Petition against surf school ban from Lahinch car park

AntHraxEater

Clare County Council have decided to stop surf schools in Lahinch using the main car park. Sign the petition to protest the move.

From a safety point of view Clare CoCo have made a poor decision – check out this post on Surfaroundireland.com for a full explanation. Until a few weeks ago surf instructors could use the car park to monitor sessions, now they are stuck looking at a golf course. Lifeguards do a great job but they are only employed for the Summer months. So - if you're interested in supporting our local surf industry this is a great way to do it, just put your name down.

fd

prob would be better if it didnt make you donate to sign the petition....

AntHraxEater

No donation is required to sign.

fd wrote: »

prob would be better if it didnt make you donate to sign the petition....

rodento

Would be problem be solved if the surf schools offered to pay for the parking places they use up

Mickeroo

rodento wrote: »

Would be problem be solved if the surf schools offered to pay for the parking places they use up

I would have thought they were already doing that what with it being Pay & Display there?

rodento

Hard to feel sorry for them after reading this

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2012/0725/1224320764517.html

They could have represented themselves better by engaging with the local authority on the issue

noserider

Poor location for surf schools for their businesses and employment.
Alot of surf lessons are booked as people pass and think "sure why not give this a go". Visibilty is key for passing trade. People who want to go surfing will find them anyway but what proportion do they make of total lessons.

The proliferation of people renting boards and acting as surf schools is an issue though. Whats to stop any Joe Soap investing in soft boards and renting them from the back of a van?. The the relocation to the back car park is not the solution though.

Has the move got something to do with the casual trading by laws??

zoobizoo

From what I heard, one of the surf shops in the town has been behind it.

The Surf schools make that town what it is. I've met loads of people through one of the schools and it would encourage me to surf there because of it.

The council might be better served cleaning the prom more often, investing in flags (used to show swimming area) which surfers can see while in the water and maybe improving the horrendous public toilets there.

CRenegade

rodento wrote: »

Would be problem be solved if the surf schools offered to pay for the parking places they use up

I'm sure the casual Traders Licence fee would be payment enough for the temporary use of the area.
Also, the Council should open their eyes and see the amount of money which surfing brings into the town, these businesses attract tourists on a regular basis; these tourists spend plenty of money in the area when there.

Regarding the Irish Times article, It does appar that only one of the surf schools put in a submission (I dont know the reason for this), however should the concept of keeping the surf schools along the prom be dismissed because of this?

I know for sure that Bens surf clinic put in a submission which I have read and it specifically details the need to be located along the Prom for many reasons, why should his business be destroyed because his competitors failed to make a submission?

Minutes from the County Council Meeting where the decision was made on the Bye-laws states:

The report states that the reason for the amendment to the existing parking Bye Laws is to make provision for a safer Promenade in Lahinch for the public using this amenity. Traditionally swimmers and walkers used the beach. In the past ten years surfing and other water-sports have become very popular and now, due to the number of people using Lahinch, for different reasons, it is felt that some form of regulation must exist to protect all users and to ensure that this amenity will still appeal to all users.

It looks like serious consideration was given to this issue in the meeting! :rolleyes:

CRenegade

CRenegade wrote: »

I know for sure that Bens surf clinic put in a submission which I have read and it specifically details the need to be located along the Prom for many reasons, why should his business be destroyed because his competitors failed to make a submission?

Sorry I dont think it was Bens submission that was included but rather another surf school. Regardless, I have read the reasons in detail as to why the surf schools should be located on the prom.
It looks like the Council are trying their best to limit surfing activity and the freedom of surfing in Lahinch and the wider area!

zoobizoo

"I refer to your recent correspondence regarding new bylaws introduced by Clare County Council and their impact on surf schools operating from the car park at the promenade in Lahinch, Co, Clare, the contents of which I have noted.

It is my understanding that Clare County Council are endeavouring to balance the demands of surfers and non-surfers alike as well as the safety of all beach users. In that regard the making of bylaws is a matter for the relevant local authority, in this case Clare County Council, and I have no authority or function in relation to the matter.


Yours sincerely



_______________
Leo Varadkar T.D.
Minister for Transport, Tourism and Sport"

Brick Session

zoobizoo wrote: »

From what I heard, one of the surf shops in the town has been behind it.

