Religious discussion with agnostics can be just as bad

sockmo

This morning I learned that the frustrating feeling we all get while having a debate with a christian is not just solely for them. I put up a facebook status the other day regarding Katie Taylors thanking of God after the fight and how ridiculous is was.My status was only half serious and was meant in a kind of humourous way.Anyway this opened up a massive thread on my facebook page with one friend in particular, who I believe is agnostic,who accused me of being a bigot and spreading hate and so on...

These are methods usually reserved to staunch chrisians when in debates.Here are some examples of what I was saying and her responses.

My original status- "Katie Taylor- " God is my shield and my strength" yes,because make believe fairies in the sky have a lot to do with influencing the outcome of boxing matches.**** sake

Her reply "Eh... It's called faith and I don't think you can begrudge her that. Whatever gets her through getting punched in the face repeatedly for 8mins no?"

Me- I dont begrudge her...I just find it ridiculous she kept mentioning God in her interview. Her family are christian fundamentalists, its a pity really.ALso quite funny that she kills the **** out of somebody then thanks her God.Cos her God loves helping her win things despite the other person suffering a loss.But maybe the Tajikistan Girls God wanted her to lose,you know,cos shes a woman and all that? hmm..."

In her after-match interview today,Katie Taylor basically credited her performance to GOD...GOD gave her strength to win the fight etc....we are all so used to this type of unfounded religious bull**** at this stage.(I hope)...This is a perfect example of the mis-education of children through shameless indoctrination and brainwashing if you care to believe it. Some of us have been wise enough to use our own intelligence to stand up and actually refuse to accept the idea of spreading this complete nonsense we had driven down our throats growing up (myself in the traditional catholic environment). ,We grew up,found our own intelligence , embraced the wonders of science and realised that everything they thought us was complete nonsense.And yet I still have a luring issue that I may not be able to get my son into school because I didnt get him baptised, why?..Im not going to force my 8 month old son into the catholic religion before he is old enough to even know how to speak/walk...come on!.We all need to really stand up for ourselves,thankfully in Ireland religious folks are becoming scarce (thank God LOL!)..we need to use our knowledge and general cop-on to fight for reason...this year the human race discovered the higgs boson,we also just landed a very important mission on Mars....The important thing is we are not satisfied with not knowing all the answers so we use our minds to try find out what the **** is actually goin on.We may not ever discover the answers but we are making progress,lots of progress...so people shouldnt use religion as an excuse for their actions or even as a basis for their ethics.there are better ways.Ots the psycological equivelant of blaming somebody else for something when you know it was your fault.Religion teaches us to judge and to fel guilty.It teaches our children false facts as opposed to truth..it still has a big influence on our country and it need to stop...if it doesnt hopefully the flying spagetti monster or the celestial teapot will sort it out.....rant over

NOW this is where it gets interesting

Her -"Would you be having your hysterical rant if she was muslim and thanking allah (like the english boxer khan)? Or is it just christians you are so hate-filled about? Live and let live? I laugh when people rant about fundamentalists but are so enraged and hateful towards an athlete for thanking her deity for a triumph in her sport. I could go on about how as parents we should try set an example of love and understanding of other people and a respect of their beliefs, but you've obviously got that covered. Seriously man, your prejudice is sickening.

ME - "Hey I think your misunderstood what im saying here.There is nothing hate filled about what im saying at all,just truth filled...Im not hating whatsoever...and yes I think muslim belief is just as ridiculous as Christianity,its the same ****.. But unfortunately if you speak up about Muslim people youre immediately accused of being racist.and your also in danger of having a plane flown into your house in the name of Allah.Im not racist, I know people have their beliefs, I just like to question them.Cos we all know its completely upsurd.

HER - "So you hate Christians AND Muslims. Oh well at least you hate everyone. Who does that leave? Hindus? Buddhists? Pagans? How about Seventh day adventists? Your blinkered bitter and twisted view on belief is astounding. Explain to me exactly how you were "Harmed" by katies personal beliefs? Belief or Faith, to give it it's proper title, is a fundamental element of all belief systems, that's why they are based on belief rather than proof. By tarring all believers with the same "mentally twisted people" brush you are showing yourself up for the bigot that you are. Just like the people you are ranting about. How ironic. Try love thy neighbour bitch.

