat are all generally very reliable, or at least have a reputation for being reliable. In my own experience I can vouch for three years of total reliability in a petrol A4. There are also certain brands that have a reputation for being, let's say, not so reliable, but that's a debate for another day!

Ro

Media999

Defo not a 1.6 diesel A4. Its a petrol. There a lot more efficient than you would think for a petrol. Longest trip i done was from Waterford to Cavan and back. Cost me about E60 in petrol averaging about 110kmph on the motorway.

Beautiful car to drive and comfortable as hell. No major problems really in 5 years of driving. 2 batteries replaced is all.

1.6 is good value at the moment. You would get a good 02 for about 3000. If you had experience driving one you would realise thats actually mental.

Only diesel that isnt noisy in an a4 is the late 08 model onwards.

manti452

Ro / Media : sorry for the confusion.. was definitely a 1.6 petrol from 2006 I was looking at.

My quandary comes from trying to decide to stay with the petrol and try the 1.6 or move to a diesel. Difference in price is about 2.5 k for the two or three I'm considering. I'm used to managing a 1.6 petrol engine in terms of economy.

Media: did you find the car underpowered at all given the weight of the saloon and the relative size of the engine with it not being injected..

ION08

The TDI A4 would be a FAR better bet.

I think there is a lot of anti-diesel scaremongering going on nowadays and in general people are being overly apprehensive.

The TDI A4 will be in a different league altogether when it comes to relaxed, effortless, motorway cruising.

Your fuel economy as a result of driving mainly up and down the M1 will be excellent.

I'm not even sure if those models of A4 came with a DPF but if they did, I wouldn't be worried in the slightest given your motorway driving. DPF's only tend to give trouble if they're mainly driven around town and rarely given the opportunity to stretch its legs.

The only thing I would look out for would be the DMF / Clutch, but providing its in good nick, I wouldn't let it put you off. As you'll be cruising mainly in high gears and doing little stop/start driving , you wont be putting much stress on it.

If I had to drive up and down the M1 daily, I wouldn't even consider anything else other than comfy, torquey, Diesel. (Same way if I were to be doing mainly city driving, I wouldn't consider anything else other than a small peppy petrol engine)

manti452

Thanks Ion

The drive to work from port tunnel to the Quinn building in Blanch takes about 10-15 mins tops. If that's enough to keep things ticking over I think it does make more sense. I could just never reconcile the fact that my mileage wasn't huge and I still do all the normal short trips people make in day to day life. If things were more cut and dried in terms of all city.. or all motorway.. it would be easy making the diesel the more obvious choice.

Media999

manti452 wrote: »

My quandary comes from trying to decide to stay with the petrol and try the 1.6 or move to a diesel. Difference in price is about 2.5 k for the two or three I'm considering. I'm used to managing a 1.6 petrol engine in terms of economy.

Media: did you find the car underpowered at all given the weight of the saloon and the relative size of the engine with it not being injected..

What year are we talking in the diesel? Anything before late 08 model was a bit too noisy and expensive to justify for me. 1.6 is a small bit less powerful then the 1.9 tdi but incredibly quiet.

Honestly the only time i notice it being underpowered is uphill starts. Doesnt feel like the engine is too small but i can see why you would think that. Maybe if you where coming from a 2.0 petrol it would be underpowered.

Own a 1.6 A4 but ive driven quite a few Audis at this stage. Wouldnt swap to another brand.

1.6 is quiet, efficient and comfortable. Suits me fine as im basically in the same situation as yourself with mileage. You get your moneys worth a lot more in our situation and cars tend to have a lot less mileage.

1.9 tdi for me was too noisy but efficiency is incredible. Its a real workhorse of a car. If i lived out the country it would be my first choice.

2.0 diesel from late 08 onwards is the king. Somehow manages to be the quietest and the most efficient. Quieter then any petrol ive driven. 58mpg on a trip from Waterford to Cork. I think its responsible for the exodus from BMW to Audi. Best car i have ever driven or even been in. but costs 15k

ION08

Media999 wrote: »

What year are we talking in the diesel? Anything before late 08 model was a bit too noisy and expensive to justify for me. 1.6 is a small bit less powerful then the 1.9 tdi but incredibly quiet.