The Surf schools make that town what it is. I've met loads of people through one of the schools and it would encourage me to surf there because of it.

The council might be better served cleaning the prom more often, investing in flags (used to show swimming area) which surfers can see while in the water and maybe improving the horrendous public toilets there.

Was only up there last week with the family. I totally agree that the council would be better served cleaning up the place. This will probably offend (and before I get attacked, I live in Tramore which looks dreadful around the prom and amusement areas so I am not picking on Lahinch) but Lahinch looks quite shabby for the past number of years and if not for the surf and surf school would anything attract you to Lahinch apart from Golf and the road to Liscannor and the Cliffs etc.

In my opinion, the Surf Schools, The Surf Shops and the Clare County Council might be better off working together to attract visitors into Lahinch instead of squabbling and sending out bad signals to the potential visitors to the town.

lesserspottedchloe

zoobizoo wrote: »

From what I heard, one of the surf shops in the town has been behind it.

The Surf schools make that town what it is. I've met loads of people through one of the schools and it would encourage me to surf there because of it.

The council might be better served cleaning the prom more often, investing in flags (used to show swimming area) which surfers can see while in the water and maybe improving the horrendous public toilets there.

Couldn't agree more, talk about 'biting the hand that feeds you'?!
I mean lets be honest there are far more beautiful beaches that are also good wave spots other than Lahinch. The surf schools are a huge year-round attraction that the Council should be doing their best to accomodate.

rodento

CRenegade wrote: »

I'm sure the casual Traders Licence fee would be payment enough for the temporary use of the area.
Also, the Council should open their eyes and see the amount of money which surfing brings into the town, these businesses attract tourists on a regular basis; these tourists spend plenty of money in the area when there.

Regarding the Irish Times article, It does appar that only one of the surf schools put in a submission (I dont know the reason for this), however should the concept of keeping the surf schools along the prom be dismissed because of this?

I know for sure that Bens surf clinic put in a submission which I have read and it specifically details the need to be located along the Prom for many reasons, why should his business be destroyed because his competitors failed to make a submission?

Minutes from the County Council Meeting where the decision was made on the Bye-laws states:

The report states that the reason for the amendment to the existing parking Bye Laws is to make provision for a safer Promenade in Lahinch for the public using this amenity. Traditionally swimmers and walkers used the beach. In the past ten years surfing and other water-sports have become very popular and now, due to the number of people using Lahinch, for different reasons, it is felt that some form of regulation must exist to protect all users and to ensure that this amenity will still appeal to all users.

It looks like serious consideration was given to this issue in the meeting! :rolleyes:

Looks like a motion from a FG councillor Bill Slattery

He also proposed new bylaws should be introduced prohibiting trading on Lahinch promenade as well as setting down a designated area for surfers to carry out their business.
While surfers were welcome in Lahinch, he stressed the needs of holidaymakers and day-trippers also needs to be taken into account.
“There are no controls in place on the promenade at the moment; vans, camper vans and caravans are all over the place. The promenade is being clogged up with surfers and surfers’ equipment. Swimmers can’t swim and people can’t go for a walk.

http://www.clarechampion.ie/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=9062:little-progress-on-lahinch-prom-plan&catid=66:north&Itemid=56

keryl

I would blame the council to be honest, they set the laws and if there was a real interest in serving the public, there simply wouldn't be an issue.
Why can't they simply set things in place and create an infrastructure that looks the part and suits everyone. They make a lot of money in seaside towns, meet it half way and deliver the goods... Learn from other countries, tourism is essential for the country and will only get bigger depending on how they improve it...

zoobizoo

If the council invested in some large poles to delineate the swimming area, the problem in the water would be solved. As it is, one can barely see the 5ft high flags whether a surfer or a swimmer. The life guards have asked the council to no avail.

The prom isn't bunged up by surfers, nor is the carpark. I was down there last week and while there were about 100 surfers (including schools) in the water, there was no issues on the prom or in the carpark - nor have I ever seen any issues.

Will the Perriwinkle guy be barred too?

The council should probably sweep up all the broken glass from the carpark..... maybe they could use some of the money they collect on the car park to pay someone to do it... and put in some nicer toilets (I hate having to use the swish ones in O'Looneys ).

listermint

The only reason i travelled down to Lahinch when i was in clare last year, and i mean the ONLY reason was for the surf schools.

