Blasphemy

totus tuus

It seems like blasphemy has become a standard of entertainment lately. It's hard to watch a TV show, movie, play or comedian or engage in conversation without being subjected to blasphemous humour etc. I cringe whenever I hear people casually swearing the Lord's name, we should respect the Holy Name of Jesus.

For this reason also, God highly exalted Him, and bestowed on Him the name which is above every name, so that at the name of Jesus EVERY KNEE WILL BOW, of those who are in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and that every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. (Phil 2:9-11)

tommy2bad

Not sure it blasphemy you're objecting to, more impious behavior. The question is are they intending to mock God or stupid people who think that God cares what some comic says?

totus tuus

Every time the Lord's name is taken in vain, it's a sin - 2nd commandment. I have to reprimand members of my family who freely use Jesus' Name to embellish the conversation!

Sin City

If you stub your toe and yell Jesus Christ are you in trouble?

totus tuus

Sin City wrote: »

If you stub your toe and yell Jesus Christ are you in trouble?

I usually say ffs!

Sin City

totus tuus wrote: »

I usually say ffs!

Yes but what Im saying is its a reaction and not just a conscious thought

You dont think your going to say Jesus Christ but you do without any thought for the meaning of the world or phrase

sbsquarepants

totus tuus wrote: »

It seems like blasphemy has become a standard of entertainment lately. It's hard to watch a TV show, movie, play or comedian or engage in conversation without being subjected to blasphemous humour etc. I cringe whenever I hear people casually swearing the Lord's name, we should respect the Holy Name of Jesus.

I think the mistake you're making is in assuming the comic has the same values, or indeed god as you do. WE should not respect your gods rules, YOU should.
I don't mean that in a facetious way either by the way, just matter of factly. Your religion binds you, it doesn't bind me - that's how it should be, anything else is just oppression.

MrTsSnickers

I think it's very popular to be atheist at the moment. It has gone from a group of people who didn't believe to a lot of people who don't believe in a deity and think everyone else should do the same (but then want to get married in a church!). I agree with the other poster in the sense that much blasphemy is a reaction to a surprise and as such - chill out. With regard to [in my view] actual blasphemy, I think it's downright disrespectful and condescending, I say this as a non believer myself. The way I see it, if you don't try to convert me or preach to me, do what you want, and even if you did try to convert/preach, I'd probably just leave and put you down as rude.

Tl;dr - In my view, many people have lost respect for people, especially people that believe in religion, it's not right but that's how the cookie crumbles.

ShooterSF

MrTsSnickers wrote: »

I think it's very popular to be atheist at the moment. It has gone from a group of people who didn't believe to a lot of people who don't believe in a deity and think everyone else should do the same (but then want to get married in a church!). I agree with the other poster in the sense that much blasphemy is a reaction to a surprise and as such - chill out. With regard to [in my view] actual blasphemy, I think it's downright disrespectful and condescending, I say this as a non believer myself. The way I see it, if you don't try to convert me or preach to me, do what you want, and even if you did try to convert/preach, I'd probably just leave and put you down as rude.

Tl;dr - In my view, many people have lost respect for people, especially people that believe in religion, it's not right but that's how the cookie crumbles.

So is it just breaking some religions rules you want to impose on everyone? Can we have tv shows where people eat at non-halal restaurants or even eat cow or pork at all? Should we make sure no one wears clothes made of two different materials lest it upset jewish beliefs? What about the poor Mormons and Scientologists? Their beliefs are subject to much worse treatment that the larger abrahamic ones at the moment. Should their critics be silenced too?

doctoremma

MrTsSnickers wrote: »

Tl;dr - In my view, many people have lost respect for people, especially people that believe in religion, it's not right but that's how the cookie crumbles.

Should I be able to demand that nobody cut into a juicy piece of steak in front me? Am I able to claim that my beliefs are being disrespected if they continue to do so?

