Is my new three day split (and cardio) routine okay? Please help.

runswithascript

The three day split designed for me by my new gym is as follows:

Day 1

Preacher Curl, 3 sets, each set consisting of a subset of 10 reps @ 10kg, 8 reps @ 15kg, 6 reps @ 20kg, 8 reps @ 15kg, 10 reps at 20kg.

I'm not sure how long of a break I am supposed to take between each of the three major sets.

Supine Tricep Dumbbell Extension, 4 sets, 10 reps, at 20kg supersetted with 10 rep Tricep Bench Dips of my body weight. As I understand supersetting I take no break between sets here?

4 sets of 10 rep Dumbell Shoulder Presses @ 10kg (Total) supersetted with 10 rep Dumbbell Lateral Raises @5kg.

The final part of this day is a 'triset'.

4 sets of 10 rep Cable Curls (straight bar) @ 40kg, trisetted with Cable Pushdowns (rope) @ 60kg, and with Frontal Raises (straight bar) @ 20kg.

Day 2

4 sets of 10 rep Machine Seated Presses @ 25kg supersetted with Machine Lateral Pulldowns at 40kg.

4 sets of 10 rep Incline Bench Presses at 10kg.

4 sets of 10 rep One Arm Bent-Over Rows @ 15kg.

4 sets of 10 rep Pec Flys supersetted with Cable Rows

Day 3

5 sets of 5 rep Machine Leg Presses, today I did 80kg first, 90kg second, 100kg third, 105kg fourth and fifth. No break between reps but 2 minute breaks between sets.

3 sets of 10-12 rep Machine Leg Extensions, #10 setting on the machine first set, #11 second set, #13 third set. 1 minute rest between sets.

3 sets of 10-12 Machine Leg Curls, #4 setting on the machine first set, #5 second set, and #6 third set. 1 minute rest between sets.

4 sets of 10 rep Walking Dumbbell Lunges @5kg (each arm) (20 reps each set walking up and down together) supersetted with Exercise Ball Hamstring Curl using only my bodyweight. 60 seconds rest after each superset.

3 sets of 10 rep Machine Calf Raises @ 20kg supersetted with 15 rep Standing Calfraises using my bodyweight. 60 rest after each superset.

Non Three Day Split Exercises

I do 5 minutes walking on an incline at speed 4-5 to warmup.

I exercise abs every day, 3 sets of 15 rep Ab Crunches with an exercise weight ball over my hand - I'm guessing to keep my balance. 3 sets of 10 rep Reverse Curls with straight legs, hands under my ass. 3 sets of 10 rep Roman Chairs using my body weight.

The trainer that gave me the programme for the first two days said to do the three day split as much as I can and fit in 15 minutes walking incline cardio on the day I'm not working out, that equates to seven days which is unworkable for me but I can do six days if I really want to - which I do.

The trainer that gave me the programme for the third day said to do the three day twice a week Monday through Saturday doing 15 minutes walking cardio after each workout - who is correct?

I weigh 88kg and I am just under 6ft, I'm told I'm pretty broad in my shoulders but I definitely don't have broad arms or legs. I carry a good chunk of that 88kg in my belly which has built up over the last year or so.

The first day I went in I was taken through 1 set of each exercise for the first two days and then went home. I was sore in the evening but figured that was normal so went back the next day and did Day 2 exercises, that was a Friday, and I spent the weekend in agony unable to fully straighten my arms until Sunday night because the pain around my arm joint, between my biceps, triceps, and forearm was so bad. There was lots of cold patches, freeze spray, and Solpadeine used.

Today I did Day 3 exercises for the first time, some stretching at the end, and I feel good but I was working on my legs so...

I'm going to do Day 1 tomorrow fully for the first time and hope the pain isn't as bad, I've worked out at a gym before and although there was pain starting out it was nothing compared to last weekend.

Is my routine okay? Is there anything I'm missing? If I haven't mentioned it it means I don't know it. Is the three day split twice Monday through Saturday okay, and who is right about the cardio? Maybe I should be reducing the weights since I'm starting out or maybe not working to failure all the time?

I know this is a long thread but I didn't want to leave anything out. I would appreciate any advice and guidance this forum can offer me.

runswithascript

My heart-rate goes up to 150 or so during the the 5 minute warm-up and 15 minute cardio after working out, and I'm 28.

Edwardius

Is my routine okay?

You didn't really mention any concrete goals, are you trying to lose fat, get bigger/fitter? Also, not being able to straighten your arms may be a very bad thing. Some soreness if you're not accustomed to training is normal, but reduced range of motion is not good.


I can move this to health and fitness if you like, it may be more suitable there.

runswithascript

Dead Ed wrote: »

You didn't really mention any concrete goals, are you trying to lose fat, get bigger/fitter? Also, not being able to straighten your arms may be a very bad thing. Some soreness if you're not accustomed to training is normal, but reduced range of motion is not good.


I can move this to health and fitness if you like, it may be more suitable there.

My goals are gaining strenght and mass, I have a bit of a tire around my waist and I would like to lose that along the way, but again my primary goal is to increase size and strenght so although I am only starting out the thread is probably best suited to this forum?

I did my arms today and did not work til failure and don't feel nearly as bad, I told one of the instructors and he said to continue not working to failure this week, but next week do so....

squod

dusf wrote: »

or maybe not working to failure all the time?

Working to failure means it takes longer to recover. Bodyweight exercises are brilliant for novices.

Bodyweight (or dumbbell) squats, push-ups, supine rows, pull-ups & dumbbell lunges. Basic stuff. Really works.

Transforms video on basic barbell movements and eating to build mass is probably the next step like.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W6Oxa__Fbi4

SorGan

bench, rows, squat, deadlift, pullups, overheadpress.

anything else is fluff

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=643686&page=1

a list of stuff above ive used and had good results from.

siochain

SorGan wrote: »

bench, rows, squat, deadlift, pullups, overheadpress.

anything else is fluff

FTW

kansatsu

Hi dusf,

Did you tell your trainer about your goals (strength and muscle mass)? Because from what I can see your program is completely random. You do not start any muscle building program with preacher curls or some other isolating exercises. You have a lot of isolating movements and machines in your program which seems completely aganist your goals. I'm not sure if you are a beginner but I think that even beginners should start with some compound movements and learn proper techniques from the beginning. Machines should only be used if you are coming back from an injury etc.

You should be starting your routine with a big muscle group and then follow it with a small muscle group. Your day 1 seems to be the other way round (arms then shoulders).

Rest periods - for smaller groups like arms 1 minute is enough and because you are not lifting big weights yet you should stick with 1 minute break for everything. When you start lifting heavier, then you can rest 2 minutes between sets when doing bigger muscle groups.

runswithascript

Firstly, thanks to all who replied.

squod wrote: »

Working to failure means it takes longer to recover. Bodyweight exercises are brilliant for novices.