Honestly the only time i notice it being underpowered is uphill starts. Doesnt feel like the engine is too small but i can see why you would think that. Maybe if you where coming from a 2.0 petrol it would be underpowered.

Own a 1.6 A4 but ive driven quite a few Audis at this stage. Wouldnt swap to another brand.

1.6 is quiet, efficient and comfortable. Suits me fine as im basically in the same situation as yourself with mileage. You get your moneys worth a lot more in our situation and cars tend to have a lot less mileage.

1.9 tdi for me was too noisy but efficiency is incredible. Its a real workhorse of a car. If i lived out the country it would be my first choice.

2.0 diesel from late 08 onwards is the king. Somehow manages to be the quietest and the most efficient. Quieter then any petrol ive driven. 58mpg on a trip from Waterford to Cork. I think its responsible for the exodus from BMW to Audi. Best car i have ever driven or even been in. but costs 15k

Yeah the 1.9TDI is a bit noisier than I'd like it to be when idling - I think it's because it is a PD engine as opposed to a Common Rail like the 2.0TDI post 08. But to be fair, the 1.9 TDI is also fairly quite when crusing and once its up to speed ... you'd struggle to hear it over the wind noise at 120kmh

manti452

Media999 wrote: »

What year are we talking in the diesel? Anything before late 08 model was a bit too noisy and expensive to justify for me. 1.6 is a small bit less powerful then the 1.9 tdi but incredibly quiet.

Honestly the only time i notice it being underpowered is uphill starts. Doesnt feel like the engine is too small but i can see why you would think that. Maybe if you where coming from a 2.0 petrol it would be underpowered.

Own a 1.6 A4 but ive driven quite a few Audis at this stage. Wouldnt swap to another brand.

1.6 is quiet, efficient and comfortable. Suits me fine as im basically in the same situation as yourself with mileage. You get your moneys worth a lot more in our situation and cars tend to have a lot less mileage.

1.9 tdi for me was too noisy but efficiency is incredible. Its a real workhorse of a car. If i lived out the country it would be my first choice.

2.0 diesel from late 08 onwards is the king. Somehow manages to be the quietest and the most efficient. Quieter then any petrol ive driven. 58mpg on a trip from Waterford to Cork. I think its responsible for the exodus from BMW to Audi. Best car i have ever driven or even been in. but costs 15k

Thanks.. that's some good posting right there

-Corkie-

Op your nuts considering diesel at that mileage. Have a look at something in the line of a Passat 1.4 TSI..

Btw that 08 A4 on the second link is a scam.

ION08

-Corkie- wrote: »

Op your nuts considering diesel at that mileage.

Why?

manti452

Corkie: that's the quandary I'm wrestling with. What mileage do you think is the diesel "cut off" as it were?

Would a 1.4 TSI be responsive then with TSI? Assuming that stands for Turbo Something Injection?

Yawns

I'd go in around the 20k/m a year mark for diesel myself depending on how many short trips you do.

I've done just over 100k k/m in about 3 and a half years on my 1.3 petrol but I haven't switched due to the sheer number of short trips I do alongside the long trips. I've moved house since and still do far too many short trips than I would like if I was considering a switch to diesel myself. The brother has an a4 2.0 which does short and long trips too not unlike mine and over the years the cost of extra maintenance for his has far outweighed the extra expense of petrol.

Yawns

ION08 wrote: »

Why?

I assume he means because modern diesels are cnuts with low enough mileage.

manti452

Yawns wrote: »

I'd go in around the 20k/m a year mark for diesel myself depending on how many short trips you do.

I've done just over 100k k/m in about 3 and a half years on my 1.3 petrol but I haven't switched due to the sheer number of short trips I do alongside the long trips. I've moved house since and still do far too many short trips than I would like if I was considering a switch to diesel myself. The brother has an a4 2.0 which does short and long trips too not unlike mine and over the years the cost of extra maintenance for his has far outweighed the extra expense of petrol.

