Farmers Avoiding Tax?

kevthegaff

I was just hearing about people on newstalk giving out about how farmers are avoiding tax through purchases of tractors, buildings etc. I knew farmers would be the next inline from attacks about incomes:mad:

lakill Farm

buying tractors and building sheds is as essential to a farmer as the transit van :rolleyes:.

Min

You cannot account for stupid people who believe these myths.

Maybe they want builders out of business, maybe they want machinery sellers out of business and have even less tax coming into revenue.

We are told people are not spending and how it is bad for the economy, when they do in farming, the economic argument is turned 180 degrees to make out it is tax avoidance.

Hello, do these other business that have received the farmer's money not pay tax???
We all know we pay tax but you cannot account for people being ignorant of economics.
Farmers spending is good for the economy, not bad...

reilig

kevthegaff wrote: »

I was just hearing about people on newstalk giving out about how farmers are avoiding tax through purchases of tractors, buildings etc. I knew farmers would be the next inline from attacks about incomes:mad:

Every other business in the country is avoiding tax also when they invest in equipment, machines, vehicles etc.

This is just some have a go hero who feels that its his turn to have a go at farmers today!!!

bob charles

everyone avoids tax, if you don't you are an idiot, it is 100% legal. I buy a machine I need for my business, it goes down on the books as an expense. evading tax on the other hand is 100% criminal, as a guy I know found out recently and rightly so. I must send him a bunch of green bananas

tim04750

That Sh1tebag Joe Duffy had a complete moonbeam on back a few weeks ago on the same subject, now I'm all for frank and open discussion on any subject but to give national airtime to this clown was bordering on criminal, at one point he said he had heard of a farmer who was on his way home from the garage with a new car and when he came across some of his own cattle out on the road he stopped, put the cattle back in the field and parked the new car in the gap and left it there till he had time to fence , :eek: and good auld joe just let him run with it, and a little thing like a seven year spread on the tax allowance wasn't puttin' him off his stride either . no sir
A man with the IQ of an urban speed limit egged on by the morally corrupt and this is prime time radio, hmmph .

8k2q1gfcz9s5d4

kevthegaff wrote: »

I was just hearing about people on newstalk giving out about how farmers are avoiding tax through purchases of tractors, buildings etc. I knew farmers would be the next inline from attacks about incomes:mad:

Every business does this not just farmers. Its totally legal. All business are able to write off VAT against purchase of a fixed asset and deprecation of a fixed asset.

bob charles wrote: »

everyone avoids tax, if you don't you are an idiot, it is 100% legal. I buy a machine I need for my business, it goes down on the books as an expense. evading tax on the other hand is 100% criminal, as a guy I know found out recently and rightly so. I must send him a bunch of green bananas

problem is, most people dont know the difference between Tax Avoision and Tax Evasion. the 2 are very different!

red menace

Joe Duffy is an absolute disgrace of a broadcaster, the worst kind of knee jerk reactionary radio designed to to appeal to the lowest common denominator.
Every single company does something to reduce it's tax burden somehow, as well as normal PAYE workers through the rent allowance, bike to work scheme etc

8k2q1gfcz9s5d4

who listens to Joe Duffy anyway?

mikemac1

tim04750 wrote: »

That Sh1tebag Joe Duffy had a complete moonbeam on back a few weeks ago on the same subject, now I'm all for frank and open discussion on any subject but to give national airtime to this clown was bordering on criminal, at one point he said he had heard of a farmer who was on his way home from the garage with a new car and when he came across some of his own cattle out on the road he stopped, put the cattle back in the field and parked the new car in the gap and left it there till he had time to fence , :eek:

I heard that too

Apparently the farmer would be happy to buy a new car from a garage and leave it down the fields rotting away
No bother to the farmer, made of money. He could always collect it in a few weeks

How did this get on RTÉ national radio?

just do it

And there I was hoping to get a few tips on how to reduce my tax bill, instead it's a thread/ rant about Joe Duffy callers

Min

just do it wrote: »

And there I was hoping to get a few tips on how to reduce my tax bill, instead it's a thread/ rant about Joe Duffy callers

I think I am doing something wrong, I can't afford to buy a car and use it to fence a hole to avoid tax :P

Dont be daft

Peoples attitudes in general towards the farming community in this country are absolutely appalling.
There seems to be this general ignorance towards farm incomes, the purpose of subsidies, tax evasion, the list goes on.
Not to mention the mentality that farming is a backward industry run by toothless old men with baler twine holding up their jeans.