To clarify, is this something you are saying I should or should not be doing?

Before answering please see what I mention later in this post about introducing more rest days, and possible only working out three days a week rather than six days.

SorGan wrote: »

bench, rows, squat, deadlift, pullups, overheadpress.

anything else is fluff

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=643686&page=1

a list of stuff above ive used and had good results from.

There's a lot there, is there one of the links in particular covering a programme I could get started with?

kansatsu wrote: »

Did you tell your trainer about your goals (strength and muscle mass)? Because from what I can see your program is completely random.

I told the trainer I was interested in gaining strength and mass, and I think I recall asking them what we would start with and they then asked me what I would like to build. On the spot I told her I would like to build everything but I'd like bigger arms and chest muscles.

kansatsu wrote: »

You do not start any muscle building program with preacher curls or some other isolating exercises. You have a lot of isolating movements and machines in your program which seems completely aganist your goals. I'm not sure if you are a beginner but I think that even beginners should start with some compound movements and learn proper techniques from the beginning. Machines should only be used if you are coming back from an injury etc.

I was in Jackie Skellie for a few months before so I would very much still consider myself a beginner

I have to say, it's very disconcerting to be told three different things my three different trainers, especially since I paid, if even a small amount for the programme.

I was told by another trainer I got talking to yesterday, who power-lifts and did come across like he knew what he was talking about, that doing my current three day split program (although he did not look over each routine) twice over Monday through Saturday was too much, and I should be doing one day workout, one day rest.

Due to commitments in my weekly timetable I would rather have the days I workout set rather than different days at the gym each week. He said that working out Monday, Wednesday, and Friday, with Tuesday, Thursday, Saturday and Sunday off would work for me. He also said I could do a bit of cardio after each workout or on the days I'm not working out. What do you guys think?

He said he does not do people out quick (cheap) programmes like the other instructors, but what he does offer is a 90 minute assessment where he will begin testing each muscle group to get the correct specific exercises as not everyone should be doing the same.

He will then go through an entire program with me and also cover exactly what to eat, macros, and he monitors what people are eating etc the whole time. I told him I might come back to him in 4 to 6 weeks. I know this is part of how he generates his income, but he did come across genuine. He charges between €50 and €100, I don't want to be too specific.

I have to say, it's very disconcerting to be told three different things by three different trainers, especially since I paid, if even a small amount for the programme. I won't bring this up with the trainers because I'd rather not stir any sh1t that might make me uncomfortable at the gym.

kansatsu wrote: »

You should be starting your routine with a big muscle group and then follow it with a small muscle group. Your day 1 seems to be the other way round (arms then shoulders).

Okay, I will do shoulders before arms on Day 1, what else in my program should I change please, and if it's not too much trouble, can you be specific?

kansatsu wrote: »

Rest periods - for smaller groups like arms 1 minute is enough and because you are not lifting big weights yet you should stick with 1 minute break for everything. When you start lifting heavier, then you can rest 2 minutes between sets when doing bigger muscle groups.

Good to know, thank you very much.

squod

dusf wrote: »

To clarify, is this something you are saying I should or should not be doing?

Working to failure isn't a good thing. If the rest days are spaced out well, you could work to failure like. I reckon my legs get a hammering (to failure) on Thursday and then I only do lighter stuff on the following Tuesday. Five days rest.

All that said, it'll depend on yourself. Start the bodyweight stuff and try keep a sense of balance. Not doing too much of one exercise and not enough of another.

kansatsu

squod wrote: »

Working to failure isn't a good thing.

Working to failure is the only way to build muscle or at least the most effective one. To build muscle, you have to push through your limits and that means going to failure. Period.

kansatsu

Hi dusf,

I'm not being sexist or anything like that but I noticed that you referred to your trainer as "her". When I joined one of the gyms I dediced to go through some induction programme and see what they give me (I've been working out since i was 17 so I consider myself quite experienced ;-). The first girl I had told me to train legs 3 times per week (muscle building). I don't know anyone (including professional bodybuilders) who trains legs 3 times per week. The other girl I got after this one gave me a program that included mostly machines (again for muscle mass). What I am trying to say is that female instructors are great when it comes to cardio, spin and other aerobic classes but most of them do not know much about muscle building. Reading about that is just not enough, you have to go through it yourself and I personally do not know any female instructors who tried at any stage to build some muscle.

As far as your goals are concerned, I would suggest a 3 day split. Monday, Wednesday, Friday or Tuesday, Thursday, Saturday or something similar. Just make sure you have a day rest in between sessions. Combine a big muscle group with a small muscle group, for example:

DAY 1 - Chest, Shoulders, Triceps
DAY 2 - Back, Biceps
Day 3 - Legs

This is just an example, you have to see which parts you like to train together. Another example could be

DAY 1 - Chest, Biceps, Triceps
DAY 2 - Back, Shoulders
DAY 3 - Legs

Most people are against adding another body part to your leg training as training legs on their own could be really intense. However, from my own experience it is not always the case. I used to train legs and shoulders after that or biceps after legs and have not noticed any decrease in my performance. (And I train legs quite intensely, when doing my strength cycles I go up to 120kg (265lbs) squats for about 7-8 reps)

Now to the routine, I will give you an example split so you can see what it looks like and compare it to your own.

DAY 1
CHEST
1) DUMBBELL PRESS 3 sets 8-12 reps
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jRUC6IVav30
2) DUMBBELL INCLINE PRESS 3 sets 8-12 reps
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j8G9ycoySfA
Make sure your incline is at 30 degree angle, like in the ling, going any more than that is going to spread the weight over both your chest and your shoulders and this should be a chest exercise. I've seen people going 45 degrees or more which is quite pointless.
3) DUMBBELL FLYES 8-12 reps
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y_Z2LftZDvk

BICEPS
1) BARBELL CURL 3 sets 8-12 reps
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eIGxWfqd6CY
2) HAMMER CURL 3 sets 8-12 reps
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NEoIeunvMKA

TRICEPS
1) LYING DUMBBELL TRICEPS EXTENSION 3 sets 8-12 reps
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SQ6_8exMujc
2) TRICEPS PUSHDOWN 3 sets 8-12 reps
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PDec16KG11c

DAY 2
BACK
1) DUMBBELL ROW 3 sets 8-12 reps
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KR8onsa5jFQ
2) SEATED ROW 3 sets 8-12 reps
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7qK7x-d8V2A

SHOULDERS
1) DUMBBELL SHOULDER PRESS 3 sets 8-12 reps
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FpWrzp9Mnyg
2) LATERAL RAISES 3 sets 8-12 reps
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=geenhiHju-o
3) BENT-OVER LATERAL RAISES 3 sets 8-12 reps
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_1uZD-I3qw8

DAY 3
LEGS
1) SQUAT 3 sets 10-12 reps
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=huVujjfzphI
2) LEG CURL 3 sets 10-12 reps
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H-DVmwhCTL8
3) CALVES 3 sets 16-20 reps (pick one from the exercises in the video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j38HcpIRLEQ

Make sure you include one warm up set before starting with your main sets and always warm up in general (joints etc) before starting your routines. This is really important. I have been working out for the past 13 years and have never had any injuries and I think this is due to doing warm ups (and luck of course). I would also recommend doing stretches between sets. There are a lot of excercises to stretch every single muscle group. Just check them out on you tube.

