new mosque in clongriffin?

.jacksparrow.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/commercialproperty/2012/0516/1224316188527.html

Hmmm strange place for a mosque?

Aard

The mosque in Clonskeagh has worked out quite well, and is integrated with the neighbourhood.


I think this is a good thing for Clongriffen. The problem with these "new" suburbs (eg Adamstown, Ongar) is that at the start there's no community, nothing that ties the people together. So having this Islamic Centre there will provide a bit of a booster shot of culture and uniqness to Clongriffen.

It's not too odd a location imo. The southside has a mosque and town has a mosque, so it's natural that the next one be built on the northside.

mattjack

.jacksparrow. wrote: »

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/commercialproperty/2012/0516/1224316188527.html

Hmmm strange place for a mosque?

Why is it a strange place ?

Madam_X

.jacksparrow. wrote: »

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/commercialproperty/2012/0516/1224316188527.html

Hmmm strange place for a mosque?

Probably not if there's a high enough number of Muslims to warrant it. Would free up the community centre or wherever they hold their services.

A built-up area in a city is actually a very obvious place for a mosque.
A strange place would for it would be a country village.

pontia

why were 3 posts including mine erased ?

Miss Lockhart

I would welcome a mosque to my area if it stopped gatherings/ceremonies/prayers being held in private housing estates with dozens of cars abandoned on footpaths and green spaces nearby.

If there are enough muslims to warrant it then I can't see the problem.

AnonoBoy

pontia wrote: »

why were 3 posts including mine erased ?

You posted on the thread in After Hours. This is a different thread?

pontia

oh sorry,thanks

Chucken

Its not just a mosque in all fairness.

.....A two-year search for a suitable site for another Mosque along with a range of support facilities including a 34-classroom school, conference centre, assembly hall, playground, swimming pool and on-site apartments.

Sounds lovely to me

_blank_

Is the proposed site the big tract of land just beside the Centra?

Sunnyisland

Q, has the two mosques In Dublin got minarets and are they used to call for prayer ?

_blank_

There's also a Mosque on Talbot Street

Thread from 2008

.jacksparrow.

Onixx wrote: »

.jacksparrow. wrote: »

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/


commercialproperty/2012/0516/1224316188527.html

Hmmm strange place for a mosque?

Probably not if there's a high enough number of Muslims to warrant it. Would free up the community centre or wherever they hold their services.

A built-up area in a city is actually a very obvious place for a mosque.
A strange place would for it would be a country village.

Well if you know clongriffen you would know its a very built up area,one road in and one road out,to Add an extra 40,000 people daily seems like a bit of a disaster with a view to transport etc.one bus stops there,but the dart does stop there which is something.

One thing I keep thinking is there is a lot of young families in the area with young kids.Not easy to predict how sticking this in the middle would work with a view to mixing and integrating etc.

Seems like it has just went through under the radar.

lola85

The area is already very populated with traffic problems every morning and evening. The buses and trains are also packed every morning and evening. I assume they have plans to improve this before building such a significant development in the area?! I hope prayer calls will not be allowed or there will be a lot of very unhappy local residents.

_blank_

.jacksparrow. wrote: »

Add an extra 40,000 people daily

What? What are you talking about?

there are 40k Muslims in Dublin, which already has 3 Mosques, a fairly sizable one over the Southside and two (possibly more) smaller ones in town.

Now, instead of making silly generalisations like "daily" maybe you need to educate yourself a bit about Muslim attendance at Mosque services.

Yes, in Muslim countries there is a call to prayer twice or three times a day (that also happens here, in the form of the Angelus bells ringing at 12 and 6 by the way), but the vast, vast majority of Muslims attend Mosque only once a week, usually on a Friday or a Saturday.

It's a Friday in the one on Talbot Street, I've often seen them coming out of there after their service. Usually they are friendly and peaceful, if not a little rowdy and happy to see their friends, hugging and talking a bit loudly. Meh.