I dont understand closing down revenue generating local businesses that are actively attracting visitors

rodento

To be fair we do not know if anyone ever contacted the council or local councillors over surfers blocking access or getting in the way of families/people with disabilities walking along the pathway of the car park.


Maybe worth someone putting in a FOI request to see if any complaints have been received about surfers

No good names left

That's a good idea Rodento about the FOI. The surf schools should request that as a starting point.

The surf schools pay the going rate for any parking spaces they take up, on top of the licence fee.

At the end of the day, the Councillors will push for whatever they see as attracting themost votes - so if there is a co-ordinated campaign to local Councillors from people living in the area there is more likely to be a reversal. The problem is most likely that the people writing in are from outside the County, and their votes won't matter to the Clare County Councilors. Still worth writing anyway though.

I disagree with Leo Varadkars response - as Minister for Sports and Tourism he is in a position to write to Clare County Council to advise that their byelaws are having a negative impact upon surfing, which is a sport that is of economic importance and attracts international tourism to Ireland.

ben bennett

thanks for all the comment etc. let me get a few clear facts out there.

Lahinch surf experience but in the only submission.
I acting for bens surf clinic had a consultation (as did all the schools) before the by laws came in. I put forward my concerns for safety, my business and lahinch business in general.
then wrote to all councillors and Co co employees working on laws.

All my suggestions were ignored in by laws so did not make an offical objection (error on my part) as they now can use this to their advantage. Dont play their game very well.

As far as i am aware all surf schools paid their parking fees, we also paid a fee for a licence to work on the beach. And i personally said i was willing to pay some sort of rate. so money was not the issue.

There is not a united front from the surf schools as new location is an obvious adventage to some schools so why would they object.

when asked the origanal reasoning behind the laws, i was there were complaints about surfers in the swim zone and surfers taking up space on the prom while waxing boards etc "the prom was an obstacle course" "an accident waiting to happen". We asked to see these complaint under freedom of information act, but there are no written complaints what so ever.

my problem is this is a surfer issue not a surf school issue. Surf schools do not allow people in to the swim zone. That said they have no control over rentals and take the point the rentals should be controled more and should not just be given out to anyone.

the swim zone is only there for two months and often the red flag is up so no swim zone. Therefore the council is making a year round policy for less than a two month period.

also moving the schools has not changed the issues one bit only reduce the safety on the beach.
There have been two major incidents in the last two weeks. A surf instructor who just happened to be passing assisted a lifegaurd wtih a casulity in a serious situation. ended up on life support and safe saved by the two boys, so if that happen next week when there are no life gaurds only surf instructors.

On high tide big swell last we three guys with new gear obvious novices walked down the first slipway in lahinch and all three were immediately thrown up on the rocks and had to be rescued by lifegaurds. i am 100% if we had been in our usual place we would have had a word and no one would have been put in danger.

so what happens come winter time when real swell starts kicking in. There are a lot of beginners /improvers out there who have little or no knowledge of the sea or are armed with the wrong information. just look at the beginner section here to see the miss information out there. without a few good eyes (surf instructors) on the sea in Lahinch there will definitely be serious accidents this winter. which could be avoided.

Council have decided to limit surf schools you must consider when will they decide to limit surfers in general. will they decide when and where you can surf. theseby laws have been a swing at surfing in general as they cant manage surfers they take it out on surf schools.

there are issues, prom and beach could be looked after better. there are a lot of people in a small space when there is sun and surf. surfers do take up a lot of space and need to be aware of other water users. Lots of people rent who shouldnt, and should be on surf lessons, but if people dont precieve surf lessons to be benifical then they just rent even if they know nothing about the water. the prom is busy, boards are left lying around, there are no decent showers/toilets/parking in summer.

Shoud we work together , YES however if council members still believe lahinch is a Golf town , and council workers still believe "Lahinch is a bathing beach" how can we. Please forward your opinions thanks ben

kingcharles82

ben bennett wrote: »

thanks for all the comment etc. let me get a few clear facts out there.

Lahinch surf experience but in the only submission.
I acting for bens surf clinic had a consultation (as did all the schools) before the by laws came in. I put forward my concerns for safety, my business and lahinch business in general.
then wrote to all councillors and Co co employees working on laws.