---

Now I wont post the whole thing cos it gets a bit long a silly but
SERIOUSLY?? see what she did there?, all of a sudden im accused of being prejudice and racist and a bigot when all im actually saying is the truth.Now heres one HILARIOUS post from her,I dont even have to describe why this is funny serious check this one out

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Her - "Islam is choc full of hypocrisy, ...... It's basically nonsense, so it's no surprise you get mentally twisted people arising from it. Likewise christianity, so much hate and acts of terrorism coming from there too. What planet do you live on? See you in the big bad world were people have different ideas from you and you may have to get along with them. There's so much belief bashing going on on social networks it's sickening. Substitute the word Jew with Christian and we'd be right back in the 1930's. How proud your parents must be.

Me - "Its not hateful or disrespectful...its an honest opinion...theres no need for you to get nasty with me personally,ok....So you really think christianity has never been responsible for acts of terrorism etc..?? what about the crusades?. the sapish inquisition?..even closer to home what about the christian brothers raping little boys? or the magdeline laundries?....Religion is harmful. Calling me a bigot is unfair and a bit stupid..Im an athiest...an anti-thiest.. theres a big difference

---

As you can see shes trying to put words into my mouth(in facebook form),she kept saying that I hate people and so on although I never once mentioned the word hate.
The girl then un-friended me,seriously like.I wish I could post up the whole conversation but there a lot of responses and some of them are quite long.

SO..This morning I learned that that some not very religious people can get just as annoyingly defensive when you question the very existense of religion.Even calling me bigoted and other such nasty things.any of you guys ever been in a situation like this?

Dades

sockmo wrote: »

SO..This morning I learned that that some not very religious people can get just as annoyingly defensive when you question the very existense of religion.Even calling me bigoted and other such nasty things.any of you guys ever been in a situation like this?

This happens ALL THE TIME here.

You only need to look at this thread on the front page of this forum to see it. You'll see a familiar topic.

Even non-believers get hot under the collar at sacred cows being questioned in a dedicated internet forum.

Hotblack Desiato

Oops. Posted in wrong thread

Galvasean

Your friend sounds like a bit of an overreacting drama queen TBH.

wonderfulname

I'd block you both if that came up on my feed... You're not innocent in that by a long shot, not as bad as her by any means but you certainly provoked that level of discussion.

jank

sockmo wrote: »

SO..This morning I learned that that some not very religious people can get just as annoyingly defensive when you question the very existense of religion.Even calling me bigoted and other such nasty things.any of you guys ever been in a situation like this?

Stupid Facebook status update will attract that type of attention. In fairness if you are going to post such a provocative post on facebook why are you so "surprised" that you get such a reaction?

im invisible

Arrogant atheist strikes again.

Why do you people feel the need to...
Ah nevermind, good night

pwurple

Very provocative facebook post OP, unless of course you know that the belief of everyone on your facebook is the same as yours... Swearing with annoyance that someone even dares to has a strong faith is obviously going to be insulting to a lot of people. Interesting to see someone called you on it. Most people roll their eyes at religious or anti-religious posts and carry on.

Rev Hellfire

Don't you just hate it when you post something looking for a reaction and you get it.

you post comments like that, that's what you get
she sounds a bit crazy

jank

jank wrote: »

Stupid Facebook status update will attract that type of attention. In fairness if you are going to post such a provocative post on facebook why are you so "surprised" that you get such a reaction?

Exactly.

Trolling your own Facebook page. Clever indeed.

TwoShedsJackson

My original status- "Katie Taylor- " God is my shield and my strength" yes,because make believe fairies in the sky have a lot to do with influencing the outcome of boxing matches.**** sake

You could probably have made your point/shown your opinion without usnig the very very tired 'magical sky fairy' line. It's been done to death and it will just get believers on the defensive, automatically precluding whatever miniscule chance there was of a dialogue.

sockmo

Galvasean wrote: »

Your friend sounds like a bit of an overreacting drama queen TBH.

Agreed but it makes you wonder why such vitriol in her responses?.Very defensive even though I'm pretty sure she is a non-believer,its weird. I think it comes down to the fact she was raused in the catholic tradition and she seems to be confusing religion with moral values. But implying that christianity is not responsible for any atrocities at all it the funniest part.LOL

sockmo

Haha, have to laugh at some of these responses.Sound guys.

johnfás

You sound like a pair of drama queens to be perfectly honest. You need something more substantive to occupy yourself with during the long summer months obviously.