As far as the weight used during your sets is concerned, you have to stick within 6-12 range for most muscle groups. If you can only manage 4-5 good form reps it means the weight is too heavy, if you can manage more than 12 it means it is too light. Get yourself a pen and a notebook and write down what weights and reps you do. I've learned that this is one of the most important factors when it comes to building muscle (as important as good diet and decent routine). You tend to forget how many reps you did last week or how much weight you used last time. To build muscle, you have to make a constant progress with either reps or weight or both. If you do not know how much you lifted last time it is difficult to improve.

I'm sorry to hear that you get you get different kind of information from every single trainer. A lack of knowledge among personal trainers here is appaling. I've seen an overweight personal trainer explaining someone how to do abs or a tiny instructor telling somebody how to build big arms. To some extent, this is one of the few professions where the way you look shows what you know and also if you apply that knowledge. My advice would be to not blindly follow what everyone says but check it on the internet. There are plenty of resources out there. If you see that half of your gym is doing the same program incorporating the same exercises that means there is something wrong in the place.

Hanley

kansatsu wrote: »

Working to failure is the only way to build muscle or at least the most effective one. To build muscle, you have to push through your limits and that means going to failure. Period.

You're pretty much 100% wrong. FACT.

(fact > period. FACT.)

kansatsu

Hanley wrote: »

You're pretty much 100% wrong. FACT.

(fact > period. FACT.)

http://bodybuilding.about.com/od/howtoachieveresults/a/labradaprogress.htm

"
1. Not Training Hard Enough: You may think you're training hard enough, but are you really pushing it on each set? If you're not pushing yourself to the point where you cannot perform another repetition on each set, you're not training hard enough.

In order to stimulate muscle growth, you have to push each muscle group to the point that it fails, i.e., where you cannot perform any additional unassisted repetitions. It is at this point that your brain receives a signal from the muscles indicating that it needs to stimulate additional muscle growth in preparation for the next bout of exercise.

Your goal throughout your workout should be to progressively fatigue the target muscle group more and more with each succeeding set, until you reach point where that muscle group is totally fatigued. This is called training to failure.

Unlike other failures in life, this is a good failure to have because it signals growth. In between sets, you should rest only long enough to catch your breath, which will give your body the ability to cancel the oxygen deficit that builds up during each set. Once you have caught your breath, it's time to go on.

This leaves very little time for chatting with friends in the gym or indulging in other distractions. It should be your goal to get into the gym, get the job done and get out. Do not mistake training hard with training for a long time.

It's not the amount of time you spend in the gym that counts, it's the quantity and quality of the work you put in. Keep the intensity high and keep the growth coming.

Lee Labrada "

Hanley

Oh. Lee Labrada. Sorry. Guess I was wrong then.

And you're right. Girls know nothing about muscle gain and you shouldn't squat 3x per week. You do train your legs intensely after all.

squod

kansatsu wrote: »

http://bodybuilding.about.com/od/howtoachieveresults/a/labradaprogress.htm

You might find working to failure without waiting the necessary recovery time is easier when taking a steroid. Each to their own.

There's other articles kansatsu for us mere mortals to read, that say the opposite of what that article says.

kansatsu

There is plenty of recovery time when you do each muscle group once a week. Failure just basically means not being able to do another rep, it isn't even hardcore training. There are more intense training techniques out there (forced reps, supersets etc) and they should only be used periodically.

kansatsu

Hanley wrote: »

Oh. Lee Labrada. Sorry. Guess I was wrong then.

And you're right. Girls know nothing about muscle gain and you shouldn't squat 3x per week. You do train your legs intensely after all.

There is no reason to be sarcastic. I believe in training to failure, it has worked for me and a few other people I know ;-) so I guess it cannot be 100 per cent wrong.

Inspector Coptoor

Yeah, but it's not 100% right either & when someone quotes bodybuilding.com my bull**** spidey sense starts tingling.

OP, how many people have you paid to do you a programme?
How much research did you do on them?
You should look for a personal trainer who doesn't work in a commercial gym or a strength & conditioning coach.

I literally couldn't believe day 1 of your 1st programme when I read it.
Awful stuff

kevpants

kansatsu wrote: »

As far as the weight used during your sets is concerned, you have to stick within 6-12 range for most muscle groups. If you can only manage 4-5 good form reps it means the weight is too heavy, if you can manage more than 12 it means it is too light.

I was kind of willing to let some of your stuff slide based on good intentions and effort being a big part of the game but this is just unacceptable. I don't want to get into an e-penis argument here but seriously stop.

I've seen an overweight personal trainer explaining someone how to do abs or a tiny instructor telling somebody how to build big arms. To some extent, this is one of the few professions where the way you look shows what you know and also if you apply that knowledge.

This is Usain Bolt's coach.



Unless it was to catch a chipper van I'm pretty sure I could easily out-run him. Some of these unimpressive specimens are called coaches. You may well benefit from one.

Sugar Free

Some advice given here reads exactly like a Flex or MD magazine...

OP Transform's videos are a good start. Also, if you're determined and willing to fork out some cash a reputable trainer should set you on the right path.

runswithascript

kansatsu wrote: »

Hi dusf,

I'm not being sexist or anything like that but I noticed that you referred to your trainer as "her". When I joined one of the gyms I dediced to go through some induction programme and see what they give me (I've been working out since i was 17 so I consider myself quite experienced ;-). The first girl I had told me to train legs 3 times per week (muscle building). I don't know anyone (including professional bodybuilders) who trains legs 3 times per week. The other girl I got after this one gave me a program that included mostly machines (again for muscle mass). What I am trying to say is that female instructors are great when it comes to cardio, spin and other aerobic classes but most of them do not know much about muscle building. Reading about that is just not enough, you have to go through it yourself and I personally do not know any female instructors who tried at any stage to build some muscle.

