Greatest Manager in GAA

mickey1979

Lots of talk about the players in GAA but who is the greatest general of them all.
Sean Boylan?
Micko Dwyer?
Mickey Harte?
someone who trained a junior b to win an all Ireland Senior club I don't know you tell me

Hammer Archer

You do know the GAA also consists of hurling? Brian Cody is there along with the three you mentioned.
I'm extremely biased but to me, I'd give it to Boylan. The fact that he brought a Meath team that was regularly being beaten by the likes of Longford and Wexford in the early 80s to two All Ireland championships was a testament to his managerial skill. As well as this, he assembled a completely new team to win two more All Irelands in 1996 and 1999.
And a nicer man you couldn't hope to meet.

brandon_flowers

Micko in football, no doubt. Dr Eamon O'Sullivan would be second from a Kerry perspective.

In Hurling, Brian Cody for success, Ger Loughnane for underdogs.

brandon_flowers

.

DB10

John Maughan
Joe Kernan
Eamonn Coleman
Jack O Connor

All worth a mention.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056345187

mickey1979

Fair enough not a Hurling man but we can throw in hurling and maybe compare:D I think all-time as there are some managers I have no idea about i.e before 1980 what about Eugene Mcgee

padd b1975

Pete McGrath is worth a mention and Cyril Farrell in Hurling.

ProudDUB

Heffo. 'Nuff said.

mickey1979

Think if this Match keeps rolling Donegal might be looking a beatification

shaneb92

Without a doubt Brian Cody, and thats coming from a Tipp supporter

Mick O'Dwyer by a mile. The only man to have success with different counties over a few decades.

Who was responsible for Down and their revolutionary football in the 60s? Was it Barney Carr?

shaneb92

shaneb92 wrote: »

Without a doubt Brian Cody, and thats coming from a Tipp supporter

Id second that. Before Cody came in the hurling championship was considerably open and few would fear playing Kilkenny. He brought a ferocious intensity to the game that left the rest playing catch up for years. While the rest were snoozing at the wheel, Cody was planning years in advance.

Diabhal Beag

You can't make a better argument for anybody than Brian Cody. Head and shoulders above the rest.

Hammer Archer

Hammer Archer wrote: »

You do know the GAA also consists of hurling? Brian Cody is there along with the three you mentioned.
I'm extremely biased but to me, I'd give it to Boylan. The fact that he brought a Meath team that was regularly being beaten by the likes of Longford and Wexford in the early 80s to two All Ireland championships was a testament to his managerial skill. As well as this, he assembled a completely new team to win two more All Irelands in 1996 and 1999.
And a nicer man you couldn't hope to meet.

Great time for Boylan myself. Id say your county board (like alot of county boards especially our own) are not the easiest to deal with and the loyalty Boylan showed to Meath football for near 20 years was incredible.

Diabhal Beag

Diabhal Beag wrote: »

You can't make a better argument for anybody than Brian Cody. Head and shoulders above the rest.

I can.

It's not a very competitive game, in that for much of his time all he has had to do was produce a team better than one county, Tipp.

And he has only done it with one county, which did have extraordinary players in that time.

O'Dwyer had enormous success with Kerry, when they had to get passed Cork every year before going on to face great sides like Dublin or Offaly. He then brought Kildare and Laos to new heights. Maybe if Cody wins a provincial title with other sides he can stand up there with Micko.

bijapos

Deleted User wrote: »

I can.

It's not a very competitive game, in that for much of his time all he has had to do was produce a team better than one county, Tipp.

And he has only done it with one county, which did have extraordinary players in that time.

O'Dwyer had enormous success with Kerry, when they had to get passed Cork every year before going on to face great sides like Dublin or Offaly. He then brought Kildare and Laos to new heights. Maybe if Cody wins a provincial title with other sides he can stand up there with Micko.

Ehhh.... he also prevented Cork doing a 3-in-a-row in 2006 so he had to get past them too.

In football I'd say Mick O'Dwyer, followed by Boylan and Heffernan.

In Hurling I'd give it to Cody though you can't forget the influence of people like Fr. Tommy Maher on the game as well.

kksaints

Deleted User wrote: »

I can.

It's not a very competitive game, in that for much of his time all he has had to do was produce a team better than one county, Tipp.

