Does hard work pay?

bob charles

Its a question I often mull over, any of the successful people I know worked there socks off to get where they are now but came with it was a huge social cost.

redzerologhlen

It will pay the bills but might not make you happy. I know/knew plenty of mean old slaves to work that never stirred outside the door apart from to do something on the farm and money was all the cared about, never married or reproduced. No life really to be honest and all they worked for and all their money was no good after to them. Saying that I wouldnt condone doing feck all but its nice to zone out every now and again. I dont drink and have a small hatred for pubs and going out but I have a few mates that dont either and I would meet up with them a few nights a week and we would have a bit of banter without spending much really. One thing I have noticed about this country is that it is a bit hard to socialise if your not into going to the pub every weekend spouting the same sh*te over and over.

Tipp Man

Probably not bob as any few pound you make will be going to noonan

poor farmer

I am not so sure,I see some very successful/wealthy people who work very few hours and never break sweat.
Sometimes work can be blinding and you don't see the bigger picture

Manoffeeling

The hardest part of any job is planning!

20silkcut

A lot of older farmers in this country wasted their lives in the1960's 70's and even the 80's by refusing and dragging their feet over getting in tractors milking machines etc. Yes they were working unbelievably hard but what good was it to them. I know of a farmer to this day with 40 sucklers who only has a shovel and a wheelbarrow. You can work very hard alright but working very smart is the key.

reilig

I suppose its about finding balance between what you want to achieve and how much do you sacrifice to achieve it.

The last 20 years in this country has displayed a lot of financially successful people to this country and made hero's of them. But much of this financial success has been false. Take Sean Quinn for example. 4 years ago he was the wealthies man in Ireland. Famed for working hard. How many so called successful people are in a similar position to him, albeit on a smaller scale.

The truth is, you need to work out what you want to be, not how you want others to see you. It can be having an education, a family, etc. Perhaps one of the most important things that defines you is your farm. Its your business, but like a lot of other people out there, it is your way of life also.

At the end of the day, its what you make it. its too easy to get sucked in and forget about the most important things in life. Sometimes its good to take a step back and take stock!

49801

Short answer is NO.

Smart work does:pac:

8k2q1gfcz9s5d4

20silkcut wrote: »

A lot of older farmers in this country wasted their lives in the1960's 70's and even the 80's by refusing and dragging their feet over getting in tractors milking machines etc. Yes they were working unbelievably hard but what good was it to them. I know of a farmer to this day with 40 sucklers who only has a shovel and a wheelbarrow. You can work very hard alright but working very smart is the key.

I agree. I find that most farmers are unable to plan long term, and look to 10-15 years ahead. Because of this, these farmers are unwilling to invest in machinary because they are put off by the initial cost, instead of thinking of the benefits and time saved by having this machine in years to come.

Mac Taylor

Working smarter is a better option than working hard. A combination of both and knowing which is the most appropriate at the time is the only way to go.

epfff

I agree. I find that most farmers are unable to plan long term, and look to 10-15 years ahead. Because of this, these farmers are unwilling to invest in machinary because they are put off by the initial cost, instead of thinking of the benefits and time saved by having this machine in years to come.[/Quote]

It not that they cant plan long term.the reality that most farmers cannot accept is that in ireland farms/land bases are not big eneough to justify investing in machinery ect. To make life easy.
All business must have 4 things
land
labour
capital
enterprise

so not to go off topic hard work can pay if that is the one of the 4 you have in abundance.
but life sure is easier if you have any of the others

Tipp Man

20silkcut wrote: »

A lot of older farmers in this country wasted their lives in the1960's 70's and even the 80's by refusing and dragging their feet over getting in tractors milking machines etc. Yes they were working unbelievably hard but what good was it to them. I know of a farmer to this day with 40 sucklers who only has a shovel and a wheelbarrow. You can work very hard alright but working very smart is the key.

Isn't it ironic then that the supposed model for the future of Irish dairying doesn't have much more than a shovel or fork for 300 cows?

