Cycling Tour of Munster - Safety Madness

jimd2

Let me preface thus by saying that I am a cyclist and have participated in a number of road races over the years. I also have brought my children on the road in group cycling events when it is SAFE.

Yesterday our family had the misfortune of driving on the road between Dingle and Killarney and ended up behind an almost endless amount of cyclists. I was very careful passing out the cyclists of course but the whole road was essentially reduced to 20km per hour for the journey. There were other drivers right up behind me egging me to pass when it was not safe. Some cyclists to their credit waved up on to pass but most groups didnt. On occasion I had to pull in when the car in front passing out did not end up with much room between 2 cycling groups. To be honest it was scary at times as it was a very twisty road and I am a very experienced driver.
There are many drivers that would not have had our patience and others that could have had appointments / arrangements etc.

I do also realise that it was for a good charity cause but these things must be done in a safe manner.

I have a few questions:
1. Who gives permission for this on such a busy road at peak driving time of the year?
2. Is there a restriction on the number of cyclists that participate in such an event?
3. Is there no Garda presence?
4. Why not have some information up in tourist offices so that people could try and avoid them. We would have avoided it and some others could have.
5. Why not do it midweek in , say May or September, with lots of publicity and also a restricted number of participants?

As far as I recall there was very little stewarding for this event and they tried their best. At one stage a guy on a motorbike came up on a straight stretch and waved people on.

I see online that it is continuing today.....I do hope that all goes well and it is completed safely.

ashleey

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/kelly-back-in-saddle-to-lead-140-on-bike-tour-3195910.html

Is this enough?

triggermortis

Why would an experienced driver be scared of overtaking a few cyclists? If its not safe to pass, then don't pass and never mind what other drivers are egging you on to do.
I regularly get held up on the road by tractors and farm machinery but you won't see me moaning on a farming forum about it.

Lumen

jimd2 wrote: »

Who gives permission for this on such a busy road at peak driving time of the year?

Who gave you permission to use the road at peak cycling time of the year?

Odelay

triggermortis wrote: »

Why would an experienced driver be scared of overtaking a few cyclists? If its not safe to pass, then don't pass and never mind what other drivers are egging you on to do.
I regularly get held up on the road by tractors and farm machinery but you won't see me moaning on a farming forum about it.

these tractors that "regularly hold you up"- would there be 150 of them doing 20kph for 150kms?

You call the tour of muster "a few cyclists" would you have had no problem overtaking them?

ROK ON

OP

Your experience is unfortunate, however I would lime to make a few points.

I have done the last to TDMs and I can tell you that a lot of effort goes into making the event as safe as possible on the road.
Gardai are notified and it is not unusual to have a garda escort in and out of towns on route.

In the past there have been a number of motor cycle marshals spread across the the peleton.

I know the road that you mention very well - I have cycled and driven it countless times. IMHO it is as easy get caught behind a tractor or slow moving tour bus as it is a group of cyclists.

I happen to live in an area where during the summer months the likelihood of being caught behind slow moving tour busses or large groups of cyclists on charity spins is very commonplace, particularly at weekends. I am impatient but simply have had to suck this up as a cost of where I live.

If you saw unsafe cycling you should have rolled a window and said it, i can assure you that poor/umsafe group cycling is treated very seriously by the organisers/road captains. The TDM divides 140 cyclists into 10 or so groups on the road in order to facilitate cars overtaking. Groups are instructed to keep a gap between other groups so that cars have somewhere to pull in and overtake. You will appreciate that in some cases the tail back of cars will get pretty large.

As to why this event takes place this weekend - tradition. It has occupied this weekend approximately for over a decade.

Every day the AA are notified and issue warnings that over 140 cyclists are travelling from point A to B in the TDM.

jimd2

triggermortis wrote: »

Why would an experienced driver be scared of overtaking a few cyclists? If its not safe to pass, then don't pass and never mind what other drivers are egging you on to do.
I regularly get held up on the road by tractors and farm machinery but you won't see me moaning on a farming forum about it.

First of all it wasnt "a few cyclists". Also, I (obviously) have had to pass out many tractors over the years and, while some are frustrating, it was nothing like this and usually you would have no more than a couple in a row.

We would have had no problem with 1 or 2 groups of approx 10 cyclists but it must have been up to 20 different groups.