Does he/you equate the need for extra maintenance down to his shorter trips?

Yawns

Yes pretty much the shorter trips has cost him more in the long run. Absolutely he has the far far superior car for the longer journeys and terms of fuel economy but for the regular maintenance and daily shorter commutes the petrol beats it. His big dirty diesel ,with timing belt ,over frequent short journeys whilst more powerful costs more in the long term over my 1.3 petrol, with timing chain. He needs to service his more often than mine and we find parts are more expensive for his despite there prob being more of his cars on the road than mine. By expensive we're talking his parts usually cost 3 times what mine cost. His car is a lot heavier and also find the tyres need replacing more often and such things like that.

But in the meantime due to school holidays most of my journeys are now long motorway and I would love a diesel. But I may be moving and even if I don't move, school holidays are near over and I'm less than 2k/ms from the school with motorway driving most likely reduced to only once or twice a week.

-Corkie-

manti452 wrote: »

Corkie: that's the quandary I'm wrestling with. What mileage do you think is the diesel "cut off" as it were?

Would a 1.4 TSI be responsive then with TSI? Assuming that stands for Turbo Something Injection?

Your only doing 10k miles a year which is very low mileage. I know the whole DMF/DPF thing is played out here a lot but they are consumables that go with a diesel car. Also diesel cars are at a premium price now as most people cannot see through cheap tax.
Get yourself a well specced petrol for thousands less than the diesel equivelant and you wont be sorry.

manti452

-Corkie- wrote: »

Your only doing 10k miles a year which is very low mileage. I know the whole DMF/DPF thing is played out here a lot but they are consumables that go with a diesel car. Also diesel cars are at a premium price now as most people cannot see through cheap tax.
Get yourself a well specced petrol for thousands less than the diesel equivelant and you wont be sorry.

I hate to ask this (as I see a lot of threads on this board asking for suggestions).. but any suggestions :P

dgt

What exactly are you looking for in a motor?

PassMoz

Do not get a petrol car.
Fuel prices will only rise, the smart buyer buys diesel today.
Diesel is cheaper to buy, diesel cars get more miles per gallon and diesel cars are cheaper to tax.
On top of this Diesel cars hold their value much better.

Yes Diesels costs more but thats only because they are so much better. Only a shortsighted person would even think about petrol.

Some people say Diesel cars cost more to maintain but thats all rubbish, just look after it.

high horse

PassMoz wrote: »

Do not get a petrol car.
Fuel prices will only rise, the smart buyer buys diesel today.
Diesel is cheaper to buy, diesel cars get more miles per gallon and diesel cars are cheaper to tax.
On top of this Diesel cars hold their value much better.

Yes Diesels costs more but thats only because they are so much better. Only a shortsighted person would even think about petrol.

Some people say Diesel cars cost more to maintain but thats all rubbish, just look after it.

LOL

who_ru

PassMoz wrote: »

Do not get a petrol car.
Fuel prices will only rise, the smart buyer buys diesel today.
Diesel is cheaper to buy, diesel cars get more miles per gallon and diesel cars are cheaper to tax.
On top of this Diesel cars hold their value much better.

Yes Diesels costs more but thats only because they are so much better. Only a shortsighted person would even think about petrol.

Some people say Diesel cars cost more to maintain but thats all rubbish, just look after it.

either a troll or the worst reasoned post ever, i don't know which.

Yawns

I love the fact he's so sure when less than 2 weeks age he had to ask the very question himself.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=80030189&postcount=1

Our man in Havana

PassMoz wrote: »

Do not get a petrol car.
Fuel prices will only rise, the smart buyer buys diesel today.
Diesel is cheaper to buy, diesel cars get more miles per gallon and diesel cars are cheaper to tax.
On top of this Diesel cars hold their value much better.

Yes Diesels costs more but thats only because they are so much better. Only a shortsighted person would even think about petrol.

Some people say Diesel cars cost more to maintain but thats all rubbish, just look after it.

