Are my parents stingey?

LegacyUser

Hello peeps,
I was just reading that thread in After Hours “stingiest thing you’ve ever seen” (excellent thread and it got me thinking about my parents’ stinginess. I thought, and still continue to think that my parents were incredibly stingey when I was a student, but I would like to get other peoples’ views and see if I’m right or wrong.

Basically when myself and my younger brother and sister were children we had an excellent childhood, we weren’t taken to Disneyland or anything like that but always had the latest toys, me and my brother had latest computer games, mountain bikes etc, and we went to seaside in the summer. I can’t fault my parents’ generosity then but when we got a bit older I think they turned quite stingey. Basically I’m talking about me and my brother’s education and trying to get a good job. It seems to me like the parents basically tried to make things much harder for me and my brother and put up extra obstacles to our success, both financially and otherwise.

When I went away to college when I was 18, even the very first day was beset with the parents refusing to help. I had been working late the evening before and needed to get to college for the introduction day the next morning. The earliest bus was too late so I needed a lift from the parents. The mother was in hospital recovering from appendicitis and so I asked the father who said no because he needed to get the brother and sister to school. I asked him could he drive me early in the morning, 1 hour 45 minutes each way but he refused saying he would be too tired. I tried to suggest getting alternative arrangement for the brother and sister going to school (it’s a 15/20 minute drive) but he refused. As a result, I missed the induction morning but thankfully managed to get shown around the college and introduced to some of my classmates.

In terms of finances, the parents gave me 1,000 euro when I started 1st year for which I was very grateful. That combined some other money from grandparents and the money I had saved up from working in the supermarket all summer beforehand meant I was fine for money. But the years after 1st year in college I didn’t have as much money, the parents gave me 25 euro a week which covered the cost of my return bus fare home each weekend and that was it. I still managed to get by by working full time in the summers and part time at weekends, but I always had to keep a close eye on the expenses, as most students do!

After third year in college I got a pretty good summer job working on a building site. Thanks to the Celtic tiger economy at the time (tongue in cheek!) I was making very good money, over 700 euro a week take home. I didn’t socialise or party much at all, partly because I was working so many long hours, and so put away almost all of my money for the next college year, meaning I wouldn’t have to work and could concentrate just on my studies. When I had this job however, my parents demanded that I give them 150 euro a week rent. This included food and bills, but I still think it was a bit steep asking for that much money. Obviously 700 euro is a lot of money to be getting every week but it wasn’t as if I was living the high life, I was putting all of that money away for my education, and they knew this. Anyway, over the course of that summer I gave my parents over 3,500 euro (I owed them some money because they had loaned me some money before the summer).

Anyway I later found out that that year, when I had been working on the construction site and given my parents 3.5 k in rent, my father’s business had done quite well (he has his own garage for fixing cars) that year and the year beforehand. My parents net income for that year, so after tax and all deductions, was 85,000 euro. Their mortgage was 1,000 euro a month. And then I paid them the 3.5k on top of that.

That summer I also had to repeat 2 college exams, 2 mathematical based subjects as part of the accountancy course I was doing. I really struggled with these subjects and my parents knew this because I told them. Anyway I was studying at home for the repeats and trying to find enough time for study with work, I managed to get a few days off in a row just before the exams. I was studying intensely and getting a bit stressed but still managing. Then my mother informed me that my younger sister (then 16) was having a party in the house with her 16 year old friends and they would be drinking vodka. The parents were going away for the weekend you see. This was 2 days before my repeat exams. When I told her about my repeat exams, she said tough, that I wasn’t the only person in the house. After I nearly lost the plot, the mother agreed to tell the sister to have their party elsewhere but told me I was being selfish. Bear in mind that we live in west Cork so there wasn’t any public library I could go to study, and anyway I needed to study late at night also because there was so much to cover.

I managed to pass my repeats thankfully, and finished my degree. I then spent that summer basically looking for work. I didn’t have a penny left after final year (spent all the money I had saved up from the building site) and got a part time job in a local pub. I was making 200 euro a week and parents charged me 50 euro per week for rent. Bear in mind that I was regularly travelling to Cork city and Dublin the odd time to apply for jobs, hand out CVs, attending a few interviews and all this expense came out of my pocket. It was also at this time that I needed to dust off the only suit I had for job interviews. I had bought the suit myself a year beforehand for college ball. Now I know a lot of parents, especially fathers will take pride in bringing their son to get their first suit and buying them a nice one, but not in my case, I had to pay for it myself. Anyway, when I took it out of its cover in the wardrobe I noticed the trousers were gone, turned out the mother had lost them in between moving my clothes around. She denied it at first but then accepted that it was her and apologised, neither her nor my father offered to buy me a new pair of trousers or a new suit however. I was left with no option but to wear a different pair of trousers to go with the suit jacket for interviews. They went ok together but didn’t match perfectly, and when you’re going for interviews the last thing you want is not to feel confident in what you’re wearing. Anyway, I didn’t manage to get any proper job that summer so I decided the best option was to go back for a masters.

Not having a button, I brought the idea up with the parents of going back for a masters, they said good luck to you, but we won’t be giving you a penny. I thus took out a 7 ½ grand loan with the bank, which I was delighted and relieved to get for my Masters. I wasn’t eligible for a grant because of my father’s business doing well. Masters went grand and in hindsight it allowed me to get the job I have now. Anyway, after the masters I went back home for a brief period, as I had again literally no money having spent everything that year in college on living expenses. I again managed to get a job at the same pub with more hours this time so I was making 300 euro a week. I also started paying back the education loan I got, so was paying 30 euro a week on that. My parents then demanded 100 euro a week and told me that they wouldn’t hesitate to throw me out onto the street if they didn’t get it. I tried to explain to them that my goal was to save a little money and eventually move to Dublin to get a good job in my field, and it was necessary to get a few quid in the bank. They said they didn’t care, and as long as I was at home I had to pay up. They told me calmly that if the money wasn’t received by a certain day, then they would pack my stuff in a suitcase and leave it on the doorstep. We eventually managed to agree on 70 euro a week.

After a while of living like this, I managed to secure an internship in a large accounting firm in Dublin. I was over the moon to get this, saw it as my opportunity to make it and my ticket to success. I was delighted and when I told my parents, they said congratulations and seemed genuinely very happy for me. They also realised that this was my big break and wished me the best of luck. Then my father gave me some advice, he said I should go down to Penney’s and get myself a nice cheap suit. This left me gobsmacked. After the earlier incident with my first suit, and this being my big chance, I thought they would insist on getting me a nice good quality suit and they pay for it. Instead, they recommended I get myself the cheapest suit and that I pay for it myself. Anyway I managed to get a decent suit on sale in Dunnes which didn’t look too bad at all.

The parents then gave me a gift of 100 euro to say congratulations for getting the internship, and I left for Dublin with 500 euro to my name. It cost me over 1,000 euro for first months rent and deposit, and then other expenses came. On top of that I wouldn’t receive my internship wage (minimum wage) until after the first month. Thankfully I managed to get an overdraft with the bank and that kept me ticking over. Anyway after living on my overdraft and credit card for a while it eventually caught up with me, and I literally couldn’t afford to pay rent. I was constantly playing catch up you see, and the loan repayments while on minimum wage didn’t help. I asked the parents for money and in fairness to them, they transferred 1,000 euro into my account which really helped me.

I was very grateful for this, but then thinking back on it in hindsight, I had paid my parents over 6,000 euro in total rent over the space of 3 summers on and off for an uncomfortable room in a basic house. If they hadn’t charged me rent then I would have been in a much more comfortable position moving to Dublin as I would have had that money saved up. I argued with them at the time and told them they were being unfair charging me so much rent at a difficult period in my life/education. They just laughed and said I was being completely unrealistic and that every young person who has any income pays keep at home regardless of their circumstances. I gave them over 10 examples of friends which they knew, including their parents, and told them they weren’t paying rent. I also gave them examples of people they knew whose parents were not only not charging them rent but actually giving them money for college fees, car insurance, travel etc. They told me I was lying and wouldn’t accept what I was saying. I’ve brought up the issue several times since and they refuse to accept that they were wrong.

Reading this you may get the impression my parents are really conservative, old fashioned types with traditional values. That is not the case at all, they are (or at least were at the time) quite young, having me, the eldest of 3 kids at the age of 24. They are also in general extremely generous with money to other people, buying nice gifts for other family members and friends and being well-known for buying rounds of drinks in the pub for everyone, including friends of friends. They also go to concerts whenever they can. I think that they have that old Irish mentality of “keeping up with the Jones” and showing yourself to be generous in front of the neighbours rather than actually focusing on the welfare of your children.

Things have gone quite well since then thankfully. After doing the internship in the accounting firm I got a proper job with them, and have recently taken up a promotion in their London offices. Myself and my girlfriend have now been living here in London for the last 8 months. Despite this, and numerous invitations, the parents have shown no interest in coming over to see us. The main reason I wanted them to come was to see our boy who is now 2. He used to love when they visited when we were in Dublin and always loved their company. My mother has photos of him all over facebook but strangely will not come see us in Dublin, even during this summer when they had holidays. I get the impression that they don’t want to spend the money for the flights.

That’s my situation anyway. Regarding my brother, I think they have also been quite bad with helping him out. They paid his college fees for first year but made a song and dance about it, making him feel guilty and like a burden for them giving him the money. He wasn’t in a position to help himself as he couldn’t get part time work. So the parents gave him a lump sum for registration fees, etc. He has also informed me that anytime he has asked for ad hoc expenses such as course books, money for field trip with class etc, the parents make another big song and dance pointing out that they already gave him x amount for college. He also doesn’t have a laptop for his course which he could do with. I know it isn’t the end of the world but in this day and age, he could really do with 1 for typing his assignments. The parents were willing to buy him a cheap notebook a few years and gave him the money. His friends were going on holiday however and he choose to spend the money on that which was a bit silly but that’s youth. Anyway, the parents said well that’s your choice, we’re not going to pay for both your holiday and computer.

After his 1st year in college, I paid all of his registration fees and tried to give him something to live on, as by that stage I had got the decent job in Dublin. The parents gave him something small on top of that and he was able to make his way. Thankfully he has landed on his feet since graduating and is now doing quite well and living in Cork city. After I gave him the money for 2nd year in college, I remembered a comment my father made to me when he was drunk and I was 12/13. I was very good at school at that age and already expressed an interest in going to college. The father then said completely out of blue, something along the lines of – “well you seem to be on the path to success, so when you get a good job, you can look after Steven (my brother) and pay his way for college, alright?”. They say a drunk man’s actions are a sober man’s thoughts, either way, his intention was clearly to avoid paying as much as he could towards his kids college education.

I pointed out to the parents at a later date that they should have had a college fund set aside for each of us, which they told me was none of our business. I also realised that they were spending approximately 20 euro a week on the lotto, every week. I thought this was a ridiculous amount to gamble every week on something in which the odds are stacked against you. I added it up and worked out that if they put the same amount of money into some kind of an savings/investment account they would have been able to provide for me and my brother for college over all the years. Again, they told me it was none of our business.

While I thought the Lotto thing was bad, I then discovered when trying to help my brother with his grant application that the parents had re-mortgaged the family home while I was in college. They released over 100k of equity and then pissed it away on a new car, holiday, getting the house re-decorated and the rest in the pub over the space of a few years.

In addition to this, they never taught me or my brother how to drive when we got to our late teens/early 20s. This actually affected 1 job interview that I went to as the location was quite remote and they asked me if I had a car as it would make it much easier. This resulted in me learning (at considerable expense from instructor) in Dublin while I was working full-time and looking after the baby. We had asked them to show us how to drive but they both just said they were too busy and it wasn’t important at that stage of our lives. Luckily, Steven (my brother) managed to get lessens off his friend, and then a friend’s relative who is a driving instructor at a reduced rate (again he had to pay for the lessons himself).

