NCT is a load of Sh!te

tomas byrne

Yesterday i when for my nct for the FOURTH time and failed again!!!
In late June I brought the car in to get it tested but it failed on tires, shocks, break pipes and 3 brake hoses. I Quickly fixed it up and brought it back for the retest and it failed again, this time on the fourth brake hose, the one that passed the first time.I was p!ssed off at this and asked why it wasn't spotted the first time and the guy said it could have just worn in a past few weeks i was driving it which is impossible because I drove it 55kms since the first nct.
On the 24th of July I went for my third test, my second retest but i had to change test center because I took the first test date i got as to get in before my 28 days were up.All the brake hoses passed but the imbalance in the rear brakes was greater than the 30% limit. It was 63%. the last time the car was tested it was 21% and I had only driven the car about 40kms between the 2 tests. I drove it home, change the hose and drove it back for the third test a week later. Surely that short trip wouldn't have caused the brakes to decline so much?
I brought the car to a mechanic and he told me one of the break cylinders were rotten and had to be replaced. He showed me the old cylinder and when he squeezed it rust water poured out of it and the seal had rotted off. I cant understand how that passed the first 2 ncts.
Yesterday I Brought the car for a full test again and it failed yet again. The tester told me first that it is 100% mechanically sound, engine is perfect, brakes are perfect but there's some rust. There was rust everywhere. I found a small bit before on the inside of the door but what he showed me was worse. The 2 front and rear columns had primary rust, the drives door and boot lid had secondary rust and the floor n the passengers side had rusted so bad that the rails under the seat had come lose. Now I have to get the rust welded which will cost more money but also the heat will cause the paint to blister and bubble which will then need a respray!!
I asked the tested why wasn't this spotted before if its so bad but he didnt really answer me. If it was spotted the first time they could have saved me hundreds on parts and mechanics and tests.
So far I have spent 166 euro on ncts, 250 on new tires, 200 on labor, 100 on shocks, 120 on brake pipes and hoses and now I Dont know what to do about the rust. It will cost the lot to fix it but if I scrap the car all the money I've put into it will be wasted. At least if the nct crowd done their job in the first place and found the everything in the first test I could have got rid of the car and saved myself a lot of time and money.
Also if I had to have passed any of the first 3 tests then I would not have known haw dangerous the rust is and would be driving around in a "safe" car!!
In my option the nct is a money racket and they got enough money out of me.
has anyone else had an experience like this? Or does anyone know how I can appeal it? Or would I be wasting my time?

Jimbob 83

Personally i think it's a great system and it keeps unroadworthy cars off the road.

Unless you are very attached to your car i would scrap it after selling whatever is worth money partwise and investing 1000-1500 on a new car. Im selling my 2002 1.4 Skoda Octavia in the next few weeks 2 months tax nct till next feb (gonna run it through nct to get a full year anyway next week) and i would be suprised if i got more than 1,100 for her

Just an idea of what's out there for the money, buyers market atm

andyseadog

ok, so the NCT is a money making racket for point out potentially dangerous faults with your cars brakes, tyres and weaknesses in its chassis?

makes sense.

i bet your the same person who never gets their car serviced. ever.

i really feel if a correct repair was done to the car after the first NCT fail had occured that all this messing could have been saved, but i get the vibe (but could be totally wrong) that you brought it to a "cowboy" for repairs.

as for the rust not being spotted, thats just unlucky. not entirely fair it wasnt spotted first time, but there's not much you can do. if the car is more than a few years old i'd cut my losses on it right now.

Daniel S

You're supposed to bring it to a mechanic first to find out what needs to be done. It's not a money racket, it's a way of keeping cars in that condition off the road.

Also, you'll probably get very few reponses as nobody wants to read that block of text.

colm_mcm

Gather up all your test reports and make a complaint.

Heroditas

Daniel S wrote: »

You're supposed to bring it to a mechanic first to find out what needs to be done.

Why would anyone do that?
Isn't the purpose of the NCT to find what is wrong with your car and THEN you go and get a mechanic to fix it for you?