Enjoy your infraction.

manti452

dgt wrote: »

What exactly are you looking for in a motor?

Something bigger than my pug so probably a saloon. Will probably need baby seat space and anchors if they still matter with decent boot. Was looking at crossovers but too pricey. Need to come up a few years so this will last.

Everyone wants reliable but something that remains a little fun to drive. I'll ignore the diesel only troll as I know I need the right car for my needs. Budget is probably ten k plus my trade in which won't be much. Figured it would be an a4 or something like an Octavia or passat. But they seem boring

PassMoz

Funny how I get a message from some site owner about this.

I have done extensive research on this in the last couple of weeks and what I say is true. I have given the correct advise to the poster.

If you dont agree, fair enough. But at least say why you dont. Hillarious.

Yawns

PassMoz wrote: »

Funny how I get a message from some site owner about this.

I have done extensive research on this in the last couple of weeks and what I say is true. I have given the correct advise to the poster.

If you dont agree, fair enough. But at least say why you dont. Hillarious.

How shall we put it for your dear delicate brain.

You've simply told him to avoid petrol at all costs when to date he's driven an average of 10k a year. Fantastic start. Then you proceeded to tell him that the stories he hears about diesels needing more maintenance are untrue and to just do it. Shall we continue or have you read this and a light blulb has clicked on.

If a diesel suited you then brilliant. It doesn't mean it suits everyone. You yourself had to research to find if it suited your purposes. The OP may go with a diesel or he may not. He's not sure what he fully wants and he would like some advice on options, not some rambling about diesels are the only way to go.

He's looking for options on which is better all round. Diesel is cheaper fuel. Fantastic. Modern diesels can also bring problems that override any fuel savings in the long term. Short mileage on a diesel engine is a good way to start introducing some DPF/DMF issues unless you are aware of this and can try to prevent it. That's just one issue alone.

Not all petrols are great either and any car can have it's flaws regardless of fuel types. Glad you managed to find one to suit you. The OP is looking for one to suit him.

PassMoz

Yawns wrote: »

How shall we put it for your dear delicate brain.

You've simply told him to avoid petrol at all costs when to date he's driven an average of 10k a year. Fantastic start. Then you proceeded to tell him that the stories he hears about diesels needing more maintenance are untrue and to just do it. Shall we continue or have you read this and a light blulb has clicked on.

If a diesel suited you then brilliant. It doesn't mean it suits everyone. You yourself had to research to find if it suited your purposes. The OP may go with a diesel or he may not. He's not sure what he fully wants and he would like some advice on options, not some rambling about diesels are the only way to go.

He's looking for options on which is better all round. Diesel is cheaper fuel. Fantastic. Modern diesels can also bring problems that override any fuel savings in the long term. Short mileage on a diesel engine is a good way to start introducing some DPF/DMF issues unless you are aware of this and can try to prevent it. That's just one issue alone.

Not all petrols are great either and any car can have it's flaws regardless of fuel types. Glad you managed to find one to suit you. The OP is looking for one to suit him.

Ive had petrol cars that cost me A LOT of money. I am only pointing this out. Most of the problems reported with Diesels are only because the car is not being looked after. Its not a problem with the car, its a problem with the owner.
So I stand by that.

And I still maintain even if you do less then 10k miles, in my opinion Diesels are still the much better option. They are still cheaper to run, they are still cheaper to tax, they still hold their value better.

Yes its funny how I give my view and because the majority dont agree I get bashed. let me tell you majority are usually not correct. Thats not the way it works.

Yawns

Jesus am I feeding the troll here? Seriously!?!?

You didn't give a proper view tho. You simply said stay away from petrol and only go diesel. Not a proper view. You didn't reason anything out or show why in the long term diesels are better. You say diesels are fine if looked after. Guess what. All cars are fine if looked after properly regardless of fuel type. Petrol or Diesel. Both types are fine to run if looked after. I guess your trouble came from not looking after. Modern diesels throw more problems up than a modern petrol in a number of cases. Take the DPF/DMF issue for one basic example. Doing 10k a year will likely involve an issue at some stage down the road if the driver is not aware of it and can help prevent it.