All my suggestions were ignored in by laws so did not make an offical objection (error on my part) as they now can use this to their advantage. Dont play their game very well.

As far as i am aware all surf schools paid their parking fees, we also paid a fee for a licence to work on the beach. And i personally said i was willing to pay some sort of rate. so money was not the issue.

There is not a united front from the surf schools as new location is an obvious adventage to some schools so why would they object.

when asked the origanal reasoning behind the laws, i was there were complaints about surfers in the swim zone and surfers taking up space on the prom while waxing boards etc "the prom was an obstacle course" "an accident waiting to happen". We asked to see these complaint under freedom of information act, but there are no written complaints what so ever.

my problem is this is a surfer issue not a surf school issue. Surf schools do not allow people in to the swim zone. That said they have no control over rentals and take the point the rentals should be controled more and should not just be given out to anyone.

the swim zone is only there for two months and often the red flag is up so no swim zone. Therefore the council is making a year round policy for less than a two month period.

also moving the schools has not changed the issues one bit only reduce the safety on the beach.
There have been two major incidents in the last two weeks. A surf instructor who just happened to be passing assisted a lifegaurd wtih a casulity in a serious situation. ended up on life support and safe saved by the two boys, so if that happen next week when there are no life gaurds only surf instructors.

On high tide big swell last we three guys with new gear obvious novices walked down the first slipway in lahinch and all three were immediately thrown up on the rocks and had to be rescued by lifegaurds. i am 100% if we had been in our usual place we would have had a word and no one would have been put in danger.

so what happens come winter time when real swell starts kicking in. There are a lot of beginners /improvers out there who have little or no knowledge of the sea or are armed with the wrong information. just look at the beginner section here to see the miss information out there. without a few good eyes (surf instructors) on the sea in Lahinch there will definitely be serious accidents this winter. which could be avoided.

Council have decided to limit surf schools you must consider when will they decide to limit surfers in general. will they decide when and where you can surf. theseby laws have been a swing at surfing in general as they cant manage surfers they take it out on surf schools.

there are issues, prom and beach could be looked after better. there are a lot of people in a small space when there is sun and surf. surfers do take up a lot of space and need to be aware of other water users. Lots of people rent who shouldnt, and should be on surf lessons, but if people dont precieve surf lessons to be benifical then they just rent even if they know nothing about the water. the prom is busy, boards are left lying around, there are no decent showers/toilets/parking in summer.

Shoud we work together , YES however if council members still believe lahinch is a Golf town , and council workers still believe "Lahinch is a bathing beach" how can we. Please forward your opinions thanks ben

Well done Ben,well said!! I believe a serious accident will happen over the coming months and it could easily be avoided, let's be realistic 90 per cent of lahinch surfers are beginners and without proper supervision over the winter months anything could happen,

Lahinch would be a very different place if it wasn't for its hardworking surf schools, the Clare county council should look after the facilitys out in lahinch before they go making drastic changes like moving the surf schools,

Ben and other surf school workers out there in lahinch,ye are all doing a fantastic job and ye are the reason lahinch has such a fantastic tourist trade in these difficult!! Keep up the hard and honest work,ye have plenty of support!!!

rodento

Ben someone should try and find out if anyone complained directly to the county councillors as apposed to the council, not sure if this can be done

spaceHopper

Ben get the surf instructor who helped pull the guy out of the water to contact the http://www.mcib.ie/ and ask them to investigate the incident and issue as a matter of urgency. Getting a solicitor to write the letter might carry more weight.

Also get a solicitor to write to Clare CC asking for them to conscider over turning the bye-law pointing out your valid saftey concers and list any incidents. That will put them on notice that if anybody dies in lahinch they could be accontable. It sucks to have to fork out for a Solicitor but it's effecting your buisness.

This has nothing to do with complaints - it's pay back for objections to doolin peir.

No good names left

Re comments above - As far as I know, the MCIB's remit is incidents relating to shipping vessels, but no harm in giving it a go I suppose.

If complaints came into the Council members and they raised it with Council Officers, then there would be a record of this that should have come to light with any FOI request.

Would it be worth arranging for a survey of the various businesses around the main car park to confirm whether their business has suffered in any way since the surf schools were moved?