I'd imagine with them wanting to integrate, they'll try to be as un-disruptive as possible, and will more than likely have their main services on a Saturday. But like every single church in Dublin, you'll have the more devout members of the congregation attending services every morning, the feckin cheek of them.

If this was a large church being built, no-one would care.

Muslims are normal human beings, albeit there are probably a higher % of them who still retain their faith compared to the Irish "catholics" of today.

I can't wait until this is built, Mosques are some of the most beautiful buildings in the world.

And god knows, Clongriffin needs a nice building to look at, it will be wonderfully juxtaposed with the ghost town that is Priory Hall.

mattjack

lola85 wrote: »

The area is already very populated with traffic problems every morning and evening. The buses and trains are also packed every morning and evening. I assume they have plans to improve this before building such a significant development in the area?! I hope prayer calls will not be allowed or there will be a lot of very unhappy local residents.

School,swimming pool,conference centres ,accommodation etc being brought to the area alongside employment and you complain about prayer calls.
That whole area that the Muslim group is looking to develop is a wasteland.

_blank_

Do the local business around Christchurch complain about those bleedin infernal bells they constantly chime?

do my nut in they do.

Sunnyisland

Suppose I will have to ask my question to my Muslim barber who I see quite regularly and shall lets you know.

_blank_

realies wrote: »

Suppose I will have to ask my question to my Muslim barber who I see quite regularly and shall lets you know.

The Mosque on Talbot St has no minaret, and there is no call to prayer.

I don't know about the southside one. But I've never heard anyone ever make reference to it.

Aard

.jacksparrow. wrote: »

One thing I keep thinking is there is a lot of young families in the area with young kids.Not easy to predict how sticking this in the middle would work with a view to mixing and integrating etc.

Seems like it has just went through under the radar.

There shouldn't be any problems with "mixing and integrating". The muslims in Clonskeagh fit in just fine, and I've never heard of any racism towards them. This isn't like France where the muslims (or at least the north Africans) have historically been stamped upon and subsequently rebel. And don't forget that even within those of Islamic faith, there are many different races and cultures that don't necessarily have much in common (eg Indonesia, Malaysia, Turkey, Pakistan, west Africa, central Asia). It's not like all the muslims will be congregating to the exclusion of white Irish catholics! This can only be a positive thing for the area.

Also, saying it's gone under the radar is a bit ridiculous as according to the Irish Times article you linked to, there hasn't even been a planning application made yet. People can voice their concerns publicly once that's done.

Dub13

I live about 5 min walk from there proposed site and think its a great idea.The shopping center there may open now with alot more activity in the area.Its actually a great spot for this as its right beside the dart and a good bus services.

Mr Simpson

.jacksparrow. wrote: »

Well if you know clongriffen you would know its a very built up area,one road in and one road out,to Add an extra 40,000 people daily seems like a bit of a disaster with a view to transport etc.one bus stops there,but the dart does stop there which is something.

One thing I keep thinking is there is a lot of young families in the area with young kids.Not easy to predict how sticking this in the middle would work with a view to mixing and integrating etc.

Seems like it has just went through under the radar.

The road from Marrsfield to Hole in the Wall Road is due to open soon afaik.

Where abouts is this to be built in Clongriffin? Beside Marrsfield or further up?

Anything that will breathe some more energy into Clongriffin and the whole area can only be a good thing imho. Also as Dub13 said, maybe this means the shopping centre will get to open.

K.Flyer

Des wrote: »

Is the proposed site the big tract of land just beside the Centra?

The land borders the park and Marrsfield Ave.
The clearing of the site began in May 2012.

K.Flyer

mattjack wrote: »

That whole area that the Muslim group is looking to develop is a wasteland.

True enough, and an eyesore. It is an area of land that was going to have a high density apartment complex on it. Some of the underground infrastructure was already put in by the previous developer (owner).