No. That would be silly, wouldn't it? What's the difference?

MrTsSnickers

ShooterSF wrote: »

So is it just breaking some religions rules you want to impose on everyone? Can we have tv shows where people eat at non-halal restaurants or even eat cow or pork at all? Should we make sure no one wears clothes made of two different materials lest it upset jewish beliefs? What about the poor Mormons and Scientologists? Their beliefs are subject to much worse treatment that the larger abrahamic ones at the moment. Should their critics be silenced too?

Think you misunderstood, or I wrote it badly.
1) I don't think that people should disrespect others' beliefs, be they religious or not.
2) I don't think that religious people should disrespect my beliefs.
3) I think people should be free to practice whatever they want, as is their want. I don't think that I alluded to anyone being silenced?

My main point is that blasphemy (as in 2nd commandment blasphemy) can sometimes be a reaction to a stimulus rather than an actual attempt to be disrespectful. Other Times it's someone being a douche and intentionally being an ass toward someone that has a different belief system. The OP was re: blasphemy becoming more noticeable and accepted in general, I was merely trying to proffer a theory as to why. Not to silence anyone.

edit: as for people opting to be vegetarian, that's their choice. I like steak.

I think that there shouldn't be censorship of any content. Watersheds are fine but censorship no. I'm sure that there are tv production companies that focus on religiously appropriate material. You choose to watch tv, choose the content.

ShooterSF

Fair enough though I think you might be mixing up people who disrespect a person versus people who disrespect a belief. The latter happens in regards religion on tv often and should be allowed.

sbsquarepants

But to extend that "respect" to all religions would mean not being able to do a myriad of everyday things we take for granted, completely impractical.
So is it somehow ok to disrespect a muslims beliefs by having a pint and a rasher sambo, but not a christians by saying jesus christ as a reaction to seeing something shocking?
If "we" should respect god, "we" should respect all gods. What the OP seems to be suggesting is "they" should respect "my god"
There is an inherent hypocrisy in the very concept of blasphemy - christian worship is muslim blasphemy, and vice versa. You can't respect anything that is so plainly illogical and if you say you do, not you personally - i mean people in general - you're either a fool or a liar.

MrTsSnickers

ShooterSF wrote: »

Fair enough though I think you might be mixing up people who disrespect a person versus people who disrespect a belief. The latter happens in regards religion on tv often and should be allowed.

I assume you mean not allowed.

No, that would be censorship so no. Adults are free to watch whatever they want, providing it's available. If you watch a comedian that makes anti religious comments, why should they not be allowed to? Because you don't like it? Others find it funny, as is their want. You don't have to watch it.

jhegarty

Free speech works both ways.

It allows you to say what you want , but also does the same for others.

Bloodwing

MrTsSnickers wrote: »

I think it's very popular to be atheist at the moment. It has gone from a group of people who didn't believe to a lot of people who don't believe in a deity and think everyone else should do the same (but then want to get married in a church!). I agree with the other poster in the sense that much blasphemy is a reaction to a surprise and as such - chill out. With regard to [in my view] actual blasphemy, I think it's downright disrespectful and condescending, I say this as a non believer myself. The way I see it, if you don't try to convert me or preach to me, do what you want, and even if you did try to convert/preach, I'd probably just leave and put you down as rude.

Tl;dr - In my view, many people have lost respect for people, especially people that believe in religion, it's not right but that's how the cookie crumbles.

I have plenty of respect for religious people but I have no respect for their religion. Not sure who came up with this quote but it's very relevant.

sbsquarepants

I assume you mean not allowed.

I read shootersf's post as SHOULD be allowed.
Which it should.
So, i think i agree with them!

Onesimus

I think we need to focus on transformation of ourselves and allow people to say the things they say and let it be.