Is this progress or do the old guys have it right all along??

epfff

The old guys were nearly right
nobody is expert in everything
look at large successful companies they sub out work to experts

sh1tstirrer

Work smarter not harder

bob charles

okay, yes I agree with smart work but allot of the guys I looking at are very shrewd but still working very hard, there workload is just immense. In my farming business each year brings longer hours for less or equal pay if lucky. can I work smarter? / hmm suppose everyone can improve but room for improvement is getting smaller and smaller in our current business.

I talk to a few of my friends (30ish) who are now making serious wedge are all serious hard workers. they are working across a diverse range of jobs. Allot of the easy money that was made was spent easily but if you have to seriously work hard to make money you will extract much greater value from your brass.

Username John

Hmmm...
"work smarter not harder" is one of those lines you hear... Not sure why - but its one of those expressions that kinda gets to me
Its like some kinda line that lad from the office would come out with

As for hard work paying - if you enjoy it, then it will always pay.
If you don't enjoy it - then it will never pay, no matter how much money you make.

sh1tstirrer

bob charles wrote: »

okay, yes I agree with smart work but allot of the guys I looking at are very shrewd but still working very hard, there workload is just immense. In my farming business each year brings longer hours for less or equal pay if lucky. can I work smarter? / hmm suppose everyone can improve but room for improvement is getting smaller and smaller in our current business.

I talk to a few of my friends (30ish) who are now making serious wedge are all serious hard workers. they are working across a diverse range of jobs. Allot of the easy money that was made was spent easily but if you have to seriously work hard to make money you will extract much greater value from your brass.

I know of farmers that worked hard and ended up crippled in later life and I know of farmers that didn't work as hard and left a million after them (which their beneficiaries spent for them).

OldNotWIse

Username John wrote: »

Hmmm...
"work smarter not harder" is one of those lines you hear... Not sure why - but its one of those expressions that kinda gets to me
Its like some kinda line that lad from the office would come out with

As for hard work paying - if you enjoy it, then it will always pay.
If you don't enjoy it - then it will never pay, no matter how much money you make.

Agree...its up there with "hit the ground running" for me

I've always said I would like to have just enough money that I dont need to think about it. Enough to have a life, but not make it my life

bob charles

Username John wrote: »

Hmmm...
"work smarter not harder" is one of those lines you hear... Not sure why - but its one of those expressions that kinda gets to me
Its like some kinda line that lad from the office would come out with

Agreed, so much of ag work you can't work smarter, take for instance herding beef animals, instead of going looking at them how can this be done smarter at present, don't bother looking at them? spend allot on electronics to measure temp, movement etc/currently not feasible? Allot of job there is just no way of working smarter so you just have to put in the hours

bob charles

sh1tstirrer wrote: »

I know of farmers that worked hard and ended up crippled in later life and I know of farmers that didn't work as hard and left a million after them (which their beneficiaries spent for them).

There are always exceptions to the rule, local drunk left millions after him as he happened to inherit a farm worth a fortune in earlier life.

Tipp Man

Bob what do you class as successful??

Dozer1

if you have a good idea what you are aiming to do then yes it does pay other than that its just wasted effort.

I see a friend of mine working all the hours in the week travelling all over the country and is just earning enough to pay his way, no future in it and he'll be wrecked from it in a few years.

My idea is keep the steady 9 to 5 job going its handy work not too big a commute it'll pay the bills and mortgage, after that I try and spend all the time I can with the family and keep the farming to what needs to be done and try and get a contractor to do the rest.
Its the main benefit of part time farming.

I don't envy the likes of you Bob as u're 100% at the mercy of the beef trade, bad weather/ bad prices and all your hard work goes up in smoke.
I don't like selling cattle at poor prices but its not the end of the world as my off farm bills are covered which are the important ones.

Like others said on a different post until farming land is freed up and agriculture is treated like a proper business by the powers that be then you're always going to be under pressure.