K.Flyer

realies wrote: »

Q, has the two mosques In Dublin got minarets and are they used to call for prayer ?

Clonskea has a minaret, No they do not call to prayer through it.
People know what time prayer will be at, they arrive early and the Imam will call them to prayer inside.
Those who cannot attend can receive the call by a radio broadcast on a special receiver in their homes.

K.Flyer

.jacksparrow. wrote: »

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/

commercialproperty/2012/0516/1224316188527.html

Seems like it has just went through under the radar.

Not quite..

The news article is from the 16 of May and it says a formal application was to be put through this Summer, which would mean once the application gets lodged, notices will have to be posted on the outside of the proposed development for all to see.

.jacksparrow. wrote: »

Add an extra 40,000 people daily seems like a bit of a disaster with a view to transport etc.

The article says there are 40,000 muslims in the City and its suburbs.
Further down the article it says the centre will be abe to accomodate up to 5,000 people at any one time.
I imagine the apartment development that was going to be built there beforehand may have housed as many, if not more people had it been built.

.jacksparrow.

Ok fair enough I read that article wrong ill admit that.
People are making good points as to why its a good thing.

As I said I was worried and still am about public transport and how it will affect the area.anyone who lives around the area will know there is way too many apartments and houses in relation to roads and bus stops.its a nightmare most days just getting through the area,it was a case of build as much as we can but pay no attention to roads and logistics.I just don't want to see another project stuck in somewhere with no proper planning etc AGAIN.
As far as the shopping centre opening,it was meant to be open 5 years now,I can't see this giving it the much needed push.There is plenty of big shops around the area,one is a 5 minute walk from clongriffin,so why the shop needs to be opened so urgently is beyond me.

But as I said there is some good points been made as to why it is a good idea.

Dyr

there are many different races and cultures that don't necessarily have much in common

Their holy handbook says that they have a great deal in common :P

woodseb

seems like great news for the area, gives it a much needed boost

probably bad news for the lads who run the off-licence there though:D

dearg lady

It's over a year since I lived in Clongriffin, but the only time I remember traffic being really bad is early mornings, at Donaghmede roundabout, not even in Clongriffin itself. I think there's plans to replace it with a junction which will hopefully make it quicker to get through for anyone coming from Clongriffin.

I think it's great news, anything that draws people into a new estate is a good thing!

Seanchai

From the article:

"A two-year search for a suitable site for another Mosque along with a range of support facilities including a 34-classroom school, conference centre, assembly hall, playground, swimming pool and on-site apartments"

This is not going to end well. Does this state ever learn from the disaster that is British policy in this area? Blind, utterly blind.

This is yet more evidence of the short sightedness of this state continuing its support for denominational education, a policy which itself is from the 1830s. Once they get these "rights" to a state-financed education this state will find it very, very, very hard to take them back.

The sooner all religion is taken out of all state-funded Irish schools and the Irish state assumes control of all schools which receive state funding the better.

Miss Lockhart

There's already a muslim national school in Clonskeagh.

_blank_

...and it doesn't say it is going to be a religious school at all.

It could be an Educate Together, for example.

Mr Simpson

Des wrote: »

...and it doesn't say it is going to be a religious school at all.

It could be an Educate Together, for example.

I would imagine it will be a muslim school, theres an educate together about two minutes walk from the site.

John Mason

Seanchai wrote: »

From the article:

. Once they get these "rights" to a state-financed education this state will find it very, very, very hard to take them back.

who are "they"? and how is giving "them" rights going to bring society down

mattjack

Seanchai wrote: »

From the article:


This is not going to end well. Does this state ever learn from the disaster that is British policy in this area? Blind, utterly blind.

This is yet more evidence of the short sightedness of this state continuing its support for denominational education, a policy which itself is from the 1830s. Once they get these "rights" to a state-financed education this state will find it very, very, very hard to take them back.