I know a fella who goes to Mass every day and the odd curse word comes out of his mouth here and there but I don't say anything because my sins are heavier than his. I think we need to be careful about who we admonish and what we say to them. Because depending upon the spiritual disposition of each person, what we say can have a big effect on people. Perhaps they will not show this but it will stay with them and they will be thinking about it later.

Some are more easily admonished than others. This is why I don't give out when I go to confession and the confessor does not give me too much advice or says anything at all. Because I know that he knows that he does not know me? make sense? therefore he has to be careful about what advice he gives. He needs to get to know the person first and find out their spiritual disposition before he gives any advice. Because what he says can really cause spiritual harm to the person.

Therefore we too need to figure out a person otherwise our advice can cause them spiritual harm. In order to do this we need to pray pray pray and focus on our own transformation first.

Blasphemy is blasphemy only when someone knows its blasphemy. It is a mortal sin to take the Lords name in vain, many do it out of habit and it is a vice but the three conditions must be met in order for it to be a mortal sin and one of those conditions is that we know for certain that what we are doing is a mortal sin. Thing is, we don't know if someone knows its a mortal sin.

sbsquarepants

Onesimus wrote: »

I think we need to focus on transformation of ourselves and allow people to say the things they say and let it be.
.

......and what a wonderfull world it would be!

NotForResale

Just stick to the Trinity broadcast network.

Good ole non-offensive christian viewing.

totus tuus

Onesimus wrote: »

I think we need to focus on transformation of ourselves and allow people to say the things they say and let it be.

I know a fella who goes to Mass every day and the odd curse word comes out of his mouth here and there but I don't say anything because my sins are heavier than his. I think we need to be careful about who we admonish and what we say to them. Because depending upon the spiritual disposition of each person, what we say can have a big effect on people. Perhaps they will not show this but it will stay with them and they will be thinking about it later.

Some are more easily admonished than others. This is why I don't give out when I go to confession and the confessor does not give me too much advice or says anything at all. Because I know that he knows that he does not know me? make sense? therefore he has to be careful about what advice he gives. He needs to get to know the person first and find out their spiritual disposition before he gives any advice. Because what he says can really cause spiritual harm to the person.

Therefore we too need to figure out a person otherwise our advice can cause them spiritual harm. In order to do this we need to pray pray pray and focus on our own transformation first.

Blasphemy is blasphemy only when someone knows its blasphemy. It is a mortal sin to take the Lords name in vain, many do it out of habit and it is a vice but the three conditions must be met in order for it to be a mortal sin and one of those conditions is that we know for certain that what we are doing is a mortal sin. Thing is, we don't know if someone knows its a mortal sin.

I agree with you for the most part. However 2 of the Spiritual Works of Mercy is to instruct the ignorant and to admonish the sinner.

One cannot perform this work of mercy without being willing to admonish the sinner and warn them out of true charity for the sake of their soul. Of course, one must do this with compassion and love, but one cannot let that compassion and love be seen as the drivel of tolerance that is preached today. Christ did not hug those seeking to stone Mary Magdalene nor joke around with the money peddlers in the Temple. Likewise, despite what some Catholics would like to believe, He did not wink at Mary Magdalene and tell her to just be herself either. Too often we are told that we are not fit to judge others and this is true, but this does not mean that we cannot warn them, teach them and guide them and leave the judging to God. Beware anyone who tells you not to judge when you try to help another return on the path to salvation, for he who warns you is working on a commission from the devil.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/2465605/posts

Morbert

totus tuus wrote: »

Every time the Lord's name is taken in vain, it's a sin - 2nd commandment. I have to reprimand members of my family who freely use Jesus' Name to embellish the conversation!

That's not taking the Lord's name in vain.

Sarky

All I said was "That piece of halibut was good enough for Jehova..."

Walt Jabsco

http://us9.memecdn.com/Isnt-religion-fun_c_42060.jpg

Fanny Cradock

Neilos wrote: »

I have plenty of respect for religious people but I have no respect for their religion. Not sure who came up with this quote but it's very relevant.