In the UK there seems to be a lot more respect for the profession. Take the recent protests because of the price of milk. Some of the retailers are bowing to public pressure with a fear of bad publicity.
In Ireland the urban population couldnt give a toss if farmers were going broke. The last time milk slipped below the cost of production here there was no concern among the retailers of bad publicity.

Juniorhurler

No different to public sector bashing, builder bashing during the boom etc.
Ignore it. When the morons get no reaction they will move onto something else.

Tora Bora

Juniorhurler wrote: »

No different to public sector bashing, builder bashing during the boom etc.
Ignore it. When the morons get no reaction they will move onto something else.

Four out of five cattle when asked, preferred Merc's in the gap, over any other brand.

Figerty

Anyone one who was ever in college know that there are farmers there spending wads of cash in the year before going to college to get the grant. I was in college with a guy who had a new jeep while in UL, he used to come in the jeep, go to college, head out to Newport or Ennis and pick a few calves, leave them in the jeep and head back home on Friday morning after lectures and he was on full grant. He wasn't doing anything illegal except working the system. Same thing applied to the shopkeepers, publicans etc.

On the other hand I was on full grant, hadn't a pot to piss in and scraping by.

Don't forget Larry Goodman, Micheal O'Leary and Richard Bruton are all farmers.... not exactly short of a few bob compared to the small farmers that the will feel the pinch on this new focus.

1chippy

Redundancy, sick pay, holiday pay all with farming, f*k it can someone tell the revenue i want to pay them another few bob, i dont know whaat to do with all the money, i havent been giving them.

bob charles

Figerty wrote: »

Don't forget Larry Goodman, Micheal O'Leary and Richard Bruton are all farmers.... not exactly short of a few bob compared to the small farmers that the will feel the pinch on this new focus.

Also don't forget that these guys provide allot of employment and business to the local community. Just because theyre big farmers doesn't mean they are making a fortune. Bet Mr O'Leary spends more farming than he ever makes

lakill Farm

bob charles wrote: »

Also don't forget that these guys provide allot of employment and business to the local community. Just because theyre big farmers doesn't mean they are making a fortune. Bet Mr O'Leary spends more farming than he ever makes

I have land taken beside M O'Learys place and its a credit to the man. His beef enterprise is profitable i bet. He doesnt run it for the fun of it. A true business man be it moving people, jockeys on his horses or AA in his annual sale. Everything pays for its keep in his place.

I would love a look around Gig-town house. The outfarms have tarmac roads :rolleyes:. Cleaner that 99% of house driveways in an urban area

Juniorhurler

lakill Farm wrote: »

I have land taken beside M O'Learys place and its a credit to the man. His beef enterprise is profitable i bet. He doesnt run it for the fun of it. A true business man be it moving people, jockeys on his horses or AA in his annual sale. Everything pays for its keep in his place.

I would love a look around Gig-town house. The outfarms have tarmac roads :rolleyes:. Cleaner that 99% of house driveways in an urban area

If this is the case I would bet his farm enterprise is not profitable TBH.

redzerologhlen

Juniorhurler wrote: »

If this is the case I would bet his farm enterprise is not profitable TBH.

Better have a tarred road than giving more to the revenue...its a never ending cycle apparently, no wonder the contry is broke with everyone spending their money so wrecklessly :rolleyes:

lakill Farm

Juniorhurler wrote: »

If this is the case I would bet his farm enterprise is not profitable TBH.

Most of the outfarms are for the horses as far as i can make out. And im not into them but i think he has had a few winners.

I do see the AA around the main house mostly.