You posted an intentionally provocative comment and your mate, you is presumably a kindred spirit to yourself, replied equally proactively.

Standman

That whole exchange was very juvenile.

Turtwig

Standman wrote: »

That whole exchange was very juvenile.

I don't know, the grammar seemed good and the posts were fairly legible.

Jernal

Jernal wrote: »

I don't know, the grammar seemed good and the posts were fairly legible.

Even "upsurd"?

sockmo

jank wrote: »

Stupid Facebook status update will attract that type of attention. In fairness if you are going to post such a provocative post on facebook why are you so "surprised" that you get such a reaction?

Well most my friends on facebook are my like-minded mates. As I said the post wasnt provocative as Im not facebook friends with any christian people that I know of anyway so who's going to get offended?,obviously this person did. if you read the original one I said it was meant to be funny,my friends know I crack jokes about that kind of thing all the time..and I wasnt looking for a reaction, you cant say such things when you dont even know me man.I know youd love to believe I am an arrogant athiest attention seeker, its not like that at all.So shut the hell up with your attempts at witty replies to this thread,its not clever, your just hiding behind a laptop,calling me arrogant and stuff.And to the guy who came up with the "Trolling my own facebook page" thing?, thats not even funny.If you want to post something try make it relevent to the topic "Religious discussion with agnostics can be just as bad"

Oh and I used the "magic fairy in the sky" line before it was mainstream.haha...so there are hipster atheists now? Cop on will ya

Turtwig

bluewolf wrote: »

Even "upsurd"?

Well, I didn't say it was perfect. Honestly, I don't know why but the ellipsis bothered me more. I hate overused ellipsis, don't know why either. Ellipsisphobic or something I guess.

Jernal

Jernal wrote: »

Well, I didn't say it was perfect. Honestly, I don't know why but the ellipsis bothered me more. I hate overused ellipsis, don't know why either. Ellipsisphobic or something I guess.

Plural is ellipses, if you were going for that
Yes, they bother me as well, just turn me off reading a text at all

magicbastarder

here's a question; would you give out about people posting religious status updates?
my christian friends don't post religious updates, and i don't post overtly atheist ones.

Turtwig

bluewolf wrote: »

Plural is ellipses, if you were going for that
Yes, they bother me as well, just turn me off reading a text at all

wonderfulname

sockmo wrote: »

[Well most my friends on facebook are my like-minded mates. As I said the post wasnt provocative as Im not facebook friends with any christian people that I know of anyway so who's going to get offended?

If you're going to use demeaning language towards a group of people on a public platform someone is going to call you out, regardless of whether or not they're part of it. And yes, referring openly to "sky fairies" fits the bill there.

dulpit

Atheists posting atheist comments is the exact same as religious people posting religious comments imo.

As already stated, you went looking for a reaction and got one...

As a non-believer, the die-hard atheists are as bad as the die-hard believers... Just saying...

sockmo

What demeaning language? Katie Taylor credited her win to God. I found this silly so shared it on facebook..just an observation.

Oh and apologies to the grammar Nazi's.Should have expected snobbery on here.

magicbastarder

i have yet to see her credit her win to god. i saw her saying something along the lines of 'thanks to god, without whom i wouldn't be here', which is something else entirely.

that said, i don't like boxing so haven't been following much of the commentary.
anyway, atheists giving out about this are only going to come across as mean spirited. if you believe in a god who created you, of course you're going to mention it.

sockmo

It's important that I mention I never post Athiest posts on facebook..this was just an observation.I dont like to push my views on people.

seamus

sockmo wrote: »

Should have expected snobbery on here.

With your winning style of open and friendly discourse, I'm shocked that someone would have a go at you on facebook.

"Katie Taylor- " God is my shield and my strength" yes,because make believe fairies in the sky have a lot to do with influencing the outcome of boxing matches.**** sake

If you can't see how that would be inflammatory and wind someone else up, then I'd be concerned.

Here's the exact same status, but said in a way that like will have nobody going mad at you:

Well done Katie, great win. Though I'm a little sad for her that she can't take full credit for all of the hard effort she's put in and instead believes that God did the work for her

In short, if you post demeaning things on facebook, people will take issue, even if they agree with you.
Don't be surprised when you find yourself silently being defriended for it.