I fully concur with all of Ben's points, well put. I'd also add about the benefit a presence in the car park during quieter months, which would discourage casual vandalism or thefts from vehicles.

Suggestion for compromise - could surf schools be permitted to park in main car park outside of the main life-guarded season?

Ben have any of the elected Councillors been approached? What was the response?

No good names left

I don't think the Council would be held accountable if there were injuries or deaths to swimmers, as they have no duty of care to provide life guards (whether direct or indirect) outside of the busy swimming periods. This point could only really be pushed politically/emotionally, but not legally.

hardCopy

I don't live in Clare, I don't even surf regularly.

I stayed in Doolin for a week in February, our trip included a morning of surfing in Lahinch, there were lots of surfers on the beach but there was bugger all else going on, this was school mid-term week.

It seems totally mad to make life difficult for surfers when they bring money into the town all year round.

rodento

No good names left wrote: »

I don't think the Council would be held accountable if there were injuries or deaths to swimmers, as they have no duty of care to provide life guards (whether direct or indirect) outside of the busy swimming periods. This point could only really be pushed politically/emotionally, but not legally.

From my memory the council voted against a proposal to limit the number of surf schools in lahinch, push to hard and they may revisit this

Also as a person who lives on the seafront I would guess you guys have no idea how annoying it is to families, elderly & people with disabilities when footpaths are block by recreational equipment, the problem in lahinch could well be a valid one

No good names left

"Also as a person who lives on the seafront I would guess you guys have no idea how annoying it is to families, elderly & people with disabilities when footpaths are block by recreational equipment, the problem in lahinch could well be a valid one"

No offence, but that's a very presumptive and condescending comment.

Sleepy

Rather than getting together petitions, has anyone approached a local councillor to discuss the matter?

Generally the best way to get anything done within Irish politics is to play by their rules so a sympathetic councillor could be your best bet. Lahinch is synonymous with surfing in Ireland and surfers must bring millions to the locale every year, it doesn't take Michael O' Leary to realise that helping the schools helps the town.

Most councils in Ireland are teetering on the verge of bankruptcy so they may not be in a position to invest in facilities. Were the various schools, surf shops and other local businesses who do well out of surfing (e.g. hostels, bars etc.) to come together and offer to put up some, or all, of the investment necessary to expand the carpark and put in some showers etc. you might find them very quick to come on board: there's few things an Irish politician loves more than the opportunity to cut a ribbon and take credit for something that'll make the papers.

lizgal

spaceHopper wrote: »

Ben get the surf instructor who helped pull the guy out of the water to contact the http://www.mcib.ie/ and ask them to investigate the incident and issue as a matter of urgency. Getting a solicitor to write the letter might carry more weight.

Also get a solicitor to write to Clare CC asking for them to conscider over turning the bye-law pointing out your valid saftey concers and list any incidents. That will put them on notice that if anybody dies in lahinch they could be accontable. It sucks to have to fork out for a Solicitor but it's effecting your buisness.

This has nothing to do with complaints - it's pay back for objections to doolin peir.

what ever happened bout doolin pier?

bagus

ben bennett wrote: »

Shoud we work together , YES however if council members still believe lahinch is a Golf town , and council workers still believe "Lahinch is a bathing beach" how can we. Please forward your opinions thanks ben

Lahinch is still a Golf town, and it is still a bathing beach.

The council have a problem with the boards lying around etc... How do you propose they fix it? (It can't be policed, there is no money for that.)

I don't have any issue with the schools being re-located.
The schools should just accept it, and teach groms some etiquette about fitting in, rather than taking over the car park and footpaths. etc...

spaceHopper

bagus wrote: »

Lahinch is still a Golf town, and it is still a bathing beach.

The council have a problem with the boards lying around etc... How do you propose they fix it? (It can't be policed, there is no money for that.)

I don't have any issue with the schools being re-located.
The schools should just accept it, and teach groms some etiquette about fitting in, rather than taking over the car park and footpaths. etc...

OK so Jonny gets a lesson for school say in Sligo. He's bought a board and is walking down the prom in Lahich to go surfing, say 2 hours before high tide. If one of surf schools see him then cheances are they will gently tell him he's left it to late as by the time he's getting out the beach will be covered and he'll be on the rocks - not a great place for a beginner. That's what was happening till now it's prevented people needing help from the life guards.