The problem with that images is it presents a particular understanding of religion that immediately alienates religious people. Brainwashing! Tyranny! Really? It also assumes that all religions are in actuality a monolithic belief system. They aren't. I'm not sure if any of this was intentional or not. I would have thought that understanding your opponent was key. Generalising what "religious" people believe in a few sentences does not, I think, qualify as such.

I've yet to read the Charter in full, but I'm quite hopeful about the mutual respect that I've heard the Charter of Conscience promises. More here from Os Guinness in discussion with Terry Sanderson of the National Secular Society about the Charter.

newmug

Why is there always a big athiestic presence in the CHRISTIANITY forum?


Back on-topic, I agree OP. There is a huge amount of blasphemy in everyday life, especially in the meeeeeeeeeeja, and its disgusting. All we can do is try to glorify God first, look after our own souls second, and save a few more if we can after that.

doctoremma

newmug wrote: »

Why is there always a big athiestic presence in the CHRISTIANITY forum?

I have far more to learn from those I disagree with than from those I do. It's called 'expanding your horizons'. I would recommend it, very good for challenging one's opinions and outlooks.

newmug wrote: »

Back on-topic, I agree OP. There is a huge amount of blasphemy in everyday life, especially in the meeeeeeeeeeja, and its disgusting. All we can do is try to glorify God first, look after our own souls second, and save a few more if we can after that.

I fully agree. As long as my saving is last on your 'to do' list, we're square.

AtomicHorror

MrTsSnickers wrote: »

Think you misunderstood, or I wrote it badly.
1) I don't think that people should disrespect others' beliefs, be they religious or not.

Could not disagree more strongly. No idea, be it religious or otherwise, should be respected by default. People should be afforded a certain minimum level of respect, but ideas must earn respect. Otherwise criticism and ridicule are quite acceptable. Why should your ideas be immune? They go to the core of who you are, of how you view life, morality and death- the fundamentals. I get why you'd have a strong attachment to them, but surely the very magnitude of their importance, of their implications, should actually make openness to criticism all the more essential.

Bloodwing

Fanny Cradock wrote: »

The problem with that images is it presents a particular understanding of religion that immediately alienates religious people. Brainwashing! Tyranny! Really? It also assumes that all religions are in actuality a monolithic belief system. They aren't. I'm not sure if any of this was intentional or not. I would have thought that understanding your opponent was key. Generalising what "religious" people believe in a few sentences does not, I think, qualify as such.

I've yet to read the Charter in full, but I'm quite hopeful about the mutual respect that I've heard the Charter of Conscience promises. More here from Os Guinness in discussion with Terry Sanderson of the National Secular Society about the Charter.

The image includes a list of things that I do not respect. Religion is on of them, brainwashing and tyranny are others. Nowhere does it say religious people are brainwashed, you made that connection. I respect you regardless of what you believe and if I met you on the street I'd show you the utmost respect. I have a huge amount of respect for Katie Taylor and what she has achieved but I do not respect what she believes in because I believe it to be untrue and dangerous. That is my belief and I do not expect you to respect that belief.

Morbert

Neilos wrote: »

The image includes a list of things that I do not respect. Religion is on of them, brainwashing and tyranny are others. Nowhere does it say religious people are brainwashed, you made that connection.

The image clearly implies the connection.

tommy2bad

NotForResale wrote: »

Just stick to the Trinity broadcast network.

Good ole non-offensive christian viewing.

Now thats blasphemy.

Onesimus

totus tuus wrote: »

I agree with you for the most part. However 2 of the Spiritual Works of Mercy is to instruct the ignorant and to admonish the sinner.



http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/2465605/posts

Yes of course but it is HOW you approach instructing the ignorant and admonishing the sinner that can be a cause for great spiritual harm.