I avoid posting anything on facebook which appears like an athiest "slogan". News stories, funny pictures taking the mick out of religion are fine. But things which come across as anti-religious rants for the sake of it, are not thing that most other people want to hear, any more than they want to hear pro-religious rants on facebook. If I had someone posting religious propaganda on facebook, I would remove them. So I would expect the same if I were to post anti-religious messages.

Dades

sockmo wrote: »

What demeaning language? Katie Taylor credited her win to God. I found this silly so shared it on facebook..just an observation.

Here's the interesting thing - many of us here have the same view of you regarding about thanking an invisible deity for the results of all your own blood, sweat and tears.

But Facebook is not the place to air such things as you really don't know how people will take it (how many "friends" do you have?)

Instead, that is why we have forums like A&A. Here you can air your minor grievances relating to matters or public displays of faith without fear of being lambasted for being insensitive, militant, arrogant or... oh, wait. Nevermind.

sockmo

Ok I understand, but I wasnt trying to start a discussion, if I was then maybe I would have used more appropriate language.

Northclare

I use facebook for catching up with friends,it's good for that kind of thing.

Best thing now is to delete those posts,you don't need everyone else seeing that rant and sure we all have rock bottoms on facebook lol

Don't worry about it enjoy your weekend

Galvasean

sockmo wrote: »

Agreed but it makes you wonder why such vitriol in her responses?

On reflection I have to agree with this:

TwoShedsJackson wrote: »

You could probably have made your point/shown your opinion without usnig the very very tired 'magical sky fairy' line. It's been done to death and it will just get believers on the defensive, automatically precluding whatever miniscule chance there was of a dialogue.

Referring to God as a 'sky fairy' is needlessly provocative and will make you look like you're itching for a fight.
Still though, it's hardly a "hate filled rant".

sockmo

I agree. It was a bit stupid of me to post it in the first place,but the point is that in the resulting debate I was called prejudiced,bigoted and racist. Hardly fair at all really.

Lesson learned anyway.Don't post religious opinions on FB cos it's not worth the hassle.

sockmo

Northclare wrote: »

I use facebook for catching up with friends,it's good for that kind of thing.

Best thing now is to delete those posts,you don't need everyone else seeing that rant and sure we all have rock bottoms on facebook lol

Don't worry about it enjoy your weekend

Yeah I deleted it this morning, too many people were getting involved, a lot were "on my side" but it was kind of getting out of hand,personal insults being thrown around an so on,

wonderfulname

sockmo wrote: »

I agree. It was a bit stupid of me to post it in the first place,but the point is that in the resulting debate I was called prejudiced,bigoted and racist. Hardly fair at all really.

Lesson learned anyway.Don't post religious opinions on FB cos it's not worth the hassle.

That's not the lesson at all, the lesson is choose your words, had you put it better it would have come across a valid opinion, but you used language which convayed you felt, at the very least, a wee bit condacending towards people of faith. The response was idiotic, over the top, and I suppose if you insist unfair, but you can see where it came from.

18AD

Your point is possibly invalid anyway. It does.

"Katie Taylor- " God is my shield and my strength" yes,because make believe fairies in the sky have a lot to do with influencing the outcome of boxing matches.**** sake

Keep your fingers crossed!: how superstition improves performance.

Who knows.

Feathers

sockmo wrote: »

Agreed but it makes you wonder why such vitriol in her responses?.Very defensive even though I'm pretty sure she is a non-believer,its weird. I think it comes down to the fact she was raused in the catholic tradition

It's not that weird, is it? If you made sarcastic comments about gay people or disabled people, I'm sure you'd have people call you on it who were neither gay nor disabled.

sockmo

Those are 2 totally different situations.We all know gay and disabled people EXIST,and its quite obvious that if somebody were to slag off gay people or the disabled that would be a bona-fide case of them being prejudiced, bigoted,being an asshole basically.

Feathers

sockmo wrote: »

Those are 2 totally different situations.We all know gay and disabled people EXIST,and its quite obvious that if somebody were to slag off gay people or the disabled that would be a bona-fide case of them being prejudiced, bigoted,being an asshole basically.

We all know religious people exist too My point was that you're saying someone would be an asshole for slagging off gay or disabled people without (I'm presuming) being either yourself, but you're surprised that someone would defend a religious person without being religious themselves — don't think it's that weird.