As far as your goals are concerned, I would suggest a 3 day split. Monday, Wednesday, Friday or Tuesday, Thursday, Saturday or something similar. Just make sure you have a day rest in between sessions. Combine a big muscle group with a small muscle group, for example:

DAY 1 - Chest, Shoulders, Triceps
DAY 2 - Back, Biceps
Day 3 - Legs

This is just an example, you have to see which parts you like to train together. Another example could be

DAY 1 - Chest, Biceps, Triceps
DAY 2 - Back, Shoulders
DAY 3 - Legs

Most people are against adding another body part to your leg training as training legs on their own could be really intense. However, from my own experience it is not always the case. I used to train legs and shoulders after that or biceps after legs and have not noticed any decrease in my performance. (And I train legs quite intensely, when doing my strength cycles I go up to 120kg (265lbs) squats for about 7-8 reps)

Now to the routine, I will give you an example split so you can see what it looks like and compare it to your own.

DAY 1
CHEST
1) DUMBBELL PRESS 3 sets 8-12 reps
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jRUC6IVav30
2) DUMBBELL INCLINE PRESS 3 sets 8-12 reps
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j8G9ycoySfA
Make sure your incline is at 30 degree angle, like in the ling, going any more than that is going to spread the weight over both your chest and your shoulders and this should be a chest exercise. I've seen people going 45 degrees or more which is quite pointless.
3) DUMBBELL FLYES 8-12 reps
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y_Z2LftZDvk

BICEPS
1) BARBELL CURL 3 sets 8-12 reps
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eIGxWfqd6CY
2) HAMMER CURL 3 sets 8-12 reps
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NEoIeunvMKA

TRICEPS
1) LYING DUMBBELL TRICEPS EXTENSION 3 sets 8-12 reps
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SQ6_8exMujc
2) TRICEPS PUSHDOWN 3 sets 8-12 reps
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PDec16KG11c

DAY 2
BACK
1) DUMBBELL ROW 3 sets 8-12 reps
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KR8onsa5jFQ
2) SEATED ROW 3 sets 8-12 reps
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7qK7x-d8V2A

SHOULDERS
1) DUMBBELL SHOULDER PRESS 3 sets 8-12 reps
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FpWrzp9Mnyg
2) LATERAL RAISES 3 sets 8-12 reps
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=geenhiHju-o
3) BENT-OVER LATERAL RAISES 3 sets 8-12 reps
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_1uZD-I3qw8

DAY 3
LEGS
1) SQUAT 3 sets 10-12 reps
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=huVujjfzphI
2) LEG CURL 3 sets 10-12 reps
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H-DVmwhCTL8
3) CALVES 3 sets 16-20 reps (pick one from the exercises in the video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j38HcpIRLEQ

Make sure you include one warm up set before starting with your main sets and always warm up in general (joints etc) before starting your routines. This is really important. I have been working out for the past 13 years and have never had any injuries and I think this is due to doing warm ups (and luck of course). I would also recommend doing stretches between sets. There are a lot of excercises to stretch every single muscle group. Just check them out on you tube.

As far as the weight used during your sets is concerned, you have to stick within 6-12 range for most muscle groups. If you can only manage 4-5 good form reps it means the weight is too heavy, if you can manage more than 12 it means it is too light. Get yourself a pen and a notebook and write down what weights and reps you do. I've learned that this is one of the most important factors when it comes to building muscle (as important as good diet and decent routine). You tend to forget how many reps you did last week or how much weight you used last time. To build muscle, you have to make a constant progress with either reps or weight or both. If you do not know how much you lifted last time it is difficult to improve.

I'm sorry to hear that you get you get different kind of information from every single trainer. A lack of knowledge among personal trainers here is appaling. I've seen an overweight personal trainer explaining someone how to do abs or a tiny instructor telling somebody how to build big arms. To some extent, this is one of the few professions where the way you look shows what you know and also if you apply that knowledge. My advice would be to not blindly follow what everyone says but check it on the internet. There are plenty of resources out there. If you see that half of your gym is doing the same program incorporating the same exercises that means there is something wrong in the place.

Thanks for that reply, I'm sure it took some effort to put together.

Should I do some cardio on the off days, and how much of it at what heart rate?

squod wrote: »

You might find working to failure without waiting the necessary recovery time is easier when taking a steroid. Each to their own.

There's other articles kansatsu for us mere mortals to read, that say the opposite of what that article says.

But I would be working to a failure and resting that muscle group for six days, no... ?

Inspector Coptoor wrote: »

Yeah, but it's not 100% right either

What is then?

Inspector Coptoor wrote: »

OP, how many people have you paid to do you a programme?

I paid a small minimal fee to be given my first programme, it involved one trainer doing the programme for day 1 and 2, and when I came to back to the gym the following day I was shown day 3 by another trainer.

Inspector Coptoor wrote: »

How much research did you do on them?

I researched the gym here on boards, people here seem to have only good things to say about them.

*EDIT* If you mean how much research I did on the trainers, none, I entered the gym knowing hardly anything I don't think it would be strange for me to expect the staff who do this day in and day out would put me on a good programme which I was paying for.

Inspector Coptoor wrote: »

You should look for a personal trainer who doesn't work in a commercial gym or a strength & conditioning coach.

If I can afford that, and it's very big if right now, it's really something I would be able to pay for one session of once a month, or once every 6 weeks.

Inspector Coptoor wrote: »

I literally couldn't believe day 1 of your 1st programme when I read it.
Awful stuff

Okay, well what do you think of the programme kansatsu took the time to put together for me? If there's something on it you would change please specify what that is and what you would suggest instead.

It's hard to know what to do when everyone is saying different things, I don't want to waste time reading some book on it when I should be training, and it will probably end up being the wrong book anyway!

runswithascript

Sugar Free wrote: »

Some advice given here reads exactly like a Flex or MD magazine...

OP Transform's videos are a good start. Also, if you're determined and willing to fork out some cash a reputable trainer should set you on the right path.

Cheers, I looked at the video and I find it hard to understand what he's saying with all the echoes, maybe there's a better version out there?

Also, it does not outline a programme to get me started which is what I am really looking for if my one is so terrible...

runswithascript

I was happy when I saw kenatsu's comprehensive reply but now not so much because everyone is saying different things and contradicting each other. I'm confused, everyone is saying different things and I'm trying to stay motivated here but I have no ****ing idea what I should do at the gym tomorrow, only that everyone agrees my current routine is crap which leaves me certain I won't be following it

I really can't afford a personal trainer right now, possibly in 4-6 weeks but it's just not feasible at the moment.

kevpants

dusf wrote: »

I was happy when I saw kenatsu's comprehensive reply but now not so much because everyone is saying different things and contradicting each other. I'm confused, everyone is saying different things and I'm trying to stay motivated here but I have no ****ing idea what I should do at the gym tomorrow, only that everyone agrees my current routine is crap which leaves me certain I won't be following it

I really can't afford a personal trainer right now, possibly in 4-6 weeks but it's just not feasible at the moment.