Fast forward a couple of years then. Everything going grand, myself and my girlfriend have just had our first baby, and we’re still in that drunk with love new baby phase a few weeks after his birth. I then get a call out of the blue from the bank. I had given my credit card to my mother a few years beforehand, as the bank gave me a huge limit when I was a student (silly banks eh!) and my parents credit card had a much lower limit. The mother asked and I said no problem, here’s my card. The bank were ringing to tell me there was a 3, 000 euro bill that hadn’t had any payments in ages. I was livid with the mother, she came up with every excuse under the sun explaining her actions and even turned it around on me and made me out to be the bad one, saying that she used it to help out her mother (my grandmother) because she was going through a hard time, and if I cared about my grandmother I should understand. This seriously affected my credit rating (I checked it out) and it may stop me and my girlfriend getting a mortgage here in London which is our intention.

Anyway, that’s a lot of examples (there’s probably more if I think about it) of my parents actions regarding me and my siblings education and career. The reason I posted it up is because I’m now a parent myself and my boy’s education is of such importance to me, I could never see myself doing what they did. I would like to get other peoples’ opinions on this, especially people who have been in similar situations either as students or parents themselves.

daisybelle2008

OP you need to get over this. I am genuine when I say I was (and still am not sure) if you are taking the p*ss. You being 'gobsmacked' about being advised to get a Suit in Penneys is actually funny. Be thankful your parents are alive and well, plenty don't have theirs around to be getting as petty as you are about a few euros. Appreciate what you have.
I watched the guy who won the Olympic marathon who had to leave his poor family behind as barely a kid to move to a strange country. Count your blessings you have many!

woodchuck

Wow, that was long OP!

The short answer is; no, I don't think you parents are/were stingy.

Your parents did their job in raising you and it sounds like you didn't want for anything. Once you're 18 you have no entitlement to any money from them. Of course good parents would be their to help their kids when they need it and you've given numerous examples of how they did this for you. I don't think the amount of rent they were asking for was that much considering how much you were earning (and they did scale it down when you were earning less)

It sounds like you've a misplaced sense of entitlement or maybe you're just jealous of friends of yours who had it better off during their college years. You need to get over it.

The only 2 things that stood out from your post were:
1. Your parents not visiting you in London (but would have nothing to do with stinginess imo)
2. You mother running up a bill on your credit card.

Everything just sounds like a teenager having a moan... sorry, but that's how it comes off to me Your education (after 18), career, learning to drive etc is all your own responsibility, not your parents. (and the thing about the suit baffles me... never heard anyone making a big deal of getting their first suit from their parents )

HJL

daisybelle2008 wrote: »

You being 'gobsmacked' about being advised to get a Suit in Penneys is actually funny.

He paid them €6000 in the space of 3 summers in rent despite him only being home for the summer months in between college to work and get a bit of money together for the next september. He should of got an Italian tailor made suit!

It sounds like they were using you as some sort of cash cow to spend money on drink and new cars.

I dont understand how they never taught you to drive either as you say they run a garage? Any kids of garage owners i know of all learned to drive before they could see over the steering wheel as there was always cars lying around. But that point is neither here nor there.

I understand peoples circumstances are different and plenty of parents would not have the income to support a child in full time education, but that doesnt mean that they charge you rent when you are back for the summer. At least not amount, sure throw a bit into the pot if you are earning but €150.00 per week is a extorniate, i know you were on a high wage but it was only for the summer so it was short lived.

And from what you say they weren't on the bread line anyway.

The above is all in my opinion of course.

Ellsbells

It always astounds me when people who have been reared in a good home to adulthood, expect the world (and their parents) to owe them a living. Why do grown adults expect to live in their parents house as adults and not pay anything???? What ever happened to flying the coop and making it on your own.. Smacks to me of over indulged, spoilt brats.

Katgurl

I think you need to accept your parents are human beings. You are obsessing over tiny ways they wronged you like not giving you a lift one time. Yes they could have been more generous but you are sounding very entitled as if by being their son you have earned the right to presents. If anything, they sound like they taught you to fend for yourself. And when push came to shove they did pay up for your bros reg fees etc.

It sounds like your parents have different priorities to you. Did they go to college? Perhaps they feel that they worked so hard to spoil you and see you through school but were both in agreement that their responsibilities ended there, at that stage you were an adult and they were looking forward to relaxing and getting their own lives back.

Do you go and visit them? Do you actually appreciate it when they do give you stuff? Tbh, if I gave 1,000 present to a teenager and their reaction was to tell me how somebody else got more I wouldn't bother. And as for your views on a basic room in a basic house - if you were too good for it why didn't you push off elsewhere? They didn't have to let you move home and you're describing all the money you gave them as if they were robbing you blind. Perhaps they wanted some privacy and house to themselves?

username123

Maybe they are stingy, maybe they arent. Its only your perception of the story youve told and from what youve said (didnt read all of it too long) you were doing better than me anyway, I wasnt given a cent towards college, had to hand up half of every cent I earned while under their roof, used to have to photocopy entire books in college because Id no money to buy them, and had to buy clothes in VdeP shops because Id no money to buy them elsewhere!

Consider yourself lucky that you were able to get an education to masters level, didnt have to go hungry to do so, have a nice partner and baby to focus your love on and I think it would be wonderful if you helped to provide for your childs education - but remember something, its very hard to stand on your own two feet when you are being propped up by someone else and despite your resentment of how your parents treated you, you are obviously resourceful and have made a success of yourself. Perhaps it was an important lesson to knock the sense of entitlement out of you?

ViveLaVie

I think it's fair enough that your parents asked for rent, in line with your earnings, when you had a job.

I think though, considering they were well off, that they could have paid your registration fees at the very least. I think education is very important and if it were me I would prioritise getting my children through college, if I could afford to do so.

Nevertheless, I think you learned the value of education through hard work and getting through college yourself. Perhaps your parents wanted to teach you that.

At the end of the day, your parents' money is your parents' money, and not yours to do with as you see fit. If they wish to buy lottery tickets every week they are entitled to do so with the money they earned.

The fact is that you had jobs and earned money yourself and therefore were in a position to put yourself through college.

If you had not been earning and your parents had a lot of money I would see no problem in asking them and expecting them to help. I think they should have contributed more with your brother's further education because he couldn't get work and your parents were in a position to help out.

I think it's your responsibility to kit yourself out with a suit for an interview IF you are earning. I also think since you were struggling a bit in Dublin that your parents could have taken the edge off and given you some money, which you could then have paid back.

It sounds like your parents saw third level education as your responsibility. I agree to an extent but I think if someone is trying hard and working a part-time job that contributes to the household in the form of rent and to college in the form of some fees and books that they deserve a bit of help, if possible.

So all in all I don't think your parents are overly stingy but I think they could have eased up a small bit, particularly on your brother.

Agent J

Answering the OP question

No.

Could they have helped out a bit more? Possibly

Should they? That's up to themselves.

They got you to 18 fed, watered & in a positon to go further. That's a lot more than a lot of people do.

You might feel bitter about this but is it really something which should bother you at this point of your life? i don't mean to be dismissive but it doesnt seem like it's relevant anymore. Chalk it down to experience & do things different with your kids.

Lollipops23

woodchuck wrote: »

The only 2 things that stood out from your post were:
1. Your parents not visiting you in London (but would have nothing to do with stinginess imo)
2. You mother running up a bill on your credit card.

+1

I completely agree withe the above. OP my parents thankfully paid my college fees etc, but I worked in a shop throughout college on the weekend and on holidays. This paid for the extras throughout the year- books/equipment, clothes, events etc.

It always amazes me the amount of my mates whose folks bankrolled the entire thing- down to drinking money. If I didn't have the money, I simply didn't go out.

During the summer, when I was working full time, I was ALWAYS expected to pay rent.And why not?? It was a fixed amount, and as soon as I was earning a wage post-college I upped the amount voluntarily. Because I showed willing, when I offered again to up it when my wage increased, I was shot down immediately. Perhaps your parents were fed up bating it out of you every time?

It does perplex me that they don't visit you and your mam ran up a huuuge bill. Are they perhaps in financial trouble nowadays? Maybe they've kept it from you?

To be honest they don't sound stingy, but IMO they also sound like they're not particularly nice people.

tinkerbell

OP, no your parents are not stingey. They provided for you up to the age of 18. What makes you think that they should continue to pay for you once you are an adult? You're old enough then to contribute to the household. There comes a time in your life when you need to just grow up and be responsible for your own life, not expect your parents to continue to fund you.

It's actually really ignorant to be stating how much they earned in the family business, so what? That has nothing to do with you now! Just because that did well, you think they should give you free rent & board? I also think it was completely out of line for you to be telling your parents that they should have set up a college fund for you, that is way out of order. And telling them they can't play the Lotto. Oh and also criticisng them remortgaging the house. OP, you need to get off your high horse because your attitude stinks. You are not in charge of your parents. They can do what they want with their money, they don't have to answer to you.

However, your mother was COMPLETELY out of line running up a bill on your credit card. That is absolutely appalling behaviour. I would advise that you call up your mother and tell her you want the money in your bank account over the next few days, also ring the bank and tell them what happened. However, how can you not regularly check your credit cards? Is it not even a safety thing to regularly check your bank account details just to make sure everything is ok and you haven't had your card skimmed, etc?

I'll also say OP, your post was ridiculously long with way too much easily recognisable personal information.

we'llallhavetea

Well personally I think they ARE stingy bastards, but that's just me. Personally, I'll work night and day if I have to, just to cover my daughters educational costs when/if they come.

beks101

OP, I can understand why you are sore about this.

I know that I'm probably unusual in the sense that my parents covered all of my college expenses - reg fees, rent, day-to-day - and they wouldn't in a million years have DREAMED of charging me rent when I came home for a break the odd weekend or Christmas/summer. But I come from a very academic background where education was Number One, second to nothing - it's how my parents prospered in life and they wanted the same for their kids above all else. I'd be the same in that regard. I'd hope someday to have kids and if I have to beg, borrow or steal, I will make sure their education is provided for.

From my perspective, there's a general undertone to all of these incidents you've described and that's what I think troubles you. The casual way in which your parents demanded money off you and outright refused to give financial support during your time of need when it was clearly within their means. It comes across as cold, clinical, selfish and for their own financial gain...all the things that a parent should not be. When we think of our parents, we should think of unconditional love, protection, safety, loyalty...and yet by making these cash demands WITHOUT any explanation, your parents defied these attributes and changed the way you view them to the point where it has affected your relationship with them - perhaps as indicated now by the fact that your mother isn't making any effort with your son.

Money is a tricky issue, especially when it comes to families. I don't agree with this tough-love, out-on-your-own-at-18 approach than so many people seem to have. Especially when your parents have been your number one provider, financially and otherwise up to that point - sure, you need to learn financial independence from an early age, but it doesn't need to be inflicted upon you by turfing you out and demanding rent off you the second you walk back through the door just because you're now a legal adult. 18 is very much still a child, and I think given the fact that you had a good childhood, money was never something you had to worry about - your parents should have been responsible for their actions and explained to you why it was important to them that you contribute to rent and why they weren't going to cover certain college costs. They should have sat you down and told you, you're an adult now, you're in college, we love you and want the best for you but we'd like you to learn how to stand on your own two feet and foot your own bills, and that's why we're going to ask for a contribution. Not just the outright, we need 300 quid a month or you're out on your own.

That's appalling behaviour for a parent in my opinion. Not the rent request itself, but the manner in which it was conducted - like some cold, greedy landlord - as opposed to a loving parent who wants the best for their son. I can understand why the trust is gone from your side. I can understand why the relationship is frayed.

Add to that, the credit card issue and the fact that they refuse to make any effort with your son - you are on the path to disowning them here and your son is at risk of losing a set of grandparents. You need to ask yourself if that's what you really want.

If not, you're going to have to sit down with them and flesh all of this out. It's not too late to ask them why. In a non accusatory, objective fashion. Just sit down with them and tell them there's something that has sort of bothered you for years and it would help you to hear their perspective on things. You're a father now - maybe you'll agree with their reasoning. Or maybe it will still seem selfish and unnatural to you - but at least you'll be able to gain an understanding. Maybe their own parents turfed them out without any support. Maybe they never went to college. There's a reason in there somewhere.