Daniel S

Heroditas wrote: »

Why would anyone do that?
Isn't the purpose of the NCT to find what is wrong with your car and THEN you go and get a mechanic to fix it for you?

Saves you having to do a retest. Garages around where I live offer pre-test inspections.

Jimbob 83

Heroditas wrote: »

Why would anyone do that?
Isn't the purpose of the NCT to find what is wrong with your car and THEN you go and get a mechanic to fix it for you?

This is what i do tbh

piston

They always seem to miss things in my experience.

I know someone who had a Citreon BX which failed repeatedly on handrake, giving no reading at all despite the heandbrake seemingly working fine and several mechanics checking it. Turned out they had been testing it on the back wheels when it actually works on the front wheels on older Citreons....

Daniel S

Daniel S wrote: »

Saves you having to do a retest. Garages around where I live offer pre-test inspections.

which are no guarantee at all

dar83

Jimbob 83 wrote: »

This is what i do tbh

That's what most people do, but it's not the actual purpose of the NCT. It is NOT a diagnosis centre, hence why with different testers notice different things become apparent and potential failures, as the OP has found out.

The best thing to do is maintain your car to a high standard yourself and get it serviced regularly and on schedule. Chances are then that you will pass the NCT first time every time. I've only NCT'd a car twice in my life so far, both times it passed first time and I was even told it was a lovely car and in great condition both times.

(I've just completely jinxed myself now for my next NCT, haven't I? )

kildare.17hmr

Daniel S wrote: »

Saves you having to do a retest. Garages around where I live offer pre-test inspections.

and charge you more than the price of the retest to check it over! That makes perfect sense

BostonB

I thought they can't fail you on something new in a retest? Did that rule change?

Seems like that car needed a lot of work. I think you needed to get a GOOD mechanic to go over the whole car before going to the NCT with a car that bad.

kirving

Yeah, and the NCT will tell you what's wrong with it for less money than a mechanic will!

I think the following would apply to what happenned. Mechanics, correct me if this is wrong.
If one brake hose was damaged, and another was fine, there would be an imbalance there. This imbalance could be masked by also having one dodgy piston on the opposite side. If you change one of the damaged items, you'll notice the imbalance.

dar83

I know a few garages that offer free pre-NCT inspections, but in saying that only one of them I would trust to be genuine in the list of things they would come back to you with for fixing to Pass.

The others would probably sell you the guts of a new car to "guarantee a pass". :rolleyes:

haulagebasher

From your description of all the things wrong, it sounds like it is your car thats the load of sh!te!!!!Seriously though, when changing brake pipes you should really do all of them at once as if one or two are perished, cahnces are the rest are not far behind.Why your brakes showed two completely different imbalance results though is an odd thing.

working fool

Well if you changed brake pipes the complete system would have to be drained and refilled a re-bled.
So whoever done the work dident do it properly and I can see why they retested the brakes on the retest .
The rust on the other hand you deffo have a case there

ShadowHearth

Jimbob 83 wrote: »

Personally i think it's a great system and it keeps unroadworthy cars off the road.

Unless you are very attached to your car i would scrap it after selling whatever is worth money partwise and investing 1000-1500 on a new car. Im selling my 2002 1.4 Skoda Octavia in the next few weeks 2 months tax nct till next feb (gonna run it through nct to get a full year anyway next week) and i would be suprised if i got more than 1,100 for her

Just an idea of what's out there for the money, buyers market atm

its a great system if it would work properly, if the first fella would have spotted all that stuff and bring it to the OP, he might have not gone with all the fixing. Now OP is in a limbo, he spent so much money already and he needs to sink even more and hope it will pass or scrap it and take his losses.

Jimbob 83

OP knew of the issues himself i will bet and hoped he could get it through the test, which is the attitude of alot of people out there.

Sorry it doesn't work that way

listermint

Theres an entirely reasonable solution to this.

if everyone just serviced and maintained their vehicle when it was due to be done then it would be perfect.

Like mine i know going in that its going to pass. the only worry i have is how long its taking out of my day.

washman3

dar83 wrote: »

I've only NCT'd a car twice in my life so far, both times it passed first time and I was even told it was a lovely car and in great condition both times.