You know the main barbell exercises? Squat, Deadlift, Bench, Overhead Press, Rows.

Do them. 5 sets of 5 is a good easy rep scheme.

Put handy enough weight on the bar to start with. Add a little bit every week. Spend the next few weeks and months doing that while reading up and form your own opinion.

squod

dusf wrote: »

But I would be working to a failure and resting that muscle group for six days, no... ?

What I reckon is keep it simple. Do your bodyweight stuff or near bodyweight stuff three times a week and then move to barbell movements later.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=80134096&postcount=5

The more often you can train like this, the more likely it is you'll build mass faster and maybe better. Theres a decent link to the 5x5 program mentioned above.
http://exercisedatabase.wikia.com/wiki/Strong_Lifts_5*5

I can appreciate you may not have got the answers you'd like. If you talk to your trainer about this and ask him to show you the 5x5 routines I'm sure (s)he'll be familiar.

Burkatron

kevpants wrote: »

You know the main barbell exercises? Squat, Deadlift, Bench, Overhead Press, Rows.

Do them. 5 sets of 5 is a good easy rep scheme.

Put handy enough weight on the bar to start with. Add a little bit every week. Spend the next few weeks and months doing that while reading up and form your own opinion.

squod wrote: »

What I reckon is keep it simple. Do your bodyweight stuff or near bodyweight stuff three times a week and then move to barbell movements later.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=80134096&postcount=5

The more often you can train like this, the more likely it is you'll build mass faster and maybe better. Theres a decent link to the 5x5 program mentioned above.
http://exercisedatabase.wikia.com/wiki/Strong_Lifts_5*5

I can appreciate you may not have got the answers you'd like. If you talk to your trainer about this and ask him to show you the 5x5 routines I'm sure (s)he'll be familiar.

Take the advice above 5x5, strong lifts, starting strength whatever variation! Give this ago while keeping your calories big, you'll build strength & size & it's not complicated!

runswithascript

kansatsu wrote: »

DAY 1
CHEST
1) DUMBBELL PRESS 3 sets 8-12 reps
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jRUC6IVav30
2) DUMBBELL INCLINE PRESS 3 sets 8-12 reps
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j8G9ycoySfA
Make sure your incline is at 30 degree angle, like in the ling, going any more than that is going to spread the weight over both your chest and your shoulders and this should be a chest exercise. I've seen people going 45 degrees or more which is quite pointless.
3) DUMBBELL FLYES 8-12 reps
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y_Z2LftZDvk

BICEPS
1) BARBELL CURL 3 sets 8-12 reps
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eIGxWfqd6CY
2) HAMMER CURL 3 sets 8-12 reps
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NEoIeunvMKA

TRICEPS
1) LYING DUMBBELL TRICEPS EXTENSION 3 sets 8-12 reps
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SQ6_8exMujc
2) TRICEPS PUSHDOWN 3 sets 8-12 reps
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PDec16KG11c

I tried this today and I do feel like I got a good workout on my arms, and to a lesser extent my chest but that's probably only because I use my arms more.

Here are my results:

CHEST
1) DUMBBELL PRESS 3 sets 8-12 reps

Warm-up 4 @ 2.5kg.

12 * 12 * 12 @ 10kg each dumbbell.

2) DUMBBELL INCLINE PRESS 3 sets 8-12 reps

12 * 12 * 12 @ 10kg

3) DUMBBELL FLYES 8-12 reps

12 * 12 * 7 @ 7.5kg each dumbbell.

*Is this better than using the 'Pec flye machine'?

BICEPS
1) BARBELL CURL 3 sets 8-12 reps

*I did preacher curls here instead because I had the seat at my disposal and I thought it might guarantee my form, any reason to do regular standing barbell curls instead?

Warm-up 4 * 10kg.

6 @ 20kg was too much for me so I lowered the weight.

12 * 9 * 8 @ 15kg.

2) HAMMER CURL 3 sets 8-12 reps

9 * 6 * 6 @ 7.5kg.

*Is 7.5kg too much for me if I am not able to get at least 8 reps each set?

TRICEPS
1) LYING DUMBBELL TRICEPS EXTENSION 3 sets 8-12 reps

12 * 7 * 6 @ 7.5kg.

*Same question re: hammer curl.

2) TRICEPS PUSHDOWN 3 sets 8-12 reps

12 * 12 * 4 @ machine setting '6'.

*I really really struggled with this exercise, I was sore at times and my shoulders felt a bit wonky at times, maybe that's a sure sign I should be doing it at 5 or 4 for now?

Do I only increase the weight when I can do each exercise 12 times in all its sets?

Do I need to warm up for each exercise, or just each muscle group?

Following the programme you have set out for me tomorrow, Wednesday, being the second day of my workout week I have no workout to do, can I go to the gym and do some cardio and my abs? If so how much cardio?

The gym had me walking at a threadmill incline setting 15, speed 5.5 (I could only really manage 4 or 4.5 here) for 15 minutes. My heart rate goes up to about 160 but I try to not hold onto the machine apart from when I want to check it. Is 160 too high, too low?

Maybe I should be running, or using the 'stepper' or cross trainer? What would you recommend, if anything, and for how long and at what setting? I would love to do cardio on my three off days (7th day of the week will always be off) but not at the price of building mass and strength.

The ab exercises the gym had me doing and I plan to do tomorrow:

3 * 15 Crunches holding a 6/8kg ball over my head for stability.

3 * 15 Reverse crunches, hand on my ass, not sure if palms up or down, back flat on the floor, moving my legs which are out straight in a curling motion over me and back down.

3 * 15 Roman chairs.

Sugar Free wrote: »

Some advice given here reads exactly like a Flex or MD magazine...

OP Transform's videos are a good start. Also, if you're determined and willing to fork out some cash a reputable trainer should set you on the right path.

How do I find a reputable trainer, someone the board here recommends or is there a better way? Would I get enough to do me from a good book?

Again if at all, I could only really afford to pay for a single session every 4-6 weeks and that's depending on how much a session costs.

kevpants wrote: »

You know the main barbell exercises? Squat, Deadlift, Bench, Overhead Press, Rows.

Do them. 5 sets of 5 is a good easy rep scheme.

Put handy enough weight on the bar to start with. Add a little bit every week. Spend the next few weeks and months doing that while reading up and form your own opinion.

squod wrote: »

What I reckon is keep it simple. Do your bodyweight stuff or near bodyweight stuff three times a week and then move to barbell movements later.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=80134096&postcount=5

The more often you can train like this, the more likely it is you'll build mass faster and maybe better. Theres a decent link to the 5x5 program mentioned above.
http://exercisedatabase.wikia.com/wiki/Strong_Lifts_5*5

I can appreciate you may not have got the answers you'd like. If you talk to your trainer about this and ask him to show you the 5x5 routines I'm sure (s)he'll be familiar.