The best of luck to you. I really hope you can salvage your relationship with them.

thefeatheredcat

Your parents were overly generous and had you have all the new toys when you were kids....and then made you force to stand on your own too feet. Maybe they realised they were spoiling you too much as children and their circumstances changed.

Why are you not proud that you were forced to make a success of yourself? Some people I know would be too terrified to even go to the dole office to sign on and get what they are entitled to without a parent to help them through, never mind go to the bank, sit down and apply for a loan and pay it back themselves, to go on and apply for overdrafts as for some people that can be really, really daunting to even have the confidence of deal with being told no, especially if in financial hardship. Why are you not proud of yourself for being financially independent from a young age and having your parents force you to stand on your own two feet and earn your own money?

Even if it's seen as tough love to force you to stand by yourself and do it all yourself, I can tell you they did the best for you. Why can you not see that? You are a success now because you worked for it, none of it was handed to you, money wasn't handed to you to make your life more comfortable and easier, you had to do it all the hard way and you have hopefully learnt a lot in the process about how to go about things, even helping your brother with the grant form, for example. In a way I would see that your accomplishments should inspire your siblings and your son to make it themselves rather than never being given the chance to stand on your own two feet.

Your mother has taught you a very, very, very valuable lesson about finances and credit cards - never ever give your ATM pin number, your account details or credit cards to anyone because there is always going to be someone who will take advantage of it even without meaning to. At least it was someone you know and not someone who stole your card or skimmed it. But that is an incredible lesson. I'm sure you won't be so happy to give away your credit card that is your responsibility to anyone ever again. And in saying that, you probably won't be likely to make the same financial mistakes that your parents have in how you are judging them with having re mortgaged the house for a holiday, car, redecorating... you with their experience and value of hindsight probably won't do that yourself now.

As for driving... neither me nor my siblings were given lessons by my parents. In honesty we never needed to learn to drive as teens or in the 20s because where we all lived we were close to bus routes and public transport and anyway we wouldn't have been able to afford a car on the road anyway and trust me I'm very happy that I don't have the burden of a car to insure, tax, have NCT and pay for maintenance, breakdown and oh petrol for right now. In saying that we have been all learning to do that now at our own pace, as part of ongoing personal life achievements, at least down through the years the money that could have gone on cars, even with getting brand new cars and being locked into unending financial agreements on weekly repayments that cost more than the car itself have been funnelled into other aspects of life.

You should be really proud of yourself and what you have accomplished and realised that you are who you are, the way you are because of how you have been raised, you are able to fend for yourself, sort yourself out in difficulty without having to be out there with the begging bowl to your parents unnecessarily and being allowed to muddle on and solve the problem yourself rather than having an over bearing parent that will swoop in at the first sign of a problem and bail you out. You have been given an incredible learning experience that will stand to you and you will pass on and live by. Appreciate what you have, what your parents have done for yourself and what you have done for yourself.

Consider this, had your parents continued with spoiling you with new toys and generous gifts and money well into your young adult years, who would you be now? Would you be half as proud? Would you even like who you might otherwise have turned out to be?

Esoteric_

Tbh I think your parents were exceedingly generous towards you.

Stavro Mueller

There is so much information in your post that it takes a lot of effort to wrap one's head around the whole story. The one incident that I missed because of the overload was the incident with your mother using your credit card without your permission and fecking up your credit record. I don't think it's a case of your parents being stingy in the past, it's one of them not being very nice people. What sort of parent does a thing like that to their kids?

sam34

i rarely post here anymore, but i felt obliged to when i read your post and saw the sense of entitlement and self-pity therein.

soarlikeaneagle wrote: »

Basically when myself and my younger brother and sister were children we had an excellent childhood, we weren’t taken to Disneyland or anything like that but always had the latest toys, me and my brother had latest computer games, mountain bikes etc, and we went to seaside in the summer

you were very lucky. lots of families couldn't/can't afford that.

soarlikeaneagle wrote: »

When I went away to college when I was 18, even the very first day was beset with the parents refusing to help. I had been working late the evening before and needed to get to college for the introduction day the next morning. The earliest bus was too late so I needed a lift from the parents. The mother was in hospital recovering from appendicitis and so I asked the father who said no because he needed to get the brother and sister to school. I asked him could he drive me early in the morning, 1 hour 45 minutes each way but he refused saying he would be too tired. I tried to suggest getting alternative arrangement for the brother and sister going to school (it’s a 15/20 minute drive) but he refused. As a result, I missed the induction morning but thankfully managed to get shown around the college and introduced to some of my classmates.

hang on a sec. your mother was in hospital, so your father was looking after you and the younger children. if he had to drop you to college early in the morning to be back in time to drop the younger ones to school for 9, by your figures he'd have had to leave home at 5.15am at the latest - 1hr 45 there, 1hr 45 back and 15 mins to school. and you think his refusal was unreasonable?? plus, given that your mother was in hospital, who'd have looked after the young children while he was chauffeuring you? the solution - that you -an adult- make your own way there and suck up being a little late, was the most reasonable option.

soarlikeaneagle wrote: »

I always had to keep a close eye on the expenses, as most students do!

yes, most, if not all students do. get over it. it's student life.

soarlikeaneagle wrote: »

I was making very good money, over 700 euro a week take home.. When I had this job however, my parents demanded that I give them 150 euro a week rent. This included food and bills, but I still think it was a bit steep asking for that much money.

you had a summer job paying almost 3k a month into your hand, and you object to paying 600 a month to cover rent/bills/food? welcome to the real world where adults have responsibilities.

soarlikeaneagle wrote: »

Anyway, over the course of that summer I gave my parents over 3,500 euro (I owed them some money because they had loaned me some money before the summer).

ok, so some of the 3.5k was repayment of a loan.

soarlikeaneagle wrote: »

Anyway I later found out that that year, when I had been working on the construction site and given my parents 3.5 k in rent, my father’s business had done quite well (he has his own garage for fixing cars) that year and the year beforehand. My parents net income for that year, so after tax and all deductions, was 85,000 euro. Their mortgage was 1,000 euro a month. And then I paid them the 3.5k on top of that.

so, as above, some of that was a loan repayment, it wasn't all 3.5k rent.

and, your parents income is not your concern. it's their income and you have no right to it.

soarlikeaneagle wrote: »

I was making 200 euro a week and parents charged me 50 euro per week for rent.

so, your income dropped and they dropped the rent. good luck finding a private landlord who'd do that.

soarlikeaneagle wrote: »

Now I know a lot of parents, especially fathers will take pride in bringing their son to get their first suit and buying them a nice one, but not in my case, I had to pay for it myself.

wtf? maybe in Maeve Binchy's 1950s Ireland maybe.

soarlikeaneagle wrote: »

I again managed to get a job at the same pub with more hours this time so I was making 300 euro a week. I also started paying back the education loan I got, so was paying 30 euro a week on that. My parents then demanded 100 euro a week and told me that they wouldn’t hesitate to throw me out onto the street if they didn’t get it. I tried to explain to them that my goal was to save a little money and eventually move to Dublin to get a good job in my field, and it was necessary to get a few quid in the bank. They said they didn’t care, and as long as I was at home I had to pay up. They told me calmly that if the money wasn’t received by a certain day, then they would pack my stuff in a suitcase and leave it on the doorstep. We eventually managed to agree on 70 euro a week.

again, welcome to the real world. people have debts to pay and they can't expect others to subsidise them. you chose to take a loan to further your education - that comes with responsibilities and sacrifices.

soarlikeaneagle wrote: »

The parents then gave me a gift of 100 euro to say congratulations for getting the internship, and I left for Dublin with 500 euro to my name. It cost me over 1,000 euro for first months rent and deposit, and then other expenses came. On top of that I wouldn’t receive my internship wage (minimum wage) until after the first month. Thankfully I managed to get an overdraft with the bank and that kept me ticking over. Anyway after living on my overdraft and credit card for a while it eventually caught up with me, and I literally couldn’t afford to pay rent. I was constantly playing catch up you see, and the loan repayments while on minimum wage didn’t help. I asked the parents for money and in fairness to them, they transferred 1,000 euro into my account which really helped me.

so, when you were on the breadline, they came up trumps.

fair play to them.

did you ever pay back that 1k?

soarlikeaneagle wrote: »

I was very grateful for this, but then thinking back on it in hindsight, I had paid my parents over 6,000 euro in total rent over the space of 3 summers on and off for an uncomfortable room in a basic house. If they hadn’t charged me rent then I would have been in a much more comfortable position moving to Dublin as I would have had that money saved up.

total rent? again, wasn't some of this a loan repayment?

and if they hadn't allowed you to rent at reasonable rates, you'd have had even less money after paying private rented accommodation plus all utilities and food.

soarlikeaneagle wrote: »

The parents were willing to buy him a cheap notebook a few years and gave him the money. His friends were going on holiday however and he choose to spend the money on that which was a bit silly but that’s youth. Anyway, the parents said well that’s your choice, we’re not going to pay for both your holiday and computer.

very valuable lesson for him. if they'd gone ahead and bought him a computer after he pissed away the money, what would he have learned? he'd have learned to absolve himself of responsibility and that mammy and daddy will bail him out. but that ain't real life.

soarlikeaneagle wrote: »

I also realised that they were spending approximately 20 euro a week on the lotto, every week. I thought this was a ridiculous amount to gamble every week on something in which the odds are stacked against you. I added it up and worked out that if they put the same amount of money into some kind of an savings/investment account they would have been able to provide for me and my brother for college over all the years. Again, they told me it was none of our business.

While I thought the Lotto thing was bad, I then discovered when trying to help my brother with his grant application that the parents had re-mortgaged the family home while I was in college. They released over 100k of equity and then pissed it away on a new car, holiday, getting the house re-decorated and the rest in the pub over the space of a few years.

they are entitled to do that. its their income and their house, their mortgage.

soarlikeaneagle wrote: »

In addition to this, they never taught me or my brother how to drive when we got to our late teens/early 20s. This actually affected 1 job interview that I went to as the location was quite remote and they asked me if I had a car as it would make it much easier. This resulted in me learning (at considerable expense from instructor) in Dublin while I was working full-time and looking after the baby.

seriously? i know of nobody who was taught to drive by their parents. i, all my family and all my friends learned to drive by paying for lessons with qualified instructors. it's the sensible way to do it.

soarlikeaneagle wrote: »

The bank were ringing to tell me there was a 3, 000 euro bill that hadn’t had any payments in ages. I was livid with the mother

your mother was out of order to run up debt on your card. but - why the hell were you not keeping an eye on it yourself?

you should have been because...

soarlikeaneagle wrote: »

This seriously affected my credit rating (I checked it out) and it may stop me and my girlfriend getting a mortgage here in London which is our intention.

in summary OP, i do not think your parents were stingy, far from it.


you need to grow up and stop holding such resentment towards them when they in fact were quite generous to you as an adult.

Big Bag of Chips

From the amount I read (I thought I got half way through, but when I went to skip to the end, I realised I was only about a fifth of the way through!) your parents aren't necessarily being stingy. They brought you to adulthood and had obviously decided that at 18 you were going to become responsible for yourself.

Now, maybe they should have told you this (maybe they did?) But everything else after that is what most young adults have to put up with at the start of their working life. Anyone who moves into rented accomodation has to pay a months rent and a deposit. Anyone who starts a job (where the pay is monthly) has to work a month before they get paid.

You are not being singled out here, thousands of people have to do what you've just described.

I think your biggest problem is you grew up in a comfortable home where you never wanted for anything... And suddenly you are out in the big bag world of adulthood, and you are finding that things aren't actually that handy "in real life".

And I have a bit of bad news for you.. now that you are working, and renting etc.. its going to be a long time before you're 'rich'. Your parents are 30 years ahead of you.. that is why they are comfortable. You've had a privileged upbringing, and are not used to being stuck for cash... Get used to it! I think you'll be late 20s, early 30s before you've built up any sort of comfortable cushion of savings!

And when you are a parent, you will appreciate the lessons your parents have thought you.