(I've just completely jinxed myself now for my next NCT, haven't I? )

Lucky you..!!! driving on lovely, pot-hole free Dublin roads. Try driving on West Galway on North Donegal roads for a while. they might not be so quick to praise your "lovely car in great condition" then.
The testers were probably delighted the underside of your car was so clean and they did'nt get dirty.

Guy:Incognito

kildare.17hmr wrote: »

Daniel S wrote: »

Saves you having to do a retest. Garages around where I live offer pre-test inspections.

and charge you more than the price of the retest to check it over! That makes perfect sense

Not when you end up doing 3 retests . :-)

mullingar

Why do people treat the NCT as a leaving cert for their car??? You have as many repeats as you like!

For €50, it is the cheapest safety once-over your car could EVER get, to get a Indy/Dealer to give the same level of checks with the same test equipment, it will cost >€100, then they will replace what THEY think might fail and it gives ZERO guarantee that the car will pass.

So what if you fail once or twice.

The CHEAPEST thing to do is to put your car through the NCT (check oil/air pressure first) and THEN get what needs fixing fixed within 28 days and it could be something that YOU could easily fix yourself (eg bulbs) or it could just be x1 tyre that needs replacing.

There is a good chance that your car will NOT need to go to your mechanic afterwards, if it does you know EXACTLY what needs fixing, not what THEY think needs replacing.

/rant over....

ShadowHearth

OSI wrote: »

True, but honestly, if you had a car in front of you that already had enough faults to guarantee it was going to fail, how hard you are you going to try at spotting other faults?

Judging by the OP, they didn't really put much effort into checking the car before hand. If I was a tester and came across a car that the person clearly hadn't bothered spending more than few seconds looking over, I wouldn't be breaking my back bothering to find an extensive list of faults.

things is if you got such car, you would still go to nct and see how bad it is to make up your mind. if its worth saving or worth scraping.
that really does not work here as testers just might not look at it properly these days.

Guy:Incognito

The cheapest way to keep your car on the road is not the best way to do it .

Preventative maintenance. Don't think that phrase has made it here yet though.

Mycroft H

piston wrote: »

They always seem to miss things in my experience.

I know someone who had a Citreon BX which failed repeatedly on handrake, giving no reading at all despite the heandbrake seemingly working fine and several mechanics checking it. Turned out they had been testing it on the back wheels when it actually works on the front wheels on older Citreons....

My Xantia failed on the same issue. They wouldn't believe that it worked on the front wheels and I had the manager look at me apply the handbrake in the car park and they very clearly worked. It was quickly redone on the rollers and I was quickly handed my cert.


Similar incident with my starlet a few years back. Apparently it has a mechanical airbag and the light will only come on if there is a malfunction with the airbag (contrary to electronic airbags with a self test at ignition) and it failed because the "airbag light" wouldn't come on (as it shouldn't).

Again, a speaking to the manager was needed and apparently Toyota Ireland sent a memo to NCTS about 10 years ago explaining the situation.

NCT. A great idea in theory but in practice they are far from competent.

MrFrisp

As a matter of interest..

At the moment,Fastfit are running an offer where if you get your car checked over by them,,and they say it will pass,,,,,but if it fails,,they will pay for your re-test.

Now,,not everyone would trust Fastfit,,and they are not offering to fix your car for free or anything..

But,,not a bad offer all the same.

http://www.fastfit.ie/






.

Heroditas

MrFrisp wrote: »

As a matter of interest..

At the moment,Fastfit are running an offer where if you get your car checked over by them,,and they say it will pass,,,,,but if it fails,,they will pay for your re-test.

Now,,not everyone would trust Fastfit,,and they are not offering to fix your car for free or anything..

But,,not a bad offer all the same.

http://www.fastfit.ie/



.

It would be better if they paid to "fix" all the stuff that gets missed by them and subsequently turns up in the NCT as faulty.

tin79

The most recent test was a full test according to the OP (assuming it was outside the re-test period) so everything was tested again.

The first tested must have missed the rust and then the proper re-tests would not have looked for it.

The new tester on the latest full test must have had a keener eye.