Tarmac v concrete the price is similar i believe

Farmer Pudsey

Avoiding tax is not a crime tax evasion is. Did not hear Joe Duffy but am not suprised some of the sh##e he lets on the show is a disgrase.

Farming is a buisness where profits comes in spurts take this year because of weather and prices milk and young drystock will be under pressure. If the grain boys can harvest this year will not be a disaster. Winter Finishers will be under pressure due to grain prices so the level of farm investment will reduce.

Farmers use the exact same tax system as anyone else that is self employed. However most farmers tend to be Frugal people they tend not to waste money and tend not to spend money on personel expenditure. I have had this argument with fellow workers who go on holidays abroad every year and drive new cars. In this country at present profit seems to be a dirty word.

My answer to alot is go to a mart and see all the cars,jeeps and trucks. Accross the whole spectrum there are a lot of 8+ year old cars, worn out cattle boxes and trucks compared to the one or two new jeeps .

20silkcut

Some times farmers can be there own worse enemy for instance it can be very un-edifying to see reams of big modern 10,11,12 reg tractors ( each costing the price of a semi detached house) in tractor runs up through the centre of towns cities in this country. I think these events should be kept for vintage tractors, which are more interesting and historic anyway.

Tipp Man

20silkcut wrote: »

Some times farmers can be there own worse enemy for instance it can be very un-edifying to see reams of big modern 10,11,12 reg tractors ( each costing the price of a semi detached house) in tractor runs up through the centre of towns cities in this country. I think these events should be kept for vintage tractors, which are more interesting and historic anyway.

You make it sound like its a sin to have a relatively new tractor

Guess what it's not

Suckler

Kyleigh Some Sandblaster wrote: »

Every business does this not just farmers. Its totally legal. All business are able to write off VAT against purchase of a fixed asset and deprecation of a fixed asset.

problem is, most people dont know the difference between Tax Avoision and Tax Evasion. the 2 are very different!

+1. the issue could be quickly put to the sword with this statement. Unfortunatley a simple statement doesn't go with the hysterics on Joe duffy et al.

Suckler

20silkcut wrote: »

Some times farmers can be there own worse enemy for instance it can be very un-edifying to see reams of big modern 10,11,12 reg tractors ( each costing the price of a semi detached house) in tractor runs up through the centre of towns cities in this country. I think these events should be kept for vintage tractors, which are more interesting and historic anyway.

I find it's a case of damned if you do and damned if you don't with tractors.
Spotted with a new(ish) tractor - "look at him,another farmer loaded with money"
Spotted on the auld reliable 1970's machine - "Typical farmers going around on old dangerous machines, they should be using modern machines, not as noisey etc. etc."

snowman707

Figerty wrote: »

Anyone one who was ever in college know that there are farmers there spending wads of cash in the year before going to college to get the grant. I was in college with a guy who had a new jeep while in UL, he used to come in the jeep, go to college, head out to Newport or Ennis and pick a few calves, leave them in the jeep and head back home on Friday morning after lectures and he was on full grant. He wasn't doing anything illegal except working the system. Same thing applied to the shopkeepers, publicans etc.

On the other hand I was on full grant, hadn't a pot to piss in and scraping by.

Don't forget Larry Goodman, Micheal O'Leary and Richard Bruton are all farmers.... not exactly short of a few bob compared to the small farmers that the will feel the pinch on this new focus.

he left the calves in the jeep from Tues until Friday ? :eek:

bob charles

Figerty wrote: »

Anyone one who was ever in college know that there are farmers there spending wads of cash in the year before going to college to get the grant. I was in college with a guy who had a new jeep while in UL, he used to come in the jeep, go to college, head out to Newport or Ennis and pick a few calves, leave them in the jeep and head back home on Friday morning after lectures and he was on full grant. He wasn't doing anything illegal except working the system. Same thing applied to the shopkeepers, publicans etc.