Roisy7

Op I couldn't read all your post it was awfully long... I will say this tho, I came from a background where I couldn't be bailed out by my parents, they couldn't afford it.
I had to work all thru college as did most of my close friends. Let's just say this- it becomes very very apparent by third year or so whose bankrolled by mammy and daddy and whose not.
I knew people whose parents bought them cars, paid for accom, gave them generous living expenses, even sent them up with dinners for the week on a Sunday evening.
These parents did their kids no favours, a lot were immature and had no clue what to do in the real world.
Growing up is meant to be tough. We all wish we were little kids again sometimes, but that's not the way of the world. We have to learn to stand on our own two feet...
So I would say grow up and lose the chip on your shoulder OP HOWEVER two things rang bells with me. First is the issue with your mother and the credit card. That's completely unacceptable behaviour from anyone let alone a parent.
The second is the "we'll throw you out of the house" talk. I think threatening a child that (unless it is a last resort) is also unacceptable. So I think you need to talk to your parents, not about money (cos I think they did you a favour there) but your relationship with each other and possible lack of respect between ye.
Sorry for grammar/typos etc, on phone!

happyfish

More than that your parents were stingy OP, it seems as though they really don't value education. I'm in college at the moment and I'm lucky that my parents have been great , really generous and wouldn't let me pay for anything college related but they went to college themselves and their parents were the same way. If your parents didn't go to college and did well anyway, they might just not see it as important and would expect you to stand on your own 2 feet, like they did at that age.

I don't know anyone whose parents charged them for rent during the summer, especially not anyone whose parents were making such good money. Then again I don't know anyone who earned €700 a week in the summer , so they probably saw you an adult who should contribute in a way that a lot of students parents don't see them.

Either way though, I don't think this is about money. You seem very bitter. When I said earlier that my parents are generous about college, I don't just mean financially, they've been so supportive as well, and it seems like yours weren't at all. They don't come across as very nice people either, and whether they were generous or not isn't the issue. It seems like your relationship with them wasn't great and I think if you had posted this without bringing the money into it, you would've got a different reaction. Your post is so bogged down with tiny details that it's difficult to understand and make sense of anything. I read it twice before I fully got everything, which is why this may come across as a little disjointed.

LegacyUser

Are you sure your parents don't have any shopping addictions, or gambling problems, or financial secrets? If they were so comfortable earning 80,000 a year, then why the need to re-mortgage the house? Also if they were so financially comfortable, then why would your mum have ran up such a huge debt on your card, and why would she have had a much lower credit limit than you to begin with?

Have they only stopped coming to visit your child since this whole credit card thing emerged or before that? They might be avoiding answering difficult questions about it.

I don't think your parents were overly stingy as in they did help you when it was really needed, but I would say that they do sound like very cold people, and not traditional warm and loving parents. When they helped you or your brother it seems it was always extremely begrudgingly, and something they could throw back in your face or constantly remind you about, even though you were quite willingly paying it all back. Not really an unconditional love way of behaving if you ask me.

Don't get me wrong, I don't think kids should be mollycoddled, and some of your expectations seem silly to me like expecting a new suit and driving lessons. From the ages of 12-18 I worked 6 days a week full time in a restaurant during the summer, and at the weekend during school. Always paid for all my own clothes, makeup, school things, and socialising with friends. I never however was allowed to pay for any rent, food, or bills, and often mum would save just to buy me treats as surprises. Got no financial help from parents for college as my father passed away when I was 12, and mum had very little money. Got 2 large student loans which I am still paying off. When I dropped out of my uni course after second year I worked for another two years after in the county I moved to, when this jobs hours were hugely cut I was welcomed back home and this time I had no job. Mum still refused to take cash of me whilst I was getting back on my feet, so I would do other gestures like take her for meals, cook dinners, buy shopping, tidy house and get her little gifts. I went back to a closer college and continued to live at home rent free, I will be starting second year in September. I had nothing but full support from mum, and knew that I always had a home that I was welcome and loved in, but at the same time was never spoilt rotten. Sorry for rambling, she passed away a few months ago so some stuff just came flowing, feel lonely talking about her cos I miss her so much and just noticing the contrast in stories.

I think it is good that you got help from parents whenever it was really badly needed, but I don't think it's good that they gave that help so begrudgingly. I think 150 euro a week rent on your summer holidays was a very high rent to be asking despite what you were earning.(I'm assuming this figure just counts for rent and your debt and that you had food and bills to pay on top of that 150??) I also think the threat of throwing you out on the street if you didn't pay it was very cold.

Don't really know what advice to offer you, except maybe sit down and talk about the credit card debt with them, and get some good explanations about why they are ignoring your child. I don't know if it's right to call them stingy, because I'm sure they do love you very much but are maybe not just very warm people, and they probably won't even see where the problem is if you bring it up. For everyone's sake though especially your child, try your best to mend this relationship, but of course only if they are willing to work things out too. Best of luck.

JoJoK

Hi OP, I don't post much but am compelled to comment.. This is long but please bear with me.

To answer your question, IMO your parents are not stingy. In fact I think they did a great job, fulfilled their responsibilities and then some. They have given you and your siblings excellent work ethics and looked after you to adulthood so well that you are in positions where you were savvy enough for third level + education. They put you up when you were earning enough to live independently and have been helpful to you. They don't seem cold to me, although I realise others might disagree with that.

They were young starting a family and I'm guessing they worked very hard to get to where they are now, with possibly little or no handouts from their own parents, yet your mum's indebted to you for helping her mother.

Although I don't think you ought to be poking your nose into your parents finances (other than to get the credit card debt paid and the card destroyed, obviously), one real possibility you might consider as someone who is good with accounts, is that many, many small business owners are supplementing their staff 'off the books' and the only way they can do this is through over declaring their own income. I am aware of situations where employers are backed into corners with staff being on welfare part time or even full time, and the employers having to pay them out of their own pockets to keep things going 'until things improve' and then not being able to let them go for fear of being anonymously reported to social welfare! I'm not condoning this practice and maybe your parents is one of the select few small businesses in the country not adversely affected by the recession, but it's the reality of many an SME here for the last several years and something you might consider. Even if they are not supplementing staff costs it's a strong possibility that if they are as intent on keeping up with the Jones's as you say, that they are supplementing other areas of the business to ensure it's looking healthy. Again, not unusual in SMEs at present, particularly if retirement and selling on are on the agenda in the next ten years or so.

But that's a digression, to get back to your own story, sincerely, it seems to me that what your parents are getting in return for all they have done for you and your siblings is at least one spoilt offspring who judges them and finds their efforts extremely lacking. A son who took their generosity and whinged that their friends were getting more!

I wouldn't fancy visiting someone who was clearly so bitter and resentful, whether they were my child or not.

Perhaps you would consider these things and start by being a good example to your child by asking your parents if there's anything you can do to help them (accounts come to mind), as your mother is doing for her mother in other ways. You might be surprised at how they'd open up if they get a glimmer of an impression that you are considering them as people, human beings with all of the emotions, insecurities and stresses that go along with being human, instead of beings whose sole purpose is about them continuing to serve their adult offspring and live frugal lives.

Apologies if this sounds harsh but I really think you need to build a bridge and get over it in terms of the other stuff, and hope that your own offspring don't turn out to be so resentful and disregarding of your efforts as a parent. It's early days yet and unfortunately the best of intentions get waylaid when the reality of life sets in.

You seem like a hardworking chap with quite a large chip on his shoulder. The sooner you lose that and stop judging your parents, the sooner you'll begin to appreciate your privileged upbringing in rural Ireland, with the best of toys, food in your belly and all of the accouterments you needed to set you up for an equally privileged life as an educated adult.

They'll be a long time dead so I hope you get to do this soon.

Wishing you continued success and happiness in your life and with your partner and child.

Neyite

I'm on the fence OP - on one hand, I think your parents come across as not putting much value on education, as they seemed to be uninterested in how your studies went. Thats hard, but its also testament to your own work ethic that you stuck at it and succeeded - and accountancy? Thats a tough field of study with all the Professional Exams, so well done.

There are some things that I agree with your parents with - like not paying for your driving lessons, or your first suit, or your brothers computer after he pissed away the money. I bought my own clothes that I needed from the age of 14, and funded my own driving lessons, and my own car.

Plus, you were the eldest, there were other children to support in the years to come. They may have earned 80k in one particular year but money might have been tight for years before that or maybe they saw their pension plan get practically wiped out like a lot of people did a few years ago, creating a future financial insecurity for them.

But there are some things that I dont agree with - your mother's abuse of your credit card (which I think is disgraceful tbh), and I think they could have been more supportive of your studies - we always worked during college but our parents insisted that in the final year they would fund it all as they wanted us to concentrate on the final exams. Outside of that, we only got basic living expenses- so rent and some food, but not our petrol, phone credit, or drinking money.

But, at the end of the day, we all look at our upbringing at some point and see where our parents made decisions that we will do differently when the time comes. And you will. I would suggest that you take pride in effectively being a self sufficient adult from the age of 18, there are lots out there in their twenties and even thirties that are still being mollycoddled.

You feel aggrieved at incidents from a long time ago, where you feel they didnt support you when you needed it, and it seems to have damaged your relationship with them. Your parents may regret that when they get elderly and infirm and need support themselves.

Beruthiel

soarlikeaneagle wrote: »

Basically when myself and my younger brother and sister were children we had an excellent childhood, we weren’t taken to Disneyland or anything like that but always had the latest toys, me and my brother had latest computer games, mountain bikes etc, and we went to seaside in the summer.

So, privileged to the point that over 95% of the planet can only dream of.

Basically I’m talking about me and my brother’s education and trying to get a good job. It seems to me like the parents basically tried to make things much harder for me and my brother and put up extra obstacles to our success, both financially and otherwise.

I see that as good parenting. Teaching you to accept responsibility and learn to stand on your own two feet.

When I went away to college when I was 18, even the very first day was beset with the parents refusing to help. I had been working late the evening before and needed to get to college for the introduction day the next morning. The earliest bus was too late so I needed a lift from the parents. The mother was in hospital recovering from appendicitis and so I asked the father who said no because he needed to get the brother and sister to school. I asked him could he drive me early in the morning, 1 hour 45 minutes each way but he refused saying he would be too tired. I tried to suggest getting alternative arrangement for the brother and sister going to school (it’s a 15/20 minute drive) but he refused. As a result, I missed the induction morning but thankfully managed to get shown around the college and introduced to some of my classmates.

All I'm seeing from the above is one big whinge. As an adult, you are in total charge of yourself and how you run your life.
The above is a first world problem.
Instead of continuing to rely on your father, you should have been proactive in organizing a way to get there under your own steam.

In terms of finances, the parents gave me 1,000 euro when I started 1st year for which I was very grateful. That combined some other money from grandparents and the money I had saved up from working in the supermarket all summer beforehand meant I was fine for money. But the years after 1st year in college I didn’t have as much money, the parents gave me 25 euro a week which covered the cost of my return bus fare home each weekend and that was it. I still managed to get by by working full time in the summers and part time at weekends, but I always had to keep a close eye on the expenses, as most students do!

I'm not sure of the point you are trying to make there?
Were you expecting your parents to fork out more money?
Considering you are an adult and capable of making your own money, I'm not seeing the problem.
The fact that you had to put yourself through college is nothing new. Millions do it every year. They appreciate the fact that they actually have the opportunity to attend a college and work hard to do their best.
An excellent grounding for the rest of your adult life,

When I had this job however, my parents demanded that I give them 150 euro a week rent. This included food and bills, but I still think it was a bit steep asking for that much money.

I would have done the exact same thing.
In fact, I did.
When my daughter started working she was charged rent.
You don't get to coast through life for free. You pay your way.
Do you think for one second that you would have lived anywhere else in Ireland for 150 per week all in?

Anyway, over the course of that summer I gave my parents over 3,500 euro (I owed them some money because they had loaned me some money before the summer).

So you were paying back your debt.

My parents net income for that year, so after tax and all deductions, was 85,000 euro. Their mortgage was 1,000 euro a month. And then I paid them the 3.5k on top of that.

And?

I was making 200 euro a week and parents charged me 50 euro per week for rent.

Very fair of them.

Now I know a lot of parents, especially fathers will take pride in bringing their son to get their first suit and buying them a nice one

Really?
I never head of that.