Jarren

Nah

They usually ring you and tell you that this and that needs to be repaired/replaced even if this is not a case.

The right thing to do is to get NCT sheet and get a decent Indy to have a look at the issues with a car .

Tea 1000

mullingar wrote: »

Why do people treat the NCT as a leaving cert for their car??? You have as many repeats as you like!

For €50, it is the cheapest safety once-over your car could EVER get, to get a Indy/Dealer to give the same level of checks with the same test equipment, it will cost >€100, then they will replace what THEY think might fail and it gives ZERO guarantee that the car will pass.

So what if you fail once or twice.

The CHEAPEST thing to do is to put your car through the NCT (check oil/air pressure first) and THEN get what needs fixing fixed within 28 days and it could be something that YOU could easily fix yourself (eg bulbs) or it could just be x1 tyre that needs replacing.

There is a good chance that your car will NOT need to go to your mechanic afterwards, if it does you know EXACTLY what needs fixing, not what THEY think needs replacing.

/rant over....

This here is the problem to be honest. The NCT tests the safety features of the car to a certain extent (often not very well). People think it's a full and comprehensive health check for your car, and if it passes the NCT it's a sound car.
That's not the case. The bags of crap that pass the NCT is shocking. You could buy a car, never service it for 100k miles, and if it's still running somehow, it will probably pass the NCT so long as you have some tread on an E marked plastic tyre and the brakes are somewhat effective.
A properly looked after car is not one that is just checked by the NCT folk every 2 years and whatever they highlight fixed.

L-M

The fact that the car could go through three tests presumably with different testers and rust of that severity could not be spotted is an absolute and utter farce and would have saved the OP wasting money on the car had it been spotted in the first place.

OP, do as Colm said, gather up all of your failure sheets etc. and make a complaint.

dar83

washman3 wrote: »

Lucky you..!!! driving on lovely, pot-hole free Dublin roads. Try driving on West Galway on North Donegal roads for a while. they might not be so quick to praise your "lovely car in great condition" then.
The testers were probably delighted the underside of your car was so clean and they did'nt get dirty.

Yes I'm quite the fancy Dan over here driving on my roads paved with gold! :P

God forbid I might have driven anywhere in the country during the year (or two) since my last NCT.

I clean the car prior to an NCT and that includes the underbody, as a common courtesy. Now if it gets slightly dirty on my way to the centre because of the roads then so be it, but I don't let a years worth of crap sit under it and let them "get dirty" because of it.

Maybe attitude has something to do with the hassle I have yet to receive in an NCT test centre?

Guy:Incognito

Limerick man wrote: »

The fact that the car could go through three tests presumably with different testers and rust of that severity could not be spotted is an absolute and utter farce and would have saved the OP wasting money on the car had it been spotted in the first place.

OP, do as Colm said, gather up all of your failure sheets etc. and make a complaint.

As was already said. A retest will only check what failed last time so if the rust wasn't spotted in the initial test it won't be looked at until another full test is done.

tomas byrne

i brought the car to a garage and the mechanic said to nct it and get a full list of what's wrong with it which i did and then i brought the car and fail sheet back to him and he fixed everything on the list but it failed again and again on the brakes but what really pissed me off is that when every thing was working as it should they failed me on the rust which they should have pointed out the first time since it is so serve!! and if they pointed out the rust along with everything else i would have scraped the car and got another one but now I've pumped hundreds in and now i have to pump in another couple of hundred, maybe thousand which i haven't got!!
and my other argument is that if it had to of passed the first retest the rust would never have been mentioned which is scary because if i had an accident it wouldn't offer much protection.

dr.fuzzenstein

Daniel S wrote: »

Saves you having to do a retest. Garages around where I live offer pre-test inspections.

And then they tell you you will need new brake pads, discs, shocks, brake pipes, exhaust system, master cylinder, engine, etc...
Bringing your car to a garage and saying "get it ready for the NCT" is like cutting yourself all over, till you're nice and soaked in blood and then jump into a shark pool.

OP:
Don't blame the NCT if your car is a shed. Scrap it and be glad they found out it was a death-trap before you did.
NCT, the system works!

goz83

tomas byrne wrote: »

i would have scraped the car and got another one

Why would you scrape it?