Now off onto the ignore list you go because your posts on this thread have indicated to me that you are trolling and I am in danger of feeding you. You wonder why you got infracted. Enjoy your world, I'll enjoy mine.






































fruitcake

coolbeans

Your reasoning lacks reason. Paying a premium for a diesel when you're covering small mileage is extremely difficult to justify particularly when so many petrols are such bargains at the moment. You won't be told though...

PassMoz

Yawns wrote: »

Jesus am I feeding the troll here? Seriously!?!?

You didn't give a proper view tho. You simply said stay away from petrol and only go diesel. Not a proper view. You didn't reason anything out or show why in the long term diesels are better. You say diesels are fine if looked after. Guess what. All cars are fine if looked after properly regardless of fuel type. Petrol or Diesel. Both types are fine to run if looked after. I guess your trouble came from not looking after. Modern diesels throw more problems up than a modern petrol in a number of cases. Take the DPF/DMF issue for one basic example. Doing 10k a year will likely involve an issue at some stage down the road if the driver is not aware of it and can help prevent it.


Now off onto the ignore list you go because your posts on this thread have indicated to me that you are trolling and I am in danger of feeding you. You wonder why you got infracted. Enjoy your world, I'll enjoy mine.

Very clever calling me a fruitcake and hiding it in white text.

Actually I said many reasons why Diesel is a much better option, if you bothered to read it.

Diesel costs less money then petrol.
Diesel cars do more mpg.
Diesel cars hold their value much better then petrol.
Diesel cars cost less to tax.

Is that enough for you?, all you can tell me is that petrol cars are less likely to have problems, but any car can have problems.

The initial cost is not of much relevance to me as I see a car as an investment and when I go to sell my diesel car it will have lost less value then a petrol, therefore I have spent less for my diesel because it has higher trade value. Its about depreciation, shortsightedness is what your problem is.

Yawns

**** why did I click show post. I should have left it alone.

PassMoz wrote: »

Diesel costs less money then petrol.
Diesel cars do more mpg.
Diesel cars hold their value much better then petrol.
Diesel cars cost less to tax.

UGH!

You say diesels cost less and hold value better. If the OP were to go private he could therefore pick up a huge bargain for a petrol if he went that route.

Not all Diesels do better mpg that's down to the individual car and compare it to the petrol spec model. Simple.

Diesels costing less to tax? Pre 08 cars are based on engine sizes so vary depending on what size you get whilst post 08 now depend on emissions. Again how can you say all diesels cost less to tax than all petrols. Show me the cheapest diesel to tax, I'll show you a cheaper petrol.

So in the grand scheme of things you are looking at general views of diesels over petrols and not taking into account that if a diesel is unsuited for someones needs, well they should get over that and buy one anyway? Seriously?

I hate clampers but they could do with clamping your keyboard at this stage. Don't worry I've learned my lesson, I won't be clicking show post as you have as yet to put forward a decent case warranting a diese for a person driving 10k miles a year. Simply saying cos I say so doesn't count.

I'd just love to know when you save close to 1k in your tax and fuel savings, how much you spent on the extra services and parts that you've changed more regularly. Don't fool yourself into thinking it won't cost more to maintain a diesel because it does.

It's the main reason why people with a clue don't get diesels unless doing high mileage to take advantage of the fuel savings. They know they will spend more on maintenance but if they do 20 - 50k a year driving then they will see a savings. If they do 10k a year they will generally see no savings and could cost more maintaining the vehicle.

You have a good life now.



















































Oh and it wasn't supposed to be clever. It was supposed to be obvious, hence why the long space in between.

PassMoz

Yawns wrote: »

**** why did I click show post. I should have left it alone.



UGH!

You say diesels cost less and hold value better. If the OP were to go private he could therefore pick up a huge bargain for a petrol if he went that route.

Not all Diesels do better mpg that's down to the individual car and compare it to the petrol spec model. Simple.