Tipp Man

epfff wrote: »

The old guys were nearly right
nobody is expert in everything
look at large successful companies they sub out work to experts

sometimes people get too caught up in cosmetics and associate being successful with having a shiny car/tractor/shed/big house etc etc

Been at this farming lark a while and generally the people with the most money are the ones spending the least and in most control of costs. Cars, tractors, sheds, houses are nothing but costs, and large ones at that. There are very few people in this country that can have the best of these items and still have large bank balances. And anybody that does hasn't made their money at farming

sh1tstirrer

bob charles wrote: »

Agreed, so much of ag work you can't work smarter, take for instance herding beef animals, instead of going looking at them how can this be done smarter at present, don't bother looking at them? spend allot on electronics to measure temp, movement etc/currently not feasible? Allot of job there is just no way of working smarter so you just have to put in the hours

If you spent two hours running around a 10 acre field trying to get the cattle out and your neighbour used a temporary fence to get his cattle out of his 10 acre field in 10 minutes, which of you would be working smarter?

8k2q1gfcz9s5d4

epfff wrote: »

It not that they cant plan long term.the reality that most farmers cannot accept is that in ireland farms/land bases are not big eneough to justify investing in machinery ect. To make life easy.

I agree for the most part. I mean buying machines that will save a lot of time and labour every year. main example being the amount of stock farmers that dont have a front loader.

reilig

Levi Drab Sonar wrote: »

I agree for the most part. I mean buying machines that will save a lot of time and labour every year. main example being the amount of stock farmers that dont have a front loader.

We don't have a front loader and never had any need for one. Its horses for courses.

keep going

hard work does pay but not half as well as it should and it only pays if you are in the right bussiness.i used to do a bit in the building trade and during the good times i could make 200+ a day,now however the same amount of work would only make half of it.one thing i ve noticed is that a farm will make X amount with any sort of a reasonable effort but ask it to make another 10 or 20 % could take you twice as much work.eg cows stocked at 3 or less on milking platform will nearly run themselves(maybe not this year)but go up from that and you have to be alot more panickey spreading manure,topping making bales or feeding ration.just my opinion but it depends on your landtype obviously.also these clever clogs who say" work smarter not harder",give examples of how you are doing it:rolleyes:

8k2q1gfcz9s5d4

reilig wrote: »

We don't have a front loader and never had any need for one. Its horses for courses.

true not everyone needs one, or is actually set up for one. We couldnt live without ours, its used literally every day. We got our first tractor with a laoder in 97, since then a lot of our work is based around having a loader. I think it saves so much time which is very importand for a part time farmer.

reilig

Levi Drab Sonar wrote: »

true not everyone needs one, or is actually set up for one. We couldnt live without ours, its used literally every day. We got our first tractor with a laoder in 97, since then a lot of our work is based around having a loader. I think it saves so much time which is very importand for a part time farmer.

Interesting. In what ways do you find that it saves time?

Tipp Man

reilig wrote: »

Interesting. In what ways do you find that it saves time?

How do you cart out any of your calving boxes, creep areas etc?

I assume your round bales aren't stacked 2 high and you use a spike?

During winter our place would come to a halt if the loader is out of action for any reason

bob charles

sh1tstirrer wrote: »

If you spent two hours running around a 10 acre field trying to get the cattle out and your neighbour used a temporary fence to get his cattle out of his 10 acre field in 10 minutes, which of you would be working smarter?

Am I smarter again and just send the dogs in and have them out in 2 minutes, still though do you know the cost of keeping a dog (four legged specimen)

whelan1

or you could do what i did today , go to count the dry cows and look for 1 "missing" phantom cow for 2 hours in pissing rain:rolleyes: and think what productive things i could have been doing in those 2 hours:mad:

moy83

whelan1 wrote: »

or you could do what i did today , go to count the dry cows and look for 1 "missing" phantom cow for 2 hours in pissing rain:rolleyes: and think what productive things i could have been doing in those 2 hours:mad:

The father rang me to come home from work the last day because we were missing a bullock and that he must be in a hole or drain or dead . I had put him in with a few that suited him better about a month before :rolleyes: Just shows how often he was casting an eye over them

8k2q1gfcz9s5d4

reilig wrote: »

Interesting. In what ways do you find that it saves time?