And he has only done it with one county, which did have extraordinary players in that time.

O'Dwyer had enormous success with Kerry, when they had to get passed Cork every year before going on to face great sides like Dublin or Offaly. He then brought Kildare and Laos to new heights. Maybe if Cody wins a provincial title with other sides he can stand up there with Micko.

Never knew Micko was a globe trotting manager.:eek:

kksaints

kksaints wrote: »

Never knew Micko was a globe trotting manager.:eek:

And you also have to remember this was a county that suffered terribly during 'Nam!

kksaints

kksaints wrote: »

Never knew Micko was a globe trotting manager.:eek:

To be fair, you wouldn't put it past him either.

Micko No.1 without a doubt (and I say that as a Dub). Then it's close between a few: Heffernan, Boylan, Dr. Eamonn and Harte.

I'm restricting myself to football as I can't honestly say I know enough about hurling historically to look beyond the modern managers.

eigrod

Cody in hurling and O' Dwyer in football.

Sunnyisland

Mick o'dwyer/Brian cody/kevin heffernan/sean boylan.

ShamoBuc

Due respect, Cody.

RealityCheck

Honourable mention to John O'Mahony who guided Galway and Leitrim to historic success. Never worked out with his home county. He'd be a contender but for that.

In reality. Brian Cody in the hurling and Micky Harte maybe in the football. Quite a few contenders in the football. Kernan, Boylan etc. Harte trumps them as he guided his county to their first ever titles.

DazMarz

Football: Mick O'Dwyer (a great man, and an absolute gentleman. When he speaks in a room, he is not loud or forceful, but everyone is quiet and listens to him. 8 All-Ireland titles as a manager with Kerry, bringing Laois and Kildare to new heights and giving Wicklow an unforgettable run in the All-Ireland series a couple of years back. A legend).

Hurling: Brian Cody (nurtured up a golden generation for Kilkenny and came agonisingly close to the elusive 5-in-a-row; but 5 All Irelands in 6 years is some acheivement.)

Bizzum

Cody has the Hurling wrapped up now at this stage.

I'd have huge time for Sean Boylan with honourable mention to Mickey Harte.

johnayo

JBM in hurling,

Conor Counihan in football.
Sure 'twas obvious.:D:D:D

RealityCheck

johnayo wrote: »

JBM in hurling,

Conor Counihan in football.
Sure 'twas obvious.:D:D:D

I reckon Counihan gets the vote as one of the more over rated managers. Failed to get more out of a very talented Cork panel and at times had no idea of his best team or tactic.

ShamoBuc

RealityCheck wrote: »

I reckon Counihan gets the vote as one of the more over rated managers. Failed to get more out of a very talented Cork panel and at times had no idea of his best team or tactic.

He might win us Sam this year, which would mean Sam coming to Leeside twice in 3 years - in relation to our history of winning Sam - you would surely agree that it merits praise!

Kristopherus

eigrod wrote: »

Cody in hurling and O' Dwyer in football.

+1. And both by a country mile.

RealityCheck

ShamoBuc wrote: »

He might win us Sam this year, which would mean Sam coming to Leeside twice in 3 years - in relation to our history of winning Sam - you would surely agree that it merits praise!

In fairness it probably does and it would probably mean that monkey would be off his back but if he doesn't, questions should be asked. I think its there for them if they want it.

MfMan

Mattie Murphy?

StupidLikeAFox

RealityCheck wrote: »

I reckon Counihan gets the vote as one of the more over rated managers. Failed to get more out of a very talented Cork panel and at times had no idea of his best team or tactic.

Ah now, he became manager in 2008

2008: Munster Champions, AI Semi finalists
2009: Munster Champions, AI Finalists
2010: Beat by 1 point by Kerry in Munster Championship, AI Champions
2011: Poor season, ****e throughout
2012: All-Ireland Semi-Finalists (so far; all ireland favourites in many peoples opinions)

Thats leaving out his league success, as a Kildare man I'd take Conor Counihans record any day!

mickey1979

I don't know what happened pre 1980 but surely there is a Herbert Chapman from the past in Gaelic Football I learned of Fr T Maher yesterday. There must of been an innovator from the past. Eugene Mcgee has to be up there not everyone's choice but Offaly are an unreal county for it population. Who managed Louth 1957. Louth for godsake he must have been good.

mickey1979

mickey1979 wrote: »

I don't know what happened pre 1980 but surely there is a Herbert Chapman from the past in Gaelic Football I learned of Fr T Maher yesterday. There must of been an innovator from the past. Eugene Mcgee has to be up there not everyone's choice but Offaly are an unreal county for it population. Who managed Louth 1957. Louth for godsake he must have been good.