The whole thing stinks - Clare CC wanted to build a pier at Doolin that would make a mess of Crab Island which is a world class wave. The WCSC and ISA objected - this is pay back. There have been no problems with board left of prom, I've always seen surfer put their boards down carefully and mind them, remember most boards don't take kindly to over excied kids jumping on them.

Mickeroo

bagus wrote: »

Lahinch is still a Golf town, and it is still a bathing beach.

The council have a problem with the boards lying around etc... How do you propose they fix it? (It can't be policed, there is no money for that.)

I don't have any issue with the schools being re-located.
The schools should just accept it, and teach groms some etiquette about fitting in, rather than taking over the car park and footpaths. etc...

The surf schools keep their boards in their vans as far as I've seen. Any boards lying around are put there by people who brought their own/rented them.

OldGuysRule

Clare Co Co's vengeful and short sighted actions towards surfing in Clare is not only limited to this farce, they have also put double yellow lines at another surf spot and put mounding along the road blocking the car parking used for the cliffs.

The poor relationship between CCC and surfing is a direct result of their blinkered attitude, having been very involved with many of the issues previously discussed here and elsewhere, there have been so many requests sent formally and informally to meet with everyone from local engineers, the county manager, senior engineers, councilors etc but almost every time they have been ignored. The ISA and WCSC have repeatedly stated their support for the Doolin project and have always offered to meet and discuss the designs / specifications to come to agreeable solutions that will not damage the world class wave environment.

Having surfed all over the world and with a keen interest on the social environment aspect of surfing, I have never come across a local authority to turn its back on surfing as much as Clare. It is incredible that they take / make so much money from it through parking at Lahinch, Spanish Point etc, through the thousands of visitors and tourists who come into the county supporting direct and indirect businesses throughout the year and eve the rates of all the surfing related business. Yet they have have NEVER engaged with any surfing groups, be they commercial, voluntary, representative or otherwise, nor have the significantly identified surfing as being valuable to the county.

Sleepy

Might it be an idea to get one or two local business owners that are involved in the surfing industry in Clare to run for council in 2014?

rodento

Lads I think your been OTT.

When large groups of people park along side roads in remote places they can easily create traffic hazards for other road users. I'd check to see if there had been complaints first before I'd get on my high horse

Also people forget that the council opposed daft bye laws that wuld have limited the number of surf schools on beachs, so they can't be described as anti surfers

killedsirius

rodento wrote: »

Lads I think your been OTT.

When large groups of people park along side roads in remote places they can easily create traffic hazards for other road users. I'd check to see if there had been complaints first before I'd get on my high horse

Also people forget that the council opposed daft bye laws that wuld have limited the number of surf schools on beachs, so they can't be described as anti surfers

They aren't parked along roads in a remote area, they are parked in a designated car park for the beach.

Most of the 'i support the council' arguments apply for a maximum of 5 weeks of the year. From October on that car park is a ghost town except for surfers and surf schools

hardCopy

rodento wrote: »

Lads I think your been OTT.

When large groups of people park along side roads in remote places they can easily create traffic hazards for other road users. I'd check to see if there had been complaints first before I'd get on my high horse

Also people forget that the council opposed daft bye laws that wuld have limited the number of surf schools on beachs, so they can't be described as anti surfers

You must not have been to Lahinch before. It's quite a large car park and is not by any means remote.

rodento

OldGuysRule wrote: »

Clare Co Co's vengeful and short sighted actions towards surfing in Clare is not only limited to this farce, they have also put double yellow lines at another surf spot and put mounding along the road blocking the car parking used for the cliffs.

killedsirius wrote: »

They aren't parked along roads in a remote area, they are parked in a designated car park for the beach.

hardCopy wrote: »

You must not have been to Lahinch before. It's quite a large car park and is not by any means remote.