The sooner all religion is taken out of all state-funded Irish schools and the Irish state assumes control of all schools which receive state funding the better.

Apart from the school is everything else ok with you ? the conference centre,pool,shopping centre etc

Dyr

Des wrote: »

...and it doesn't say it is going to be a religious school at all.

It could be an Educate Together, for example.

And i could be kosher :pac:

_blank_

OK, so let's say it is a Muslim school then, I accept that in all probability it will be.

So what? Do Muslim parents not have the right to choose to send their children to a Muslim school? Will it be state funded? Is there any indication that it will be?

Even if the state secularised all schools tomorrow, there is nothing stopping Catholics, Protestants, Muslims, Jews, Buddhists of Big Flying Spaghetti Monsterists from setting up a privately funded school for adherents of their faith to attend, following the curriculum, but with an added religious class.

Dyr

Des wrote: »

following the curriculum, but with an added religious class.

And I'm kosher :pac:

subway

dearg lady wrote: »

It's over a year since I lived in Clongriffin, but the only time I remember traffic being really bad is early mornings, at Donaghmede roundabout, not even in Clongriffin itself. I think there's plans to replace it with a junction which will hopefully make it quicker to get through for anyone coming from Clongriffin.

you'll be pleased to know they have made a mess of it instead! pedestrian lights on 2 sides within yards of the roundabout exit (with more to come?) strange (unmarked) road narrowing on the donaghmede exit where I've seen a few cars drive right into the protruding kerb

in relation to the mosque/facilities, i think its a great idea. i live not far from there and have plenty of friends & family in the area and a bit of diversity & activity would not go amiss tbh. If they are using the entire wasteland, I'm sure adequate parking will be a requisitie.

there may be further issues with access, but if both ends are open and the calls to prayer in the evening or at weekends, it wont be comparable to the missing 2400 homes that never got built, including a superquinn that would easily see 5k customers in an afternoon or the civil service move that would have seen 10k(?) staff relocated there, never mind the total 80%(?) of businesses that have never opened.

flanzer

where's the exact site? Is it where the car park is for the Italian, across from the off licence? There so mush wasteland around there, it's unbelievable. This is a great move for the area should everything go to plan

AnalogueKid

There's also a Shia mosque in Milltown. The one in Clonskeagh is very nice I think.

Loughc

Good news really, anything that can breathe a bit of life to Clongriffin can only be a good thing, especially as I live 5 min walk from there!

_blank_

This the one in Clonskeagh

Cork boy 55

.jacksparrow. wrote: »

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/commercialproperty/2012/0516/1224316188527.html

Hmmm strange place for a mosque?

Whose paying for it and why?

from OP

Funding for the development has been promised by 10 wealthy individuals as well as charitable organisations in the Middle East.

BFDCH.

mattjack wrote: »

School,swimming pool,conference centres ,accommodation etc being brought to the area alongside employment and you complain about prayer calls.
That whole area that the Muslim group is looking to develop is a wasteland.

I know assumptions are the mother of all **** ups but I'm going for it anyway. I assume those facilities are for the Muslim patrons rather than the community in general. So it's fair enough to complain if there's a call to prayer at 6 in the morning. Much worse than church bells, which are annoying in themselves.

K.Flyer

Cork boy 55 wrote: »

Whose paying for it and why?

From Irish Times Article...
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/commercialproperty/2012/0516/1224316188527.html

Funding for the development has been promised by 10 wealthy individuals as well as charitable organisations in the Middle East.

^^^^^
Answers the first part of your question, which means its not the Irish Taxpayer its a private venture.

As to why?... Well why not, if thats what they want to do.

K.Flyer

BFDCH. wrote: »

I know assumptions are the mother of all **** ups but I'm going for it anyway. I assume those facilities are for the Muslim patrons rather than the community in general. So it's fair enough to complain if there's a call to prayer at 6 in the morning. Much worse than church bells, which are annoying in themselves.