Some people are at different levels in their spirituality. Some are giants and others babes on milk and need to be led easily into things.

hiram

totus tuus wrote: »

It seems like blasphemy has become a standard of entertainment lately. It's hard to watch a TV show, movie, play or comedian or engage in conversation without being subjected to blasphemous humour etc. I cringe whenever I hear people casually swearing the Lord's name, we should respect the Holy Name of Jesus.

For this reason also, God highly exalted Him, and bestowed on Him the oname which is above every name, so that at the name of Jesus EVERY KNEE WILL BOW, of those who are in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and that every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. (Phil 2:9-11)

Ok, without meaning to offend, and bearing in mind that I believe in a Superior Being, but its posts like the above that do not help the Christian cause in any way. It, and its just my opinion, tends to turn people away from the Christian faith, especially when it comes to the youth. We as Masons have the same problem. Our demographics are on the older side of the swing.
We both need to tone down the Bible Belt "let's take the Bible Literally" crack and start focusing on encouraging our youth to "get it".

Fanny Cradock

Neilos wrote: »

The image includes a list of things that I do not respect. Religion is on of them, brainwashing and tyranny are others. Nowhere does it say religious people are brainwashed, you made that connection. I respect you regardless of what you believe and if I met you on the street I'd show you the utmost respect. I have a huge amount of respect for Katie Taylor and what she has achieved but I do not respect what she believes in because I believe it to be untrue and dangerous. That is my belief and I do not expect you to respect that belief.

OK, so the filler in between the opening statement "I do not respect your religious beliefs" and the closing statement "I do not respect your religion" has nothing to do with religion, even the bit to to with hell. And that's why you posted it on the Christianity forum. Get ya!

If people aren't understanding something you are saying - or something you are repeating - then perhaps you aren't saying it clearly enough.

totus tuus

sbsquarepants wrote: »

I think the mistake you're making is in assuming the comic has the same values, or indeed god as you do..

Absolutely not, it's obvious those sort of comedians have no values whatsoever!

tommy2bad

totus tuus wrote: »

Absolutely not, it's obvious those sort of comedians have no values whatsoever!

Bill Hicks was as far out their as comics went in his day but his comedy was awalys right on the money, even when mocking Christians.

georgieporgy

hiram wrote: »

Ok, without meaning to offend, and bearing in mind that I believe in a Superior Being, but its posts like the above that do not help the Christian cause in any way. It, and its just my opinion, tends to turn people away from the Christian faith, especially when it comes to the youth. We as Masons have the same problem. Our demographics are on the older side of the swing.
We both need to tone down the Bible Belt "let's take the Bible Literally" crack and start focusing on encouraging our youth to "get it".

That's kinda what Satan says too- less talk about prayer , penance, sacrifice, modesty, holiness, and a bit more ' let's just all love each other in a non judgemental sort of way'. and using Our Saviour's name as a swear word just for fun..... surely Jesus will get the joke too. He didn't seem to mind being mocked on the cross so it's probably ok with him, especially if you do it so often it becomes a habit that's difficult to shake.

Wiggles88

georgieporgy wrote: »

That's kinda what Satan says too- less talk about prayer , penance, sacrifice, modesty, holiness, and a bit more 'let's just all love each other in a non judgemental sort of way'

If Satan just wants us to get along and not be judgemental I got to say, I'd prefer to be on his side :P

totus tuus

Wiggles88 wrote: »

If Satan just wants us to get along and not be judgemental I got to say, I'd prefer to be on his side :P

I heard that they all get on like a 'house on fire' in Hell! :pac:

Quatermain

Like Mark Twain said: "Heaven for climate, and Hell for society".

newmug

Wiggles88 wrote: »

If Satan just wants us to get along and not be judgemental I got to say, I'd prefer to be on his side :P

This post just shows the level of ignornace there is out there, joking or not. So you'd rather be on the side of evil, because it glosses over the hard bits in life? Would you have joined the Nazi's if you were a Polish Jew, just to have a better life? Before you say it, sure the Church has done wrong in the past, but thats because of MEN, not GOD. It's not easy being Christian, its not easy trying to find love in your heart for people who hate you, its not easy posting on here and seeing the amount of bull spouted about the Church by people who haven't a clue, its not easy being the scapegoat for people's anger about child abuse. But you know what? When you die, God will not ask you about other people's sins or life, only about your own. And if you dont make room for God while you're here on Earth, you're not making room for yourself in his Kingdom when you die. And the next life is the real one, the next one is permanent.