Nuff said:rolleyes:

Lads take your surfing focused hat off for a second, try to focus on why the changes at the other spots and if there was a reason for it. Parking at remote area's can create problems

lizgal

rodento wrote: »

Nuff said:rolleyes:

Lads take your surfing focused hat off for a second, try to focus on why the changes at the other spots and if there was a reason for it. Parking at remote area's can create problems

if that were the real reason for all this, the co council would have done someting about the constant road hazards at fanore/ballyvaugan roads caused by tourists just throwin their cars there and goin off walking. far more careless than any surfers

OldGuysRule

Rodent,

Of the two areas I am referring to;
CCC responded that the double yellow lines in one place were put there as it is an access for a launch site for Doolin Rescue boat, however, the Doolin Guys never looked for it, nor is there an access spot down that lane, it is a 5 or 6 foot drop off onto a rocky shore! I agree that there were issues with the guy who lives at the end of the road, but access to his illegally operated garage was not been impacted
The mounding at the Cliffs (not even the main road, but the side road) was not the request of the local landowners nor is there any evidence of complaints - this was checked.

The big issue is that, on each of the occassions where surfing interests have been impacted by CCC, including those above, they have not been willing to engage on a meaningful basis. Not just with ISA or WCSC, but with anyone; individuals, businesses, representative groups etc

listermint

rodento wrote: »

Nuff said:rolleyes:

Lads take your surfing focused hat off for a second, try to focus on why the changes at the other spots and if there was a reason for it. Parking at remote area's can create problems

You comments clearly have nothing to do with lahinch. Im sorry but your completely clueless on what you are talking about. And ive only touristed in the area for non surfing reasons.

rodento

OldGuysRule wrote: »

Clare Co Co's vengeful and short sighted actions towards surfing in Clare is not only limited to this farce, they have also put double yellow lines at another surf spot and put mounding along the road blocking the car parking used for the cliffs

Does this article cover all those parking locations

http://www.clarechampion.ie/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=9926:council-to-counter-illegal-cliffs-parking&catid=74:general&Itemid=60

CLARE County Council has agreed to implement parking restrictions close to the Cliffs of Moher to counter “blatant illegal parking” after a number of complaints by people living and farming in the area and local representatives.
At a recent meeting of Ennistymon Area Councillors, Councillor Bill Slattery requested the senior executive engineer “put double yellow lines and no parking signs on both sides of the road where blatant illegal parking is taking place on a daily basis at Ballysteen Cross on the Doolin side of the Cliffs of Moher”.
Ennistymon area senior executive engineer Stephen Lahiffe told the meeting Clare County Council had received “numerous complaints” from councillors and residents in relation to this location and had ordered signs to deal with the matter.
“Following the submission of a number of letters from local residents with serious worries about public safety, Clare County Council in association with the Ennistymon gardaí agreed proposals for traffic restrictions at Bartra and Caherbarnagh/Luogh South. We then went through the official procedure and confirmation was received this month from An Garda Síochána that the proposals are satisfactory. Signs have been purchased and will be erected shortly,” he outlined.
Mr Lahiffe confirmed that there were issues with emergency vehicular access at Barta and that this was particularly problematic for the Doolin Coast Guard who had come to the council about parking in the area last year. He added that parking on the road at Caherbarnagh had caused problems with access for emergency vehicles and people farming in the area. Mr Lahiffe also stated that the council planned to move “pretty quickly at both locations”.

OldGuysRule

Those are the locations and as noted above, there is no vehicular access to the shore at Bartra, if you have been there, you would see that it is impossible to launch a boat, this was acknowledged by the Doolin lads when contacted. As for the Balysteen cross, this was discussed with the locals at a recent meeting re Doolin and the issue had not been raised by them. There is one central figure in all this, the councilor. Try talking to him and see what his view on surfing, surfers and the benefit they bring to the county and it all becomes a little clearer.

rodento

Oldguyrules all i'm saying is that there could well have been legitimate complaints about surfers parking on that road.

Access to/from the property may have been blocked because of the surfers as the road is very narrow at the property entrance and that could easily have lead to complaints

And as for the coastguard, they may well required access to the coastline to us eas a look out and not to gain access to a boat

OldGuysRule

Maybe so, but then why not meet to discuss these things, discuss the complaints and try and seek non-heavy handed solutions? The WCSC has repeatedly sought to meet with CCC on these and other surfing related issues, but to no avail really.

rodento

Sorry forgot about the cliffs

At a recent meeting of Ennistymon Area Councillors, Councillor Bill Slattery requested the senior executive engineer “put double yellow lines and no parking signs on both sides of the road where blatant illegal parking is taking place on a daily basis at Ballysteen Cross on the Doolin side of the Cliffs of Moher

Anyone wonder why the council would they put down mounding to stop surfers surfing a break that doesn't work all that often, my guess is that the place is also popular with hikers who don't want to park at the center and the place gets rammed on good weekends

I just don't think its helpful when people come out with crap like this is pay back for doolin or clare county council vengeful and short sighted actions etc... putting this **** out on public forums will only ever make things worse cause some people will believe it and at the end of the day surfers will have to get along with others in the local communities.