From the Irish Times Article...
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/commercialproperty/2012/0516/1224316188527.html

... The group is anxious to make it known that the proposed amenities will be available not only to the Muslim population but also to families of other faiths - or no faith - with the intention of promoting harmonious relations.

They do not openly call to prayer from the other Mosques in the city, not even from the one in Clonskea and that has a minaret.
The people arrive early and are called to prayer by the Imam from inside the Mosque.

_blank_

BFDCH. wrote: »

I know assumptions are the mother of all **** ups but I'm going for it anyway. I assume those facilities are for the Muslim patrons rather than the community in general. So it's fair enough to complain if there's a call to prayer at 6 in the morning. Much worse than church bells, which are annoying in themselves.

You've been to the Middle East I take it, where every little piddly local Mosque has it's own Call To Prayer at Sunrise and Sunset?

It sounds intrusive the first few times you hear it, after that though you get used to it, and it becomes just another "sound of the city" - car horns and sirens in NYC, church bells in Ireland, you hardly even notice them any more, but they happen.

I've stood on a hill overlooking a Middle East city at sunset, and somewhat unexpectedly the Call To Prayer started, first in one Mosque, then gradually the rest of them started up - it was one of the most peacefully eerie things I've ever experienced - and I'm in no way religious.

anyway, it's already been stated in this thread that there is no CTP from the Mosque in Clonskeagh, and that it is done in the Mosque itself when everyone arrives, so as not to interfere with the locality - this will be similar.

As for the post about "who's paying and why" - I don't like the implications there, they are totally unfounded. Of course it's rich benefactors, and it's not surprising they are from the Middle East.

Cork boy 55

K.Flyer wrote: »

From Irish Times Article...
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/commercialproperty/2012/0516/1224316188527.html



^^^^^
Answers the first part of your question, which means its not the Irish Taxpayer its a private venture.

As to why?... Well why not, if thats what they want to do.

I was not talking about taxpayers I was questioning Who these Middle east Groups are and what are their motives?

It's Wahhabi Gulf states petrodollars, that's what it is.
and the motive is spread Islam globally and conquer.

Saudi Arabia, where conservative Wahhabism predominates, pays vast sums for building mosques and other institutions in Europe.
For example The Saudis have contributed £100 million to a controversial project to build the largest mosque in Europe in London. In France, the UOIF an umbrella group of doctrinaire Muslim youth Organization gets a quarter of its annual budget from Saudi Arabia, The UAE and Kuwait. Stockholm Great mosque was long financed by a Skeih from the UAE.
Scratch deep enough and you find some very sinister people behind this cash. The motive was the same as Christain missionaries and imperialism in Africa. Colonialism of the host country. Spread their creed.

Muslim Population grow rapidly due to a variety of lessons
Control of their females mating and reproduction. higher birth rates, arranged marriage with mates brought over from the old homeland, chain migration etc.
We are 1-3 generation behind the rest of western Europe in this regard (mass Islamic migration) and can view the results and it is not pretty.
They form parallel societies and cause are sorts of intergration and socioeconomic issues.

The pew research forum say their numbers will be 125,000 by 2030
so we are going to need more mosques and Saudi funding also a few districts of the city will be majority Muslim by then.

Ireland Muslim population
1990 15,000 0.4%
2010 43,000 0.9%
2030 125,000 2.2%(median projected)

http://features.pewforum.org/muslim-population/

Aard

I thought this thread might take such a turn...


Who cares who's paying for the mosque? In economic terms, it's a huge construction project that will inject a lot of capital into the country from outside. Its construction will employ a lot of people. Socially, it will provide services to Clongriffen that arguably it would be waiting years if not decades for.

Speculating on the motives of these foreign investors is a bit over the top. Considering that about one-fifth of the entire global population is muslim, is it not to be expected that increased immigration here in general is likely to increase the muslim population by default?