Sarky

No, I really think there's something to this "just get along with each other and be tolerant" thing. It makes a lot of sense. Satan may well be the chap for me. Thanks, newmug!

Helix

MrTsSnickers wrote: »

I don't think that I alluded to anyone being silenced?

is that not what you did here?

MrTsSnickers wrote: »

1) I don't think that people should disrespect others' beliefs, be they religious or not.
2) I don't think that religious people should disrespect my beliefs.

newmug

Wiggles88 wrote: »

If Satan just wants us to get along and not be judgemental I got to say, I'd prefer to be on his side :P

Sarky wrote: »

No, I really think there's something to this "just get along with each other and be tolerant" thing. It makes a lot of sense. Satan may well be the chap for me. Thanks, newmug!

Trolling, the epitome of trolling. You are, joking or not, talking on a Christianity forum about joining satan? Its bad enough athiests are allowed post here, but this is beyong the beyonds. There has to be a line. Would you talk about admiring hitler on a holucaust survivors website?

And you have to get permission to post in the soccer forum.:rolleyes:

Corkfeen

newmug wrote: »

Wiggles88 wrote: »

If Satan just wants us to get along and not be judgemental I got to say, I'd prefer to be on his side :P

Sarky wrote: »

No, I really think there's something to this "just get along with each other and be tolerant" thing. It makes a lot of sense. Satan may well be the chap for me. Thanks, newmug!

Trolling, the epitome of trolling. You are, joking or not, talking on a Christianity forum about joining satan? Its bad enough athiests are allowed post here, but this is beyong the beyonds. There has to be a line. Would you talk about admiring hitler on a holucaust survivors website?

And you have to get permission to post in the soccer forum.:rolleyes:

I'm fairly certain wiggle's original comment is referencing a joke, can't remember which comedian but it seems familiar....

skooterblue2

newmug wrote: »

And the next life is the real one, the next one is permanent.

I would say make the most of the present

Sonics2k

newmug wrote: »

Trolling, the epitome of trolling. You are, joking or not, talking on a Christianity forum about joining satan? Its bad enough athiests are allowed post here, but this is beyong the beyonds. There has to be a line. Would you talk about admiring hitler on a holucaust survivors website?

And you have to get permission to post in the soccer forum.:rolleyes:

Hah and hah

Snappy Smurf

Sin City wrote: »

Yes but what Im saying is its a reaction and not just a conscious thought

You dont think your going to say Jesus Christ but you do without any thought for the meaning of the world or phrase

If I hurt myself, if ever I am tempted to use the Lord's name, I force myself to say FFS instead.

However, if I am in the bath and scald or freeze myself accidentally, I might say ''Glory to God in the highest heavens.'' I'm not sure you could call that blasphemy or even irreverence. Thoughts?

skooterblue2

newmug wrote: »

And you have to get permission to post in the soccer forum.:rolleyes:

About as effective as stamping passports "Not Valid for Africa"

newmug

Sonics2k wrote: »

Hah and hah

Whats your point? All that came up on the second link was "Garda". And God bless you.

Sonics2k

newmug wrote: »

Whats your point? All that came up on the second link was "Garda". And God bless you.

You're complaining about trolling and non-christians in this forum, yet just the other day you were spamming a thread on the Atheism and Agnostic forum with passive-aggressive comments.

Irony good sir, are you not understanding it?