My parents then demanded 100 euro a week and told me that they wouldn’t hesitate to throw me out onto the street if they didn’t get it.

A grown man is expected to pay his way. Again, I'm not seeing a problem.

Then my father gave me some advice, he said I should go down to Penney’s and get myself a nice cheap suit. This left me gobsmacked.

Why?
Pennys not good enough for you?
Have you any idea how that makes you come across?

I asked the parents for money and in fairness to them, they transferred 1,000 euro into my account which really helped me.

When your back was really and truly to the wall, your parents dug you out of a hole.
I presume you have paid that back?
If not, might I suggest you do.

I had paid my parents over 6,000 euro in total rent over the space of 3 summers on and off for an uncomfortable room in a basic house.

And they spent that money on food, electricity, a roof over your head.

If they hadn’t charged me rent then I would have been in a much more comfortable position moving to Dublin as I would have had that money saved up. I argued with them at the time and told them they were being unfair charging me so much rent at a difficult period in my life/education. They just laughed and said I was being completely unrealistic and that every young person who has any income pays keep at home regardless of their circumstances.

Totally agree with your parents here.

I gave them over 10 examples of friends which they knew, including their parents, and told them they weren’t paying rent. I also gave them examples of people they knew whose parents were not only not charging them rent but actually giving them money for college fees, car insurance, travel etc.

That's no way to bring a child up imo.
They learn nothing of the value of a euro or how to take care of themselves.

That is not the case at all, they are (or at least were at the time) quite young, having me, the eldest of 3 kids at the age of 24. They are also in general extremely generous with money to other people, buying nice gifts for other family members and friends and being well-known for buying rounds of drinks in the pub for everyone, including friends of friends.

They worked hard their whole lives to bring up 3 children and run a house. They have gotten to an age where they can now treat themselves as they please.
Why shouldn't they? You will do the exact same thing when you get to their age and you know what? You will appreciate it greatly because you have worked hard to get there.
Your parents are truly fantastic and you have been blessed beyond belief.

rather than actually focusing on the welfare of your children.

LOL
Lets list all of the ways your parents ignored the welfare of their children:

Feed them.
Watered them.
Put clothes on their back.
Put a roof over their heads.
Cared enough to send them to school.
Provided them with all the toys they could hope for.
Taught them how to take care of themselves and thus prepared them for the big, bad world.

Myself and my girlfriend have now been living here in London for the last 8 months. Despite this, and numerous invitations, the parents have shown no interest in coming over to see us.

What's the big deal?
You can just as easily go visit them.

Regarding my brother, I think they have also been quite bad with helping him out.

In other words, teaching him the same life lessons and how to survive as an adult.

his intention was clearly to avoid paying as much as he could towards his kids college education.

Or, to teach their child the value of a euro and to work for their own education.

I pointed out to the parents at a later date that they should have had a college fund set aside for each of us

I have no idea where you get this idea from?
The sense of entitlement coming from the above comment is quite shocking.
Your parents are under no obligation what so ever to put you through college.
As an adult, that is entirely your responsibility.
If my child had turned around and said such a thing to me, I would have been utterly disappointed. I would have truly felt that I had failed as a parent and taught her nothing.


You know what I find most upsetting with the whole pettiness of your OP? It's the fact you still don't get it.
Here you are, a grown man with his own child. And yet, you don't come across as someone older than 17.
You still haven't learned the lessons your parents tried and worked hard to teach you.
You failed to get it.

I feel sad for your parents.
I admire them greatly.
If this country had more parents like them, we would be a much better off.

You were brought up by two people who truly loved you, and showed that by doing their very best to bring you up as a strong, responsible man.
I really do hope that one day you will look back and get that.

The Big Red Button

I'm just going to italicise your post in my reply, as a multiquoting post would take forever!

Hello peeps,
I was just reading that thread in After Hours “stingiest thing you’ve ever seen” (excellent thread and it got me thinking about my parents’ stinginess. I thought, and still continue to think that my parents were incredibly stingey when I was a student, but I would like to get other peoples’ views and see if I’m right or wrong.

Basically when myself and my younger brother and sister were children we had an excellent childhood, we weren’t taken to Disneyland or anything like that but always had the latest toys, me and my brother had latest computer games, mountain bikes etc, and we went to seaside in the summer. I can’t fault my parents’ generosity then but when we got a bit older I think they turned quite stingey. Basically I’m talking about me and my brother’s education and trying to get a good job. It seems to me like the parents basically tried to make things much harder for me and my brother and put up extra obstacles to our success, both financially and otherwise.

When I went away to college when I was 18, even the very first day was beset with the parents refusing to help. I had been working late the evening before and needed to get to college for the introduction day the next morning. The earliest bus was too late so I needed a lift from the parents. The mother was in hospital recovering from appendicitis and so I asked the father who said no because he needed to get the brother and sister to school. I asked him could he drive me early in the morning, 1 hour 45 minutes each way but he refused saying he would be too tired. I tried to suggest getting alternative arrangement for the brother and sister going to school (it’s a 15/20 minute drive) but he refused. As a result, I missed the induction morning but thankfully managed to get shown around the college and introduced to some of my classmates.
Your mother was in hospital with appendicitis!! No wonder your father was tired and stressed and unwilling to make a 3.5 hour round trip at crazy-o-clock in the morning.

He had a responsibility to get your younger siblings to school, but as for an adult attending college? It should always be their own responsibility, in my opinion, and especially when the college was so far away. Surely you knew the situation at least a day or two in advance - couldn't you have gotten a bus the day before, and stayed with someone? In any case, it was only an induction day - it's not like you were missing lectures or anything.

In my opinion, forget about that incident - even if your mother hadn't been ill, I still don't think you had any right to expect your parents to go so far out of their way.

In terms of finances, the parents gave me 1,000 euro when I started 1st year for which I was very grateful. That combined some other money from grandparents and the money I had saved up from working in the supermarket all summer beforehand meant I was fine for money. But the years after 1st year in college I didn’t have as much money, the parents gave me 25 euro a week which covered the cost of my return bus fare home each weekend and that was it. I still managed to get by by working full time in the summers and part time at weekends, but I always had to keep a close eye on the expenses, as most students do!

That was decent of your parents. Like you said, yeah, most students do struggle with finances. Any extra help from family will obviously help a lot.

One little point - you say your parents covered the cost of your bus home each weekend - did they insist that you use the €25 for this? If not, would you not have considered staying at college for most weekends, and having an extra €25 per week? Anyways I guess that's irrelevant now.

After third year in college I got a pretty good summer job working on a building site. Thanks to the Celtic tiger economy at the time (tongue in cheek!) I was making very good money, over 700 euro a week take home. I didn’t socialise or party much at all, partly because I was working so many long hours, and so put away almost all of my money for the next college year, meaning I wouldn’t have to work and could concentrate just on my studies. When I had this job however, my parents demanded that I give them 150 euro a week rent. This included food and bills, but I still think it was a bit steep asking for that much money. Obviously 700 euro is a lot of money to be getting every week but it wasn’t as if I was living the high life, I was putting all of that money away for my education, and they knew this. Anyway, over the course of that summer I gave my parents over 3,500 euro (I owed them some money because they had loaned me some money before the summer).

OK well firstly, if some of the €3,500 was money that you'd borrowed off them, it's not really fair to say that you "gave" them €3,500.

You seem to be really focussing on what you perceive to be their "stingeyness", but it seems that they were still there to give you a dig-out when you really needed it. Isn't it possible that they were fore-seeing that you'd end up needing future dig-outs, and that they were putting aside your "rent" money for this? I know that's what my own parents have always done - they'd never charge us "rent" if we had no income, but if we were home and working for the summer, they'd insist on taking a decent chunk of our wage. And we never minded or resented it, because we all knew very well that our parents would never see us go hungry and would always help us out when we really needed it.

Anyway I later found out that that year, when I had been working on the construction site and given my parents 3.5 k in rent, my father’s business had done quite well (he has his own garage for fixing cars) that year and the year beforehand. My parents net income for that year, so after tax and all deductions, was 85,000 euro. Their mortgage was 1,000 euro a month. And then I paid them the 3.5k on top of that. You were an adult at this stage, and your parents are also adults. Their other income was really nothing to do with you. They are entitled to do with their earnings as they wish.

Again, you say €3.5K - but some of that was loan repayments, no? Do you really think that you shouldn't have had to repay a loan, and that you should have been able to live there rent-free, just because their business was doing well? Surely that's nothing to do with you! And, if you really resented it so much, I think that you should have moved out and paid rent elsewhere!

That summer I also had to repeat 2 college exams, 2 mathematical based subjects as part of the accountancy course I was doing. I really struggled with these subjects and my parents knew this because I told them. Anyway I was studying at home for the repeats and trying to find enough time for study with work, I managed to get a few days off in a row just before the exams. I was studying intensely and getting a bit stressed but still managing. Then my mother informed me that my younger sister (then 16) was having a party in the house with her 16 year old friends and they would be drinking vodka. The parents were going away for the weekend you see. This was 2 days before my repeat exams. When I told her about my repeat exams, she said tough, that I wasn’t the only person in the house. After I nearly lost the plot, the mother agreed to tell the sister to have their party elsewhere but told me I was being selfish. Bear in mind that we live in west Cork so there wasn’t any public library I could go to study, and anyway I needed to study late at night also because there was so much to cover.

Your mother was absolutely dead right that you were being selfish. You were, as an adult, living under someone else's house and paying rent. Would you have been so outraged if you were in a house-share situation? The fact is that everyone you live with has their own lives, too, and can't always pander to your wants and needs.

The fact that it was an underage teenager's party, and that alcohol was involved, isn't really the issue here, is it? A similar issue could have arisen no matter where you lived, and you'd have just had to deal with it, like a grown-up.

I managed to pass my repeats thankfully, and finished my degree. I then spent that summer basically looking for work. I didn’t have a penny left after final year (spent all the money I had saved up from the building site) and got a part time job in a local pub. I was making 200 euro a week and parents charged me 50 euro per week for rent. Bear in mind that I was regularly travelling to Cork city and Dublin the odd time to apply for jobs, hand out CVs, attending a few interviews and all this expense came out of my pocket. It was also at this time that I needed to dust off the only suit I had for job interviews. I had bought the suit myself a year beforehand for college ball. Now I know a lot of parents, especially fathers will take pride in bringing their son to get their first suit and buying them a nice one, but not in my case, I had to pay for it myself. Anyway, when I took it out of its cover in the wardrobe I noticed the trousers were gone, turned out the mother had lost them in between moving my clothes around. She denied it at first but then accepted that it was her and apologised, neither her nor my father offered to buy me a new pair of trousers or a new suit however. I was left with no option but to wear a different pair of trousers to go with the suit jacket for interviews. They went ok together but didn’t match perfectly, and when you’re going for interviews the last thing you want is not to feel confident in what you’re wearing. Anyway, I didn’t manage to get any proper job that summer so I decided the best option was to go back for a masters.

The whole suit thing is ridiculous. And what is this, about a father bringing their son to get their first suit? I have three younger brothers, and the first time the eldest needed a suit (for his debs), he bought one with money from his summer job. This was ten years ago, and since then, that same suit has been swapped between all three - it's dubbed "the family suit", and it sufficed for all debs, job interviews, etc! Obviously as they got older and got jobs, they bought their own suits, but there wasn't a thing wrong with them using that same hand-me-down one until they got started earning their own wages. I honestly think your notion that a father should buy his grown son suitable interview clothing is completely made up in your head. Most grown men would be embarrassed by such a thing!

You were making €200 a week - €150 a week after rent. It's hard to believe you couldn't manage to put aside enough to afford a new trousers/suit, if you really needed it.