BostonB

washman3 wrote: »

Lucky you..!!! driving on lovely, pot-hole free Dublin roads. Try driving on West Galway on North Donegal roads for a while. they might not be so quick to praise your "lovely car in great condition" then.
The testers were probably delighted the underside of your car was so clean and they did'nt get dirty.

Pot holes vs endless speed ramps and potholes.

Jimbob 83

Went for a good drive today had to dodge like 20 sods of turf on various corners, hit one square on with my front left wheel, left 2-3 small scrapes on the lower bumper on that side, ironically i only hit it as i was steering around a pothole

Irish roads

BostonB

Personally I treat the NCT as something I have to get to be legal on the road. But entirely seperate to normal servicing and maintainance to keep the care in good condition and safe.

Capt'n Midnight

http://www.irishexaminer.com/archives/2012/0808/ireland/half-of-all-cars-fail-nct-the-first-time-around-203385.html

Figures show that 2,349 or 0.4% of vehicles tested failed the NCT as they did not meet basic safety standards.

Nearly 300,000 vehicles — more than half tested between January and July — failed the test the first time.

However, 90% of vehicles which retook the test passed.

Conor Faughnan of AA Roadwatch said the figures were "not alarming", as the number of unroadworthy cars was quite low.

"We are not too alarmed about the figures. While half of vehicles checked the first time around failed, 90% of rechecks passed. It seems as though people are using the NCT as a diagnostic to see if their vehicle needs servicing or not, which is understandable.

Does any garage offer a deal to get your car through the NCT ?
ie. you drop the car in, they look at it and tell you how much it will cost to pass the test. And then IF you pay that amount they will do the work , put it into the test and retests as needed OR had you back what you've paid them if car is beyond economic repair.


Tests are yearly now for cars over 10 years old which will help catch stuff people have been avoiding.


Another way of doing it is to get the NCT first and then get a service, to swap out all the fluids and filters n' stuff. The bad news is that the garage knows it's work won't be tested, but the good news is that it might be a little harder to sell you snake oil.



Anyway if you are doing a NCT download the manual from the web site and have a once-over of the car. Lights / Bulbs / Rust - use a mirror on a stick / locks / seat belts. Also ask advice about any funny noises your car is making lately. - if not mechanically minded then yeah you will need to let someone else look at the car from time to time



suppose the main thing to worry about if you want to keep the car going is getting the timing belt serviced at (or before if doing city driving) the correct intervals.

166man

Sounds like you just bought a sh1t car OP.

dr.fuzzenstein

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

http://www.irishexaminer.com/archives/2012/0808/ireland/half-of-all-cars-fail-nct-the-first-time-around-203385.html

Does any garage offer a deal to get your car through the NCT ?
ie. you drop the car in, they look at it and tell you how much it will cost to pass the test. And then IF you pay that amount they will do the work , put it into the test and retests as needed OR had you back what you've paid them if car is beyond economic repair.

I'd budget E2k for that.
Just keep the car serviced and besides that, fix whatever fails the test.
If you drop your car in and say "Get it through the NCT", the garage will smell someone who doesn't know anything about cars, never services it and won't question a massive bill.

BostonB

If you maintain your car properly the nct isn't an issue. If you find the nct a problem then perhaps your car shouldn't be on the road.

decmanning

i once failed my nct because the rubber on the accelerator peddle was too worn, the tester said if i came back within 28 days with a rubber on the accelerator that was up to standard that i would be passed, felt a bit smart so what i did the next day was just switch the cluth and accelerator rubber and brought it back, the tester came out and said the rubber on the cluthch peddle is worn, i informed him that i was told that if i came back within 28 days with a suitable rubber on the accelerator then i would be passed and that nothing was ever mentioned about the clutch peddle, i showed him the letter i had to this effect from the nct (was basically just the letter they give you when you fail which tells you why you failed) he looked at me funny, said he needed to check something and 10 minutes later came back to tell me i had passed morale of the story, the NCT is a joke, needs to be made a lot more comprehensive

andyseadog

When my Vectra failed its NCT earlier this year on a leaking rear shock, i jacked the car up, degreased the shock, gave a blast of wd40 and a clean and wrote "04 vectra" on it in tip ex and it passed the re-test.