lots of small things bit it all adds up. We have limited space for bales beside our sheds, now we stack them 2 high (when they are wilted enough!). this cuts down on bales we have to store away from the yard. we can bring in 2 bales of silage at a time from the field in the summer, and 3 bales of hay (2 on the loader). we use half tone bags of fertilizer to fill the shaker, we also use the same tractor to spread it so it may not be any quicker, but there is zero labour.
we fill our creep feeders from the bucket. Mucking out dry sheds. lots of smaller things as well, we couldnt live without it at this stage, we got out current tractor in 04 and have never taken the loader off

Insp. Harry Callahan

I think that there are always jobs on the farm that it certainly pays to step back at look at if it can be done handier(pays in less hard work not neccessarily money terms!) . in my own case, we bought a tub feeder for the 1st time last winter,made it so much easier to feed,no graping, less manual work. setting up a proper electric fence system all around the farm is priority for next year.
but for every good thing done to save time/work, natural instinct is to expand and grow the buisness,increasing stock, land etc.hard to get the balance right between work and time off. my dad still works,farming is his life, I nearly feel guility doing something else cos he doesnt stop.seems happy at it though but I prefer to get away from it myself from time to time.

Farmer Pudsey

A lot of you are mixing hard work with hard physical work ou cute work. I oftem wonder the answer to Bobs question.

I work hard put in long hours. I have a fulltime job and I farm as well. I made the choice to farm but often look back and wonder if it was the right decision. I would consider myself a savvy worker however because of having to make repayments etc I work long hours between farm and normal job. I also am involved in the sports that my childern take part in.

I often wonder if I would have a nicer lifestyle if I did not farm. I could finish work and have more family time. Even at work if I have a minute at lunch time for example I am chasing somthing down for farm.

At the end of the day I will be wealthier but at what cost. i think I know where bob is coming from up in the morning doing a bit of farming, off to the mart to buy a few cattle then if bought getting them home and sorted. 60-70 hour weeks and looking at the lazy f##ker down the road watching every match on tv and will not even go to watch his kids play a game of ball.

reilig

Levi Drab Sonar wrote: »

lots of small things bit it all adds up. We have limited space for bales beside our sheds, now we stack them 2 high (when they are wilted enough!). this cuts down on bales we have to store away from the yard. we can bring in 2 bales of silage at a time from the field in the summer, and 3 bales of hay (2 on the loader). we use half tone bags of fertilizer to fill the shaker, we also use the same tractor to spread it so it may not be any quicker, but there is zero labour.
we fill our creep feeders from the bucket. Mucking out dry sheds. lots of smaller things as well, we couldnt live without it at this stage, we got out current tractor in 04 and have never taken the loader off

We have old silage slabs around both sheds with stoned areas outside that and have plenty of space to stack all bales. Have a double bale carrier so can bring 2 bales at a time from the field. Don't make hay. Live close to the co-op and get the fertilizer loaded into the spreader with the forklift - don't have any disposal problems with the bags then. All calving sheds are accessible with the tractor and can be mucked out with the transport box or with a rear fork - both are on quick attach. Put in bales with a MF168. Saves putting hours on the bigger 4wd and reduces depreciation.

My point is that just because we don't have a loader (or need one) doesn't mean that we are less efficient than someone with a loader.

1chippy

Calve all your cows in one batch. Dehorning tagging and the critical months all come together. less batches running round thhe place. you then have two groups one heifers one bulls. one load to the mart at the one time. i think you have to work harder at certain times, but usually due to financial or time constraints things are let slip. i sat down this year prior to packing cidrs into a heap of cows and worked out advans, disadvans and overall costs before spending and it was one of the few steps i see to getting sorted. with the other game i'm working at i always try to get as much done as possable, even on day rate, there are lads that would say your an ass for not lying back a bit on day rate. but it seems to be these lads that don't get consistent work. i luckily have been kept busy right through the bust and have often asked myself the original question. the truth is if your working hard now you probably aren't going to change.

bob charles

before there used to be quite times of the year when we could take things a bit easier nowadays we seem to be always chasing our tails, allot more time is spent on admin/liasing with suppliers,contractors etc. probably to the point that we just have too much work on the go. Weather sure has played a huge part in unnecessary work hours over the last few years with the increased spraying and also, not getting much spraying done on days with showers etc. all this adds up.