Not having a button, I brought the idea up with the parents of going back for a masters, they said good luck to you, but we won’t be giving you a penny. I thus took out a 7 ½ grand loan with the bank, which I was delighted and relieved to get for my Masters. I wasn’t eligible for a grant because of my father’s business doing well. Masters went grand and in hindsight it allowed me to get the job I have now. Anyway, after the masters I went back home for a brief period, as I had again literally no money having spent everything that year in college on living expenses. I again managed to get a job at the same pub with more hours this time so I was making 300 euro a week. I also started paying back the education loan I got, so was paying 30 euro a week on that. My parents then demanded 100 euro a week and told me that they wouldn’t hesitate to throw me out onto the street if they didn’t get it. I tried to explain to them that my goal was to save a little money and eventually move to Dublin to get a good job in my field, and it was necessary to get a few quid in the bank. They said they didn’t care, and as long as I was at home I had to pay up. They told me calmly that if the money wasn’t received by a certain day, then they would pack my stuff in a suitcase and leave it on the doorstep. We eventually managed to agree on 70 euro a week.

From the paragraph above, your parents seen like very reasonable people.

You were making €300 a week (€270 net of loan); I'm guessing €100 rent a week must have been reasonable for the area, or otherwise you'd just have rented a room locally? €70 seems very reasonable.

Do you think that, as an adult, it's acceptable for a person to arrive at their parents' home for weeks/months at a time and expect to stay there rent-free? While working full-time? At what point can parents enjoy their lives and their home as being their own?

After a while of living like this, I managed to secure an internship in a large accounting firm in Dublin. I was over the moon to get this, saw it as my opportunity to make it and my ticket to success. I was delighted and when I told my parents, they said congratulations and seemed genuinely very happy for me. They also realised that this was my big break and wished me the best of luck. Then my father gave me some advice, he said I should go down to Penney’s and get myself a nice cheap suit. This left me gobsmacked. After the earlier incident with my first suit, and this being my big chance, I thought they would insist on getting me a nice good quality suit and they pay for it. Instead, they recommended I get myself the cheapest suit and that I pay for it myself. Anyway I managed to get a decent suit on sale in Dunnes which didn’t look too bad at all.

To be fair, they'd reduced your weekly rent by €30 per week from what they'd wanted in the first place. Surely if you'd put this aside each week, you'd have had enough for a suit? Never mind the rest of the money you were earning (where did all of that go?!)

I'm guessing maybe your father's advice was tongue-in-cheek, if you'd made a big fuss over not getting bought your first suit. As I said already, I find it ridiculous that you'd expect such a thing to be bought for you.

The parents then gave me a gift of 100 euro to say congratulations for getting the internship, and I left for Dublin with 500 euro to my name. It cost me over 1,000 euro for first months rent and deposit, and then other expenses came. On top of that I wouldn’t receive my internship wage (minimum wage) until after the first month. Thankfully I managed to get an overdraft with the bank and that kept me ticking over. Anyway after living on my overdraft and credit card for a while it eventually caught up with me, and I literally couldn’t afford to pay rent. I was constantly playing catch up you see, and the loan repayments while on minimum wage didn’t help. I asked the parents for money and in fairness to them, they transferred 1,000 euro into my account which really helped me.

That was incredibly decent of them.

I was very grateful for this, but then thinking back on it in hindsight, I had paid my parents over 6,000 euro in total rent over the space of 3 summers on and off for an uncomfortable room in a basic house. If they hadn’t charged me rent then I would have been in a much more comfortable position moving to Dublin as I would have had that money saved up. I argued with them at the time and told them they were being unfair charging me so much rent at a difficult period in my life/education.

Wait what?

€6,000 in total rent, or €6,000 including paying off loans they'd given you?

You chose to rent from them rather than anyone else - if it didn't make financial sense at the time, well that was your own fault!

Can you be sure you'd have saved the money, or just spent it? Maybe they were planning ahead, and taking the money off you so that they'd have it there to give to you, when you needed it.

They just laughed and said I was being completely unrealistic and that every young person who has any income pays keep at home regardless of their circumstances. I gave them over 10 examples of friends which they knew, including their parents, and told them they weren’t paying rent. I also gave them examples of people they knew whose parents were not only not charging them rent but actually giving them money for college fees, car insurance, travel etc. They told me I was lying and wouldn’t accept what I was saying. I’ve brought up the issue several times since and they refuse to accept that they were wrong.

What other families do is nothing to do with your own family. It's wrong to say that you're entitled to certain handouts "because that's what John's parents give him."

Reading this you may get the impression my parents are really conservative, old fashioned types with traditional values.

Eh ... no, I don't see where I might have gotten that impression of them ...

That is not the case at all, they are (or at least were at the time) quite young, having me, the eldest of 3 kids at the age of 24. They are also in general extremely generous with money to other people, buying nice gifts for other family members and friends and being well-known for buying rounds of drinks in the pub for everyone, including friends of friends. They also go to concerts whenever they can. I think that they have that old Irish mentality of “keeping up with the Jones” and showing yourself to be generous in front of the neighbours rather than actually focusing on the welfare of your children.

Or ... maybe they're not "keeping up with the Jones'", maybe they're just nice?

It sounds like they took very good care of their children, while they were still children. But that they did their best to encourage independence once you reached adulthood.

Things have gone quite well since then thankfully. After doing the internship in the accounting firm I got a proper job with them, and have recently taken up a promotion in their London offices. Myself and my girlfriend have now been living here in London for the last 8 months. Despite this, and numerous invitations, the parents have shown no interest in coming over to see us. The main reason I wanted them to come was to see our boy who is now 2. He used to love when they visited when we were in Dublin and always loved their company. My mother has photos of him all over facebook but strangely will not come see us in Dublin, even during this summer when they had holidays. I get the impression that they don’t want to spend the money for the flights.

What gives you this impression?

Do they travel much in general? Many people don't like the hassle of travelling abroad in general.

Do you bring him home to see them often?

That’s my situation anyway. Regarding my brother, I think they have also been quite bad with helping him out. They paid his college fees for first year but made a song and dance about it, making him feel guilty and like a burden for them giving him the money. He wasn’t in a position to help himself as he couldn’t get part time work. So the parents gave him a lump sum for registration fees, etc. He has also informed me that anytime he has asked for ad hoc expenses such as course books, money for field trip with class etc, the parents make another big song and dance pointing out that they already gave him x amount for college. He also doesn’t have a laptop for his course which he could do with. I know it isn’t the end of the world but in this day and age, he could really do with 1 for typing his assignments. The parents were willing to buy him a cheap notebook a few years and gave him the money. His friends were going on holiday however and he choose to spend the money on that which was a bit silly but that’s youth. Anyway, the parents said well that’s your choice, we’re not going to pay for both your holiday and computer.

Your brother sounds very like you.

You and him seem to honestly believe it was reasonable for them to pay for both a holiday and a laptop? It was extraordinarily generous of them to offer to pay for either!

Very few college students actually need a laptop anyways.

As for your parents paying for books and field trips - has your brother been making a massive effort to find a job? If not, I can absolutely understand where they're coming from.

After his 1st year in college, I paid all of his registration fees and tried to give him something to live on, as by that stage I had got the decent job in Dublin.

Fair play to you. Not something I'd have been inclined to do myself, unless as a loan - he needs to learn to support himself.

The parents gave him something small on top of that and he was able to make his way. Thankfully he has landed on his feet since graduating and is now doing quite well and living in Cork city. After I gave him the money for 2nd year in college, I remembered a comment my father made to me when he was drunk and I was 12/13. I was very good at school at that age and already expressed an interest in going to college. The father then said completely out of blue, something along the lines of – “well you seem to be on the path to success, so when you get a good job, you can look after Steven (my brother) and pay his way for college, alright?”. They say a drunk man’s actions are a sober man’s thoughts, either way, his intention was clearly to avoid paying as much as he could towards his kids college education.

Oh come on.

You're not seriously placing any weight on a (fairly innocent) jokey drunken comment your father made when you were a kid?

It was your own choice to give your brother that money. No one made you do it.

I pointed out to the parents at a later date that they should have had a college fund set aside for each of us, which they told me was none of our business. I also realised that they were spending approximately 20 euro a week on the lotto, every week. I thought this was a ridiculous amount to gamble every week on something in which the odds are stacked against you. I added it up and worked out that if they put the same amount of money into some kind of an savings/investment account they would have been able to provide for me and my brother for college over all the years. Again, they told me it was none of our business.

Again, they are grown adults. They can flush €20 a week down the toilet, if they so wish, and it's none of your business. You have an incredibly entitled attitude, to think that their own personal spending money should be put towards an adult's education.

While I thought the Lotto thing was bad, I then discovered when trying to help my brother with his grant application that the parents had re-mortgaged the family home while I was in college. They released over 100k of equity and then pissed it away on a new car, holiday, getting the house re-decorated and the rest in the pub over the space of a few years.
See above. They were absolutely right to do as they wished with the money (and it doesn't sound like they pissed most of it away.)

In addition to this, they never taught me or my brother how to drive when we got to our late teens/early 20s. This actually affected 1 job interview that I went to as the location was quite remote and they asked me if I had a car as it would make it much easier. This resulted in me learning (at considerable expense from instructor) in Dublin while I was working full-time and looking after the baby. We had asked them to show us how to drive but they both just said they were too busy and it wasn’t important at that stage of our lives. Luckily, Steven (my brother) managed to get lessens off his friend, and then a friend’s relative who is a driving instructor at a reduced rate (again he had to pay for the lessons himself).

Oh for Christs sake. It sure as hell is not your parents' responsibility to teach you to drive - that you think it might be, is completely laughable.

Fast forward a couple of years then. Everything going grand, myself and my girlfriend have just had our first baby, and we’re still in that drunk with love new baby phase a few weeks after his birth. I then get a call out of the blue from the bank. I had given my credit card to my mother a few years beforehand, as the bank gave me a huge limit when I was a student (silly banks eh!) and my parents credit card had a much lower limit. The mother asked and I said no problem, here’s my card. The bank were ringing to tell me there was a 3, 000 euro bill that hadn’t had any payments in ages. I was livid with the mother, she came up with every excuse under the sun explaining her actions and even turned it around on me and made me out to be the bad one, saying that she used it to help out her mother (my grandmother) because she was going through a hard time, and if I cared about my grandmother I should understand. This seriously affected my credit rating (I checked it out) and it may stop me and my girlfriend getting a mortgage here in London which is our intention.

That's shit, to be fair. Has the balance been paid off since?

I find it very hard to understand that the bank never got in touch with you before it affected your credit rating? If the card was in your name? Were you not getting statements, and checking your balance?

Anyway, that’s a lot of examples (there’s probably more if I think about it) of my parents actions regarding me and my siblings education and career. The reason I posted it up is because I’m now a parent myself and my boy’s education is of such importance to me, I could never see myself doing what they did. I would like to get other peoples’ opinions on this, especially people who have been in similar situations either as students or parents themselves.

From everything you have written, I see one incident where your mother might have done wrong (by running up a credit card bill ... I still don't see how you weren't aware of this.) Even so, it seems it was done out of desparation rather than "stingeyness."

My opinion is that you need to grow up, and realise that, as an adult, you and your siblings are responsible for yourselves. And also, your parents are people too, and they have their own lives to lead - independent of you.

You have a child of your own now; in my opinion, you'd be doing him no favours by bringing him up with the same sense of entitlement that you have. "Tough love" is necessary at times to teach the importance of independence and self-sufficiency. It sounds like this is what your parents were doing; it's unfortunate that it seems you can't appreciate and respect what they've done for you.

fungun

So as you hit adulthood, your parents didnt give you all the money you needed and required rent.....this made things a bit more difficult than they could have been (but they did come up with money when you really needed it)

As a parent this sounds to me much more like 'teaching my child the value of money' than 'being stingy'

ash23

OP, your parents weren't stingy.
I was dropped to college 60 miles away, aged 16 and handed 20pounds and my first weeks rent was paid. I was on my own after that. I worked 2 full days and 3 late evenings a week. When I wanted to repeat a year in Uni because I made the wrong subject choices I had to get a loan to do so and ended up working 3 jobs to pay it. I had to drop out.
When I got pregnant at 19 my parents allowed me to move home. I was getting 160euro a week and paying 50e in rent, not including food and bills.
I didn't stay long and since then I have brought up my child with no financial support from my parents and rightly so. They could have been more help to me but they also taught me independence.
I think I would be like your parents. I would like to give more help than I got, but I would think independence, budgeting and learning the value of money is an extremely important trait to give a child. It helps them get somewhere in life.