Diesels costing less to tax? Pre 08 cars are based on engine sizes so vary depending on what size you get whilst post 08 now depend on emissions. Again how can you say all diesels cost less to tax than all petrols. Show me the cheapest diesel to tax, I'll show you a cheaper petrol.

So in the grand scheme of things you are looking at general views of diesels over petrols and not taking into account that if a diesel is unsuited for someones needs, well they should get over that and buy one anyway? Seriously?

I hate clampers but they could do with clamping your keyboard at this stage. Don't worry I've learned my lesson, I won't be clicking show post as you have as yet to put forward a decent case warranting a diese for a person driving 10k miles a year. Simply saying cos I say so doesn't count.

I'd just love to know when you save close to 1k in your tax and fuel savings, how much you spent on the extra services and parts that you've changed more regularly. Don't fool yourself into thinking it won't cost more to maintain a diesel because it does.

It's the main reason why people with a clue don't get diesels unless doing high mileage to take advantage of the fuel savings. They know they will spend more on maintenance but if they do 20 - 50k a year driving then they will see a savings. If they do 10k a year they will generally see no savings and could cost more maintaining the vehicle.

You have a good life now.

My advise is for the guy who made topic, he has said his budget is 10k plus so in that case he is clearly able to buy an 08 diesel.

Of course if someone is looking for an older car, before 08 my advice will change.

All my points stand for someone who does less then 10k miles a year.

manti452

Pass: I have genuine and valid concerns about the cost of maintenance required and the potential for things like a DPF to go wrong if I'm not putting in the mileage required to ensure the right parts of the engine get either the time or temp they need to achieve optimum running status. I don't want to be spending less money on road tax to have to fork it out later for replacement parts I shouldn't need had I bought the right car. My budget won't really cover an 08+ A4 which was what I was looking at initially as they're generally above 11/12K.

You may be right about diesel cars holding their resale value and doing more MPG but that's only true if I'm doing consistent driving over and above what a petrol would serve better. I don't subscribe to the theory that everyone needs a diesel and i cringe when I hear stories that salesmen aren't interested in selling petrols to people. Yeah I see more fluctuation in prices but I won't be replacing parts as a result of short drive damage to the engine. It's checks and balances and I feel I'm on the cusp of both camps. I certainly don't do enough outright mileage to make diesel the obvious choice.

I manage an on-line forum for a well known site, I just don't know cars as well so I came here looking for advice and I appreciate everything that people have to share with me. If I can offer some advice.. your initial reply was spectacularly unhelpful and dragged the thread off topic into a discussion about you justifying your argument when had you given some explanation as to why you found your statements to be accurate you might have been met with less hostility. Your call: learn from this experience or don't

Thanks for your input.

high horse

OP, at your mileage, petrol is the only sensible option. With your budget I'd get a Honda Civic with the 1.8ltr petrol engine from '08 onwards.
-44mpg official figures
-loads of space inside and huge boot (485 litres)
-Low road tax, €302 per year
-They're usually quite well equipped with MFSW, panoramic sunroof, etc.

I know this one is a private sale but it should give you an idea what I'm talking about

http://www.driving.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carID=201216207780034

PassMoz

manti452 wrote: »

Pass: I have genuine and valid concerns about the cost of maintenance required and the potential for things like a DPF to go wrong if I'm not putting in the mileage required to ensure the right parts of the engine get either the time or temp they need to achieve optimum running status. I don't want to be spending less money on road tax to have to fork it out later for replacement parts I shouldn't need had I bought the right car. My budget won't really cover an 08+ A4 which was what I was looking at initially as they're generally above 11/12K.

You may be right about diesel cars holding their resale value and doing more MPG but that's only true if I'm doing consistent driving over and above what a petrol would serve better. I don't subscribe to the theory that everyone needs a diesel and i cringe when I hear stories that salesmen aren't interested in selling petrols to people. Yeah I see more fluctuation in prices but I won't be replacing parts as a result of short drive damage to the engine. It's checks and balances and I feel I'm on the cusp of both camps. I certainly don't do enough outright mileage to make diesel the obvious choice.