Burkatron wrote: »

Take the advice above 5x5, strong lifts, starting strength whatever variation! Give this ago while keeping your calories big, you'll build strength & size & it's not complicated!

@kevpants @squod @burkatron: Thanks guys, but can't I incorporate that into the programme I did today I mention earlier in this post? If not, why is the programme 5*5 better than doing so?

If I did follow the 5*5 would you proscribe cardio on my off days? If so please specify. Is my HR at 160 for 15 minutes too much, too little?

kevpants

dusf wrote: »

My goals are gaining strenght and mass, I have a bit of a tire around my waist and I would like to lose that along the way, but again my primary goal is to increase size and strenght

What's wrong is your program is not going to help you achieve your goals.

You're majoring in the minor.

You're putting exercises at the heart of your program that offer the least chance of achieving the goal you stated.

Pick up a barbell, do the exercises I outlined in my post. Add a little weight every week. If in 12 months time you haven't increased in size and strength I will PM you my address and you can come round and kick me in the balls. A total free shot.

I'm not running down curls and pushdowns and lat raises, we all do them. You're just approaching this incorrectly.

Inspector Coptoor

100% What Kev said.

Never start a session with "arms".
Muscle groups are too small & you're not going to get enough out if it.

Do guns & other accessory work at the end.

Do a simple 5 x 5 programme or even 5/3/1 for beginners focussing on squat, deadlift, bench press & overhead press.

It takes time. Have goals but split them into short, medium & long term goals & make them realistic.

runswithascript

kevpants wrote: »

What's wrong is your program is not going to help you achieve your goals.

You're majoring in the minor.

You're putting exercises at the heart of your program that offer the least chance of achieving the goal you stated.

Pick up a barbell, do the exercises I outlined in my post. Add a little weight every week. If in 12 months time you haven't increased in size and strength I will PM you my address and you can come round and kick me in the balls. A total free shot.

I'm not running down curls and pushdowns and lat raises, we all do them. You're just approaching this incorrectly.

Inspector Coptoor wrote: »

100% What Kev said.

Never start a session with "arms".
Muscle groups are too small & you're not going to get enough out if it.

Do guns & other accessory work at the end.

Do a simple 5 x 5 programme or even 5/3/1 for beginners focussing on squat, deadlift, bench press & overhead press.

It takes time. Have goals but split them into short, medium & long term goals & make them realistic.

But the 5*5 linked doesn't have any exercises that specifically target biceps and triceps etc, or does it? Maybe bench press and the others do enough for this?

Can I add some stuff for my abs? The link says something like 'nothing should be added, but abs and pullups can be', I found that language confusing.

Can and should I be doing some cardio on my offdays, or even three of them? I would like Sunday free. If so please specify what duration and HR cardio will work well with this.

runswithascript

kevpants wrote: »

I'm not running down curls and pushdowns and lat raises, we all do them. You're just approaching this incorrectly.

But I shouldn't? Just they are not included in the 5*5 linked...

There is a modified version with pull ups http://exercisedatabase.wikia.com/wiki/Strong_Lifts_5*5

Would that be too much?

Inspector Coptoor

Try this

Monday
Squats - 5 x 5
Lunges - 3 x 8 per leg
Good morning/back raise - 5 x 10
Abs - 5 x 10 of whatever AB exercise you want

Tuesday
bench press - 5 x 5
Inc DB bench - 3 x 10
DB rows - 3 x 10 each side
Triceps - 3 x 12

Wednesday
Cardio/conditioning
Do hill sprints or intervals on a rower.
Stay off the treadmill
Don't worry about your Hear Rate

Thursday
Deadlifts - 5 x 5
Leg Curls - 3 x 10
Leg press - 3 x 10
Abs - 5 x 10

Friday
Military Press - 5 x 5
DB press - 3 x 10
Face pulls/lay raises - 3 x 10
Biceps curls - 3 x 12

Saturday
Same as Wed

Sunday
Off

that's not a perfect programme but it's not bad.

Stop over thinking everything and just do it

kansatsu

dusf wrote: »

I tried this today and I do feel like I got a good workout on my arms, and to a lesser extent my chest but that's probably only because I use my arms more.

I think it may be the way you performed your presses. If you are keeping the dumbbels too close to your body then most of the job is done with your triceps. Try a slightly wider position (with your biceps, elbow and your forearm forming a 90 degree angle). If you struggle with proper technique, you can try using a barbell instead.

dusf wrote: »

*Is this better than using the 'Pec flye machine'?

Yes, any kind of free weights exercise is superior to a machine. Machines have a fixed range of motion and they stabilize the weight for you, your only task is to push, pull, press etc. You do not have to worry about balancing the weight and keeping it under control meaning that there is less work performed by your muscles.

dusf wrote: »

*I did preacher curls here instead because I had the seat at my disposal and I thought it might guarantee my form, any reason to do regular standing barbell curls instead?

Preachers are usually used to finish off your biceps but if they work for you then you can do them instead. Just remember that if you want to increase your arms you have to focus on your triceps. Your biceps is one of the smallest muscles in your body and it can develop well when being used as a secondary muscle (when doing rows, pull ups etc) without any direct biceps exercises.

dusf wrote: »

Warm-up 4 * 10kg.

That's not a warm up. For your warm up you can use 50 per cent of your max rep weight and do at least the same number of reps as your main set (I would suggest more, 12-16). Doing just four reps is not enough, you have to get that blood flowing into the muscle so higher reps ;-)

dusf wrote: »

*Is 7.5kg too much for me if I am not able to get at least 8 reps each set?

Try the same weight next week, if you still can't do 8 then decrease the weight. You got yourself a starting point with all those reps and weights used. Open an excel spreadsheet if you have excel and start recording your results there. It is much handier than going through the pages of a logbook. When you start a new week aim for more reps or weight in all your exercises. Even if it is only one rep more or 1kg or 0.5kg more. You did 12 reps with 10 kg dumbbells yesterday (chest). Try if you can do 8 reps with 12kgs (good form).

dusf wrote: »

2) TRICEPS PUSHDOWN 3 sets 8-12 reps

12 * 12 * 4 @ machine setting '6'.

*I really really struggled with this exercise, I was sore at times and my shoulders felt a bit wonky at times, maybe that's a sure sign I should be doing it at 5 or 4 for now?

First, check if your pushdown machine is in kg or pounds. Machine setting 6 will not tell you anything and if you change gyms and the other will have different way of distributing weight it will be difficult to keep the record of your progress. Most of them will be in pounds (going as far as 240 etc)

Make sure you have your elbows close to the body and the only body part that should be moving is your forearms. IF you are leaning forward, moving up your traps and using momentum then the weight is too heavy.

dusf wrote: »

Do I only increase the weight when I can do each exercise 12 times in all its sets?