Dr Eamon O'Sullivan, who coached Kerry to 8 titles.

Barney Carr. Think it was he who coached Down in the 60s and changed the way the game is played.

Hulk Hands

Mickey Harte imo. With all due respect to the Tyrone players during the 00's, that side on talent alone wasn't good enough to win 3 All Irelands. Yet with Harte's guidance they achieved it

randd1

Cody in the hurling, Micko in the football.

As for the best overall its a toss-up between the two, at the moment I'd just about give it to Micko, purely on the basis of longevity and has improved the standard in other counties too that he's taken over.

But if Cody goes on to win the AI this year, or stays on after this year and has more success, he'll sow up the number 1 spot in my view.

boxer.fan

Hulk Hands wrote: »

Mickey Harte imo. With all due respect to the Tyrone players during the 00's, that side on talent alone wasn't good enough to win 3 All Irelands. Yet with Harte's guidance they achieved it

Spot on!

closeline

Depending on how much success he gets Jim McGuinness will be one. What manager could have got this Donegal team this far. I know they haven't won an all Ireland yet but I fully expect them to win one.

ciarriaithuaidh

Hulk Hands wrote: »

Mickey Harte imo. With all due respect to the Tyrone players during the 00's, that side on talent alone wasn't good enough to win 3 All Irelands. Yet with Harte's guidance they achieved it

You what?

Canavan, McGuigan, Kavanagh, Jordan, Gormley, O'Neill, Dooher...all amongst the greatest footballers of this generation..Canavan, of ANY generation.

Make an argument for Mickey Harte if you want, but to say he had no talent to worth with is ludicrous IMO.
Harte did win Minor, U-21 & 3 Senior AI's AND did it without a traditional style midfield which was pretty revolutionary,so has a strong case.

I am biased, but it has to be O'Dwyer (in football) for me. The achievements with Laois & Kildare are what seal it. Boylan was outstanding and built a completely new Meath team in the late 90's also. Heffo has to be up there, for raising the Dubs to their apex in the 70's and early 80's.

Cody surely uncontested at the top of the hurling pile?

Hulk Hands

ciarriaithuaidh wrote: »

You what?

Canavan, McGuigan, Kavanagh, Jordan, Gormley, O'Neill, Dooher...all amongst the greatest footballers of this generation..Canavan, of ANY generation.

Make an argument for Mickey Harte if you want, but to say he had no talent to worth with is ludicrous IMO.

I think he had plenty of talent. However, over the last 15-20 years, do I think he had much more talent than very good Meath, Cork, Galway and Armagh sides? Probably not. However, none of these sides won 3 All Ireland's, and two of them only won one.

I'm not getting into the merits of how talented Tyrone were. They had some awesome players, and in Sean Cavanagh especially, one of the best players we'll see for a while. However, I think Kerry had a better side throughout that decade, yet Tyrone beat them on every occasion. Harte can take a lot of that credit.

closeline

Could Harte, O'Dwyer etc. do what McGuinness is doing at the moment???

mickey1979

I don't know but John O Mahony did. He would be here only for his disaster with Mayo I would hope he returns to management again prob not but one of the better ones

ciarriaithuaidh

Hulk Hands wrote: »

I think he had plenty of talent. However, over the last 15-20 years, do I think he had much more talent than very good Meath, Cork, Galway and Armagh sides? Probably not. However, none of these sides won 3 All Ireland's, and two of them only won one.

I'm not getting into the merits of how talented Tyrone were. They had some awesome players, and in Sean Cavanagh especially, one of the best players we'll see for a while. However, I think Kerry had a better side throughout that decade, yet Tyrone beat them on every occasion. Harte can take a lot of that credit.

I disagree entirely.