I manage an on-line forum for a well known site, I just don't know cars as well so I came here looking for advice and I appreciate everything that people have to share with me. If I can offer some advice.. your initial reply was spectacularly unhelpful and dragged the thread off topic into a discussion about you justifying your argument when had you given some explanation as to why you found your statements to be accurate you might have been met with less hostility. Your call: learn from this experience or don't

Thanks for your input.

Thanks Manti,

Just do the math and make the best decision for you. I havent done exact figures for you but I would estimate you would be saving at least 900 euro a year on tax and petrol doing 10k miles by going with diesel compared to petrol a4. Thats the low end estimate.

But the big savings will be how much the diesel car is worth in a few years. This is what so many people cant comprehend. Yes the petrol car will be much cheaper to buy now. But guess what its value will also go down a lot quicker then a diesel. And guess what else, the value difference between diesels and petrols will only get bigger, why?, because fuels prices are only going to go up. Look at the bigger picture, dont listen to the nonsense.

Yes there can be issues with Diesel cars, but as Ive said this is an owner issue, not a problem with the car. As long as you look after it and make sure you get monthly motorway spins you will be fine.

MuppetCheck

The thing is with the diesel on shorter trips the dpf isn't allowed function correctly. This can be at least €1k to sort out. Also around town with low revs and high ish torque there is a chance of the dmf failing sooner. So you need to budget for a clutch and dmf at the same time. Some petrol have dmfs but they don't seem to fail as often.

If you do the maths it most often than not works out in favour of a petrol car at low mileage. As mileage rises the diesel becomes a better option. But the level where the diesel becomes a better choice depends totally on the cars. I also wouldn't see a huge savings on fuel costs on shorter spins. My car certainly isn't more fuel efficient on shorter spins compared to the petrol equivalent.

manti452

High Horse.. cheers for that. Always liked those Civics.. what's the logic behind that 1.8 petrol having cheaper road tax than my 1.6? That's emissions based as well is it?? The logic for me is that the 1.8 would drink more than my 1.6?

Pass: you've hit my concerns on the head there

Cheers Muppet.. LOL .. you know what I mean. I think the realisation is that I'm probably not close enough to diesel mileage and the 10-15 minute spin out the m50 every morning probably wouldn't be enough, or would twice daily sessions getting up to 100-120 kph generally speaking be enough to let the engine stretch it's legs?

ION08

To be fair lads, PassMoz is actually making quite a lot of sense and the high and mighty diesel bashers are being a bit hard on him.

You cant deny it, Diesel is cheaper, more economical and cheaper to tax and in my opinion it is a far better driving experience for motorways and national roads compared to a similar sized naturally aspirated Petrol (unless youre mainly pootling about town)

And all this talk about "price premium" is a bit overkill - you do realise that a diesel car will have stronger residuals when it comes to resale, and I'd be willing to bet it'll be quicker and easier to sell on when it comes to that time.

Yes I know, modern diesels have their flaws, and it is definitely something to consider but the as long as you are doing some motorway runs and not exclusively doing bumper to bumper city driving, a Diesel won't live such a hard life as some people like to make out.

Even If the op does 10k miles a year, he can buy a diesel car, save himself a fortune on Fuel and Tax, and it 2 or 3 years time lets say with an extra 30k+ miles on the clock, he will still have a very sell-able car in comparison to a petrol and if he buys with his head and and can drive with a bit of "mechanical sympathy" I doubt he will have any DMF / DPF issues in that time.

The way some people go on here, it's like if you buy a diesel you are guaranteed DPF and DMF failure within a week :rolleyes:

who_ru

ION08 wrote: »

T



Even If the op does 10k miles a year, he can buy a diesel car, save himself a fortune on Fuel and Tax,

Tax on low emission cars is certainly going up next budget, it's only a question of by how much.

manti452

who_ru wrote: »

Tax on low emission cars is certainly going up next budget, it's only a question of by how much.