dont know what the moral is to that, but since we're telling stories now

decmanning

sure nothing like a good story

dr.fuzzenstein

decmanning wrote: »

i once failed my nct because the rubber on the accelerator peddle was too worn, the tester said if i came back within 28 days with a rubber on the accelerator that was up to standard that i would be passed, felt a bit smart so what i did the next day was just switch the cluth and accelerator rubber and brought it back, the tester came out and said the rubber on the cluthch peddle is worn, i informed him that i was told that if i came back within 28 days with a suitable rubber on the accelerator then i would be passed and that nothing was ever mentioned about the clutch peddle, i showed him the letter i had to this effect from the nct (was basically just the letter they give you when you fail which tells you why you failed) he looked at me funny, said he needed to check something and 10 minutes later came back to tell me i had passed morale of the story, the NCT is a joke, needs to be made a lot more comprehensive

So they pointed out an actual safety hazard to you and you decided to take the piss and pass on a technicality by exploiting a loophole and the problem is probably still not fixed.
The thing is, it's no skin of the tester's nose if you slip off the clutch and cause an accident, he has done his job.
Surely if the tester refused to pass you until you had all rubbers sorted out, you would have started your own "NCT is a load of sh*te"thread.
It's jokers like you that will eventually force a full retest (at the same cost as the original test) on every fail, no matter what is wrong with the car.
That comprehensive enough?

The NCT may not be perfect, but when I got here in the 90's, every car had cracked headlights, cracked windscreen, wobbly wheels, lights shining straight up, things growing under the seat, almost always a mirror missing, the only things that kept those cars going was Padre Pio and holy water.

decmanning

No you idiot, if the he refused to pass me i would have said fair enough, i have a dodgy rubber on my clutch now and would have gone and gotten if fixed, my point is that he didnt fail me, my point is how easy it can be to get around the nct, my point is why have an nct at all if there are such big loopholes?? if you are going to enforce it then enforce it correctly, not half heartly
"The thing is, it's no skin of the tester's nose if you slip off the clutch and cause an accident, he has done his job"
is this the morals of the nct staff?? as long as i have done my job so what?? so what if i see a blatent fault, i'll just ignore it because ive done my job
Well i find this quiet stupid if that is the case

slimjimmc

decmanning wrote: »

i once failed my nct because the rubber on the accelerator peddle was too worn, the tester said if i came back within 28 days with a rubber on the accelerator that was up to standard that i would be passed, felt a bit smart so what i did the next day was just switch the cluth and accelerator rubber and brought it back, the tester came out and said the rubber on the cluthch peddle is worn, i informed him that i was told that if i came back within 28 days with a suitable rubber on the accelerator then i would be passed and that nothing was ever mentioned about the clutch peddle, i showed him the letter i had to this effect from the nct (was basically just the letter they give you when you fail which tells you why you failed) he looked at me funny, said he needed to check something and 10 minutes later came back to tell me i had passed morale of the story, the NCT is a joke, needs to be made a lot more comprehensive

I doubt that.
a) because the NCT don't check for an anti-slip device (rubber pad) on the accelerator pedal, only requirement is on the clutch and foot-brake.
b) what cars have a rubber anti-slip pad on the accelerator anyway?

Are you confusing your go pedal and stop pedal :eek: :P?

andyseadog

decmanning wrote: »

"The thing is, it's no skin of the tester's nose if you slip off the clutch and cause an accident, he has done his job"
is this the morals of the nct staff?? as long as i have done my job so what?? so what if i see a blatent fault, i'll just ignore it because ive done my job
Well i find this quiet stupid if that is the case

No, the NCT worker just isn't your guardian and his job is to advise you.

he advised you and thats all he's paid to do, he has no interest in you nor does he care about you and if you chose to disregard his advice, he still gets paid, so in answer to your rant. i dont think the inspectors "care".

hope your not behind me, or letting someone i know cross the road on a wet day with a bare metal pedal. lunacy for the sake of a fecking fiver.