If you can perform 10 good form reps, you can increase the weight and try doing 6 - 8 good form reps. You will discover that some of your body parts will respond to lower reps 6-8, others to higher (12 or even more). At the moment, you are just trying to learn the proper technique so try staying in the higher rep range.

dusf wrote: »

Do I need to warm up for each exercise, or just each muscle group?

1-2 warm up sets per muscle group is enough. For example, you can use push ups as a warm up before doing chest.

dusf wrote: »

Following the programme you have set out for me tomorrow, Wednesday, being the second day of my workout week I have no workout to do, can I go to the gym and do some cardio and my abs? If so how much cardio?

This depends on how much time you have at your disposal. If you feel like going to the gym 6 times, then you can do your cardio on your rest days. The best way to do your cardio is either the very first thing in the morning
or after weights session. I prefer to do it in the morning as the only thing I can think about after weights is food and I do not want to wait any longer ;-)

dusf wrote: »

My heart rate goes up to about 160 but I try to not hold onto the machine apart from when I want to check it. Is 160 too high, too low?

As far as I remember, you're 28 so 160 is about 83 per cent of your maximum heart rate. If your aim is to improve your heart & stamina then this is ok. If you want to burn fat, then this is too intense. (Unless you are doing intervals and then this is not intense enough! ;-). Various sources say that it should be from 60 to 70 per cent of your max so in your case that would be 115 to 135 bpm 40 to 60 minutes (you can also try intervals if you are reasonably fit, it only takes 20 minutes but seems much longer that that 40-60 of medium intenstity cardio), but then again if your diet is bad no cardio will help you burn that excess body fat

dusf wrote: »

Maybe I should be running, or using the 'stepper' or cross trainer? What would you recommend, if anything, and for how long and at what setting? I would love to do cardio on my three off days (7th day of the week will always be off) but not at the price of building mass and strength.

This is your personal preference, choose what you like, cardio is boring and mundane so pick the one that you think will keep you going for a longer period of time. I personally do bike. The only thing that may be difficult for you is going to the gym 6 times per week. 6 days is a lot and sometimes you will feel like skipping it so consider doing cardio at home in the morning (if you have some equipment) or after weights.

dusf wrote: »

The ab exercises the gym had me doing and I plan to do tomorrow:

3 * 15 Crunches holding a 6/8kg ball over my head for stability.

3 * 15 Reverse crunches, hand on my ass, not sure if palms up or down, back flat on the floor, moving my legs which are out straight in a curling motion over me and back down.

3 * 15 Roman chairs.

Abs - I believe in high reps and by high reps i mean at least 30-40 per set. I am also totally against using dumbbells or some other extra weight when doing crunches etc. That may just expand your waistline. You will build up the muscle but it will expand your waistline. This is a personal preference, but I don't like the way professional bodybuilders look at the moment. 100cm in waist? Are you kidding me? After Frank Zane retired it all just went downhill when it comes to abs.


I will also add a few words about 5x5 so the Irish National Powerlifting Elite here can reply with some "you are 100 per cent wrong kansatsu" comments ;-) . I have done it a few years ago. I just found it difficult to fail at 5 reps in a set (as in not being able to do the 6th rep). You have to find weight that will let you do 5 reps in a set. That means going heavy, and when it's heavy you have to have a perfect form so you do not get injured and even sometimes with perfect form you can get injured. Also, training the same body part 3 x week at some decent intensity is very difficult. I would not be able to do deadlifts or squats 3 times per week and staying with the same weights at each session but hey, I'm just human. I'm not going to say it is 100 per cent wrong :-). Try it! See if it works for you. If it gives you good results, don't change it. If you're growing, don't change it, even if somebody else says its wrong.

kevpants

kansatsu wrote: »

Abs - I believe in high reps and by high reps i mean at least 30-40 per set. I am also totally against using dumbbells or some other extra weight when doing crunches etc. That may just expand your waistline. You will build up the muscle but it will expand your waistline. This is a personal preference, but I don't like the way professional bodybuilders look at the moment. 100cm in waist? Are you kidding me? After Frank Zane retired it all just went downhill when it comes to abs.


I will also add a few words about 5x5 so the Irish National Powerlifting Elite here can reply with some "you are 100 per cent wrong kansatsu" comments ;-) . I have done it a few years ago. I just found it difficult to fail at 5 reps in a set (as in not being able to do the 6th rep). You have to find weight that will let you do 5 reps in a set. That means going heavy, and when it's heavy you have to have a perfect form so you do not get injured and even sometimes with perfect form you can get injured. Also, training the same body part 3 x week at some decent intensity is very difficult. I would not be able to do deadlifts or squats 3 times per week and staying with the same weights at each session but hey, I'm just human. I'm not going to say it is 100 per cent wrong :-). Try it! See if it works for you. If it gives you good results, don't change it. If you're growing, don't change it, even if somebody else says its wrong.

Hanley

kansatsu wrote: »

I think it may be the way you performed your presses. If you are keeping the dumbbels too close to your body then most of the job is done with your triceps. Try a slightly wider position (with your biceps, elbow and your forearm forming a 90 degree angle). If you struggle with proper technique, you can try using a barbell instead.




Yes, any kind of free weights exercise is superior to a machine. Machines have a fixed range of motion and they stabilize the weight for you, your only task is to push, pull, press etc. You do not have to worry about balancing the weight and keeping it under control meaning that there is less work performed by your muscles.




Preachers are usually used to finish off your biceps but if they work for you then you can do them instead. Just remember that if you want to increase your arms you have to focus on your triceps. Your biceps is one of the smallest muscles in your body and it can develop well when being used as a secondary muscle (when doing rows, pull ups etc) without any direct biceps exercises.



That's not a warm up. For your warm up you can use 50 per cent of your max rep weight and do at least the same number of reps as your main set (I would suggest more, 12-16). Doing just four reps is not enough, you have to get that blood flowing into the muscle so higher reps ;-)



Try the same weight next week, if you still can't do 8 then decrease the weight. You got yourself a starting point with all those reps and weights used. Open an excel spreadsheet if you have excel and start recording your results there. It is much handier than going through the pages of a logbook. When you start a new week aim for more reps or weight in all your exercises. Even if it is only one rep more or 1kg or 0.5kg more. You did 12 reps with 10 kg dumbbells yesterday (chest). Try if you can do 8 reps with 12kgs (good form).




First, check if your pushdown machine is in kg or pounds. Machine setting 6 will not tell you anything and if you change gyms and the other will have different way of distributing weight it will be difficult to keep the record of your progress. Most of them will be in pounds (going as far as 240 etc)

Make sure you have your elbows close to the body and the only body part that should be moving is your forearms. IF you are leaning forward, moving up your traps and using momentum then the weight is too heavy.