I didnt say that there should be no event but i was pointing out that more cognisance of safety and better communication should have taken place.

jimd2

ROK ON wrote: »

OP

Your experience is unfortunate, however I would lime to make a few points.

I have done the last to TDMs and I can tell you that a lot of effort goes into making the event as safe as possible on the road.
Gardai are notified and it is not unusual to have a garda escort in and out of towns on route.

In the past there have been a number of motor cycle marshals spread across the the peleton.

I know the road that you mention very well - I have cycled and driven it countless times. IMHO it is as easy get caught behind a tractor or slow moving tour bus as it is a group of cyclists.

I happen to live in an area where during the summer months the likelihood of being caught behind slow moving tour busses or large groups of cyclists on charity spins is very commonplace, particularly at weekends. I am impatient but simply have had to suck this up as a cost of where I live.

If you saw unsafe cycling you should have rolled a window and said it, i can assure you that poor/umsafe group cycling is treated very seriously by the organisers/road captains. The TDM divides 140 cyclists into 10 or so groups on the road in order to facilitate cars overtaking. Groups are instructed to keep a gap between other groups so that cars have somewhere to pull in and overtake. You will appreciate that in some cases the tail back of cars will get pretty large.

As to why this event takes place this weekend - tradition. It has occupied this weekend approximately for over a decade.

Every day the AA are notified and issue warnings that over 140 cyclists are travelling from point A to B in the TDM.

Thanks for the reasoned response. I didnt roll down the window as I was concentrating on passing out each time as there was very little time. Also, there were very few cyclists that were cycling in a dangerous manner by themselves - I wasnt implying that. Only one guy that was cycling on the wrong side of the road chatting to a guy in a car.

Overall, the biggest issue is one of communication and also, I would keep this tour away from windy roads at peak weekend in the summer. Besides that i wouldnt have an issue.

ROK ON

The best thing for you to do is contact the organisers to air you view.
He is a fair man IMHO. Pm me and I will send you his email.

G2ECE

jimd2 wrote: »

Let me preface thus by saying that I am a cyclist and have participated in a number of road races over the years. I also have brought my children on the road in group cycling events when it is SAFE.

Yesterday our family had the misfortune of driving on the road between Dingle and Killarney and ended up behind an almost endless amount of cyclists. I was very careful passing out the cyclists of course but the whole road was essentially reduced to 20km per hour for the journey. There were other drivers right up behind me egging me to pass when it was not safe. Some cyclists to their credit waved up on to pass but most groups didnt. On occasion I had to pull in when the car in front passing out did not end up with much room between 2 cycling groups. To be honest it was scary at times as it was a very twisty road and I am a very experienced driver.
There are many drivers that would not have had our patience and others that could have had appointments / arrangements etc.

I do also realise that it was for a good charity cause but these things must be done in a safe manner.

I have a few questions:
1. Who gives permission for this on such a busy road at peak driving time of the year?
2. Is there a restriction on the number of cyclists that participate in such an event?
3. Is there no Garda presence?
4. Why not have some information up in tourist offices so that people could try and avoid them. We would have avoided it and some others could have.
5. Why not do it midweek in , say May or September, with lots of publicity and also a restricted number of participants?

As far as I recall there was very little stewarding for this event and they tried their best. At one stage a guy on a motorbike came up on a straight stretch and waved people on.

I see online that it is continuing today.....I do hope that all goes well and it is completed safely.

I think its a case of respecting everyones journey whether they are on foot, bike, tractor or car. If you were uncomfortable overtaking, I would suggest that you dont do it.
I had an experience at the weekend where 4 of us were cycling in single file when a car overtook us and had to swerve back in rather sharply in front of us to avoid an oncoming car, in doing so he hit the ditch, the rear of the car lifted approximately 1 metre into the air before slamming back down on to the road, all only a few bike lengths in front of us, thankfully none of us were harmed nor were the driver or the 3 child passengers in the car.

My point is, we get too wrapped up in the Cyclist v Motorist debate, we need to ensure we respect all road users.

monument

jimd2 wrote: »

Overall, the biggest issue is one of communication and....

Nearly sure AA Roadwatch mentioned it on the radio on the day it started and the day before it started. But even if it's not on the radio, you should look up traffic alerts online.