1. Go look at the list of players I posted above...making an argument to the effect that Tyrone had less talent than ANY side during the 2000's is wrong IMo...Cork and Meath???? Did you actually watch Cork or Meath play in the 2000's...Cork being dumped out of c/ships by Fermanagh and Roscommon? Ring a bell?

2. I think you could make an argument that in 2008 Kerry had a better side and should have beaten Tyrone ...but not 2003 or 2005. Tyrone were dominant for the majority of that game and only a great goal by Tomás O'Sé brought Kerry back into it...right before Canavan kicked one of the best scores I've ever seen from underneath the Cusack stand to snuff out a comeback.

68Murph68

Micko has to be number one for me and this is down to his record outside Kerry. Its one thing to achieve success when you have the strongest panel/players but to achieve success as Micko did with Kildare, Laois and Wicklow where he was working with much more limited squads than he had during his time in Kerry.

A lot of the other candidates its very hard to judge where to separate them from the good players they've been in charge of. I think both Jack O'Connor and Conor Counihan would be seen as managers who have benefited from the having extremely strong panels - of the success both teams achieved under both of them how much would have been achieved if someone different was in charge? Even with Jack's underage success it's fair to say he had very strong dedicated squads under him. how much would you attribute to their influence? having watched both of them, it's fair to say neither of them have impressed me all that much in terms of their strategy and game intelligence in terms of substitutions.

With Cody you have to factor in the lack of competition overall in the hurling (how many serious All-Ireland contenders have there been every year) as well as the quality of the players under him making things much easier (how many years have Kilkenny had the strongest panel?) . Chances are that if you had installed someone who knew absolutely nothing about hurling they would probably have still managed to pick up a All-Ireland or two over the course of Cody's tenure given the strength of Kilkenny's panel and the amount of competition faced. Not saying he is a bad or average manager or anything like that but I think he has some uncertainty compared to Micko when it comes to saying greatest GAA manager ever.

Basically there is a lot of questions marks over some of the bigger name managers that will only be put to rest if they coach weak squads? How would Brian Cody fare with the Kerry hurlers? How would Jack O'Connor or Conor Counihan fare with a team like Clare or Waterford's footballers?

Hulk Hands

ciarriaithuaidh wrote: »

I disagree entirely.

1. Go look at the list of players I posted above...making an argument to the effect that Tyrone had less talent than ANY side during the 2000's is wrong IMo...Cork and Meath???? Did you actually watch Cork or Meath play in the 2000's...Cork being dumped out of c/ships by Fermanagh and Roscommon? Ring a bell?

My post read "in the last 15 years". So that the Cork side from 08- present, and the Meath side of 96-01 etc. And for every player you listed above, I can name a player on one of the other sides I mentioned who was as good if not better (bar Cavanagh).

Tyrone we're much more the sum of parts than any individual. They were a collective beast and Harte created that

aidan24326

Sean Boylan for me.

He took Meath from whipping boys to top dogs and then built a whole new team that won two more All-Irelands in the 90s. Those Meath teams had an incredible never-say-die attitude that's a huge credit to Boylan and the spirit he created in the camp.

He took relatively ordinary footballers and turned them into champions. Lads that were playing junior and intermediate football pulled on a Meath jersey and became stars under Boylan. It's amazing what he did really.

Big shout to Brian Cody too for the way he keeps this Kilkenny team motivated and the hunger and passion he's instilled in them despite all the medals and awards they have.

ciarriaithuaidh

Hulk Hands wrote: »

My post read "in the last 15 years". So that the Cork side from 08- present, and the Meath side of 96-01 etc. And for every player you listed above, I can name a player on one of the other sides I mentioned who was as good if not better (bar Cavanagh).

Tyrone we're much more the sum of parts than any individual. They were a collective beast and Harte created that

Ok, name the Cork players 2008 to present who are "as good if not better", than O'Neill, Canavan, Jordan, McGuigan, Gormley, McMenamin, Dooher, Cavlan...and maybe give me some theory as to why these players have won only 1 All Ireland if they as good as you claim.

Hulk Hands

ciarriaithuaidh wrote: »

Ok, name the Cork players 2008 to present who are "as good if not better",

First of all, I meant on all the teams 4 teams I mentioned. Way to go picking the one team who has the least 'star players' also and are more a sum of parts than stars. For what it's worth, I's take O'Connor, Kissane, Canty, Lynch and Kelly over O'Neill, Jordan, Gormley, McMenamin and Dooher respectively. Calvan doesnt deserve to be in the conversation.