Jasus by the sounds of it you should go on Joe with your story someday.

bob charles

lookers in can't seem to make the distinction that a tractor is an essential machine for farming just like a factory building is for manufacturing of a product. People seem to think that we enjoy sitting all day in tractors just loving the situation, far from it. Our main tractor is relatively new, cost the price of a small house nowadays and I hate being inside it, something I have to do for 3 hrs a day

reilig

Don't forget that as farmers, the majority of us are not registered for VAT unlike the majority of other businesses in the country. We are paying VAT on every product, feed stuff, services, machines, inputs etc. In this way, we contribut a lot more to state coffers than small companies who have Vat numbers and do not pay vat at all.

bob charles

reilig wrote: »

Don't forget that as farmers, the majority of us are not registered for VAT unlike the majority of other businesses in the country. We are paying VAT on every product, feed stuff, services, machines, inputs etc. In this way, we contribut a lot more to state coffers than small companies who have Vat numbers and do not pay vat at all.

For some reason I have it in my head from the last time I done a quick tot that our business would be paying well over 50k in tax before a figure for income tax. Im paying around 6k tax on fuel alone, same on machinery repayments each year. the list goes on and on

bbam

It's down to the old Asset rich problem, to the uneducated it seems farmers are worth a fortune, therefore they must be making a fortune.
At the end of the day means assessment must be on the family income from the farming enterprise, anything else is senseless.
As others have said, tax avoidance is a practice to minimise the tax bill by selective investment in the business, something all business people do.

I just knew that when the articles appeared in the journal and mainstream media about farm incomes being up so much this year, I just knew that the crosshairs would be set onto farms. Sad thing is I'd say it's just the thin edge of the wedge.

pakalasa

Kyleigh Some Sandblaster wrote: »

who listens to Joe Duffy anyway?

I did during the week and he had this woman on from CLONTARF.........:rolleyes:

Dont be daft

bbam wrote: »

It's down to the old Asset rich problem, to the uneducated it seems farmers are worth a fortune, therefore they must be making a fortune.

The Wills going to probate section of some of the Sunday broadsheets always has a few farmers with multi-million euro estates.
Always thought that this gave of a false impression to anyone who doesnt look beyond the writing in front of them.

In the end its a general ignorance shown by those outside the farming community.
Farmer bashing was and remains a national past-time among Irish broadcasters. Im told Gay Byrne was a particularly bad culprit in years gone by.
As long as the media continues this trend the public will blindly follow cos if there's one thing the Irish love its to have someone to begrudge

When farmers reinvest its seen as tax avoidance. When they dont its seen as a reluctance to modernise.
So what if I have a new jeep. It does 20,000 miles a year and 3/4 of that it has a box on the back.
So what if the tractor costs the same as terrace house. It clocks 5hrs a day and it would cost twice the repayments and running costs to get a contractor to do the work.

To tell the truth I'm sick of some of the attitudes displayed by the urban based population.

Tora Bora

Wait till Mick O Leary's kids are college age. There will be some amount of Tarmac put down the year before they start!!! -:)

bb12

it's up to farmers to choose the right spokespeople to get their point of view across to the more urban people in this country. often the spokespeople ramble off in non layman terms and people just don't understand what they're going on about.

eg. urban dwellers think that farmers are given money for nothing re: subsidies...what they don't realise is that the price of their weekly food shop would triple if there were no subsidies given to the farmers...this point is never gotten across to non farmers...and it seems that the government perpetuates this animosity between both sides....takes the focus off the inept job they're doing.

re: tax on assets and college grants...why aren't the farmer standing up and demanding that paye's workers home values are taken into account when they are means tested? i really think farmers have to get smarter and fight fire with fire these days.

KCTK

bb12 wrote: »

it's up to farmers to choose the right spokespeople to get their point of view across to the more urban people in this country. often the spokespeople ramble off in non layman terms and people just don't understand what they're going on about.

eg. urban dwellers think that farmers are given money for nothing re: subsidies...what they don't realise is that the price of their weekly food shop would triple if there were no subsidies given to the farmers...this point is never gotten across to non farmers...and it seems that the government perpetuates this animosity between both sides....takes the focus off the inept job they're doing.

re: tax on assets and college grants...why aren't the farmer standing up and demanding that paye's workers home values are taken into account when they are means tested? i really think farmers have to get smarter and fight fire with fire these days.