On the main AA Roadwatch page, they also have a handy map showing alerts where to expect hold ups and works:

jimd2 wrote: »

...and also, I would keep this tour away from windy roads at peak weekend in the summer. Besides that i wouldnt have an issue.

I don't do any of these cycles, most of my cycling is very urban, but at a peak weekend in the summer on windy roads is exactly where I'd expect to meet cyclists, both large groups and individuals.

thesimpsons

I came across this cycle Friday coming from Bunratty towards Limerick city. I've been involved in helping in a few charity cycles and this year cycled in first one myself. The rules used were always single file on roads where theres a single white line, and 2 abreast on a wide hard shoulder. However, I was very surprised at the Tour where they took over the whole of the left lane of the dual carriageway coming up to the roundabouts on city outskirts and were 4/5 abreast many times. There was a garda motorbike controlling the roundabouts which was perfect. But there was a support vehicle with driver waving his hand out the window which was ambiguous to drivers whether he meant we were to pass him out or slow down. tbh most other large cycles I've come across appeared to be better organised. maybe I came across them at a bad spell, but it did surprise me.

monument

thesimpsons wrote: »

However, I was very surprised at the Tour where they took over the whole of the left lane of the dual carriageway coming up to the roundabouts on city outskirts...

These roundabouts?




Why were you surprised?

There's no way any motorist should be attempting to overtake a group of cyclists at a roundabout, so why would they not take the lane?

Casati

G2ECE wrote: »

I think its a case of respecting everyones journey whether they are on foot, bike, tractor or car. If you were uncomfortable overtaking, I would suggest that you dont do it.
I had an experience at the weekend where 4 of us were cycling in single file when a car overtook us and had to swerve back in rather sharply in front of us to avoid an oncoming car, in doing so he hit the ditch, the rear of the car lifted approximately 1 metre into the air before slamming back down on to the road, all only a few bike lengths in front of us, thankfully none of us were harmed nor were the driver or the 3 child passengers in the car.

My point is, we get too wrapped up in the Cyclist v Motorist debate, we need to ensure we respect all road users.

I hope he got his number and reported him for dangerous driving, it sounds like he risked your life and the lives of those in the car so should not be on the road

thesimpsons

ya they're the roundabouts and as I said they were controlled by perfectly. however, coming towards them from Bunratty there are very wide hard shoulders with good surfaces and no road debris all along from Shannon straight thru past Shields garage and further on. This is where they took up the whole lane. It just surprised me considering all the other big cycles I come across every year tend to keep inside the hard shoulder on this stretch both directions.

mcgratheoin

thesimpsons wrote: »

The rules used were always single file on roads where theres a single white line,

That's not very fair on car drivers though. If it's a single white line then they're unlikely to safely be able to overtake cyclists without illegally crossing the white line, so by cycling in single file you are actually taking up more of the road and providing drivers with a longer obstacle to overtake.

My experience of groups of up to 20-30 cyclists has always been two abreast and wave cars through if safe to do so.

Raam

I'm more shocked by the speed: only 20kph. More training needed.

Lusk Doyle

From what I've just read the main gripe appears to be lack of communication from the event to both the OP and the general public. Now, it has been shown that the event made efforts at notification in the press and via the aa. I'm sure that there were other methods used also. OP, when did you advise the event organisers or gardai that you would be traveling that route? Also, I'm shocked to hear that they didn't contact you personally to check if it suited. The entrance fee must have been pittens.

Lusk Doyle

mcgratheoin wrote: »

That's not very fair on car drivers though. If it's a single white line then they're unlikely to safely be able to overtake cyclists without illegally crossing the white line, so by cycling in single file you are actually taking up more of the road and providing drivers with a longer obstacle to overtake.

That's tough sh1t really. Just because there is a slower moving obstacle in front of you doesn't mean that they are in the wrong. I pass tractors on my bike fairly often but I don't gripe about them slowing me down. I also don't gripe about other slow road users when I'm in the car. I wait until I can pass and then do. What if it was a line of cars? No difference!

Mycroft H

Lusk Doyle wrote: »

That's tough sh1t really. Just because there is a slower moving obstacle in front of you doesn't mean that they are in the wrong. I pass tractors on my bike fairly often but I don't gripe about them slowing me down. I also don't gripe about other slow road users when I'm in the car. I wait until I can pass and then do. What if it was a line of cars? No difference!