keep going

bob i gather that you buy cattle in for fattening(but i could be wrong)often wondered how long it takes to assemble a bunch of cattle .2 of my relations handle a good few cattle and between days at the mart and buying private in faraway fields and drawing them around the country they lose a pile of time

epfff

Are we mixing up hardwork and time
i work basically every hour i am awake
i work hard only a few days a year(shearing,spade/fork etc)
I started at 6:30 this morning and finished at 21:10 but didnt work hard.(fed cattle,pricing stuff,mart,bit of tractor work)

bob charles

epfff wrote: »

Are we mixing up hardwork and time
i work basically every hour i am awake
i work hard only a few days a year(shearing,spade/fork etc)
I started at 6:30 this morning and finished at 21:10 but didnt work hard.(fed cattle,pricing stuff,mart,bit of tractor work)

think you have hit the nail on the head there, were doing serious time hours but how much of it can be considered as actual work. I made 3 calls today, 2 boys I deal with regularly and another done deal job:D, spent about 2 hours with each, not work but business still. So I done a long day but as relation to actual hard work I only done about 3 hrs. sleep time - wake time already again. I consider late finishes and early starts hard bloody work, suppose aslong as I think I'm on the road to success all will be forgotten:rolleyes:

vanderbadger

seems like a fair few lads on this thread are working and farming..do ye find when it comes to the farming part ye are always chasing yer tail?? always some other job to get sorted before tomorrow and another job..i work full time and i find its very hard to get time to get stuff sorted on the farm..even a day at the mart is pure hassle having to book time off..friends from college all head away on holidays or weekends but I always seem to be trying to get something done, i know thats my own decision but farming just seems to swallow up all your time, have a few loans to clear but would seriously consider going to 3 day week when im in a better position

sh1tstirrer

whelan1 wrote: »

or you could do what i did today , go to count the dry cows and look for 1 "missing" phantom cow for 2 hours in pissing rain:rolleyes: and think what productive things i could have been doing in those 2 hours:mad:

I know of a farmer that took on a young fella, on his first day of work the farmer told him to go down the fields and count the cattle there should be 31 there. The farmer had only 30 cattle in that field but was only checking to see if the young fella would actually count the cattle

sh1tstirrer

bob charles wrote: »

Am I smarter again and just send the dogs in and have them out in 2 minutes, still though do you know the cost of keeping a dog (four legged specimen)

Now you are getting the hang of it Bob

pakalasa

Similar story - A guy I know was sent to count cattle when he was young. He came back and said there was one extra there. Farmer went to find a stag in the field. Farmer thought it was hilarious that he didn't know the difference.

vincenzolorenzo

reilig wrote: »

We have old silage slabs around both sheds with stoned areas outside that and have plenty of space to stack all bales. Have a double bale carrier so can bring 2 bales at a time from the field. Don't make hay. Live close to the co-op and get the fertilizer loaded into the spreader with the forklift - don't have any disposal problems with the bags then. All calving sheds are accessible with the tractor and can be mucked out with the transport box or with a rear fork - both are on quick attach. Put in bales with a MF168. Saves putting hours on the bigger 4wd and reduces depreciation.

My point is that just because we don't have a loader (or need one) doesn't mean that we are less efficient than someone with a loader.

Fair play, sounds like you have a system that suits your needs and thats the main thing, ....but... I guarantee you if you had a loader you'd find tons of little jobs here and there that it would come in really handy for

reilig

vincenzolorenzo wrote: »

Fair play, sounds like you have a system that suits your needs and thats the main thing, ....but... I guarantee you if you had a loader you'd find tons of little jobs here and there that it would come in really handy for

I don't think it would be very efficient spending €7 k on one to find out

nashmach

reilig wrote: »

I don't think it would be very efficient spending €7 k on one to find out

Not necessarily - €1k would probably go a long way on a nice loader for the 168 - but given it is a 2wd I wouldn't really advocate it.