Totally agree, the farming representatives we usually see on the TV or hear on the radio would make you cring. Do like reps from unions etc do and have one simple point to get across when being interviewed and stick to that point no matter what comes at you. Also I would say to not always go in with story that all farmers are hard done by etc, say something like "any farmer who can afford should pay" etc, sounds more reasonable to those who don't understand farming then and swing a bit more public opinion around our way.

rancher

KCTK wrote: »

Totally agree, the farming representatives we usually see on the TV or hear on the radio would make you cring.

And you think you can do better, these representatives are farmers after all, who have farms to look after, but they are elected democratically by farmers on the ground, so you have probably insulted the judgement and intelligence of all those who voted for them in that sentence
As for PAYEs home, why should we acknowledge that any assets should de used, as IFA said on the news yesterday, eligibility for grants has to be based on income ONLY

bob charles

KCTK wrote: »

Totally agree, the farming representatives we usually see on the TV or hear on the radio would make you cring.

how true, and if you think otherwise you don't get out enough. Last time I saw the current IFA president on TV panel he was slouched in his seat and his tie have done up. FFS simple things but very important when you are trying to get your point across. Do the IFA even have a full time PR department made up of proper employees?

KCTK

rancher wrote: »

And you think you can do better, these representatives are farmers after all, who have farms to look after, but they are elected democratically by farmers on the ground, so you have probably insulted the judgement and intelligence of all those who voted for them in that sentence

This is not meant as a person attack on these reps but rather on how exactly we as farmers get portrayed in the media. Just because I am not happy with how some of our reps perform in the media does not mean I think they are not doing a good job for us in other areas (eg negotiations with Government, EU etc). It is totally unfair to expect any "normal" (non media) person to be able to go on a hostile programme and get a sympatric view across unless they have some training/coaching in the dark arts like which has obviously happened with some of the public sector union leaders (notice how Jack O Connor from SIPTU is hardly ever heard from now, because he rubbed non SIPTU people up the wrong way).

I respect the effort these people put in and very few will put themselves forward of course to do this job but that does not mean as member of these organisations we can not expect the very best representation from our leaders in every area, and any area they falling down on should be looked at and improved.

Dont be daft

rancher wrote: »

And you think you can do better, these representatives are farmers after all, who have farms to look after, but they are elected democratically by farmers on the ground, so you have probably insulted the judgement and intelligence of all those who voted for them in that sentence

I agree totally with the opinion expressed that the current IFA are a PR nightmare. However public opinion is only one tool an organisation has and I believe behind the scenes when it comes to other issues the IFA is effective.
But nevertheless I dont think anyone can argue that they have used PR well in any recent debates.

I dont think I could do better. In fact I can honestly say I couldnt do better and the reason why is because Im not a trade unionist and I have no political or PR expierence.
For those reasons I would be out of my depth and I believe the current IFA is out of its depth for similar reasons.

The fact that the IFA staff is made up of farmers is half its problem. The IFA need to look beyond the farming community if it wants to bring in the staff and expertise required for an effective PR campaign.

towzer2010

Dont be daft wrote: »

The fact that the IFA staff is made up of farmers is half its problem. The IFA need to look beyond the farming community if it wants to bring in the staff and expertise required for an effective PR campaign.

I've been saying this for a while. If a proper PR person with all the media skills was employed as the spokesperson for the IFA or other farm organisations so much more could be achieved.

I'm sure the current reps are all good honest hard working people but even I with a vested interest switch off when I hear them. You want to be able to get your point accross and if people dont want to listen to you before you even get to do that then you have a problem.

But the likes of Joe duffy is only interested in sensationalist stories. If a guy left a car in a gap for ages he wasnt doing it because he was so well off by avoiding tax, he was just an AR*EHOLE.