Can't agree with this enough. There is too many people on the road that need a dose of patience and cop on.

There is plenty of other vehicles on the road other then cars and they are just as entitled to be there as cars are

petethedrummer

I am held up everyday by lines of slow moving cars in Dublin city Centre. It's a disgrace.

Mycroft H

petethedrummer wrote: »

I am held up everyday by lines of slow moving cars in Dublin city Centre. It's a disgrace.

Talk to Joe?

SomeFool

petethedrummer wrote: »

I am held up everyday by lines of slow moving cars in Dublin city Centre. It's a disgrace.

You should voice your concern in the motors forum, :pac:

jimd2

Lusk Doyle wrote: »

From what I've just read the main gripe appears to be lack of communication from the event to both the OP and the general public. Now, it has been shown that the event made efforts at notification in the press and via the aa. I'm sure that there were other methods used also. OP, when did you advise the event organisers or gardai that you would be traveling that route? Also, I'm shocked to hear that they didn't contact you personally to check if it suited. The entrance fee must have been pittens.

No, I also had an issue with the timing of the event...essentially over a weekend at the busiest time of the year. I also had an issue with the sheer numbers of cyclists on the road at the same time and also due to the fact that it was on a very twisty road and the cyclists taking up one side of he road meaning that there was a very long tailback with the consequential safety issues with people attempting to pass.
I said (or I meant to say) that this could have been mitigated to some extent by better communication.

I would also suggest that the cyclists could be split into smaller groups and let off in groups of about 40 every half hour or so so that there is not the major build up that occurred last Saturday and possibly Friday and Sunday as well.

lol on me informing all and sundry about my travel arrangements. I can just imagine the reaction if I did.:D

jimd2

Lusk Doyle wrote: »

That's tough sh1t really. Just because there is a slower moving obstacle in front of you doesn't mean that they are in the wrong. I pass tractors on my bike fairly often but I don't gripe about them slowing me down. I also don't gripe about other slow road users when I'm in the car. I wait until I can pass and then do. What if it was a line of cars? No difference!

I agree that the slow moving vehicle might not always be in he wrong but there has been cases where slow moving vehicles have been pulled in by the gardai for allowing a build up behind them.

I met cyclists on many many occasions over our time in Kerry and Cork and also afterwards on Saturday and I was , of course , always patient and courteous as I was on Saturday behind the Munster Tour. I had no problem at all with any of the cyclists I met and probably wished I could have cycled those roads myself. It was the combination of issues that resulted in the big tailback and the safety implications that spurred me int starting this thread.

Lusk Doyle

jimd2 wrote: »

No, I also had an issue with the timing of the event...essentially over a weekend at the busiest time of the year. I also had an issue with the sheer numbers of cyclists on the road at the same time and also due to the fact that it was on a very twisty road and the cyclists taking up one side of he road meaning that there was a very long tailback with the consequential safety issues with people attempting to pass.
I said (or I meant to say) that this could have been mitigated to some extent by better communication.

I had an issue with the US PGA recently. They did not communicate effectively to me that the event would clash with the Olympics. Also, what's with five hour golf rounds? Do these people not know that I have places to be? I only wish that I could have found out sooner. I was sooo busy that day with my twisty road cycle :P

thesimpsons

by virtue of their nature, charity cycles often involves people giving up their time voluntary and taking days holidays to take part so weekends are the best time. I'd say 90% of big cycles are weekend based.

chakattack

jimd2 wrote: »

No, I also had an issue with the timing of the event...essentially over a weekend at the busiest time of the year.

Yeah busy with people doing stuff...like touring munster on bikes.

Seriously though, would it be better midweek during rush hour? Then the real kamikaze drivers come out...

desertcircus

I'm not sure what else could have been done, to be honest.

1. Hold it midweek? Simply not an option; the vast majority of people aren't going to be able to attend a midweek event. It's the same with GAA, rugby, football, and more or less every sport around.

2. More communication? The AA were informed and there was press coverage of the event.

3. Separate groups out into tens, spaced half an hour apart? With a hundred and forty cyclists, and a projected duration of four or five hours, you'd be looking at twelve solid hours - so the first group leaves at eight in the morning and the last group finishes at eight in the evening. That's not an especially desirable timescale.