QuiteInterestin

Pretty much +1 to what everyone else has said.

Just another point, you said your parents were 24 when you were born, so I'm guessing they spent their early 20's trying to put a roof over their heads and provide for their growing family, at a time when wages were alot lower, single income families were the norm and interest rates were higher. You can see how for them it must seem ridiculous that at the same age, you expected to be funded through college, able to live at home rent free, be taught how to drive and have them buy you your first suit. While it would be great if they did this for you, you can't really be upset with them for not doing this, as it was your decision to go to college etc, not theirs.

The only valid issues I think you have is been knowingly left with a gang of underage drinkers while your parents went away (and probably been expected to deal with any problems if they did arise - quite likely when a gang of 16 year old girls and vodka are combined). And of course, the major one, of your mother using your credit card (which you really need to get sorted - get on to her about getting it paid asap) and turning it around on you to make you feel guilty, but parents are like everyone else, they're not always the nicest or most generous people in the world.

LegacyUser

Sorry OP but I think your parents were just teaching you to "toughen up", something my own Dad used say a lot.

My own parents weren't mean, we weren't left without anything we wanted really but to be honest, I've never asked for money off them since I was 15, and couldn't.

I mean seriously... you turned 18 and they expected you to start paying your way as long as you lived with them and taking care of yourself. I had much the same.

I never remember my Dad having some proud day out buying me my first expensive suit... are you joking? My mam came down to Dunnes and fussed over the size of the pants or something, and I bought a cheap suit I needed, end of.

If your rent at home was so ridiculous... try living in the real world... 150? Man, if I could pay 150 in rent, what I could do.

I mean, when you WERE in a tight spot, sounded like they came through and helped you out.

I think they were just trying to teach you a lesson in being an adult. I mean, you mentioned being so broke and went and took a massive loan for a Masters. I don't know... it doesn't make sense to me, and then come back and blame your overdraft on your parents charging you minimal rent. Makes no sense.

lazygal

Wow, you sound like you feel incredibly hard done by and seem to have harbored a huge amount of resentment.

First off, I lived at home throughout college but worked. In fact, I got my first babysitting jobs at about 15/16, then a job in a local hotel, then worked in retail. From the time I started earning, I bought my own clothes, books, school supplies (including uniform) and funded my social life. I was delighted to not have to ask mammy and daddy for money, I could spend it how I wished. From the summer before first year in college, I earned more as I was working full time so started handing up rent money, again happy to do so as home was handy enough and no bills to pay. I wasn't expected to hand up money during term time, but I worked about 20 hours a week on top of a hefty course load, while doing several other classes a week for a hobby of mine. When I worked full time during the summers I always handed up one third of my wages to my mum, apart from the one summer I worked abroad, which I funded from my savings.

As soon as I graduated, I realised I wasn't going to be able to fund a masters straight away, so did a diploma course part-time in the evenings, while working full time and handing up rent. There was no way I expected my parents to fund a masters, I saw their job as getting me through the leaving cert and anything on top of that was up to me. I don't get the 'my parents really valued education so I didn't work while I was studying' points, my parents both work in education but got their qualifications on their own well after leaving school, so they knew its totally possible to balance work and study, and in fact I left college with a far better CV than most of my contemporaries.

The work ethic your parents instilled has stood to you and your brother well I think. You've both got jobs and are making your way in life. The credit card thing is a bit odd, I'm not quite sure what's going on there. But you really have to let this go. I don't think its healthy for you, your new family or your extended family to be going over your college years again and again. You have your qualifications done, you have a career and a family. Stop being so negative, you're the only one suffering if you keep these chips on your shoulder. I know very, very few people who were totally bankrolled by their parents, so you're not some hard luck unique case. Most people have to work to get through life, whether they go to college or not.

LegacyUser

OP, I came from the opposite background. Poorer upbrining not many holidays or presents for that matter. The only time my parents really helped me financially was when I did go to uni. They didn't pay for it as they could not afford to but I lived rent free through my entire studies. I had to work and pay for my fees, books, clothes and other expenses which did teach me to be responsible with my finances.

From reading your post, I do not think it's about stinginess per say. I think they were trying to teach you to be indepedent. Though the way they did it was cold and calculated to be honest. One of my brothers did not go to college. He started working and he paid rent before my parents even asked. When my brother started college few years later he still paid the same rent even though my parents told him he could pay less because of those costs. My bro paid the same amount because he told me he would feel cheap if he didn't. There are parents out there who have different views and opinions on the issue of education, rent and growing up or cutting the apron strings.

There is a tone of entitlement in your post and this is what concerns me more. Your parents are responsible for feeding, clothing, providing shelter, education until the age of 18. After that whatever they do is an added bonus not an expectation. I never expected my parents to pay for my education or financially support me then. I will be honest that I was grateful for the added bonus of letting me live rent free and fed me whilst my studies. But it was not something I expected them to do. BTW, I never was taught how to drive as both my parents didn't drive. We lived close to public transport. Driving lessons were our own responsibility and most of my friends who had parents that did drive had to do the same and these were friends that came from financially well off backgrounds.

The only disturbing thing was your mother did was use your credit card without telling you. But then again, if you had checked your statements regularly, you would have known this before it went too far. I gave a credit card to my parents with 5,000€ limit (without the expectation of them paying me back) almost ten years ago and to this day never used it! For me, I am more hurt by this than happy as I would like them to treat themselves for once.

Stavro Mueller

I don't think it's as black and white as some people have made this out to be. I agree that at times reading this, I wanted to slap the OP about the ears for the reasons people have outlined here. I don't buy into the "tough love" theory though. His parents certainly did do a lot for him and were pretty generous at times. That was counterbalanced by them being quite mean-spirited on occasions.

Some people on this thread have wondered are the OP's parents as financially healthy as he thinks they are. I'm inclined to agree. I cannot think of any other reason why his mother went behind his back and used his credit card without his permission. I too wonder why he never got any statements or letters but maybe he had just stopped using the card and the mail was going to his home?

A few times during his post, he alluded to their spending habits and them splashing the cash. It might go some way towards explaining why they've grudgingly paid for things on occasions and looked for so much rent from the OP. As an aside, I shared a rented house in a city here during the "Celtic Tiger Years" and there is no way that my rent/food/bills came to €150 per week.

As to where to go from here, I don't know. I would hope that the OP has gotten a lot of things off his chest by posting here. He would be better off concentrating on his new family than what has gone before. Unfortunately not all parents love you unconditionally and I can't help but think that this is the case here.

Edit: I missed the remortgaging bit. It adds to my theory that they're not as well off as you think.

LegacyUser

soarlikeaneagle wrote: »

I then get a call out of the blue from the bank. I had given my credit card to my mother a few years beforehand, as the bank gave me a huge limit when I was a student (silly banks eh!) and my parents credit card had a much lower limit. The mother asked and I said no problem, here’s my card. The bank were ringing to tell me there was a 3, 000 euro bill that hadn’t had any payments in ages. I was livid with the mother, she came up with every excuse under the sun explaining her actions and even turned it around on me and made me out to be the bad one, saying that she used it to help out her mother (my grandmother) because she was going through a hard time, and if I cared about my grandmother I should understand. This seriously affected my credit rating (I checked it out) and it may stop me and my girlfriend getting a mortgage here in London which is our intention.
QUOTE]

Your post is way too long ..its very hard to follow. I find your parents very bizarre and strange people.
Its strange they sort of spoiled you when you were kids and then couldn’t be bothered to help you when you were in college.
They obviously are really bad with finances if they are earning so much from a garage they then re-mortgaged their house and spent the money willy nilly.
The deal breaker for me would be your mothers dishonesty and theft – honestly she either has a drink or gambling problems that she has to resort to that kind of dishonesty

LegacyUser

OP here, thanks for your responses people. I appreciate getting objective viewpoints and people telling it like it is. I suppose I was a bit blinkered and self-centred. I accept I should have focused on the path ahead rather than looking for a hand-out. Posting this here and getting peoples’ impartial opinions gives me closure on the issue and put it in the past. I can certainly say that the whole experience has hugely influenced my outlook on life and money. I now have a very clear vision of what I would like to spend my money on in the future, what I won’t spend money on, and how I will do things with my boy. I have definitely learned to be independent, persevering and resilient, as pointed out. I just wish that the means to get there weren’t so difficult.

Just to clarify a few points that were raised. I should have added that my parents’ actions regarding my education seemed very hypocritical to me. In secondary school I won a couple of awards (transition year research project and leaving cert engineering project) and on both occasions, parents were delighted to come to awards ceremony, got picture taken, then send that picture into local paper (without asking me or mentioning it to me) so everyone in the town could see them with me getting the award. I overheard them on several occasions boasting about how well I was doing in school/college and how proud they were, how they instilled that value into me buy buying me books etc. People whom I didn’t know very well would tell me about how my parents explained to them in the pub how well I was doing in college. I also overheard the father telling a relative about plans he had to build an extension onto the house and provide me with a study. Needless to say, this was bs. So they had this attitude of taking credit when I did well academically, but weren’t prepared to really help me behind the scenes.

About the credit card, what happened was I gave it to my mother, then left the home family and the bills and statements were still being sent there. I asked the mother on at least 2/3 occasions about the card. Each time she lied and said she used it and then paid off the balance the following month. The reason I didn’t follow my card very closely was because I trusted my mother.

To be honest, I think that praising a parent for feeding their children and putting a roof over their head until they’re 18 is ridiculous. Those are basic human rights and we live in Ireland, not Africa.

Obviously their money is their concern, but what I can’t understood is a parent being faced with a direct choice between gambling money or putting it towards their childrens’ education and choosing the former. Again, this is just something I will never see myself doing and thankfully I can put this down as a learning experience.

1 poster mentioned about me doing the accounts for the father’s garage and helping them out. While I’ve never done that (he has an accountant friend who knows the specific loopholes), I did spend a good bit of time helping design some flyers and an ad for the garage.

Just out of curiosity while we are on the same subject, and I’m genuinely not asking this as a way of “seeking revenge” on the parents, but do you think that children have an obligation to their parents when they get older to put them into a good old folks home if they get alzheimers or something like that, or pay for a nurse/maid if they want to stay in their own home? Or is it just a child’s job to make sure they get medical care in the hospital and that’s it, and leave the State look after them.

ash23

soarlikeaneagle wrote: »

To be honest, I think that praising a parent for feeding their children and putting a roof over their head until they’re 18 is ridiculous. Those are basic human rights and we live in Ireland, not Africa.

Nobody praised them for it. But you want to put them down for not supporting you after you reached 18. There is a big difference.

Just out of curiosity while we are on the same subject, and I’m genuinely not asking this as a way of “seeking revenge” on the parents, but do you think that children have an obligation to their parents when they get older to put them into a good old folks home if they get alzheimers or something like that, or pay for a nurse/maid if they want to stay in their own home? Or is it just a child’s job to make sure they get medical care in the hospital and that’s it, and leave the State look after them.

Nobody has an obligation to look after their parents. Not a legal one anyway. But if one can afford to make sure a vunerable, ill, elderly relative is looked after then they should. Much the same as a parent should look after a child (and not an adult!)

paperclip2

To be honest OP if we all took a long look at our childhood most of us could probably say that our parents could have done more for us. But so what.

My own parents stopped supporting me at 17. I put myself through college and while I certainly didn't live the high life I managed very well, learning to be fully independent and self-reliant at a young age. Sure, there are things I wish my parents had done for me or supported me more in doing but the reality is that anything I achieved since the age of 17 are my achievements. I'm beholden to no-one for them.

Looking back I think this was a great gift my parents gave me. I understand my own ability to set and achieve goals as well as deal with problems and obstacles. These are fairly fundamental skills these days
I was also able to develop a more adult relationship with my parents as I wasn't financially dependent on them.

I think its a matter of perspective OP. The glass of the past can be half full or half empty but its up to you to choose which way to look at it.