Wendell Gee

Lads, lads, ye are beginning to sound like the Joe Duffy brigade. The IFA staff are not farmers, for starters. Secondly the IFA have two full time staff in the press office, and they are superb at their job, trust me.
The big problem the farming community have is the complexity of the issues involved and the lack of understanding of even the basics among the Duffy's, Cooper's, Hook's and co.
Eddie Downey of IFA slayed the Labour Party chairman Colm Keaveney on RTE news yesterday on the asset inclusion for means testing re college grants issue.
Keaveney didn't even know that capital spend/depreciation cannot be used to reduce what is described as "reckonable income" when means testing.
This forum so often ends with people slagging the farm organisations, trust me, it's not half as easy as it might seem from the outside.

okiss

For the media farmers are being picked on at the moment and the builders/developers are thankful for this as they need a brake.
The majority of non farmers don't understand how a farmer gets there income, how it each month it varies and what can effect this.
They see a big tractor, land and think there is plenty of money but they don't see the repayments on the tractor, the fall in prices or the changes the eu are making in regards to farming in the next few years.
Any business will use the systems in place to bring down there tax bill.
If you have a few children and they want to go to college you will do what you can to give them this chance. The majority of farm families I know would have got grants. The children would have worked part time in college and full time during the summers. All of these children now have good jobs.
I think what happens with non farmers is hearing the poor mouth from the ifa ect always when the ifa should be saying if a farmer can afford it they should pay. There are farmers out there who could afford to send the kids to college without getting the grant and they should be doing this.
The grant needs to be income based and not based on the value of assets.

Dont be daft

Wendell Gee wrote: »

Lads, lads, ye are beginning to sound like the Joe Duffy brigade. The IFA staff are not farmers, for starters. Secondly the IFA have two full time staff in the press office, and they are superb at their job, trust me.
The big problem the farming community have is the complexity of the issues involved and the lack of understanding of even the basics among the Duffy's, Cooper's, Hook's and co.
Eddie Downey of IFA slayed the Labour Party chairman Colm Keaveney on RTE news yesterday on the asset inclusion for means testing re college grants issue.
Keaveney didn't even know that capital spend/depreciation cannot be used to reduce what is described as "reckonable income" when means testing.
This forum so often ends with people slagging the farm organisations, trust me, it's not half as easy as it might seem from the outside.

Nobody here is slagging the IFA. Its constructive criticism and its very much focused on the issue of PR. A lot of the contributors to this thread including myself are paid up members of the IFA. If any of the IFA staff are reading this, take this as an emerging opinion among the grassroots. I have sat in discussions with groups of young farmers and its an issue that has been raised consistently.

I said the IFA was made up of farmers, poor choice of words by me.
What I meant by that was its staff were drawn from farming backgrounds which mostly is the case.


A PR office with two full time staff for an organisation which represents about 100,000 shows that the IFA doesnt place that much emphasis on PR.
The proof of the pudding is in the tasting and if these two guys were superb then why is the public so misinformed on the Agri industry?
Truth be told even if they are superb they are not faces which are debating the issues in front of the public.
Its these debates and interviews were the general public glean most of their information/opinions from.

I didnt see the Eddie Downey interview so I'll have to take your word for it but I have seen countless occasions were an IFA representitive was involved in a public debate and they were slayed.

rancher

Dont be daft wrote: »

I agree totally with the opinion expressed that the current IFA are a PR nightmare. However public opinion is only one tool an organisation has and I believe behind the scenes when it comes to other issues the IFA is effective.
But nevertheless I dont think anyone can argue that they have used PR well in any recent debates.

I dont think I could do better. In fact I can honestly say I couldnt do better and the reason why is because Im not a trade unionist and I have no political or PR expierence.
For those reasons I would be out of my depth and I believe the current IFA is out of its depth for similar reasons.

The fact that the IFA staff is made up of farmers is half its problem. The IFA need to look beyond the farming community if it wants to bring in the staff and expertise required for an effective PR campaign.

IFA staff are not all farmers, they are very professional and great advisers to our national and county officers, brilliant tacticians when involved in farmers problems. What difference does it make what joe public thinks of us, cop yourselves on....