Any of the changes you suggest would mean a significantly smaller event, and significantly less money raised for charity. I really don't see how driving slower than usual for a few kilometres one day of the year is a big problem.

monument

jimd2 wrote: »

I said (or I meant to say) that this could have been mitigated to some extent by better communication.

Like what?

avalon68

monument wrote: »

Like what?

Charity cycles often/usually have a lot of inexperienced riders - I think it would be helpful to remind people to keep to single file in traffic - maybe they did, but perhaps a few marshalls could remind people along the way next time.

monument

avalon68 wrote: »

monument wrote: »

Like what?

Charity cycles often/usually have a lot of inexperienced riders - I think it would be helpful to remind people to keep to single file in traffic - maybe they did, but perhaps a few marshalls could remind people along the way next time.

You want 150 cyclists in a group to go single file???

mcgratheoin

Lusk Doyle wrote: »

That's tough sh1t really. Just because there is a slower moving obstacle in front of you doesn't mean that they are in the wrong. I pass tractors on my bike fairly often but I don't gripe about them slowing me down. I also don't gripe about other slow road users when I'm in the car. I wait until I can pass and then do. What if it was a line of cars? No difference!

Relax there - My point was not about cyclists being an obstacle to cars. My point was that cycling in single file is not the correct way to position a group of cyclists on the road - from everybody's point of view.

Special Red

I was one of the cyclists on the TdeM. This thread is a load of auld cobblers and has been put down by those in the know in a very witty way. 20kmp/h... more like average 25kmp/h. There was plenty of space between most of the groups. Very safe event with top notch marshalling.

We as the cyclists don't like that stretch of road either, very boring with lots of straight roads and uneven surfaces.

Have it during the week? and contend with more truck drivers?? No thanks

Less people; sure the more people are on the event the more money is raised.

buffalo

I was pondering this on the way home from a friend's house. Has anyone ever heard complaints about the women's mini-marathon closing down the roads? Always complaints about cyclists. Would the OP be more or less happy if the roads were closed completely for the event?

avalon68

monument wrote: »

You want 150 cyclists in a group to go single file???

Isn't the issue that they were in many many groups, slowing up traffic? I don't see anything wrong with a group of 10, 20 cyclists getting in single file to let traffic pass. Safer for everyone. You never know when some idiot in a car will just plough on regardless.

Chips Lovell

Let me get this straight. There was 140 cyclists?

Cookie_Monster

avalon68 wrote: »

Charity cycles often/usually have a lot of inexperienced riders - I think it would be helpful to remind people to keep to single file in traffic - maybe they did, but perhaps a few marshalls could remind people along the way next time.

why? stay two wide, far more sensible. You pretty much should be giving the same pace to overtake one person as you should 2 and it means a lot less road distance taken up by cyclists in single file. not to mention the increased protection offered and the wider obstacle forcing motorists to actually think a bit more before blindly attempting an overtake

Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »

Let me get this straight. There was 140 cyclists?

seems very small

And OP those cyclists have as much right, if not more, than you to be on those roads, deal with it.

ROK ON

Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »

Let me get this straight. There was 140 cyclists?

Approx 140 cyclists do the TDM, one of whom is Sean Kelly.


For safety and comfort on the road the amount of cyclists are subdivided into smaller groups of maybe 10-14 cyclists.
From my experience of having done 2 TDMs large gaps are enforced between these groups sonthat cars can pass.

There is a road captain assigned to each group whose job is to make sure each peleton keeps moving at a brisk but safe pace, calling roll-ups, and ensuring that people cycle safely.

I have witnessed two cyclists in the past receive warnings regarding dangerous behaviour. Safety is something that the organisers treat very seriously. As is cycling within the law.

The normal Modus Operandi on the road is tight bunch of two abreast. On narrow roads usually single file is called if if it believed it will help other traffic get past.
Like everything else things go smoothly usually, but with 140 cyclists spending a total of 28hours on the bike over four days then incidents are likely.

An event of this size simply can't exist without some people feeling discommoded or put out in some way. Just another form of nimbyism.

Great event over some beautiful areas. You get to cycle with Sean Kelly.