What screws most Irish farmers for efficiency is land fragmentation.

Luckily all our land at home is down one private lane but as part of that we have seven parcels with usually each parcel just a field or two.

Toplink

vanderbadger wrote: »

seems like a fair few lads on this thread are working and farming..do ye find when it comes to the farming part ye are always chasing yer tail?? always some other job to get sorted before tomorrow and another job..i work full time and i find its very hard to get time to get stuff sorted on the farm..even a day at the mart is pure hassle having to book time off..friends from college all head away on holidays or weekends but I always seem to be trying to get something done, i know thats my own decision but farming just seems to swallow up all your time, have a few loans to clear but would seriously consider going to 3 day week when im in a better position

I can identify with you.

I work full time in an industry that I have absolutely no passion for but it pays very well and I am going to stick to it for a min of 10 years till mortgage is paid off and a fund is built up for the kids education. I also run a small business part time. The part time business generates a few pound so its worth it to keep it ticking over. I work about 70 hours a week in all and it takes its toll on you. I don't play as much sport as I'd like to is the main gripe I have.

To add to this I will be taking over a medium sized suckler farm from the old man in about 5 years time and due to the experiences I have with the small business I can see the time constraints that lie ahead.

My dream is to build the small business to a point where it could be run in conjunction with the farm, take redundancy from the job and invest it in the farm and spend my late 40s and beyond farming. This dream is full of romantic visions of having a handy ould time with no stress...

Anyway, I am rambling here... but when your lying on your death bed I doubt you'll be wishing you spent more time working. I would suggest that family is the most important thing, time for yourself is also important but work to live... DONT LIVE TO WORK.

aneala

I think it's all relative to what you want from life and what you are prepared to do to get it. Im sort of in the part time boat, I work full time (50-60 hr/wk) and spend weekends on the home place, about 50km away, trying to put some shape on it with my brother who also works full time. Its not big enough for either of us to ever make a living of it even though we would both love to be able to. My wife is not mad on me being gone most of every weekend and this will change as we are expecting our first in a few weeks but I could never imagine not Doing some bit of farming, also feel its invaluable for kids to at least experience it growing up.

I'll never be rich from either but as I've said it's the lifestyle you want that makes you happy. Saw this below on a coffee shop wall in a hospital, thought it was a great way to put things into perspective.



When things in your life seem almost too much to handle, when 24 hours in a day are not enough, remember the mayonnaise jar... and it's story...

A professor stood before his philosophy class and had some items in front of him. When the class began, wordlessly, he picked up a very large and empty mayonnaise jar and proceeded to fill it with golf balls. He then asked the students if the jar was full. They agreed that it was. The professor then picked up a box of pebbles and poured them into the jar. He shook the jar lightly. The pebbles rolled into the open areas between the golf balls.He then asked the students again if the jar was full. They agreed it was.

The professor next picked up a box of sand and poured it into the jar. Of course, the sand filled up everything else. He asked once more if the jar was full. The students responded with an emphatic "yes." The professor then produced two cups of coffee from under the table and poured the entire contents into the jar, effectively filling the empty space between the sand. The students laughed. Now," said the professor, as the laughter subsided, "I want you to recognize that this jar represents your life.



The golf balls are the important things. Your family, your children,your faith, your health, your friends, and your favourite passions. Things that if everything else was lost and only they remained, your life would still be full. The pebbles are the other things that matter. Your job, your house, and your car.

The sand is everything else. The small stuff. "If you put the sand into the jar first," he continued, "there is no room for the pebbles or the golf balls. The same goes for life. If you spend all your time and energy on the small stuff, you will never have room for the things that are important to you.

Pay attention to the things that are critical to your happiness. Play with your children. Take time to get medical checkups. Take your partner out to dinner. Play another 18. There will always be time to clean the house and fix the disposal. Take care of the golf balls first, the things that really matter. Set your priorities. The rest is just sand."

One of the students raised her hand and inquired what the coffee represented. The professor smiled. "I'm glad you asked. It just goes to show you that no matter how full your life may seem, there's always room for a couple of cups of coffee with a friend."