If you can perform 10 good form reps, you can increase the weight and try doing 6 - 8 good form reps. You will discover that some of your body parts will respond to lower reps 6-8, others to higher (12 or even more). At the moment, you are just trying to learn the proper technique so try staying in the higher rep range.



1-2 warm up sets per muscle group is enough. For example, you can use push ups as a warm up before doing chest.



This depends on how much time you have at your disposal. If you feel like going to the gym 6 times, then you can do your cardio on your rest days. The best way to do your cardio is either the very first thing in the morning
or after weights session. I prefer to do it in the morning as the only thing I can think about after weights is food and I do not want to wait any longer ;-)



As far as I remember, you're 28 so 160 is about 83 per cent of your maximum heart rate. If your aim is to improve your heart & stamina then this is ok. If you want to burn fat, then this is too intense. (Unless you are doing intervals and then this is not intense enough! ;-). Various sources say that it should be from 60 to 70 per cent of your max so in your case that would be 115 to 135 bpm 40 to 60 minutes (you can also try intervals if you are reasonably fit, it only takes 20 minutes but seems much longer that that 40-60 of medium intenstity cardio), but then again if your diet is bad no cardio will help you burn that excess body fat



This is your personal preference, choose what you like, cardio is boring and mundane so pick the one that you think will keep you going for a longer period of time. I personally do bike. The only thing that may be difficult for you is going to the gym 6 times per week. 6 days is a lot and sometimes you will feel like skipping it so consider doing cardio at home in the morning (if you have some equipment) or after weights.




Abs - I believe in high reps and by high reps i mean at least 30-40 per set. I am also totally against using dumbbells or some other extra weight when doing crunches etc. That may just expand your waistline. You will build up the muscle but it will expand your waistline. This is a personal preference, but I don't like the way professional bodybuilders look at the moment. 100cm in waist? Are you kidding me? After Frank Zane retired it all just went downhill when it comes to abs.


I will also add a few words about 5x5 so the Irish National Powerlifting Elite here can reply with some "you are 100 per cent wrong kansatsu" comments ;-) . I have done it a few years ago. I just found it difficult to fail at 5 reps in a set (as in not being able to do the 6th rep). You have to find weight that will let you do 5 reps in a set. That means going heavy, and when it's heavy you have to have a perfect form so you do not get injured and even sometimes with perfect form you can get injured. Also, training the same body part 3 x week at some decent intensity is very difficult. I would not be able to do deadlifts or squats 3 times per week and staying with the same weights at each session but hey, I'm just human. I'm not going to say it is 100 per cent wrong :-). Try it! See if it works for you. If it gives you good results, don't change it. If you're growing, don't change it, even if somebody else says its wrong.

you are 100 per cent wrong kansatsu

Hanley

kevpants wrote: »

Eff-wyyy-pee

deadlybuzzman

kansatsu wrote: »

I will also add a few words about 5x5 so the Irish National Powerlifting Elite here can reply with some "you are 100 per cent wrong kansatsu" comments ;-) . I have done it a few years ago. I just found it difficult to fail at 5 reps in a set (as in not being able to do the 6th rep). You have to find weight that will let you do 5 reps in a set. That means going heavy, and when it's heavy you have to have a perfect form so you do not get injured and even sometimes with perfect form you can get injured. Also, training the same body part 3 x week at some decent intensity is very difficult. I would not be able to do deadlifts or squats 3 times per week and staying with the same weights at each session but hey, I'm just human. I'm not going to say it is 100 per cent wrong :-). Try it! See if it works for you. If it gives you good results, don't change it. If you're growing, don't change it, even if somebody else says its wrong.

Speaking as someone thats done both aproaches theres a few things that spring to mind here.
-I did the train to failure routines out of Musclemag/Flex for years, grew enough to think I was doing ok for a bit at the start but then nothing, didnt get any stronger or bigger for years. They might work well for John Meadows or Labrada but not for a normal beginner, you cant get strong while training to failure all the time, exhibit A is myself and all the other lost skinny souls you see in gyms E Z Curling themselves into oblivion.

-Youre missing the whole point of 5x5 and the like, youre not aiming for failure, youre aiming for progress, small hiccups aside if you can add 2.5-5kg to your squat deadlift and bench 3 times per week for 6 months thats some serious progress

-Training the same bodypart 3 times a week is not difficult when youre a beginner and not going to failure as the weights arent that heavy that you need a week to recover

-That said I did do DC for a while lately, it was grand as a change and Ive nothing against it but I do remember Trudel who invented it saying himself that things like training to failure, rest pauses etc shouldnt be done by beginners who need to get strong first

zzfh

bench, rows, squat, deadlift, pullups, overheadpress.

anything else is fluff. this....

ManwitaPlan

Jaysus...no offence guys I am pretty sure evrybody who posted advice on here knows more than me but this thread is downright confusing for the chap.

He has come on asking for advice and he has been given ten different programmes and conflicting advice from everybody.

People have said Bench, Squat, Press, Row, Deadlift and thats pretty spot on but also pretty useless to somebody who has no idea what they are doing.

DUSF, you need to pick a programme and stick to it. To my mind the only three programmes I would personally recommend to a beginner are Stronglifts, Starting strength or Wendler 5/3/1. Not saying these are the best programmes in the world just saying millions of beginners have used them and gotten good results so great place to start.

Stronglifts: http://stronglifts.com/secret-5x5-report/

I started on this back in Jan..exercises are Squat, DeadLift, row, bench press, overhead press. you do 5 sets of 5 reps of three of the exercices(always including squat) three days a week.

Will get **** on here no doubt but its a solid place to start and easy to follow:

Starting Strength: Massively popular book by Mark Rippetoe....exercises are Squat, Deadlift, bench press, overhead press, power clean. You do 3 sets of 5 reps (with two warm up sets) of three of the exercices(always including squat) three days a week. Hmmmmm...remind you of anything. Thousands of beginners have used this programme to great effect. If you dont want to read the book just google.

5/3/1: Ebook by Jim wendler. exercises are Squat, Deadlift, bench press, and overhead press...are you noticing a pattern here??? A little more complicated than the above programmes and progression is slower which means more suited to people who have been lifting a while but it is a lot more flexible than the other two programmes so worth a look.

Google these three programmes, pick one and stick to it for three months and report back.


PS. Why when gyms design programmes for people do they nearly exclusively revolve around machines and 20 sets of 30 reps in each exercise? Is it that their afraid of injury / insurance or is it a case they want people to use the shiny machines they have spent thousands on..I reckon you would struggle to find a personal trainer in any commercial gym who would advise Squats, deadlift etc to a new guy which seems wierd to me.