Can you answer my query from above.. how does a 1.8 petrol civic get lower road tax than a 1.6 petrol pug.. is it emissions?

MuppetCheck

Yes

Media999

Cant we all just get along?

Id gladly pay the extra small few Euro a week for my car not to sound like a tractor and be a couple of years newer.

But for some people money is the main factor no matter how little it is.

Personally thought the 1.8 civic wasnt very comfortable and not great on the eye. Loved the 05 model though. Definitely wouldnt stand up to an a4. Speed yes but comfort no way.

PassMoz

Media999 wrote: »

Cant we all just get along?

Id gladly pay the extra small few Euro a week for my car not to sound like a tractor and be a couple of years newer.

But for some people money is the main factor no matter how little it is.

Personally thought the 1.8 civic wasnt very comfortable and not great on the eye. Loved the 05 model though. Definitely wouldnt stand up to an a4. Speed yes but comfort no way.

You see this is the same untrue information you get by some petrol owners on this forum, as shown in this thread.
Yes diesel engines are usually slightly louder. But they definitely dont sound like tractors. In fact many modern diesels are on par with petrol now because they use a premixing chamber.

On top of this as is already shown, in many cases, you dont save a matter of a few Euro a week....unless a few Euro a week to you is a matter of a few hundred Euro.

This attitude that you would rather have a car a few years newer makes no sense to me. But some people want to wear the year like a badge I guess. The year you bought the car has no relevance to its lost value two years down the line.

Just try and be objective and take these biased opinions with a pinch of salt.

Poulgorm

ION08 wrote: »

you do realise that a diesel car will have stronger residuals when it comes to resale, and I'd be willing to bet it'll be quicker and easier to sell on when it comes to that time.

When the general public cop on to the problems associated with modern diesels, their value will plummet. It may take a few years, but it is bound to happen.

shawnee

Values of most second hands have already plummeted here in Ireland. This is probably because the quality of roads and the lack of service history with cars. Well serviced diesels will still are and will still be a good seller

Media999

PassMoz wrote: »

You see this is the same untrue information you get by some petrol owners on this forum, as shown in this thread.
Yes diesel engines are usually slightly louder. But they definitely dont sound like tractors. In fact many modern diesels are on par with petrol now because they use a premixing chamber.

On top of this as is already shown, in many cases, you dont save a matter of a few Euro a week....unless a few Euro a week to you is a matter of a few hundred Euro.

This attitude that you would rather have a car a few years newer makes no sense to me. But some people want to wear the year like a badge I guess. The year you bought the car has no relevance to its lost value two years down the line.

Just try and be objective and take these biased opinions with a pinch of salt.

This chap hasnt the budget for a modern diesel.

Ive already said the late 08 2.0 diesel A4 is the best car ive ever driven. Quietest and most comfortable:pac:

Stop exaggerating with your few hundred a week. That bull**** and you know it. me and the OP do city driving with less than 10k a year. Stop veering of the original point please. regplate isnt anything to do with it. Fact is generally speaking the newer the car the more improved.(maybe i should have said generation rather than year). Id rather a Audi A4 B7 petrol than a B6 Diesel for the same money. Thats what i mean.

high horse

manti452 wrote: »

Can you answer my query from above.. how does a 1.8 petrol civic get lower road tax than a 1.6 petrol pug.. is it emissions?

Put simply: Yes.

That 1.8 engine in the Civic is very fuel efficient and the emissions from the car reflect this. Since the tax is based on emissions then the tax is also quite low

PassMoz

Media999 wrote: »

This chap hasnt the budget for a modern diesel.

Ive already said the late 08 2.0 diesel A4 is the best car ive ever driven. Quietest and most comfortable:pac:

Stop exaggerating with your few hundred a week. That bull**** and you know it. me and the OP do city driving with less than 10k a year. Stop veering of the original point please. regplate isnt anything to do with it. Fact is generally speaking the newer the car the more improved.(maybe i should have said generation rather than year). Id rather a Audi A4 B7 petrol than a B6 Diesel for the same money. Thats what i mean.

I meant a few hundred a year......sorry.