Dont be daft

rancher wrote: »

IFA staff are not all farmers, they are very professional and great advisers to our national and county officers, brilliant tacticians when involved in farmers problems. What difference does it make what joe public thinks of us, cop yourselves on....

Couldnt agree more. As I've said from the start they are a very effective. I've worked alongside the IFA on several occassions and have been continually impressed by them. Nobody is saying they are useless or incapable.

The point being raised is that the fall down when it comes to how the portray the sector to the public.

If you think it doesnt matter what the public thinks then Im afraid you need to cop on.
Public opinion can be stronger than any pressure group or organisation. It shapes political policy and for retailers its absolutely vital to have the public on their side.

I mentioned the milk protests in the UK earlier in the thread. Already retailers have agreed to raise the price of milk because of the unwanted negative press associated with ripping farmers off. Could you imagine that happening in Ireland?
No, of course not.

Why? Cos the Irish public have little or no interest in the plight of Irish farmers.

Why have they no interest? Because they have archiac notions of farmers and farm incomes.

Who's to blame for this? Well considering the only organisation which has a clear vested interest in educating the public has 2 guys in its press office and is continually out manouvered in public debates the IFA must share some of this blame.

reilig

I'd look at it in another way. They have a dual role. Firstly they are our union and are there to represent us and to lobby for us. Secondly, As our union, they represent us to our customers and to our funders. Simply put, we rely on our customers to buy what we produce - so with an ever growing urban population, we need to keep this market on our side. A huge proportion of farmers are reliant on outside funding. In the past, our funding came from the EU - from which we were a net receiver. I don't think we will get away with this in the future. As farmers, if we want financing, it will have to be from our own economy. I pay my IFA subscription so that the IFA puts around good PR for us. I see it as a significant role for them - a role which will become essentially more important in the future.

rancher wrote: »

IFA staff are not all farmers, they are very professional and great advisers to our national and county officers, brilliant tacticians when involved in farmers problems. What difference does it make what joe public thinks of us, cop yourselves on....

Farmer Pudsey

I agree with a lot of people here public opinion is very important ignore it at your peril. Wheather we like it or not some form of assessment other than income will be used for third level fees. You have to look at it from a PAYE taxpayers view they generate the majority of incom tax and then see other sectors that they persieve just as well off able to use tax avoidance (nothing illegal) to reduce there income so that they are able to claim partial or full college grants.

This is not just targeted at farmers but at all selfemployed who have the ability to manuliplate the system to there advantage. The biggest issue at the moment is that means testing is becoming flavour of the month for Child benifit and is raising its head in the house tax and water tax.

It will be very hard to justify to the public that the self employed will be able to avoid or dilute these taxes while PAYE workers on moderate incom's will be forced to pay them. It is very hard if you live in a three bed semi and your household tax may be 1000, water 300 you have to shrimp and save to send your kids to college ( I know we all do) and you see your employer ( a garage owner or shop owner) or a neighbour down the road in a massive house with a Merc outside able to avail of the grant.

By the way do not shoot the messanger.

rancher

reilig wrote: »

I'd look at it in another way. They have a dual role. Firstly they are our union and are there to represent us and to lobby for us. Secondly, As our union, they represent us to our customers and to our funders. Simply put, we rely on our customers to buy what we produce - so with an ever growing urban population, we need to keep this market on our side. A huge proportion of farmers are reliant on outside funding. In the past, our funding came from the EU - from which we were a net receiver. I don't think we will get away with this in the future. As farmers, if we want financing, it will have to be from our own economy. I pay my IFA subscription so that the IFA puts around good PR for us. I see it as a significant role for them - a role which will become essentially more important in the future.

Any issues I was involved with that acheived a result, usually meant causing havoc with the public.
DBD,, I always thought that the milk protests went well here, more chaos with the public of course but great crack.
Don't know if I'd like to be a member of any organisation that would be worried about PR. Katie didn't need it to win the gold today, she didn't worry about her image, only 200 went to see her box 3 mths ago, now she could fill croke pk