Beruthiel

soarlikeaneagle wrote: »

I can certainly say that the whole experience has hugely influenced my outlook on life and money. I now have a very clear vision of what I would like to spend my money on in the future, what I won’t spend money on, and how I will do things with my boy. I have definitely learned to be independent, persevering and resilient, as pointed out.

Then it is safe to say that your parents did very well by you and have set you up to have a great life.

I just wish that the means to get there weren’t so difficult.

Be assured, if it had not been difficult, you would have learned nothing.

do you think that children have an obligation to their parents when they get older to put them into a good old folks home if they get alzheimers or something like that, or pay for a nurse/maid if they want to stay in their own home? Or is it just a child’s job to make sure they get medical care in the hospital and that’s it, and leave the State look after them.

You are under no obligation to do any of the above.
That is solely down to you and your conscience.

username123

soarlikeaneagle wrote: »

Obviously their money is their concern, but what I can’t understood is a parent being faced with a direct choice between gambling money or putting it towards their childrens’ education and choosing the former. Again, this is just something I will never see myself doing and thankfully I can put this down as a learning experience.

Because parents are flawed humans too? My alcoholic father drank the value of of my education, many times over. But you know what, I learned an important lesson from it - dont become an alcoholic waster. If you believe your parents behaved wrongly, then dont become them, learn from their mistakes.

soarlikeaneagle wrote: »

Just out of curiosity while we are on the same subject, and I’m genuinely not asking this as a way of “seeking revenge” on the parents, but do you think that children have an obligation to their parents when they get older to put them into a good old folks home if they get alzheimers or something like that, or pay for a nurse/maid if they want to stay in their own home? Or is it just a child’s job to make sure they get medical care in the hospital and that’s it, and leave the State look after them.

No. You reap what you sow. If you estrange and/or alienate your children then why would you expect them to take care of you in old age? I doubt most people would depend on their kids to take care of them in old age anyway, no one sensible would, too many variables, the kids could be moved elsewhere, broke, estranged, dead, whatever. Most sensible people would make their own plans on it.

ViveLaVie

I disagree. I think you have a moral responsibility to make sure your parents are cared for in their old age/sickness. Your parents raised you. I think it's pretty poor repayment to wash your hands of them when the shoe is on the other foot and they need your help.

ash23

ViveLaVie wrote: »

I disagree. I think you have a moral responsibility to make sure your parents are cared for in their old age/sickness. Your parents raised you. I think it's pretty poor repayment to wash your hands of them when the shoe is on the other foot and they need your help.

I guess that is the case if your parents raised you. I feel no obligation for my father as he was not very involved. I wouldn't be able to consider moving him in with me or wiping his arse while changing his adult nappies. He would be in a home and I think my siblings would all feel the same.
But my mother, I'd mind her in a heartbeat and do everything I could for her in her old age. I love the bones of her and I would do anything for her, not from obligation but because I love her and want the best for her.

ViveLaVie

ash23 wrote: »

I guess that is the case if your parents raised you. I feel no obligation for my father as he was not very involved. I wouldn't be able to consider moving him in with me or wiping his arse while changing his adult nappies. He would be in a home and I think my siblings would all feel the same.
But my mother, I'd mind her in a heartbeat and do everything I could for her in her old age. I love the bones of her and I would do anything for her, not from obligation but because I love her and want the best for her.

I agree. I think the OP's parents did raise him though and he had a very happy upbringing until he was 18 and earning and expected to stand on his own two feet.

I could never put my parents in a home because they have literally done everything they could to raise me well. They would walk through fire for me in a heartbeat. I know my parents hate the idea of being in a home and because I love and respect them so much I would avoid it at all costs.

username123

ViveLaVie wrote: »

I disagree. I think you have a moral responsibility to make sure your parents are cared for in their old age/sickness. Your parents raised you. I think it's pretty poor repayment to wash your hands of them when the shoe is on the other foot and they need your help.

Clearly you have been lucky and have had loving parents. Not everyone has that experience. My father would have walked through fire to get to the next drink, if I was burning in the fire, so be it - the booze would have been more important.

Now thats an extreme - but the point is, if someone feels hard doen by for whatever reason by their parents, well then Id hardly expect them to go out of their way to care for that parent in old age.

ash23

I agree that I don't think the OP was badly treated by his parents. I was just saying that if a parent was truly rubbish then no child should feel obliged to look after them. And if a parent wasn't a terrible parent, then obligation doesn't really come into it, more a desire to do right by them.

username123

ash23 wrote: »

I agree that I don't think the OP was badly treated by his parents. I was just saying that if a parent was truly rubbish then no child should feel obliged to look after them. And if a parent wasn't a terrible parent, then obligation doesn't really come into it, more a desire to do right by them.

+1

ViveLaVie

username123 wrote: »

Clearly you have been lucky and have had loving parents. Not everyone has that experience. My father would have walked through fire to get to the next drink, if I was burning in the fire, so be it - the booze would have been more important.

Now thats an extreme - but the point is, if someone feels hard doen by for whatever reason by their parents, well then Id hardly expect them to go out of their way to care for that parent in old age.

My initial reply to this was directed specifically at the OP. His parents DID raise him and he wanted for nothing. Perhaps the credit card issue has caused some strife now but they will hopefully resolve that.

As many posters have pointed out, the OP had a nice comfortable upbringing and his parents weren't being unreasonable by asking him to contribute to the household and his further education once he was an adult and earning.

Obviously you have experienced a more serious hardship and in that case maybe you don't owe your father anything and shouldn't care for him in his old age.

However your situation is a world away from the OP's. He has displayed an attitude of entitlement but his parents did raise him.

Imo he should look after them in their old age. Feeling hard done by because his friends coasted through college and he had to work for it is not quite the same as having a genuine experience of neglect. Imo that 'hard done by' feeling is only an acceptable reason for refusing to care for your parents when it arises out of genuine hard circumstances.

Lollipops23

OP, I would reiterate what I said earlier about them perhaps not being the nicest of people.

However, it really does sound like you have a lot of anger directed at them; remembering tiny snippets of conversations, small incidents etc. My parents have pissed me off plenty over the years, but I wouldn't be able to name specific instances from years back that really weren't big deals.

For example; you mentioned your first morning of college. You worked late the night before- your bad, as you should have managed your roster far more effectively. You then complain that your dad didn't drop you in. The first and only time my mam even saw my college was the day my results came out and gave me a lift, as I was too nervous to drive.:o
Incidentally, I attended a college 2 buses away on the other side of Dublin. I navigated it all by myself.

What I'm getting at is, you need to let go of all this anger and resentment and take responsibility for your own achievements (good and bad). Focus on rectifying what you felt was done wrong when you bring up your little boy. I think that's all anyone can do when it comes to parenting- figure out what yours did right and wrong, and learn from it.

Sooner or later your child will pick up on the resentment and fixation you seem to have on this area.

username123

@VivelaVie - oh yeah, I agree the OP doesnt have anything to genuinely complain about, BUT - if parents foster a relationship with their kids that leaves the kid with such a feeling of distaste in their mouth, even so many years later as a parent themselves - well its not a good relationship is it? And there are 2 sides to every relationship. Given that there is such a lack of communication even now, when the OP is an adult and has his own child, I cant really see how the OPs parents would be expecting great treatment later.

In simple terms - if your child doesnt like you or resents you (for whatever reason) then theres always the chance that the child wont look after you later. In some cases it might be warranted (like a bad upbringing), but in others it might just be a sour relationship. But I think people have to make their own peace on these things.

ViveLaVie

username123 wrote: »

@VivelaVie - oh yeah, I agree the OP doesnt have anything to genuinely complain about, BUT - if parents foster a relationship with their kids that leaves the kid with such a feeling of distaste in their mouth, even so many years later as a parent themselves - well its not a good relationship is it? And there are 2 sides to every relationship. Given that there is such a lack of communication even now, when the OP is an adult and has his own child, I cant really see how the OPs parents would be expecting great treatment later.

In simple terms - if your child doesnt like you or resents you (for whatever reason) then theres always the chance that the child wont look after you later. In some cases it might be warranted (like a bad upbringing), but in others it might just be a sour relationship. But I think people have to make their own peace on these things.

Well perhaps there is more to this than meets the eye and maybe his parents have fostered this relationship.

However it reads to me like the OP is a product of his environs i.e. he had equally financially comfortable friends who didn't have to work to get through college. He had a privileged upbringing and had the latest toys and holidays.

It seems to me that the OP was used to just getting stuff and didn't like it then when his parents forced him into the real world. He has this rather strange belief that everyone gets their first suit bought for them and it cannot be cheap. He is still bitter, years later, that his dad didn't do a three hour round driving trip to get him to college for Induction Day (which is pretty pointless anyway) despite the kids needing to be looked after and dropped to school as his mum was in hospital.

A lot of this seems to stem from his environs. His friends coasted so why shouldn't he? His upbringing to 18 was rather privileged and that obviously didn't help. However this attitude and sense of entitlement seems to come imo from the OP himself. Maybe his parents could have done more and been warmer people but they don't seem to have made his life unnecessarily difficult. In fact up until 18 they made it pretty easy.

I think the OP had it too easy and when it got hard he grew bitter and resentful because of that. Perhaps his parents should have been harder on him from the beginning.

Now I realise the credit card situation is ridiculous and perhaps the parents haven't visited enough but they are old now. These don't seem to be the reasons for the OP's anger. He is angry over college.

Anyway long story short it seems to me like the OP doesn't have a real reason to be angry with his parents, aside from the credit card. I don't think that is reason enough to wash his hands of them.

If he is angry because of emotional disconnect or other similar reasons then perhaps, but he has only really talked of his parents in terms of money.
The reasons given don't convince me that he would be warranted in refusing their care responsibilities.

I agree with you however in that parents who actively foster or develop emotionally negligent relationships with their kids probably shouldn't look for handouts.

LegacyUser

OP, re the credit card:

Your mother asked you for it - I wonder why she needed it, why she didn't have access to money herself. You didn't hear of any problems from the bank before now so she must have been able to make the repayments, until now. Minimum repayments, mind.

Sounds to me like she's very stuck for money.

Maybe you could help a little without making it obvious and causing embarrassment eg by repaying some of the money you were given during college etc, or by just clearing the credit card debt. You could use close the account if you like but it might be worth finding out what the story is first.

Both you and your brother are earning now. Maybe your parents could do with a bit of a lifeline. Many people who are in severe difficulty try their very best to cover it up.

username123

Given that we are only hearing one side, who knows what really happened, but the facts do seem to suggest that the OP resents his parents and feels hard done by. Much more to it than is being told here no doubt. Based purely on what is being told here the OP has a sense of entitlement beyond reality! But something has led him to analyse his relationship with his parents and find it lacking, and perhaps he cant find anything solid enough to pin the blame on but money?

daisybelle2008

OP- It is funny that on one had you acknowledge, that it made you independent and resilent but then your petty complaints clearly show you do not really understand and value that at all.
I am not sure if it is just that you are just a really negative, resentful, glass half full type of person. I mean instead of saying that your parents were proud of you because they boasted how well you were doing, you see it as them 'taking credit'. Every Silver Lining has a Cloud?.

That story about you being pissed off that your father would not make an almost 4 hour round trip so you could make the full induction day makes you look incredibly petty. I am astounded that you remember this nonsense. For Gods sake your mother was in hospital, your father had enough to be doing taking care of the younger kids. I honestly can't believe you even remember it, never mind actually carry resentment around it. Why would you even dream of inconveniencing your Dad for something so unimportant (It is not as though you get kicked out of college for not turning for the 1st half of induction day). You kind of imply you are a Martyr for managing to get your self there for the 2nd half of the day. When I was 18 I hitched lifts to College everyday, I would have been laughed at if I asked my parents for a lift.

Your 'poor' brother not getting a computer because he decided to treat himself to a foreign holiday with the computer money ?? What kind of a story is that. I kind of hear a lot of your post in a Ross O'Carroll Kelly accent. I am still smiling at how horrified you were about the Penneys suit and not being taken to a Tailor by your father. It's really a bit Kardashian.

The credit card story is one thing, but it looks like she was stuck, forgot to pay it and you completely took your eye off the ball as well and forgot to check it was cleared especially when you weren't getting the bills.