I took Canavan out because although there is noone as good as him, he barely played in the 03 final and he started only the final in 05, so its not fair to include him. McGuigan doesn't have an alike in the Cork side. But while we include him, why not include excellent players like o'Leary, Walsh and Shields.

I think both teams are fairly evenly matched on talent, although remember that Cork hammered Tyrone in 09 when Tyrone were champions. Yet one has 3 All Irelands and one has one. Why? A number of factors, but Harte's brilliance is the biggest one.

ciarriaithuaidh wrote: »

and maybe give me some theory as to why these players have won only 1 All Ireland if they as good as you claim.

Em.....The manager and tactics, what this whole argument is about. I am not claiming them to be world beaters. I'm claiming them to be as talented as Tyrone during the 90's

ciarriaithuaidh

Hulk Hands wrote: »

First of all, I meant on all the teams 4 teams I mentioned. Way to go picking the one team who has the least 'star players' also and are more a sum of parts than stars. For what it's worth, I's take O'Connor, Kissane, Canty, Lynch and Kelly over O'Neill, Jordan, Gormley, McMenamin and Dooher respectively. Calvan doesnt deserve to be in the conversation.

I took Canavan out because although there is noone as good as him, he barely played in the 03 final and he started only the final in 05, so its not fair to include him. McGuigan doesn't have an alike in the Cork side. But while we include him, why not include excellent players like o'Leary, Walsh and Shields.

I think both teams are fairly evenly matched on talent, although remember that Cork hammered Tyrone in 09 when Tyrone were champions. Yet one has 3 All Irelands and one has one. Why? A number of factors, but Harte's brilliance is the biggest one.



Em.....The manager and tactics, what this whole argument is about. I am not claiming them to be world beaters. I'm claiming them to be as talented as Tyrone during the 90's

Kissane? Ahead of Jordan....rrright. Lets just leave it there shall we.

The 4 teams you originally mentioned were Cork, Meath, Armagh and Galway? Yes?...You telling me that ANY Armagh team of the last 15 years had more talent than Tyrone?

"I'm claiming them to be as talented as Tyrone during the 90's."

The 90's?? We're talking about your claim that Mickey Harte is the greatest GAA manager ever on the basis that he had (according to you) less talent than others to work with...the 90's are relevant to the debate alright...thats when the extraordinarily talented Tyrone minor team won their first Minor title in 25 years. At a guess, I'd say 8 of them won Senior AI medals.

Hulk Hands

Ahhh sshhh will ya. That was obviously a typo. I meant the 00's. It says a lot about your intelligence that you thought I was actually saying that.

Kissane is an excellent footballer which you should realise if you watched football closely. He's integral to the way Cork play.

And yes I thought the Armagh team of 2002-2005 had as much talent as Tyrone. Tyrone were better managed under Harte than Armagh under Kernan. And that's not a slight on Kernan either

Stanza2

Mentioned earlier in this tread....... Barney Carr. Down team of 60/61 was ground breaking in a way that no other team could hope to emulate. He brought in Peter McDermott from Meath to do specific coaching. Maurice Hayes as back up to ensure that his players had the best of everything.

First team to bring Sam across the border a year after winning their first Ulster title.
First team to give track suits to its subs.
First team to play open expansive football
First team to train properly with weights and give players diets to follow
First team to change its strip and wear black shorts in lieu of white ones (ridiculed by GAA for doing so)
Biggest crowd ever at not just a GAA match, but at any single sporting event in Ireland in 61 final(90 thousand odd)
Won tournaments in Wembley (first player to score a hat trick on the Wembley sod was a young player on this team)
Toured USA in early sixties to play all over to large expat crowds.
Played in 3 finals in the sixties and won all 3
Never ever got a public reception in Belfast or any government body in the North, the players could not even vote in their own county in the early sixties.

Even Mr O'Dwyer would admit that they raised the bar in such a way other counties had to change to get better.

No team could come close, no matter how many titles they won. For me, this team was the most historic and as such with the foresight that must have been required, I believe that Barney Carr was the greatest GAA manager of all time

This team was ground breaking in every sense