I would recommend it to anybody.

hardCopy

OP, do you overtake funerals?

monkeypants

buffalo wrote: »

I was pondering this on the way home from a friend's house. Has anyone ever heard complaints about the women's mini-marathon closing down the roads? Always complaints about cyclists. Would the OP be more or less happy if the roads were closed completely for the event?

I did see a letter in the paper last year complaining about the length of time that the road was closed for the Dublin City Marathon. This binlid even provided a calculation to determine the length of time that the road should be closed, something along the lines of "I can walk one mile in X:Y time, therefore everyone should be able to complete the marathon in X:Y x 26."

It incensed both my Da and I so much that we seriously considered writing our own letters to the paper. Then we realised that we didn't give a ****e about the author or his opinion. Natural order was restored.

avalon68

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

why? stay two wide, far more sensible. You pretty much should be giving the same pace to overtake one person as you should 2 and it means a lot less road distance taken up by cyclists in single file. not to mention the increased protection offered and the wider obstacle forcing motorists to actually think a bit more before blindly attempting an overtake

seems very small

And OP those cyclists have as much right, if not more, than you to be on those roads, deal with it.

Semantics, my point was it wouldn't hurt to keep left and facilitate overtaking. Everyone has a right to be on the road, that doesn't mean we can't all share it sensibly rather than causing huge tailbacks.

jimd2

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

And OP those cyclists have as much right, if not more, than you to be on those roads, deal with it.

Please explain how the cyclists could have more right to me to be on the road? I can understand having the same rights but why more. My car tax etc is up to date.

jimd2

Special Red wrote: »

I was one of the cyclists on the TdeM. This thread is a load of auld cobblers and has been put down by those in the know in a very witty way. 20kmp/h... more like average 25kmp/h. There was plenty of space between most of the groups. Very safe event with top notch marshalling.

We as the cyclists don't like that stretch of road either, very boring with lots of straight roads and uneven surfaces.

Have it during the week? and contend with more truck drivers?? No thanks

Less people; sure the more people are on the event the more money is raised.

The thread is not auld cobblers - I am fully entitled to my opinion based on my experiences on the day. Others here are fully entitled to their opinion of course - it doesnt mean that I was not entitled to raise the issue.

Mycroft H

jimd2 wrote: »

Please explain how the cyclists could have more right to me to be on the road? I can understand having the same rights but why more. My car tax etc is up to date.

By the fact that cars need inherent permission to use the road - Driving licences, mandatory third party insurance, motor tax etc....

Cyclists don't need any of this.

jimd2

ROK ON wrote: »

Approx 140 cyclists do the TDM, one of whom is Sean Kelly.


For safety and comfort on the road the amount of cyclists are subdivided into smaller groups of maybe 10-14 cyclists.
From my experience of having done 2 TDMs large gaps are enforced between these groups sonthat cars can pass.

There is a road captain assigned to each group whose job is to make sure each peleton keeps moving at a brisk but safe pace, calling roll-ups, and ensuring that people cycle safely.

I have witnessed two cyclists in the past receive warnings regarding dangerous behaviour. Safety is something that the organisers treat very seriously. As is cycling within the law.

The normal Modus Operandi on the road is tight bunch of two abreast. On narrow roads usually single file is called if if it believed it will help other traffic get past.
Like everything else things go smoothly usually, but with 140 cyclists spending a total of 28hours on the bike over four days then incidents are likely.

An event of this size simply can't exist without some people feeling discommoded or put out in some way. Just another form of nimbyism.

Great event over some beautiful areas. You get to cycle with Sean Kelly.

I would recommend it to anybody.

well Rok On, based on MY observations the Modus Operandi mentioned above was not in place last Saturday. However, I apreciate your comments and am in agreement with the overall tone of your response.

jimd2

desertcircus wrote: »

3. Separate groups out into tens, spaced half an hour apart? With a hundred and forty cyclists, and a projected duration of four or five hours, you'd be looking at twelve solid hours - so the first group leaves at eight in the morning and the last group finishes at eight in the evening. That's not an especially desirable timescale.
Any of the changes you suggest would mean a significantly smaller event, and significantly less money raised for charity. I really don't see how driving slower than usual for a few kilometres one day of the year is a big problem.

My point was to seperate out onto overall groups of about 40 seperated by 30 minutes, within those groups of 40 I was saying that they could be split into groups of 10.