If people have problems with what is happening in their area they have the find local councillors who are willing to fight their corner, its how local politics works.

Getting back to the ban from lahinch car park you really have to ask how this came about, could it have been because surfers blocked the footpath with the boards every day.

The council put an idea to deal with the issue of schools out to public consultation, you can't blame them if the surf club(not sure about this) or most of the surf schools didn't make any submissions or engaging with councillors on the issue

OldGuysRule

Back to the ban, if you or the council examined what has been happening there over the past number of years, there are regularly boards strewn on the prom, but look again. They are, in the vast majority of cases, belonging to individuals or they are rentals left around while people get changed. The schools either leave their boards on the sand between lessons or they are returned back into the vans. Moving the schools is not going to remove the basis for the 'complaints' which is boards being left lying around in people's way.

In fact the situation is now much more serious as previously the various schools used 4 main pedestrian access points to the beach, now with the relocation, they are pretty much forced to all use one, the most northerly one. Incidentally, this is also the last available access from the beach as the tide is rising, creating a serious pinch point for access.


There are other downsides to the relocation including the much mentioned effective removal of 15 to 20 beach life saving qualified from the previous vantage point on the upper prom.




As an aside Rodent, I have been involved with many direct interactions with CCC an with councilors over the past number of years, the level of ignorance (and I mean that in the 'close minded, uninformed' sense) we have encountered is staggering.

Amongst the nonsense statements we have come across from councilors, County Manager and senior engineers are;

• Surfing is a fad that only came when we had few quid and will be gone away soon
• No one ever surfed in Clare before the last decade
• Less that 10 or 15 people surf Doolin / Crab over a month, and only during September and October
• People do not travel to Ireland for surf
• Surfing brings nothing to Lahinch outside of July and August
• Surfing makes no real difference to Clare
• Surfers are not a stakeholder group when dealing with foreshore issues or other coastal development issues
• If surfers are so into the environment, then why do we all drive to the beach
• The WCSC was set up to object to Doolin and only has three members

Don't for a minute think that we have not tried to engage with all the local (and Clare wide) councillors in recent years, and not in an antagonistic manner. We have sought to sit down and explain the surfers point of view but to no avail. Surfing is seen as a minority, fringe activity. If we keep hitting against a brick wall, what can we do.

Sleepy

Have ye tried a petition of the local business people that benefit from surfing? It's easy collect a few hundred names on-line, would the councillors pay more heed to a letter signed by a large number of their Rates payers?

promethius

i've not surfed lahinch in a couple of years but sounds like it's got busier since then. i'm not comenting on lahinch here now but leaving boards thrown on the prom anywhere is the height of ignorance and i suppose the council had to deal with it in some way. doesn't sound like the best way to do this has been implemented however.

one thing that might help would be to round up all the schools and interested local surfers, find out when the next county council meeting is on and arrive wetsuited up and with a board in hand and stage a friendly and peaceful protest as the suits go in. tie in with a local photographer/paper and get the pictures in local and possibly national press. an interesting image like that would spread and help raise awareness and embarass the council into having to engage with ye.

this won't get sorted on boards :-)
time for ye to mobilise

spaceHopper

promethius wrote: »

i've not surfed lahinch in a couple of years but sounds like it's got busier since then. i'm not comenting on lahinch here now but leaving boards thrown on the prom anywhere is the height of ignorance and i suppose the council had to deal with it in some way. doesn't sound like the best way to do this has been implemented however.

one thing that might help would be to round up all the schools and interested local surfers, find out when the next county council meeting is on and arrive wetsuited up and with a board in hand and stage a friendly and peaceful protest as the suits go in. tie in with a local photographer/paper and get the pictures in local and possibly national press. an interesting image like that would spread and help raise awareness and embarass the council into having to engage with ye.

this won't get sorted on boards :-)
time for ye to mobilise

Or Hawaiian shirts