I see that the strong feelings of posters on this forum is disagreeing with me and ye are fully entitled to your opinion. I am also entitled to mine and I feel that there are a number of things that could have been done to improve things. Thanks for the feedback anyway to all.

rich.d.berry

avalon68 wrote: »

Semantics, my point was it wouldn't hurt to keep left and facilitate overtaking. Everyone has a right to be on the road, that doesn't mean we can't all share it sensibly rather than causing huge tailbacks.

You're missing the point.

How does keeping to the left facilitate overtaking? To overtake you need to move into the oncoming lane, when safe to do so, and not return to the left until well clear of the vehicle you are passing.

Why should the cyclists put themselves in danger by keeping left to allow motorists to just barge past in the same lane leaving only inches to spare? It is NOT safe for a vehicle to pass a single cyclist in the same lane. It becomes even more dangerous when the number of cyclists increases.

Cyclists who cycle in a tight group 2 abreast are doing you a favour because they are making themselves easier to overtake safely.

And no, everyone does not have a right to be on the road. Drivers may only use motor vehicles on public roads if they are licensed to drive, have a fully roadworthy vehicle and have paid the required taxes and insurance. Cyclists are entitled to use the road without any of the aforementioned requirements.

From my experience, it's not the cyclists who need to learn to share the roads, it's some motorists who feel that they have some sort of elevated entitlement who need to learn that the roads do not belong to them and their motor vehicles.

mh_cork

jimd2 wrote: »

I see that the strong feelings of posters on this forum is disagreeing with me and ye are fully entitled to your opinion. I am also entitled to mine and I feel that there are a number of things that could have been done to improve things. Thanks for the feedback anyway to all.

What were YOU doing on that road? What makes your trip more important than the cyclists? Were you (maybe) on sightseeing or hols? In which case, you were holding up or inconveniencing the locals - how inconsiderate of you!! You were driving on a regional road that has a lot of tourist traffic during the summer. I have driven and cycled that road during peak time and have rarely NOT been held up.

Of course people are going to disagree here - look at the title of the board! You preface your first post about safetly for cyclists, but its bogus. Your attitude can be summarised as saying cyclists are fine as long as they dont inconvenience me. As for communication - what do you want? An AA road update sent to you personally with details of every tractor, caravan, group of cyclists, walking group, funeral, foreign tourist in a rental car, etc.

I have done 4 TdeM's. Its a great event, where 300K is raised each year for charity. Every effort is made to minimise the impact for motorists, while ensuring the safety of the cyclists. In some places this is very difficult and that stretch of road is probably the worst. I'm sorry you were delayed, but what did it cost you - 20 minutes maybe? Your solutions can all be summarised down to limiting the number of cyclists doing this, which will have a direct effect on the money raised for charity. So I will ask you - is 20 minutes of your time more important that 50-100K to a charity?

Lusk Doyle

With regard to the use of the word SAFE in caps in the OP I don't like the suggestion by the way it was put that the cyclists in the event caused an unsafe situation. I don't think that it's anyone's right to overtake slower traffic that they have the misfortune of being behind. A driver making an overtaking manoeuvre on the other side of the road on a road where there is a continuous white line is the one who causes danger. If the road is suitable enough to facilitate safe overtaking then there should be no issue. If the road conditions make for dangerous overtaking manoeuvres then don't do it. Simply wait. This does not give the right to gripe because others in front are slow and you have been inconvenienced.

youtheman

This was my first TdeM tour and to suggest it was 'unsafe' is a gross injustice.

To put things into perspective, this is the 12th TdeM tour and the total monies raised for charity is approximately 1 million euros. The last few years the nominated charity is Down Syndrome Ireland (DSI) and as part of our training regime we have visited some DSI facilities that were built courtesy of the money raised. If you visited any DSI facility I guarantee you would not be complaining about the inconvenience of a delay behind the cyclists.

So the nub of the argument is inconvenience, not safety.

There were at least four experienced motor cycle couriers present at all times. As well as protecting the cyclists then also tried to direct the traffic past the mini peletons (whenever possible). At times it was not possible. As one of the cyclists I was fully aware that we were creating a 'tailback' of traffic (at times), but I was content in the fact that it was justified by the worthy cause that would benefit from the monies raised.